From body language on video calls to dodging f*ckboys during COVID, these are the things we need to think about right now. We're talking in this week's bonus episode about navigating through it all as we air an interview we did with Nikki Novo on the Final Swipe. We discuss how to balance horniness with staying safe, all the cultural shifts happening during this time, and keys to staying #dateable through it all.
Follow Nikki at @nikkinovo, check out her book and podcast 'The Final Swipe: Heal your heart, find your person, and end the dating search for good' on all podcast players (for the podcast) and on Amazon (for the book): https://amzn.to/32TXfaZ
Thank you to our partners for this episode:
This episode is brought to you by Kensington’s newest title from Marina Adair, HOPELESS ROMANTIC. You can find HOPELESS ROMANTIC wherever books are sold. Find out more at kensingtonbooks.com
BONUS: Are you Dateable? w/ Nikki Novo from The Final Swipe
00:00:01 - 00:05:06
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of dateable. Show all about modern dating where we dig into the whys of people's behavior including your own. We are still in our offseason slash bonus episode phase which also means her ramping up for season. Twelve which is coming right up one more week. What were we more yacht. We're almost there but it doesn't mean that this episode is not media. This is also a very media episode. We're bringing back nikki. Novo we were on her podcast the final swipe and we just had a lovely conversation with her so we decided to reuse that episode for this bonus episode. Yeah we love to re share. Some of the podcast. We've been on 'cause there. It's a good opportunity to listen to other people but also hear from yours truly us and i feel like this one was interesting till i agree. Listen to also because we do talk about a lot of trends and demanding in a lot of them are things that were going on. Pre pandemic We talk about how we started as a san francisco based podcast now have kind of gone everywhere because we're almost like dating in the future but it was interesting. Obviously i won't give away all of the trends because that's what the episode is for those interesting to really listen to it like months later dow that were still in like essentially quarantine like in california. We have now just reopened. Who would have ever known. It would be so great to be in the purple tier where it's literally like hair salons and outdoor restaurant basic mentally. Yeah exactly but it's a luxury but it's been interesting to like re listen and i mean i think a lot of it has stayed the same but then there's also i've been noticing from my own situations but also from friends that i feel like you know. I think we thought at the beginning that there was more of is like. I want to say like coveted. I kiss that was happening. Because people didn't want to risk their safety because of covid and they wanted to like if you kissed it almost essentially meant that you were entering a relationship. And i feel like what i've been hearing lot is like that isn't the case anymore and i think it's like byproduct of the fact that we've been quarantined for now like almost a year and i'm not saying it's right in any way like i think it's actually kinda fucked up to be honest but i think it's really fascinating that people are just like kind of like hitting their wits and with like without physical contact potentially for like a year so people are gonna fuck it up. You know. that's just going to happen when you get so lonely. So needing a faction a kind of throws everything else out the window and you're like you know what if i really want kiss someone i'm gonna kiss someone. It does put people in danger and it does worry me a little bit. So i'm i'm really hoping that people will think twice before they engage in physical activity with each other but it also means that people can say whatever they want just to get a low low. Something totally i think like for me. I'm definitely going to make a role for myself. That i don't like kiss anyone until we've had at least a couple of socially distance states because i think there is this like emotional like false intimacy that happens with video in phone dates that you feel like you're on like a third day in you're not and i think personally like i'm like like i would feel fucked over. Essentially if i like kiss someone they disappear. I know it's like money to say that. Because i used to just like make out with everyone dates but like it's kind of like what you have sacks so that you don't hear for again because you're like they're now putting you in physical danger even worse potentially so i don't know i think there's just like a feeling of like feeling like you're like someone's like quarantine buster like feeling like used a little that i just don't want for myself personally and also you don't know who they're kissing right gene freely kissing you. Yeah pro out there. Just the kissing bandit as they call it another thing. That's interesting i've heard is like people more and more people inviting people over for the first date to their home and like i had a friend recently that she's like should i do it. Should i not do it it's like down horrid. I wouldn't do it but like i can't tell you what today like i wouldn't and i think actually someone posted this in our group too and it's kind of like you've to look at like. Would you do this. Behavior like before. Quarantine in covert. I would never go to a random stranger from the internet home. But she ended up doing it. She did best to be like his dame photo address. Sean tax-raising basically she's like if i'm not if i don't text you die tomorrow like send up search party for me.
00:05:06 - 00:10:03
Oh my god. I'm like less worried about that and more worried about the germs This other person's bring into your home. Like i think the of getting covid or higher than the chances of being a serial killer right. I think there's a there's more health implications. It's kind of insane. Because i don't even invite friends over no but i also do have friends who have the same rules like they don't have friends over but they will have a random stranger over for a one night. Stand it's contradictory. It is but then at the same time. It's like i get it like we can't put our dating live on holds complete leagues. It's already been a year like like. I know there's a vaccine insight but like it might not be another six months and i think if we all knew like the vaccine was surely coming bartsch. Maybe that would change the behavior but i think people have lost trust a little in these timelines a bit so i see it from the other perspective but also like we've come this far like don't wanna sacrifice health either for like a kiss. That means nothing you know right. That's what i'm saying like. Is it going to be worth it in the end right. You have to think about that the next day of like was this worth. It's tough with data because it's like if this person ends up being the love your life than yeah probably worth it if they ended up disappearing the next week than it wasn't but sometimes you just don't know that until like you're far enough in and like i guess like in theory even if you made like let's say you had like three or four. Socially distanced dates in. Like you were getting to that point like in theory. Someone could find out something in make them not want to pursue it. That could always happen. But i think i would at least feel better that like we gave it a shot opposed to like a one time. Meet in the never see each other again. That's just my personal justification. Yeah and i think people can always say they're safe and you can ask them these questions but when you look at their behavior it doesn't always line up you don't see anybody. I don't hang out anybody. But i did go out drinking with a few friends last night. And you're like so you do see people they could. I know it's it's like a really weird thing. 'cause i i do have some friends who are very very safe. I mean i guess like with me. They're very very safe. But they're getting to a point where you know they're like oh i went to this virtual thing and then met someone and decide to take it off line so we decided to meet up at my house because it's so cold outside like but you don't even have me over. You have some random stranger over there. Like yeah but it was like you know we had a connection. Oh yeah i know. It's it's a weird. I feel i agree. I think everyone kind of has their could video theories for them that you'll justified them. And i'm not talking down because i'm sure i've been like two dates like yeah. I don't really see anyone that i like. See you or see someone else It's just not. And i admit that like last night author. Are you a under the bustle at all. We tried to celebrate. Us we try to celebrate us birthday. I ended up meeting up with. Just louise not too cold for you and i love. I really don't love birthday celebrations. I like never doing me for my birthday. And the only times i do is because people ask to do it and to is like i don't know in san francisco was like fifty degrees but to me is like thirty degrees because i'm a fucking wimp and the thought of dining outside with like huddling around one heat lamp just. I couldn't even fathom enjoying myself. I told her. I told you i went for a walk with my dog and i almost cried because it's so cold. I'm just so not used to it anymore anyways tangent but we totally were fine. It was dot. Actually that cold out. But i also recognize from the east coast. I have a very thick skin when it comes to cold. I used to live in an apartment building. I'd be the only one swimming like in january. So i get it. I liked definitely a little weird with that stuff. But i like i was thinking about it though. I'm like right just like told by these dates. Not see anyone. But i'm like sitting here with louise like you know eating and stop. Obviously it's like a false sense of like obviously trust louise but like when you really think about that like it's not that i'm not seeing anyone i am seeing someone it's not like it's not like louise is the only one i've staked. I saw other friends like the other. And it's like it's that's the part though it's like so hard though it's like what's the line of balancing your mental health in like having some social contact versus like being totally safe like. It's just such a hard line to balance. Yeah i just feel like right now we're operating alike scooters like on the on the road you know when it's convenient to act like a pedestrian and we're like oh it's a red light but i'm on a scooter but we didn't but then you get you know but then you're like no but i'm also can also be on the road because i'm also automobile. I don't know that's where. I think people are like like you said it's a convenient way of explaining And i get i totally.
00:10:03 - 00:15:05
I totally understand. I don't think we're trying to like manned. Anybody we got all you gotta do. What's best for you but also think about the consequences like for me. I'm constantly thinking about my parents. I do see them on a regular basis. So i don't wanna put them at risk unfolding with vaccine then. I'm going turn out just totally. I've made a rule for myself like the indoor spaces with friends and really trying to abide by that. But i do recognize. If i do meet someone i hit it off with like. That probably will be the next step. So it's like. I describe myself as being safe. 'cause i am always wearing. I am always like doing that. But then it's like what is your definition of savers. it's like if i looked like by by bombs definition of safe. She'd probably think. I was like engaging in super risky behaviors. Because i'm going out to eat and doing stuff you know. So it's like outdoors. But that's also my loophole. Mike because i'm outdoors. it's fine. yeah but then that you know you do wanna take it to the next level. You can't stay outdoors forever and had no not comfortable to make outdoors. We also talk about other craziness this week. Like did you get your game. Stop shares is could we use. Read it for dateable. Like colby like a million subscribers like today just by going to read it the power of read. It just makes me feel old. I'm like no but i also was thinking. I just put down a down payment for a condo. And i was like if i put that money and game. Stop over. I'd be rich bitch so funny i don't know about you but i've lived in san francisco for eleven years now but i feel like i've had like multiple lives within san francisco evenly memorial. I met you like. I had different friends that i would like. Hang out with ed. It's funny how you like suppressed memories that something like little triggers. But like i used to have this like male best friend. That was totally blows tonic. But we would hang out all the time and he had this old roommate that would like cover out at haig out sometimes and he worked at game. Stop like you would like go up to girls like lead with the fact that he worked at game stop. We were always a cool thing. Yeah like we're always just like what the fuck like. Why like you don't like this is even pre. Like maybe dow he led with. He worked at game stop. He'd actually get a reaction but it's sort of ironic. Because a few months ago. I bought gift cards from game. Stop because they also saw like uber eats and door dash. I've really felt like they were a failing business. And i was joking joking with my boyfriend i was like you know if game stop doesn't go out of business. We should try to buy it because maybe there's something there you know like. I feel like they're still in business for a reason album. Like i should have acted on dammit. Dammit iris thinking though is just funny. 'cause like i i like haven't thought about this like this game. Stop guy in all the stop. And like i'm like i don't even remember his debut ripper like him games leading with the fat of game. Stop but i just. I was thinking about it and i'm like damn like i feel like single girls are always told to get a gay best friend. I feel like actually having a straight best friend that you're not attracted to in any way was my best source of meeting men back in the day. Yeah well you know how i feel about this. It only works Until one person wants to fuck like i get both of us didn't like it was like a very mutual thing. Like i mean i ended up like funky friends but not him like it. Yeah i mean it only works out until it doesn't work out right like you guys do not hang out anymore. Yeah but it's not because of a sexual. It's because of his friends. It's not of like exactly all in indirectly something related to sag shrew true. It does come around but it didn't work out for a long time but the best the best is when you meet someone that's like a loose connection to them is. I had one of those situations like it was like we went to a birthday party. And then there is this guy there that he didn't know personally. It was like. I would have gone to that birthday party without this contact. Those are the best one so was this reciprocal like was he able to fuck your friends. He tried oh okay. You got zero out of you know he. He definitely actually. That's not true. He did sleep with water. France okay great friends and it wasn't through guy won. It actually was the rebate Outside of it. But anyways. I feel like i don't know if it's like a by product of people relying born apps or getting older. Maybe it's both. But i feel like back the day like i just bet so. Many more people like through mutual friend group. Thirst friends right. 'cause you hang out of their house and you're like oh all it takes us facetime. I keep right. It's like if you just keep seeing the same person over and over again you become attracted and that like romance can build out totally.
00:15:05 - 00:20:01
It's harder over fucking like apps you're just looking at few pictures of them and you have to make a decision right there. So it's it's hard young. That's really hard to do. But i did learn a few tips so i've been reading up about body language because i know a lot of people are like. How do i show interest over. Zoom dates gauge their interest. So i learn a few things about how you can instantly get people to like you. Ooh i like this. Apparently if you raise your eyebrows quickly we're both doing it. Shows interests and it shows approachability. So you can do this over video or if you're just like walking outside and you see someone you like all jewish. Raise your eyebrows. Just a little bit. But i feel like when i just did it i looked like a creeper like limi- like we don't hold it hard trying to like one. I don't look like you're constantly by surprise it's just is it up down. It's down says very quick. And all so if you tilt your head as you speak it shows it's supposed to make you more attractive as a more attractive angle anna shows vulnerability so the other mercer's more willing to open up to you when you speak over video straight on. It shows dominance and aggression so in traditional like. Tilt your head a little bit. You know we love puppies when they do that when people do that. It shows a little bit of vulnerability and it puts you in a more attractive angle will thank you for sharing. I feel like. I have absolutely the worst app. Picking up subtle cues or showy myself like. It's one of those things. I've just never been able to grasp by tire life. Like i remember like by acts was like you. Were giving me all these signs. And i'm like what i was doing that attached if i was it was really. I don't have that much. Gabe so like yeah. I think it's interesting the eyebrows. I don't think i would've ever noticed the tilt head head. I'm gonna start going like this. Is your shoulder here. You don't wanna look like you're stuck in position stuck in his head with her eyebrows. Probably this looks like we have this video date now. Thanks chris where they feel. Sorry for you are you are you are you. You just heard. This is how i had tried. Another tip is hide yourself view in zooming easily. Do that hover over your radio. Click on three dots. Hide self view. So you're not looking at yourself and you're focusing on the other person and in turn you mirror them and you see of they mir your your body movements so we had a question about this on youtube. Page where someone was like. I learned by mirroring if she doesn't text me back for three hours. I'm gonna mirror the same and not texture back for three hours and we're like no no. That's not when miri needs immunes to mirror each other's body movements and language so if if someone's got their hand on their face and then you do the same. It shows that you're actively listening so just a few things because i've been researching ways to make my zoom calls more entertaining. Oh this is a great way to do it when you turn. You actually have a much more engaging conversation because you notice a lot more about the other person said of looking at your background. I love that. let's practice on. Our work calls practice. The head chill eyebrow raise is that we're gonna call eyebrow raise sound so seductive but if you've had too much bro talks you probably can't do it so it just Just do the head tilt whatever in your range of motion. I was telling you. I've noticed an interesting phenomenon of people looking better on video than in real life. That is that's crazier. It's funny. Because i was like realistic to this episode nikki dove. Oh and i was talking about like how i was hesitant to do. Video is i actually feel like. I don't look as good on video As afraid like that would be my first impression. But it's actually kinda fun in ironic that i've noticed. Ap the reverse like. I just didn't think that's possible at that time. But you brought up a good point lake some celebrities. Look a lot better on camera than they do in real life so it's totally possible. Some people just have face for camera because the camera picks up like the different features and makes him look more symmetrical but then in person their features are to pronounce like anne. Hathaway a really good example. I've heard in person. You're just like whoa.
00:20:01 - 00:25:00
Her face is just like so striking that you're like doesn't even look real doesn't look that attractive but on camera. She's just she has a very symmetrical looking face so yes. I can see how video can do that. So could be misleading. Sometimes yet mark. Wahlberg another example. I saw i was excited. Meet him but i pat. I've ever had a friend that like worked at like some entertainment company and he was like invited us to an after party of one mark. Wahlberg movies he was like getting up the back entrance to st cousin and then mark wahlberg was literally leaving to like exit. This party because he probably would it be there anymore so just like passed over each other like amazon staircase. There is mark wahlberg and he did not look like he was out way shorter at personally. Joe yeah. They always look the same as his onscreen presence at all. It was kind of appointing. Why is it that. When i think of mark wahlberg i think of baston is he from. He's like it'd be botts burgers Burger chain that. He started his burger. Chanaa oh shit. I was in boston that i saw him. I keep saying that. I did not meet him. I passed him by he. So hot on cameras dotted real-life like someone just eight were. Yeah or you're like. I don't need to obsess over this person because they're not like this in real life but on camera in in tv and films. He's beautiful super hot. Yeah i know so anyways be. Maybe people don't need to be to related by video we'll give it a spin and take away could use you raise tips and then also know that maybe this person that you think is beautiful on video the average person when you meet a real life an average joe believe that well. Let's get to this episode with nikki. Novo she's such great interviewer and we had such a great conversation with her We do want to promote a another fabulous book before we bring you nikki novo. This one's called hopeless romantic by marina dare set against the breezy backdrop of coastal rhode island bestselling author of marina dares. Latest novel asked whether to a small towns. Biggest hearts can learn to put themselves. I in the name of love i feel like i need some like dramatic music for in the name of love. Clean-air this they have to the biggest hearts in this town as a caregiver for her autistic brother beckett. Hayes knows how meaningful a little extra help can be when life happens so she opened up. A store called considerate. Don's personal concierge. Service in her small town and then in the same town is levi roads so after his father's debt he's running the family marina embar while putting his dreams of sailing on hold until back shows up his bar Marina dare is a number one nationally bestselling author with over a million books sold. You can find out more. At kensington books dot com or wherever books are sold while i feel like you should be like a personal. Pr rep for that. But i feel like i should. I want to get it now. Usually sold it so damn wow of intriguing. What's going on of the most selfless people like their schema must be selflessness and subjugation or whatever like i feel like they need to find their true love with each always comes back to ski bus. Doesn't it what do we say seems a different scheme of same shit. Yup that's what you're is now available the burst store. No i'm not even kidding. It is from our sponsor ourselves or store cast dot com slash up. Actually just while. We're doing a quick tangent We are currently running contest in our facebook group four. A crowd sources was a great idea that jasmine had one of our member. She said like. Can we do this contest. Where we like crowd source ideas for merge in the winner we decided will essentially everyone gets to vote in the winner will get a free piece of merged with their designs slogan. So they've been rolling in so if you're in the face worker if you're not in the facebook group yet joined love. In the time of corona you can put your Crowd sourced idea. And then maybe you'll get much out of it or it at a minimum. Whoever attributes ideas gets a discount code. So you can always buy the birch. I really admire how julie can can insert messaging in between our sponsor message inc. That is really brilliant by the way this just like a second. I love whatever. Thought i just want to tell you this. We have emerged store and then we have like a facebook group. And then dateable. I guess that slot like we.
00:25:00 - 00:30:10
We have sponsor well the love. It yes before we go to drop watt more. Because i felt like we are gonna talk about another podcast that we love to but one of the other things that we do wanna keep pushing is the most dateable contest. It is happening in what four week. Three weeks the eighteenth. After valentine's day we have six contestants already locked and loaded there ready to compete hundreds of submissions hundreds of submissions. Vida enlist of a panel of judges to go through all the submissions. It was a busy. We're about to announce our judges as well as the contestants. So you have to be in a facebook group to see those announcements will announce him one by one. You know to to keep a little bit of mystery there but we have a really great lineup of and judges. The judges were the were we pulled from past Guess the judge's panel is odd fire. I love the people we ended up. Pay tate scabby so good again february. Eighteenth you can get your tickets. Now go to dateable podcast dot com slash events. Ed the of course. Saudi board peppers the event tears. Get that for free. So if you're if you been on the verge of signing up you're like the sounding board thing sounds really freaking cool but not sure you know. Now's the time see get to go to the most dateable contests or if you set it up for the friends level. The bottom one. They'll be a discount code for you to so basically we're gonna take care of sounding board members but if you're not a sounding board members wanna like dive. You're like to- in her go. Yeah that's right. That's though for a dive. If you wanna stick that show just record delirious of you stick that chouan see what's going on with the dateable. After shows a good way to buy a one off ticket so fuck. I'm so sorry to this podcast that we're about to promote because i do have one quick announcement. It's really announcement. Because there's just remind me so julian i had a really great interview this week with ap television that's associate associated press and a little of it. This is the best. This is the best so we're talking about video days exactly. We're just talking about how some people don't translate on video when they When you see them in person. And julius like look at our sounding group when we do these happy ours you really. Don't you really don't see people from the waist up here. She meant to say from the waist down. The interviewer was fun. Group signed me up such a variety of lab. Such for was so funny. And then we. We're like okay. Let's let's try that again. i move on. I just can't even see bursting out laughing. I just can't even say it would only guests the body because you know anyone head. Gosh i just hope people wear pants. That's that's okay. Now we can move on to this podcast. We love promoting other great s. You said there's another one that we love to promote this week. It's called first cup of coffee podcasts. So award winning and bestselling author of fantasy and romance. Jeffey kennedy shares her first cup of coffee of the day with listeners. Giving a daily insight into the realities of being a career author in a lot of you have told us that you want to exercise your creative side and you've been thinking about writing so this is a great podcast for you. It's a daily podcast She chats about writing and reading over her first cup of coffee of the day and she shares her daily challenges. And a look into what it's like to be a professional writer so first cup of coffee as of the frolic podcast network. Which is what we're part of to. You can find more outstanding. Podcast just like this one. By subscribing to frolic dot media slash podcasts. Awesome one other quick. Shout out before we go ahead. I just thought of it made my heartfelt so much. So i wanted to give its chasing one of our members. Jason loves us so we can say it but he was in colorado on a vacation and he took a photo he put in the snow. He wrote out stay. Dateable took a photo of himself master data. Which is our favorite. Like waiting. Bester in this deck those edible very wholesome dick competition. The snow wave my deck. Nice i apologize you my mind with their.
00:30:10 - 00:35:04
I mean appreciate it to. I've diag but for anyone that did not see any of the facebook group. We re push on your. He wrote outstay dateable in snow. It was super. it was into nobody else question. This i figgers. You know not that type of thing crying. Crying is too funny but anyways we love what people are thinking about us. We love what they edged things in a tree. A snow whatever their tongue today. You know sand. Let's go to the beach and right. Stay dateable i love it. Peop- those photos coming. Thank you jason. We really appreciate you. I hope you didn't take that. You actually did use your you know your your your your friend down under let us know. We are seriously delirious. Let's get you this episode nikki novo. She's she's fantastic and not nearly as immature as we are hello and welcome to another episode of the final. Swipe so excited to be here with you today. Extra excited because we have to really amazing cool women who are with us to give some laughs guidance a little bit of everything the coming from the dateable podcast introducing to you. You a an julie of the dateable podcast. Which if you don't already subscribe to their podcasts. You should be downloading it. So we'll talk about that more later but welcome ladies. Thanks for being here with me. Thanks for its. Its offend hardy so an we have lots that i wanted to talk to you about lots to cover. But i was hoping if i can start off with how you started the podcast and what made you want to start it. We love telling the story. It's like a key story of like a rom com probably five years ago probably five years ago because we started podcast shortly after. Not and it was a through julia. Had this really great Business where she was connecting people over brunch in real life who had similar interests greatly command random people that you would normally in real life and we met at one of her brunches ironically enough and we became fast friends and we noticed everything we talked about without stating that everything was monitoring eating. I had just moved to san francisco. Juliet in san francisco for most for adult life. We did a lotta compare contrast also just like the craziness of navigating the what the hell is going on. I mean we ask you what is going on and we both have really good stories and the people around us had really good stories. So we thought. Why don't we try a podcast. why not. let's see what happens. And when we first started it was all about just telling dating stories and we knew that there would be endless stories to tell. But i think now that we're in our tents we just wrapped or ten season realized that it's not just the dating stories. It's really taking away from the stories. We'll be can learn from it and getting to the bottom of why people do things they do. Yeah and like some of the one of the reasons why. I actually started the company to meet in real. Life was from my own frustrations on apps like it felt. Like i would be on apps and i would have a ton of dates but not many of them would actually lead anywhere in i was you know went through my own kind of self discovery and challenges with dating and you had a background as a dating coach so she had her own unique experiences. And i think that's why we kinda felt like we needed to do this platform to really hear other people's stories in what we soon realized that everyone had very unique experiences but they also had a lot of the same underlying themes in. We actually kind of started this as a dating in san francisco podcast because we thought it was so unique and so different than we quickly realize like the same issues here were everywhere they just showed up in a little bit of a different way but the underlying changes like technology with gender roles.
00:35:04 - 00:40:04
All of the ships that were happening were universal. To sounds like you guys are running an experiment on your now these crazy. Humans do this paul harvey experiment. Yeah totally. I think some of the most interesting things we've done is we've actually done some like he said she said perspective dates to people. Go out and you. And i have also where we've had our own pass dates on the podcast to share their perceptions of us in mind blowing just to see how different people perceived different things and. I think it's really shown us that you know so much of this is just just having compassion for other people and ever was try to do their best here. Yes i love that. I always think about that. Remind my clients may students that you know at the end of the day like everything that you're feeling years the other person ceiling as well. We're all these humans but we we put. We put each other on pedestals but may have all these ideas that i think that. That's the beautiful perspective. That is offers so i love that. I have not heard the podcast where people are. Your pass states are talking about you interesting all at the same time. I know julie you're dating but you a are you also dating no. I've been in a relationship for almost two years now. Oh wow did you. I was wondering about that. Like did you feel that it might be scary to like change your density. Because they may be. Your identity was wrapped up in being like a person that goes on dates. And like having because of like what you do Or was there any kind of Was hard to make that transition or you felt like okay to be like okay. I'm ready for this. That's really interesting question. So when i lifted new york i had my own dating poker business and it was called miss single fight. I was called. You know. I was like known as asthma single and dating questions you have and reynosa question to me and he was like what happens when you are not single. What are you head so i was kidding I bought the domain. Mary five because i was lucky eventually will become very and we started the podcast. I had the exact same thought as well. We're always going to evolve but our podcast. It's more than just single people. Dating in fact so many of our friends were in relationship. Who are married listened to the podcast too. So i think it's actually really nice. That jillian i can offer perspectives from come with single and someone who was in a relationship but it's all based around human connection. Yeah the other thing too. It's like we've been doing this now for four years. So both of us have actually shifted our relationship status quite a bit in those four years as you would imagine like we happen just static so when i started the We started the podcast. I was in a relationship. You a single in them. We've shifted along the way. There was a period that we were both single. There is a period where revolt dated Or in relationships. It's just like it's it's kind of zig zags throughout. And i think what we've learned to is a lot of this is beyond dating. It's how you navigate long term relationships. Like what the work that you need to do on yourself. I think when we first started this we thought it would always be about two people interacting and what we've learned so much of this assault work that doesn't change it doesn't go away. It doesn't go away because you get no relationship. It doesn't go away because you get married like this is something that's just a continued evolution through the rest of your life. Yeah i always think iras like remind my my students also like when especially dating process like we put so much emphasis on the other person because we like oh bring new human into our experiences for life but it's really like more than ever a time to watch and care for ourselves because that depending on how we feel about ourselves how we are viewing ourselves. All that kind of stuff is like how we're going to relate to that other person so it's like it's an ongoing project for sure absolutely so i also you. I found it funny because so julie. You're you've been in san francisco for a long time and you came from new york great. I lived in beijing for two years before moving to him so it was like new york a beijing and then cisco so i would love so i. I'm basically miami a lot of clients all around the country also at all around the world as well. But i definitely i remember. I think it was probably maybe last year or two years ago. I was getting a huge Of huge group from san francisco.
00:40:04 - 00:45:04
And i happen to visit their because my sister-in-law's from it's from the bay area and when i went there i was like i got. I got to see what's going on here because i've only dated miami updated in l. A. places i've lived. And i was his fat san francisco Fascinating dating market to me a learn One thing that i really noticed at least within my clients remember. I'm not dating there. But i was kind like working through the clients was how Correct me if i'm wrong. It was just this is just my perception but almost guest because the gender roles there are so new neutral. But they almost like. That's the way you guys date is very like fifty fifty that goes on gender owes already different than like even the miami because they're such a strong latin culture we steal dade like a little bit more traditional. There's never a question of who's gonna pay for the meal ingen. It's part of our culture. Were in san francisco on so interesting. That i don't know if it's because of the technology attack it's happening there but the gender roles played a really funny like plays a really funny role in how you how san francisco people date and i was just wondering like maybe you. 'cause you're coming from these other places like did you notice that. Did you find it. Like a different market. Absolutely mouse the basis of why julian. I could not stop talking about dating. 'cause i was just shocked by the dating culture coming from beijing where i lived for two years. Same thing very traditional gender roles. You know exactly what's happening on the day who's calling instigating who's initiating but in san francisco. I remember telling julia some stories where my first ate. This guy brought a business proposal. 'cause he wanted to get my advice on something trying to start and i've also had. I've also held doors open for men who didn't say thank. You seem very resentful towards that. But i think i really. There were two things that i really realized. And i can't wait for julia. Tell her story because she only know san francisco dating in her adult like good with no point of comparison in that for me. There are two things i realized one was. Most people are attracted to san francisco for the city and for the for the career opportunities. So nobody's coming to san francisco thinking. I'm going to get a better love life. I'm coming here for the bustling single 'this and i think when you when you tracks so many people who are high achievers where trying to to really amplify their careers generals guess run out the door because it's all about. Hey let's let's see what my next. Let's network so i can see what my next step in my career and the second thing i really realized is that we first started the podcast. We thought all of these. These issues were very unique to san francisco. Well we found out was basically people emphasis cisco dating dating huger because we'll be really predicted what was happening five. And if you look at if you look at what we experience when we first started the podcast we're starting to see the same. Things trickled down to some of the other cities. Like la new. Your work is seeing things are happening. So i wouldn't say we have a much different. Dating scene is just that were maybe dating a little bit farther ahead. Yeah i was gonna say so very similar. Because i've been here for a little over ten years. I'm hitting my eleventh year so base. I'm originally from the east coast. I have that background but like you mentioned. I've pretty much spent my entire adult dating life since twenty five here and i think there's i mean. San francisco has changed since i first moved here. It's definitely a bit more like tech borough. A in like has like those connotations. Where i think when i first moved here i definitely moved here for work. Don't get me wrong and others to to but there was also this like progressive. You've san francisco. A lot of people moved here because they didn't want the stereotypical life early. And i think that's still holds true today. I think that's why poly-amorous for example is something that's so out in the open here while it exists other places. It's much more closeted in here. It's celebrated as people that are saying. Hey i wanna optimize by love life. I wanna you know. I don't want to be cheated on. I don't wanna cheat. I wanna like do something that is going to make me happy for the long term. I don't wanna be one of those. Like boring sexless marriages not to say that all marriages are but i think that's what people's mentality is i can. I can design. If i can design a tech crop dr. An app icon design the love life. I want at the end. Yeah and i think that mentality is what has a put san francisco in the future as you said.
00:45:05 - 00:50:07
I think that's a good way to say it. It's not that we have it all figured out but a lot of the things that are really coming to the surface surface and other places have already been here for a few years like apps for example. I think that was one of those things like when apps were kind of in different parts of the different other cities or in the country. You've been all over the world. San francisco had been doing that for like three or four years at that point because all apps or created here so it's just an interesting dynamic and i really do think the shift is happening for gender roles all over. I think i agree. It's happening in san francisco. I because one people don't need prescribe to just old values and traditions because of the progressive nature but also like you said people are very alpha career driven no matter what your gender and i think that's going to continue to go everywhere so fascinating. It's just so interesting so for those of us who don't know what the what are these new like the new types of relationships that you guys have been seeing that easy that you're saying are a little bit more common right than over here. And i hear them to like Out again. Miami is a little worse were so traditional. That is not really like in here. Miami but i hear it through my clients and then experienced my clients in those relationships as well but to be interested in that for those of us who are in oklahoma. Yeah i mean. I think like starting be most kind of pc. Common is probably just people that are like. I don't need to necessarily get married and have children. Or i don't need to necessarily settle down right away. I wanted to vote myself. Maybe i want to hook up with a bunch of people like there's that level and then if you go up there there's people that in into polly emery which means like loving many and having relationships with many in open relationships is in a similar camp but different that they have less relationships with others but they will have sexual relations or hook up with others. And i think it's really that the the folks here don't believe in monogamy like they don't believe that that's what is meant for humans. It's the whole concept is ethical non monogamy. So the idea is that. I'm not gonna cheat which i think is half the with cheating is or maybe even more than half. The problem is the deception. it's not necessarily the physical act of sacks so if i can create this relationship or my partner knows that i'm openly having sex with other people or even openly having relationships with other people than i can kind of counter that so there's a lot of that that's happening in within that there's different variations triads where there's three people in a relationship or drew boom of video asa have unicorns where it's like one person dating a couple. So there's some other variations that get even more extreme and and i think beyond all of that because there's so many different configurations. I think everyone has their own idea of what poly-amorous when a relationship this but it is interesting in a cultural shift and the language that people use to describe the people there in relationships with their were getting away from possession ashen and were towards. This is someone. I am connecting with so nimble. You'll hear people talk about their partner all the time it used to be the term used for if you were in a homosexual relationship this is my partner now. Hetero people use it. All kinds of relationships will use partner and then even for like poly-amorous relationships used to be hierarchical so you have the your primary and secondary tertiary and now we're seeing the shift or not higher co polly emery is just you're connecting with multiple people and everyone equal and you can treat everyone as an equal partner so we're really seeing that cultural shift away from possession and i think like one of the bennett like the benefit of all this. I think there's two things. It can be very confusing. I think there's something about the traditional way is that you just have one path. You know what you need to do. You know the steps that are taken you know the progression of a relationship and then with this. It's it's all unknown territory. And i think that's actually one of the reasons what's need modern dating so difficult if you get on an app. Let's say you are someone that wants a more traditional relationship. You don't know if other people want that like it's hard to know what everyone is looking for. But i think the beauty of it is that we're kind of a generation that has a fallout of divorce following that one pass and not being happy life.
00:50:07 - 00:55:02
So i think what the benefit here is again. It's not saying that marriage is not the right path a can be and i think that's one of the benefits to it's not just getting married in prescribing to gender roles or like a way that we had to do it. It's creating the marriage that you want or you're deciding to take another path in create that love life that you want. I mean it's beautiful. And i end. It's fascinating because it's exactly connected to the tech development like you said like just the you know we can design. We can design that. like why. not design this. It's just so fascinate as named watch. I am with you like it. It is confusing for like. I have clients who are in some of those kinds of relationships. And if it's it's it's still it's confusing for them because they're having to rework some of their their programming like it's basically like up. You have to upgrade that programming in order to understand how you really feel about being this relationship because you may look at a girl who's in a relationship with a guy was in an open relationship and you may be. She has no southworth. She thinks she can get etcetera etcetera Which i definitely went for saw. I was wait a second like what's happening. But when i've kind of starting to understand. Is that you actually like. The person has to break down their belief systems in order to really understand how they feel about being these relationships in a lot of them feel good being relationships so but it's the programming that kind of like sets us off there. So and you know it's hard because a lot of convincing to convince other people a a lot of feeling like they need to explain themselves when you take you really. It's very brave very courageous. So interesting Passing that you guys are seeing early. Went on nikki ends. Yes make one quick point. That's what you said triggered something that i thought about Was we had a woman on our show. Talk about navigating open relationships. She's never done open relationships before and she fell in love with only wanted open relationships and on our show and we realize that in addition to the programming agree programming of yourself and your your beliefs. You there's also a lot of trial and error could be because these relationships don't come with a user manual. You don't like how do i. How do i enter an open relationship. Step one rate. You know you just do it. So that's also part of a lot of the curve to it's a trial and error because for some for a lot of these open relationships to there is an another level. Where you oprah step or you do cross the line but you have to figure out where that line is right definitely and i mean it may not even happen just because you're interested. I think in those types of relationships it may not be the one that end up in. It may not be the one that like you stay in furniture because also like it's gonna take time for those relationships to have a manual like you explained an the reason you know the way we do relationships right now is easy because like we've seen people doing it for generations you know i don't know history. He's kind of relationships. But my my for some odd reason. Don't ask why. But i was looking into greece mythology yesterday and i forget what it was. Funny on wikipedia. They had a break down of the different gods and who they had children with and somebody's gods were having children with lake fifty two women basic how this is probably visited for while you know of some point these kind of relationships of you know. Obviously we're getting out of hand or whatever but it's it's it's interesting it's fascinating. I'm not an expert but it's interesting that you guys are seeing it early earlier than than most of us you know what else throw. It's like you said not these so Quote unquote like untraditional relationships. I think even traditional relationships are going to start to not have a user manual. Like even if you're with one partner get married. You have children you go down the traditional whatever passed it. I think what's gonna really shift is. That people are still going to really shift how they have that relationship in. They find something that works for in their partner. Like one of the things that we've noticed is just how important communication as mrs in a revelation like everyone knows this but i think people's willingness to communicate in relationships now versus. Let's say ten years ago is instrumentally different. I think we are in an age of therapy.
00:55:02 - 01:00:05
Being accepted where men are now starting to be okay with their feelings to. I think we've talked to. We didn't episode with ashley madison. The affair site and one of the things that was fascinating. There's we talked to a lot of the people that were having affairs in. A lot of them just did not talk to their spouses like people that they had been married to for years there was just no open communication. No safe space and i think our generation that is something that is a priority and i know for myself like if i can't have an open conversation with someone they can't hear me they can't you're my feelings. Were coming from. How like to work with them to create a relationship than it's not gonna be a relationship with them for me absolutely mlive. I have to listen to that episode. Tell if what number that is what will definitely share that. And i think this is probably just kind of off topic but that on the communication piece. I think a lot of reason why i see. Some women may be taking longer than they expected to form that relationship at whatever year whatever age. They thought they were supposed to form it in a lot of it has to do with. We're we're still training. Like men are still catching up in communication. Non all too. It's like it's the patriots. Been having for a long time and i feel like the work that has been being done our generation. I'm like if you're an early millennial let's say or That you have been training that man so to communicate. I see a lot of that happening. A lot of communication training going on and it's easy to kind of be like just hasn't happened for me but it's also just doing some heavy work. I don't think the next generation is going to have to do that. It's funny my husband is ten years older than my younger brother. So the difference between like how they relate It's it's night and day. You know my husband is not. It's took two different generations and what might My brother has been trained in two is very different than like. What my my. What was expected of my husband when he was dating and young. You know so. He's young poor guy. Ads like what you're saying about. Communication is so true. We are in. I really do feel really gonna places still training And some women as well. We're we're so training our cells. But that's a big reason why i think it's being delayed not delayed but maybe taking a little bit more time than we expected this generation. That's an interesting perspective. I a hundred percent agree with you like the men that are in older generations versus younger. Think about things in very different ways. And i also think it applies to women too like. Ua light at what we call. Elder millennials our allies institution. Yeah me too. Yeah we're like right on the coast of we kind of have these traditional values but we also progressive values in. Then we talk to people that are in their twenties early mid early to mid twenties and they don't even know what the rules are. They have no qualms about approaching man and reaching out. I so i think things are shifting a law in. I think it's an interesting point. You brought up of why it might be taking some people that are in this more Situation longer to find that person is because we want the progressive values but maybe our partners or even ourselves aren't fully there yet. Right perfectly said input. Yes i would love to hear of any trends. You like ghosting has been a trend for a while but any other trends that you see in the dating world you feel like would be worth mentioning Okay well we have kovic. We recently cover this new phenomenon called dumping wages dumping someone over zoom and the something that were staying during quarantine and at first. We thought what a terrible name. Well just dumping and dumping those are just terrible words in general but had a really negative connotation to it but then when we really examined the kind of the intent behind it but the truth of the matter is relationships have to carry on whether when quarantine or not whether coveting is or not and if during a time in quarantine a relationship and it needs to end the best way to do that probably the rules virtual hunting whether through phone call or a video call so it's just another way to phrase keyboard navigating relationships during this time i think another major trend that we've seen is people are really starting to question whether they want a relationship or not.
01:00:05 - 01:05:13
We did an episode The season on relationships you really want one and the point of this whole episode was for so many years you grew up thinking that you wanna relationships because that's what society tells you should do. Even if you re really stood with a relationship was but this is such a great concentrated time right now especially for us to just reflect and think do i want. Do i know what a relationship is in two. Am i ready. And do i want to enter into a relationship so i think coming out of quarantine and coming out of cova it. We're gonna see. A lot of daters who arlington nikki be making decisions. That are more intentional than before. Right we all. I think this has definitely been a time of self awareness for many and i think covert has really ruined fuck boys another trend that we're seeing it was so like set you up taxed or you know hit someone up or hidden someone at a bar but now you're just not gonna be hooking up as readily easily in every we hear men that are serenading people a resume. There's people are really stepping it up so i think it's really a do. There's screw they gotta step it up or get out. Change her ways. This is the reform that we're the that there needed. So that's definitely something that has come up. Is i think people they're bullshit. Meter is a lot higher. Like i think people have the time to really get clear what they're looking for and if that's not on their path like they're not going to risk their lives in do things that once were so you know whatever it happens it happens and now there's a lot of consequences that come with it absolutely it's been at had allowed client. Of course get scared about that. They can't date during this time. It was you know it's it's especially if that six of the year working towards in it was scary to think that like maybe they can't meet people during this time and i was like you kidding me. It's like the best time every everybody is like listen. This is who i am. you know. this is what this is. What's happening like you know it. Just there's just so like you said like less of that kind of that. Bs meter is is high but also we can't hide to so much anymore either so it is that it was a good time. Actually the few students in my membership actually form relationships during this time in are still in those relationships. So angry yeah. Have you seen anything like that. Anybody like connecting earth. Julia have you. Did you do any sort of like on the phone. Dating to encourage the virus. So i have done a couple. Recently i spent primarily coronavirus actually reevaluating a pass relationship of mine with my ex. And i think it was actually a good time for us to do this during covid nineteen to because we a lot of time to air out everything that had gone on and see if we could resolve it but ultimately we decided that it just wasn't the right fit still and i've been experimenting with video dating a bit recently. I've been a little intimidated by knocking. The lie think i kind of got over the hump. This week in i agree. I think there's a lot of benefits of it. Because i mean the one example that i had this week it wasn't a fit but i think i'd rather learn that on video. Call then spend all the time and their time meeting up when it's blatantly not a fit right and i think that's a win also offer obviously giving people a shot but i think if there's sometimes you just know it's not to be a match right and i think like sometimes video to shows that a lot more than photos. I think though there is something. That's like a little intimidating. I know for me. I always think like i've been told to that. I i looked better in real life than even info does not super other genyk. So it's more is my first impression is the only impression i'm gonna get from this person via video where i feel awkward so i think that's a challenge to of naked work in your favor but i think there's ways that you can start to just get more comfortable with that in the reality is we might. We might be doing this for a very long time. If not ever of how this might change dating so it. Maybe it's the time to invest in a ring light in learn how to angle your style because it might be something happening guy best but i think one of our we've heard nick's i'll say that i'll be honest as we've heard from people i think when the pandemic started everyone was super excited about video dating because it was new novel in then it started to like sour because people didn't know when they would ever meet this person.
01:05:13 - 01:10:02
I think at the beginning to was like oslo. Only gonna be for months in just kept going but now with states re-opening gradually and we'll see what happens. But i think more social hogan social distancing or people at least learning how to adapt mass like people are meeting off again. So i think people's appetite is back open because there's there's a pack the end of the tunnel and we have heard of people that have met like we had one pass gas that said she struggled for years Finding a connection because look physical always seemed to get in the way in she met someone through quarantine they ended up like quarantining together for a bit and having like a pretty serious relationship i think ultimately it actually didn't end up working but at the same time this might have gone on for years. Maybe they found out in different. Will i actually i have. I have the same the same situation with a few clients where i have some clients that moved too quickly. You typically like they you know. like me. Exceed sleep like fantasize about being with this person. get really anxious about the speed. And what's happening. What's not happening. And quarantine has been the best thing for them because they had no choice but to get to go slow and get to know somebody so I have one student that could never get past like a date or something end. She's in a full blown relationship right now because she worst to like. Get to know this person over a four-month period until they were able to evade They're in different cities so they they didn't they didn't have the opportunity to to quarantine together but now things are opening they just started being able to see to their in person and like i was from the beginning. I was like this is going to be the best thing for her. Like i just do. Maybe the best thing like hallelujah corentin. Because she had no other choice and there was knowing zayed of like you know. Is this person. Maybe seeing other people like that's not probably that's not happening if that's like one of her concerns or i'm where's this going or like. Is this progressing. Like she didn't have it. She couldn't ask questions. Because this was the speed that it was going in a so deafening the slowing down is good for those of us who are used like our body to get Close to somebody. Sometimes they Missing all the red latics from the gecko and this this. I think has been in the favor of those of us at that. Like our our situation definitely. That was my situation. When i was dating out there. No other distractions. You're not at a bar. You're not thinking about your next drink. You're not thinking we're doing for brunch with your friends this weekend. So it is that focused time with the person that you're that you're talking to. I would also say that we've had a few listeners. Say i can't wait to meet this person. So that i can see of. My feelings are real. We've been talking throughout the entire three months of lockdown. And i can't wait to see. These feelings are carry true when we meet in person. I would also say to anybody in this position. You're currently in a relationship. Even though you haven't met that person in real life you're still interrelationship. Your feelings are invested. You are still putting yourself into someone's live and integrating them into your life so whether this relationship carries out in the real world with the well quote unquote real world. When you meet in person or not. I wouldn't say don't feel the queen at or defeated that if it doesn't work out when you do me because you're still going through a relationship this great practice for another relationship if this one doesn't work out that's a great point. I think the other thing. That's really nice about it is we have to remember that. Modern data was not perfect before covid nineteen. I mean how many times people said like modern dating socks at all the stuff. So i think people have amnesia that they wanted to go back to the way it was be a good opportunity for us to create the dating life that we want and i know for me personally. It got to a point when i was doing a lot of cereal dating. I wouldn't even like ads. Someone's number in my name in my phone. Like i'd put their number in i would. I wouldn't take that next one second step to add their name.
01:10:02 - 01:15:02
Because i thought in my mind there's a pretty good shot. I'll never see this person again. That's a terrible way to go into a date. I think like furby like the best Date i had that actually ended up turning into a relationship. I had a dating app with someone that was really excited to meet like we had really good banter ahead of time. I was genuinely excited to meet him in. I think that mindset shift really. I mean one. We got along well in person at translated from digital to real life but i think the mindset shift of having that excitement to meet up is so essential and i'm hoping that that translates now especially if you've done a few phone calls video dates with someone at least you're eating out the people that are just like wildly wrong for you at that point and you can get excited to actually meet the people that have made it through those steps in real life. It's kind of like when you're interviewing for a job. Chances are they're gonna i video. Like interview overthrowing worth. so why. why would we do this any other way. So right question. Speaking of like mindset. I know that you guys have a really nice facebook group which i love the name love in a time of corona with on ask and i was wondering if you've been seeing kind of mental health or mindset like slipping in current like i've seen a lot sizes wondering if you're seeing that in the group and what's been like your approach or take on that i think the fact that more and more people are joining our facebook group just shows that people really need support right now. Most of our conversations right now are turning in. How are we not. How are you navigating through this. How are you dealing with this. And it's been really wonderful to see people support each other but also just be really vulnerable during this time I think mental. We've all always been such huge fans of just working on mental health and we always say you have to work mental health first before getting into a healthy relationship. But now more than ever i think because people are so alone with their thoughts that any sort of mental hell anything comes up it becomes really amplify during this time and for anybody who's starting to feel best suddenly. You're not alone. I think a lot of people are doing this and the first place. You should go to the finance. Sim and you'd be surprised your support system to be your closest friends or your your relatives or family which are great support for them. But sometimes it's nice to have a group of strangers can give you really objective vice and who can look at your situation without knowing you. It's really nice to have that to do. I think people have been handling the pandemic in various ways and Also black lives matter. That was just a very trying time and it still continues to be. It was just mentally exhausting. And that's amazing. I'm not even speaking as someone. That is a black person in the us right now. I don't even wanna say what that feels like this point so i think there's just a lot going on and we have to just like everyone's trying to do their best right now in that means how people support each other. How you support yourself. And i think just giving yourself some slack to like trying to get better every day and having a growth mindset how you approach everything from like like interracial conversations to also just how you deal with david being whatever it may be. I think you just want to make sure that you're supporting yourself supporting others. And you know just giving incrementally better definitely and you know just being able to spend the time a- with your thoughts even like seeing the scariest thoughts the thoughts of lake. What i'm going to be alone forever. What are what if what if you are going to be alone forever. You know like these like showing up so much during During a time of solitude and being able to to see that like alton like the seeing like the monsters like kinda that exists within us when it comes to dating. I have seen that to be very beneficial in good even though it was. It's it's scary but at least we get to see what's inside of us. That's been like a good thing for that. But definitely like i love the idea of these groups because then you start to see that you're not. You're you think you're alone. You're not alone like they're so it's something that likes all you know. So many of us in the same boat are experiencing so that's beautifully is brought that together during the most perfect time that has been a recurring theme for sure on this podcast.
01:15:02 - 01:18:12
The facebook group is that we are never alone in our situations like we are but we are not definitely and i think that that's that's the beauty. Also of the data podcast like bringing a lot of those like intimate moments to you know to the microphone and being able to be like no z. They're just like us. I remember the will ladies. Thank you so much for being here. I love it if you can share a little bit about like how people can connect with you I know you have the the amazing offering of dating coaches that are on your websites if anybody needs extra support when it comes to eating. That's available the facebook group. And of course the podcast dateable podcast. Which is anywhere. You listen to podcasts. But anything else that you wanna share or any last words. Check us out on. Our website is probably the easiest way. But like you mentioned were available on every major platform for the podcast. So apple podcasts. Spotify and then dateable podcasts. Dot com is where you can find the coaching services. You mentioned in the at dateable podcasts. On social media. Instagram is probably our most active. That's anything for ua that was that was it. Did a good job good job. All right ladies. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Thank you for sharing your insight and thank you for the show. I mean this is just the beginning. There's so much more to you. Offer still much through the show. So i'm so grateful that you came on and we were able to introduce you to the final swipe community. So thanks for being here. Thank you for having us niki. Dateable podcasts as part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcast. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast. Taegu's an any post with a hashtag stable and trust us. We look at all those those then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free. On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast. Stitcher radio and other podcasts. Platforms your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable. Good afternoon would you like to try a free sample of our double fudge brownie mash. Very good i'll just take one more just to be sure. Yep still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico. Saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance macadamia nuts taste you. Take one more sir. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.