BONUS: Are you ready for a Post-COVID Dating Tsunami? w/ Kimmy Seltzer

00:00:01 - 00:05:12

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Welcome to another episode of dateable. A show all about modern dating. Welcome to another bonus episode. We are in the off season. We ramp up for season thirteen. But in the meantime we're still bring you content awesome content as always and we appreciate you listening even during the offseason. I'll i am little hung over in case you didn't notice we've been our before this offer an all your dow record. I'm going to have some mental brain farts just so you know i. I'm so not used to drinking the now. When i drink i forget my limit like i forget when i Just kind of blends together and before you know it among my couch again sleeping well if i if anyone's coming in now we are recording this before fourth july. But this episode will air right after so hope you all had a happy fourth in advanced to our american listeners. But sounds like you kicked off your long weekend early way. What were you up to. Yeah just hang out with some friends and if it started out as like do you want to. Just go out age rink. Get out of the house. And then adrian turned into maybe eight. That's that's the problem. I've definitely countered that recently to like. I was just like at a friend's house and we're like somehow until like wine bottle number three. We're like that was a mistake. Oh my gosh. you don't know you're just talking you're chatting hugs and then you wanna fuel that conversation with a little happy juice as you like. Get it to it. It's like the bovid feels great and then the next day you're like why did i do. That's how i felt this morning. Yeah we're both like opening. That third bottle was completely unnecessary. Completely always do a play back to the moment that you should've said no right shoe bottles for two people is that it's a lot but three bottles is totally unnecessary. Don't know our limits even as we're approaching forty or in our forties. How is that happening. I kept thinking i like. I got this shit down. I right. I do like one sip and then once water. That's what i've been doing but by the end of the night. 'cause i was drinking tequila. I didn't know what was my water. Woes my woes. My actual drink drinking. Whatever was clear liquid in front of me which is probably mostly tequila. I had of those days. When i can think of a few memories that we had that were oh some of those days. The chicken hunt is coming to mind shaking hut. I was just telling someone about that. The other day house san francisco it was you know like san francisco loves to dress up for all our listeners. I will share the story. Briefly that will get into the The bulk of it. But we did this chicken hunch and i forget this week was a chicken run or catch chase. The chicken chase the chicken. The chicken a so much stuff as a chicken which was the whole point of this. A chicken suit that someone had to wear in. They basically went to a bar in the rest of us stayed back. We didn't know what bar they went to so we had to find them. Remember than the. I team that found them. Oh yeah because you had to pay. Everyone put money into the pool in the chicken was like shrinking by themselves and whatever team found them. I like got the remaining money of pool in like during for free off of that. That was that prize. I personally so my memory of this of being. So quintessential san francisco because our friend. Melissa was adamant that she was the chicken. Oh i want some weird can cost you. And she was adamant about drinking alone for a long time before people found her. And i was like only san francisco with them and be like. Hey i to be the one in the chicken costume shrinking alone at a bar. Seventy good moments of this. I've ever ballista like death. Aqui about it. there are other friends. Their trainer saw the chicken in the window are in new. They were doing this. They somehow tipped off. They ended up fighting the chicken. I so there is that piece but what stands out to be. The most was what happened. Post chicken chicken anyway. I just remember. You're like really fucked up like i never seen this up in my life but we all wed so melissa wearing did sued she did not want to get set.

00:05:12 - 00:10:01

The see that it was what five pm like it was. It was pretty early. Maybe it was like earlier and you as friend had a party was people right. He's like we should go to this party. It's going to be really great. Whatever we're like cool we're on board right. No we went to this party. There was no one there except for the couple that was hosting it. It us it was like five of us in the chicken. I come from the chicken hans. In i just remember. She had a spread like this was like a formal dinner party in. We all super fucked up just like chowing down on her food but she was so happy. We were there because no one else showed up. Paint the scene where we interred. Because we're going to some house party where be like beer pong and bread cops okay. We realized we were dirty. Sweaty melissa was extra sweaty later. No no it was like five. Actually yes no. It was like five or six. Yes i remember because the sun was still out and the she opens the door. I if we didn't know who they were. These were friends of friends. Who live in this. Like luxury building in soma in san francisco and the those the i felt like it was like double doors or something. It was the doors open and they live in his immaculate beautiful apartment that had like white furniture. And like you know views for miles. A couple was dressed. all nice. elmore vol- where yes and we show up looking like a homeless people bring chicken with is eating their food. We're like what are we doing here. It was such a seed from a movie but she was super excited to have a really nice. But i also remember as a cherry on top. There was this guy brings back to david to there. Was this guy that i had met on a dating app years ago and it was like one of those things that leg. He totally ghosted. Basically like He like there's a lot that happened that night. Whatever julie you going and where are you not going okay. So basically this like it was that i thought like there is something here like he was like promising the world. Okay okay there. And he like totally ghosted me. This was years ago. Probably like i don't know four my time before your time by far. But then there had been a few instances where i had run into him and there was like a recent one that he was like then trying to get with me and i was like. I'm not into this because you'd ghosted me and we have like rehashed this hoping not that long ago and then the chicken hunt half it like maybe like a month after that or maybe two weeks after it was really sued and ice from boever azra walking to this party. I see him on the street with a pizza box because it was like five pm and eating dinner. I remember just being like julie is that you what the fuck. Oh good time. It's always when you want to run it. You know like whenever you're like. I don't want to run into this person and then you see them like a chicken suit. I mean i. I wasn't in the chicken soup. And i was with the chicken suit so guilty by association. That picture group photo he took at the bar. The final bar came up as a facebook memory for me the other day and i just i couldn't name anybody in the photo like the big of our friends. Were there some okay. Some i could name all the people. I remember their faces and just it was just such a good time. We were fucked up and we had a great time. That's all i remember. I do still have the photo. It's with you than two of our friends. i'm still yes with on my mantle. Now i look at that chicken photo all the time. Well we're hong kong reserved for the best only reserved for the fast breeze. We'll keep sharing all of our memories of us being fucked up but that was definitely like top of the ledge julie. I think it's an interesting segue to this. I've got a segue into this. I'm sure i will observe happened. I feel like i don't know about you. But lately i last weekend especially i went out and it felt like old times again like it was so crowded everywhere.

00:10:01 - 00:15:02

No one's wearing like it's literally feels like it's returned twenty nineteen and it was so jarring to me. I was like i miss going out. I actually really like going to like outdoor bars or restaurants or even when it turned indoor be had to like get a table with your group they went let people just roam around and it was so overwhelming at we in line. We had to wait in line because it's so crowded now yup and it relates to this episode. Because we're talking about. What do we want to preserve from right and data into a post pandemic world and there are certain things in even in my social life that i would like to preserve from the pandemic time again. Not saying that the pandemic was a good time for anyone but it did let at least me take a step back and be like what actually is imported to me. In there some activities i used to do with an. I just don't desire to do anymore. Yeah i felt that last week because it was the first time i went into a restaurant without a mask on and they said fine. Are you sure it's fine. And it am approved. Something to me where i felt like i've created a lot of distance with people just human beings in general during the pandemic that a now i need to lessen that distance a little bit more so i'm what i'm preserving is the one on one quality time i've spent one home during the something i would like to gain back is the openness for new people and and meeting strangers which is a skill that i completely forgotten but with the liquid courage. I think i could get there. But that's something. I really want to work on. Yeah i don't know if. I feel that i know a lot of people feel like that. So you're not in the minority. I think a lot of people are like. How do i regain social skills. I feel like. I haven't seen we've talked about fode affair of dating again. I think that's a big piece of is to get back out there in date the way that you once did. I don't know. I was like watching this video. I think it was just on instagram or not. Know it was just like someone's i don't everything's okay over here. Don't worry but you know how. Like i always thought like. Would we ever get back to a world where people are blowing out candles on linkedin and people were just like doing stuff like there was no saying it just feels like we've all forgotten the last year and just moving right back into life and i don't know it's i don't know if i am fully there yet. I don't feel the social side. I don't feel but i don't feel like i want to be like squished in with like a bunch of random bars or something. Yeah yeah. I don't miss the crowds at all. It's like leaving a relationship and then getting into a same the same religion. You kinda forgot what you learned from that previous relationship. And i think sometimes we just need to check back in with ourselves. That's what i'm learning to do. Is like it's okay to set boundaries and to be uncomfortable in this transitional moment and sometimes i just have to say no to things right and just like let people know. I'm not exactly comfortable with that yet. As i transition i mean never be comfortable with how things were. Yeah i think some of its owl's age for me too. Because i think i was feeling right dinner at five thirty that is pandemic life but i think i don't know i think i was getting over that scene even before the pandemic and i was like out actually after my five thirty pm dinner last week breaking full circle because we were done by eight o'clock because they had to next seating. That restaurant was really amazing. I it was totally worth like the five thirty seating but it was a very cool experience but we went to bars after it went to bars before we went to third in the third. We were like we just want somewhere that we can sit and not be near people in eventually it and it honestly probably somewhere i would have gone post pandemic too because of stage of life but i think it's that it's like going back to maybe some stuff and being like this isn't for me anymore and i'll find something that still works. Yeah i've also been going out with some my single friends who are excited to date again. Benin have him pull the trigger in terms of so they have they voted yes because they wanna be and i think my friend said this the best she said. I just wanna do it right this time so i want to be really intentional about it. Before she reinstalled the apps and start swiping again she had she was like. I need to find a purpose for all of this. I need I need to be dating more mindfully this time.

00:15:02 - 00:20:11

So she has his plan. She's like what inside once. I have a sabotaged. What i'm looking for and be. I can be completely intentional about it. Then i will reinstall the apps and get back into the scene. So i feel like a few of my single friends are in that in that stage and i would be curious to hear from our listeners. If that's where you are to you have fota but you also have plan like you're you're you know you're slowly getting back in into it baby steps but you do have a plan for re entry. I actually think that directly relates to fota. Because i think a lot of times over the pandemic people have done a lot of self work. Some people are doing that currently which sounds like your friend might be in that stage. But i think there's other people that have taken that time been single during the pandemic and really digging deep on what they want in sometimes dating when i've experienced this dating when you're like i know exactly what i'm looking for. Is almost the scariest because your expectations are so high. There's almost like no room for failure because you've done all this work yourself. Yeah and i think it's like this perfectionist attitude and i totally get that because i think i've totally been there but maybe it's cutting yourself a break to understanding that self work is just done in a short period of time it's kind of indefinite in. There may be times that let's say you're like let someone like ghost me again. You can't control other people. It's just how you react to it. Even if you've done all the self work you still are going to get ghosted like there's nothing that's controlling that it's how you react to it and how you move on from it and find someone that won't do that for you. So it's understandable to be scared to reenter if you feel like kind of all the pressures on maybe till it us. What you've done but i think also give yourself some grace that even if you've learned all this stuff like life just happens and it's again how you deal with it. Yeah that's a very good point. Sometimes we can be so in our head that all you're doing is thinking and if you're not doing you can't see results from just thinking so it you have to find that balance but also listen to yourself like what. Where am i check in and feel it out. Sometimes your body tells you way more information than your brain can little meaning thought you guys have little brains but like endearing your little brain short for explaining that a lot of your like what the fuck your big ass brain okay. There you go there you go that is related to a question that we got from a listener and julie. This'll be a surprise for you to know you didn't know there was a question is as we come back into in real life dating. Do you still see the value with dates as a filter or a first pseudo date absolutely a hundred percent. I think that's something that should be preserved from the pandemic being excited to meet someone and it doesn't necessarily have to be video. It could be phone. It could be at are now. I mean texting can go either way sometimes by texting you can feel i think. Phone video are definitely better indicators. But whatever way you want to feel like you're at least a little connected to this person. I think one of the biggest savage self sabotage techniques that we used to have is when we would go. It'd be like oh it's just a date. There's a zillion other s. You're almost like setting yourself up to not care the outcome. And i personally don't know but you i would rather go on two dates. That felt promising. Then like twenty that i didn't give a shit about and i was just going through the motions and i think people can feel when you're like going through the motions versus back to like what you were saying about intention -ality i don't think that video data is going to stay as a way to really get to know someone because i think i mean we go into it in this episode i think some of the downside video is like false pretenses expectations building but the benefits of video is a way to see like is there at least a baseline attraction. Is there at least a baseline conversation that we can have in also put a name a voice to the name or face to the name depending on what you're doing. yeah. I've really see the value in video day. It's because i think during the pandemic. I hope that we all learned what a privilege it is to be out and about at a restaurant at a bar to to just be somewhere outside of your home and i hope we can preserve that feeling so we should be saving these times. We go out for someone that like. We really want to spend that time with and with the way we use a day with like you said julie we just take these moments for granted so people go to the coffee shops and they go to bars and they have like day after day.

00:20:11 - 00:25:22

Then you forget is a privilege to be out. So i think the video day will really help people filter for you to get into that in real life date and to have that that kind of excitement something that learned recently because in my day job. I've been hiring doing a lot of hiring. And i learned this from the video like the zoom calls that we have as a first Interview was my mentor. She said how did that conversation. Feel energetically That was the question. And i had to really think about. What does that mean like energetically. How does it i. I've interviewed lots of people. That i think are great but there was something off and i couldn't pinpoint what it was. I think it's energy. I think you can gauge energy on video dates if your energies are compatible or not so. It's a great filter i agree. I don't think you're gonna get to know the whole person. Even attraction doesn't really build over video but energy. You can definitely gauge he. I don't think you need to walk away from video being like i the one that that's probably not realistic. I think it's i personally if i was still debating i would do phone screen because i i felt like energy through. Yeah totally i think. Just like hearing. Someone's voice how do they react to things you're saying. I think that would be really good. But yeah i don't know it's a tough. I don't think it's a necessity. I don't think it hurts either. There's value or value to video video dates or phone phone screens. Just call that. I will see. The irony is the only person i did not go out. A video or fudd screen is by car boyfriend. That's true that's true. So why is that. I think it was because i just got vaccinated and there was less of that like screening for that going on. And i think i was like i just wanna like go out and we did text enough that i felt like. We had a lot in common like not necessarily hobbies but like upbringing and values in like lifestyle. I felt like there was a lot of that enough that you can teach through taxed I don't know. I don't know what like compelled me to do that necessarily but at i also don't know if we had done phone or video if i would have got in the feeling i got in person with him. I don't know i'm a little mixed on it. I do think it's it's a good screen. But i don't think it's the be all end all either like i think you need to remember that it's just a screen. If you're still feeling like there's like what are we say. Like the eighty twenty rule eighty percent at least like okay. This could be someone i would like. It still is worth the trip in my opinion to like meet them. But if you're like there's nothing here that could save you a lot of time. I think ultimately the question for yourself is how do i get myself. Not in the pattern of day after day after. Yeah that's it. Yeah so whatever tools you used to get yourself off the hamster wheel dating use that tool and video dates as the screener could be a tool for that off the hamster wheel. I think that is something that we all want to take into post spent life. That is definitely be because up quite a lot in our facebook group of people that have done the work they want to date with intention analogy to find the right relationship. Not just any relationship and you can find a like minded people like that in our community love in the time of corona dateable. Podcast you can find us there. We are a strong connected and very engaged group of people who are going through similar scenarios in our love lives and who are seeking out just a place to talk a place to share and a place to also give each other some support right. That's all we really need these days. So if you haven't joined that community you should definitely check it out. We also have the sounding board. Which is the next level right if you want to speak to even a more curated group of people who are like minded who are doing the work and going through the j. word journey. Ah this is the place to be where we have a monthly events and we have topics. And we have these challenges for you to really rethink your way of dating. And your way of of relationship. I just find this group so amazing because they're constantly growing day after day. And i personally think it's very motivating for myself to see you just working on themselves all the time and you know we're video chats are going to prevail is in the sound for it because we do video chat discussion groups and happy hours and i think a big benefit is that people in the pandemic were able to connect with people all over the country and the world like people globally in the sounding board in the facebook group but in the soundboard you can actually chat inform more deep relationships and i think that has been a huge benefit of this time that we were able to get outside of our bubbles little.

00:25:22 - 00:30:04

I feel it personally. It's been super nice to connect with people all over. I think honestly the the fact that we were able to have this virtual group. It allowed you a and i to meet our listeners. Before it was just a number we had no idea who is listening and sometimes an email here. They are given a whole identity to all of our listeners and they've become friends to us and it's it's amazing and i think that is like unquantifiable benefit of being the saudi board absolutely and our listeners who are in the sounding board and in the community as well are meeting up in real life so if you are interested in meeting other listeners get in the groups either one and we've seen meet ups all over the line and they're still happening. We have a group coming to san francisco in september. I mean if you wanna if you really wanna be people in real life people who are like it on the same wavelength joining this group. You'll find them. That is a good plug another good plug in for. Our episode. is kimmy seltzer. She's been a long standing friend of dateable. F o d. That aren't active bod. She's she's a fod. She's up there with logan yuri that we've had her multiple times and she actually did One of our dateable live after show events. That's part of the sounding board but we were super excited to do this amazon. Live with her. Which is what this episode is going to be replaying in. That's where we dove into what was good about dating the pandemic. What was not so good and then where do we go from here. And i think it's especially relatable and it was such a great conversation. We always love hockey with kimmy. But there are so many good tidbits in there that we need to repurpose this as an episode. Absolutely kimmy who. I love her so she is full of personality and also just full of knowledge. She has been dating coach and image consultant for years and her clients are very diverse. They run the gamut so she's shares a lot of her own personal wisdom and observations win therapist and therapists keep forgetting. She's like the trifecta she does it all and heard nuggets of knowledge and information and data is just like she keeps dropping those knowledge bombs plus. We have a really good dynamic. The three. she's so fun. She assumed verified Before we get into kimmy. Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by better help. It is no surprise julian. I are huge fans of therapy especially online therapy and better help can do exactly just that they match you with your own licensed therapist and connect you in a safe and private online environment. I was able to start communicating with my therapist and less than forty eight hours. Superfast better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches and it's more affordable than traditional offline. Counseling they're licensed professionals specialize in everything from stress management Anxiety trauma dating and grief. We adaptable wish for all of you to live a happier more wholesome life and we think therapy end prioritizing. Your mental help accomplish that so as our listeners. You'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash. Dateable join over. One million people have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help. H. e. l. p. dot com slash dat ab l. e. Okay let's get into our discussion. With kimmy seltzer aft. Oh my gosh. Hi julie and hi. It's good to see you. So i have in the house two very special women that i've gotten to know over the past year. They have this amazing amazing podcast. That i was honored to be on. I think that's how we first connected as called dateable. You must check it out. It is amazing. Amazing amazing these women are just. They're they're trending. Like if i were to say if there's a dating trend happening right now i would say you ladies are it. I'm just saying like your podcast. Is it so anyway. Hi can you hear me. I case for having us. We're so excited to be here. I got so excited to have you. Oh and you definitely like fresh end up. You look yes. I literally just worked out when we did our soundcheck and i was like i cannot go.

00:30:04 - 00:35:03

Live a good for the state. What's so funny to me. I thought you looked amazing. And gorgeous. And i thought you were like already so when you were like. Oh oh this old thing i gotta go. It's like i you know you're both gorgeous so anyway Yeah because i feel like i just went into my facebook group and i said the same thing that you just said because i feel like i just about to go on a date and i am so anyway. Yeah why don't you introduce yourselves and your podcast until a little bit about who you are. Also well i'll go i. I guess i'm you a one of the co hosts of the dateable podcast and we've been podcasting for five years. Which started with two friends. Just wind talk about. Dating and dating stories has turned into some deep deep stuff in our twelve season. Five years later and solo. Back story juliet. I met through mutual friend. When i first moved to san francisco and julie had been dating in san francisco for both of our adult life and i was extremely new so we had a lot of notes to compare and share yes. Well i'm like kind of ivan top that but i'm julie the other co host of dateable and like you a mention. We started off around like defeating stories. We expanded just so much more. And i think at this point. We're really trying to get to like the root of like why we all do the things we do. And what's happening in and culture feel like with kovic. It was like another whole shift. Updating culture like we already thought things were crazy with mater dating. That just took a whole deterred. God like such a roller coaster me talk earlier. But i was saying you know i mean i definitely have seen things for the better have been for the worst but actually there's been a lot of good things that have come out of this. Pandemic total are learning how to do more of that slow dating and really getting to know people before they just swipe and meet right and so that is kind of what i was talking about before. I am so interested in hearing some of the things that you are hearing out there because you are up and up on all of it. And then i can share to like maybe some clients experienced the same thing absolutely had like you said there has been some really silver linings through all this but then there's also been undoubtably. It's been harder to date to. There's a lot more you have to vat with someone in terms of like safety and all that that was just never an issue before. So it's been it's had its pros and cons. I think is a good way to say it for copa types. Yeah for sure okay. So what well. Let's go to the for. i'll go negative. I only lose our products and whatnot and if anybody has questions to yeah like water. Yeah kinda the down and dirty. I mean i think i am glad that we're starting negative. Because i think a lot of times we do. I think that's weird. I think a lot of times people do sugar coated and like i am actively dating right now. And there's a lot of loneliness that's happening right now in the pandemic so i think we do need to kind of like honor that that is like a real thing going on and also like i mentioned. Just it is. You're kind of putting yourself at risk every day you go on where that was not a thing before so. I think it's good that we're starting here. Because i think sometimes it doesn't fully touch peoples real feelings of how they felt during this time so true and i think that a lot of times people were sugar coating it to cover up the fact that there is so much loneliness anna pretty and obviously like as a therapist. I know a lot of mental health issues have like exacerbated even during this time which in fact does impact dating so like. I'd love to hear your thoughts on. What are you seeing or hearing about. I think one of the cons with what's happening during cove in finding love is the loneliness is amplified which could turn into behaviors. That may not be reasonable or may not be good for you so we've seen behavior that's a little bit erotic or irrational This new term turbo dating came about where people are having like one week to week. One month relationships go from zero to sixty and those are great it for for people to get themselves out there. Since we're talking about the cons. I think one of the negative downfalls with these turbo relationships is that you're setting yourself up for so much disappointment. So you get your emotions all riled up and then in the end it doesn't work out so there is that kind of that kind of feeling like deflation a little bit of exhaustion that we're seeing now towards the end of covid totally we've heard like people reference this term dating trauma.

00:35:03 - 00:40:04

It's like when all this like built like you just like if you get ghosted once no big deal but when you get ghosted overt over again or a turbo relationship where you thought you met the one in that it ended in and you're like back on the merry go round again. It kinda does eat up people's you know like soul and so i think that is a very real thing and like you said it's great. People are getting into relationships. But i think sometimes it's hard to like manage expectations. Like i've definitely seen this with myself but also all the people in our community is like. Sometimes you'll get really excited about someone virtually that you've met and you realize that you've never actually met this person real life and if you'd asked what years ago like if that would be a real relationship people are considering people. They've met one time to date five when in reality. It's still date one because it's the first time you're actually. It's it's a fine line of like all of yeah all the virtual stuff. It's great because you get excited to meet but it's also can it can just you can meet and then there's a total disconnect. You know what's so funny about that. I was. I'm so embarrassed to say that i had to ask somebody because some someone wrote me. I are ally elitist. Come on myself at the. No i really. But the fact that that's even like a term in real life link of course it's real life but no to your point like now there's almost has to be this by. Yeah like we. We have to manage expectation around me. And even with the way that we're communicating is really now. I don't know. I'm also finding it so intrusive these days because now people are just expecting to hop on zoom so to spy on whereas like no no no. You don't earn that you don't you. Don't earn the fact date ready for you. Zoom and sub so true. Kimmy i think you bring up a really good point with a term iroele because if we kind of dissect where that term came from it implies we we live in two parallel universes we've got this virtual world and we've got this i guess quote unquote real world and what's been happening with online dating and the way we communicate is that we live in a virtual world and then we have to marry that with our real world and that's where the conflicts really arise and during covid i think everyone's been living in a virtual world and we're we're seeing now is bring them virtual relationship into reality. I think there's a hard transition there. And that's the cause of a lot of the negative side effects were saying. Oh my god. Wanda vision did you. Did you get a really is. It really is well like before cova. There was always this thing like it's not real till you met in real life like that was the mentality. We were all in in in kobe. Time it's switched. And i think there definitely was some positives which we'll get to the positives of deeper connection and all that but the negative is there was a stat. Actually that the longer you go to meeting someone the more you make up in. Fill in the blanks in your mind so you go there and you have a like a huge expectation of this person especially if you've been like texting every day you like think you're like this is your soul mate and then you get there and you're both like. Why does this guy had real life. It's like inflated kind news vision that you have of them. Yeah that's interesting probably all been there. We have magin this relationship. We internalize it. We rate a story line around it but in reality we know that people are never the way they you imagine them to be. So it's it's that goes back to that disappointment factor again you have this like almost makes like the reality like before cova the fantasy like you would kind of build that up yourself but now it's actually real because it's happening like virtual worlds but it's not curl knitting with the real world is strange. It is strange. I think you bring up a really good point about like the transition. Because there's this feeling in the air and i don't know if you're feeling it too just with the way that people are talking it's almost like it's like runs down by little break you know and we're like waiting for. I hear all the time waiting for my shot and waiting for my shot van. I'll do this then. I'll do the eh. but but right like what is the new world gonna look like when we peak are you know head out and so how do we prepare for that right. Like what's the ammunition that we need so that when we go out we can slowly get out there and do what we did before but also bring some tools with us that we're leaving behind but i think we that are actually good. You know again. This is like kind of the good stuff to totally. I'm also seeing already on dating profiles their vaccine vaccine card.

00:40:05 - 00:45:10

So that's starting to happen. Like i think like everyone. There's there's a lot of baked in prompts. That like a when i get the vaccine or something but i've actually seen people replaced their profile photos with their vaccine card photo. Oh my god you just like when we go on days like are people talking my. They'll be like we'll have to show each other and maybe like be like okay. Std's yes Yeah right like there's like different things that will have to check out before we even date someone. Kimmy we're just all gonna walk around. Qr codes those of you are codes. It'll pull up all of your medical history including your childhood trauma and your therapy bills episode. I charge you guys. Just just for the record that is not our prediction that is us. Sarka anyone due to our show like these are a bunch of cunanan conspiracy imagine. Yeah no that these are things to think about because do believe that it is going to be a conversation when we first meet people for sure one hundred percent. Yeah what are some other like trends and it doesn't necessarily have to be the bad stuff you can get into the good stuff you guys can meet you. Know for your for your expertise switches. We talked about this image consultant round that your in house. Look your best in person address for date and now there's this whole other category of how to look good on camera to look good for virtual dates and we found that you've got to have a different skill. Set yourself look good on camera versus in real life and sometimes people's looks don't translate in real life you might be able to get a sense of their energy but is still something missing when it comes to video. So i'm i'm basically setting this up for julie because yeah i beat a hundred percent agree on like does not always transfer over. I have definitely gone on. Dates with people looked actually. I didn't think this was possible. Before covid was that people could look better on video. Look at the beginning of covert. I was like oh my god. I'm afraid to do video. Is i don't want that to be my first impression of be on video when i feel awkward but i've actually encountered the opposite and i've heard from a lot of people in our community that goes both ways to so that being said though i will turn this info positive because i think we're at the point to go to pass around. I think the positive though is yes like we talked about the dangers of falling into this. Like virtual relationship that takes weeks and weeks to meet up. And you get all this idea in your head that being said i still think this idea of doing like a pre dates screen whether that's phone or video. I think that's here to stay because personally it saves so much time like the amount of time that we used to spend getting ready for dates and then meeting someone for like an hour. It just like the conversation couldn't even flow at all. I think to it like does get more excited to meet when you actually meet so. I think it's all about striking the balance of having enough screen conversation looking at as a screen. Not like we're in a relationship because we've talked for times on phone and then obviously going down that path of you know talking for virtually right right. I was saying that to before you came on i. I do believe that. That's a good thing and actually people having conversations before they meet the. There's something to be said about even having that connection before you meet and whether it's a phone call or video day now there's value in that so yeah hundred percent like before cove it. I was guilty that sometimes. I wouldn't even save someone's name in my phone because i'm like. Oh there's a pretty good chance. I'll never seen as i said it's like fifty fifty and i must say like since i've been dating in covid which is beginning of this year to be honest was more when it really started to ramp up for me just out of other personal things that were going on and I've haven't had that mentality. I've been like okay. This is a real person a meeting in even if like the date wasn't fireworks. There is still a disconnect from the like initial chemistry. That i thought was there virtually. It still was a good time. There was very few that i'm like. Oh my god. This was painful. Like nails on the chalkboard type of dates that i think a lot of people were going on before so we could at least eliminate those it will reduce that dating trauma and just like make people like you know a little more positive when the are going out day. Yeah wait we have a question that actually back. This is a great question. So she's she's asking kind of what you're talking about. She's curious what is the appropriate amount of times texting back and forth before you speak actually meet so yes.

00:45:10 - 00:50:24

At-bat is you know. I i'll say from my standpoint. I don't know if you have any slight stats or things to talk about that. But i think that like i'm not a black and white kind of get our you know you can do x. amount of times before you can do this. You know situations are different. People's connections are different. People's ages or different so i don't think there's an appropriate amount of time. But here's what i will say is that i've seen and this is the thing when i coach people. I go into their profiles. And i'm looking at their conversations. Often i get cam. I don't know why that guy didn't like ask me out or you know the guys like this this chick. Just drop me like what's going on. And then i look at their conversations is exactly what happens in something. That's really common is that i'll see text exchanges go on and on and on and on like literally for days like there was this one woman who said to me that she had a text exchange. Go on for an entire week. I said you mean to tell me. You've been damning each other for an entire week and you have never talked on the phone. And she's like no. I just he he he won't do it and i said well you're not really like hinting either. And when i looked at their text exchanges they weren't even like talking about anything they were. Just doing this. What i call payroll talking. They were morning at each day. I did this today today. Like there weren't even connecting so it was no wonder that they didn't progress. And so you know bath in answer to your question any time. It goes on too long like that with. There's no sense of like you know at least opportunity to think about getting on the phone. That is way too long. And so here's the thing women will say. Yeah but the guy's not asking well women you can do things to drop the hanky to get the guy to move a little bit forward like you can say things like. Oh my god. I loving this conversation. I wonder what your voice sounds like. Drop that hanky so that the guy says oh yeah like. Let's get on the phone. I wonder what you look like. You know ira you know like that kind of thing and so there are things that women can do and then man. Yes you need to ask the woman to do. These things. Like phone calls zooms like we want to do that. You know and i think a lot of times guys. Just get a little bit shy. So i don't know where you ladies think about that but that's just something that i'm saying that's happening a lot and that's why people aren't meeting is because the text exchanges are on to. This is why we love you me because you are not atypical dating expert. Who's like if you've been texting for two and a half days gotta get on a phone call like you said there are no rules around how to get off texting but two beds question gets a point. Where you're like is going anywhere and i think that's a good barometer for. It's time to move this forward. it's not about. We need to tax three times before we get on the phone when you listen to your gut and it's a it's telling you. I think we need to take this to the next platform. That's when you should move it. I think drama hanky is a great idea. There are some ways that you can do that. Where maybe it's like. Oh i have such a great story from today but too much taxed right. Kinda shows like oh. I'd rather tell you on the phone because they're are just so many voices involved. I'm very animated and there's also nothing wrong with saying you know. I will love to get on a phone call. I actually find that extremely sexy and confident and it shows that you're taking control of the situation and it's twenty twenty one. I think there's nothing wrong with women initiating that next level But will we've heard from. Previous guests is the a general rule of thumb is once you've learned let's sake three substantial things about the other person not like their weather preferences or what they have for dinner. That's you not learn you think but three substantial things. That's a good time to take everything to the next level. Whether that's offline or to a phone call one hundred percent. I was gonna say berry similar. I love that three again. It's ballpark three. it's give or take. It's not exact science. But i think what it does is when someone messages like you immediately like a video call like it's a it's aggressive holly male or female. Yeah it's super aggressive exactly like when that happens to me. I'm like oh my god said this to about one hundred other women like it doesn't make you feel like they're trying to get to know you in any way in then the opposite is what you described when it goes on for days and days so i think what this three ish like ballpark exchange kinda gets you past the small talk that you don't really want on the date anyways. In cova times date could be a phone call. It could be a video call like any progression. I think that's really what we're looking for is a sign of you can even move it from dating app to tax to phone video like there's ways to make that progression and still move slowly but feel like you're moving forward opposed to just staying in dating app for ten days and you're just like oh my god is ever going to go anywhere and the chad has kind of blowing up right now because we have the man talking to mattis rate good conversation because and this is exactly what i was saying.

00:50:25 - 00:55:01

'cause bath was like well. You know these guys. Aren't you know asking me out. I just had these chats go on and on and on but then matthew is saying from his standpoint a man wants the woman to open that door because a lot of men are afraid of rejection. And that's that's the thing. Like i say this all the time. Both men and women have a responsibility approachability in connection. I truly that you know. It's like if the women make it a little bit easier for the man in the men make it a little bit easier for for the women. We'd all be in a really good place but we're at this stalemate right now and we're all like waiting for each other i right and so i mean this is the more like strategy and coaching comes in. And we're talking about. But i love this kinda conversation in that knowing that there's some guidelines and it's so true because there are some guy and i've seen this before guys will just go in like gangbusters before even saying i say what's your number right. It's too much. Lets us and i think honestly. We're going to bring this back to trends. A lot of it is the fallout of metoo. Is that a lot of men. Are you know timid to make those moves because no longer just reject it is rejection too. But it's also like you're coming off as you know at a harasser like someone that's like bugging the woman so i think there is a lot of compassion that we need to have in honestly can just blame cove. It just be like his love to give us so much we might as well have it. Help us our daily lives. Like i'll just ask someone like hey like how. Have you been a purchase. Cova dating would you be down to a phone. Call that easy right right. When in doubt blame kobe. Although i say i don't know yeah i know right. We should. is that in your products on amazon. We should be amazon. Little create women. We'll have you on But here's the thing with the kobe thing. And i don't know about you but i think also people are overusing it right like we're talking extreme people entering conversations with. Hey how's cova treating you. Oh my god knows. I feel like that was like bell line last march for now it's like what yearly early material was. You've been here twenty right exactly like come on but i think actually bring up a good point. I think this is actually like going to like pros and cons of what's happening right now. I think the pro is that a lot of us especially at early stages of covid when you really weren't meeting people. I think like dating did start to open up more like around the summer again depending on your location and covert restrictions at weather at all those factors. But i think at the beginning. A lot of us did a lot of deep self work in. It's like what do i really want. I think that type anyone that got more clarity. Like i feel i can come into leading stronger but then there's also a lot of people that honestly are like grasping 'cause they're just so lonely right now so i think that's kind of like the darker side of it. So what makes it. I guess better is that you could find other people that are in the same boat as you if you've done that work and what makes it a little harder sometimes like someone that wants to hang out all the time it might not be because they really want a relationship it might be because they're lonely or they haven't hooked up a while. There's a lot of that stuff going on to ask. That is a really really good point. I want to do like a commercial break for a second. Because i know that there might be some people in your audience and they're not familiar with this format and i wanna make sure because we're having a really good like chat and conversation here if you're just joining us and you haven't before make sure you click the follow button so that you can interact with us. You can put your questions into the chat and we will hopefully have some answers for you. You are on with sway. Tv live and welcome. This kinney's love hub and we're on with the dateable gals dateable podcast. You a and julie. They're amazing and we're talking about modern dating trends and mistakes. So yeah i mean you bring up a really good point in about like the pros and cons like on both sides. You know how you were talking about. How things were being sped up before so on the flip side on the good side. There's there's this acceleration happening with people in relationships. That's been a beautiful thing. And i don't that so like people and couples who may be met right as the pandemic was hitting or even a little bit before their relationship accelerated hand for really good things in reason they learned how to like navigate. The waters in a really fast way.

00:55:01 - 01:00:07

But i think it's a good sign for them. The fact that they were able to work with each other during the time. I don't know if you guys were hearing that too. Yeah i think. I mean that was going. I was just about to say something that. I think. It's a really positive. Trend is that people are making bold decisions and they're moving forward with their lives even though life hawes for a year people have found the piece in themselves to move forward with something whether it's quitting her job that they hate or getting out of a relationship that's toxic or telling someone that they love them. Which is what. I did in my situation because i have been holding out for so long. I felt like it's now or never and i feel really empowered by Stories because for so long. We were waiting for things to happen to us. So we think it's a domino effect. If i get the job of my dreams if i find the partner of my dreams then my life will be great. But i think people really took control of their lives during this time so they wanted to either strengthen the relationships or get out of the relationships that are no longer doing them any good so i think it goes into a. You're saying kimmy. Some relationships have really skyrocketed and progressed because couples really to work through some issues. I can speak for myself. But there were some rocky periods my relationship at the beginning cova specifically march and april but once we got go through those two months i feel like we are the strongest we've ever been. But we also have some friends who are going through divorces that were starting already before covid but i think cova release. Seal the deal for them. That is interesting and things like. It's it's like things that maybe were a problem that we're just kind of floating in the surface like completely bubbled up right and then it's like things kind of exploded and there's somebody who wrote in the chat and it's true like people are preaching cova differently and important conversation on the way that people navigated the risk in the responsibility health issues social issues. But i think you're really just seeing people at their best and their worst you don't that's really interesting. No one has time for bullshit anymore. I think that's really what the difference is like. I don't know if we can spare on here. But okay. I'll just say f boys boys we all know what we're talking about. Okay app poise. Everyone knows what this is. We always joke that like f boys were cancelled because no one has like. They're still out there trying to hit up women especially like you know during Now that the fact scene is out to there's there's a whole line for them but like women's threshold. I think in that situation should say just women. There are girls out there too. It's both wasting your time clearly. I think that actually is like one of the real piff. And he's like we've both had during this time of like why people are still single if they don't want to be single a lot of it is because it's wasted time on people that really were not going to like meet them for where they are and ultimately like if you want something i think this pandemic to is like kind of meet us like life's too short so it's like figure out like i'm not gonna waste time on people that are wasting time on me essentially almir. I wanna talk about that. That whole thing that you just said the wasting time. I've been hearing this from so many clients there. I don't want to waste time. And even somebody in the chat said that like because the tanks are wasting time in. Here's a paradox. that i am also saying with that. Is that in efforts of wasting time. People are wasting time. They're they're saying. I don't wanna waste time having this conversation but then they're not doing anything in their wasting time not doing anything so life. Do you know what i mean by that. It's a totally good valid point. I can like actually think of an example on dating. that came up for me recently. Is i actually like propose to someone doing a phone call. Because i prefer to do that before a video. Call in the response. And i'll caveat that like every other man is totally met me with this and it has not been a problem but the response on this was like it's twenty twenty one. Everyone's doing video. I don't wanna waste any time and in my response. Like i'm like i get it because i'm like i get that people just don't want to deal with the bullshit like this guy doesn't know me maybe i am going to waste time but then on the other side it's like you have to also give people a little bit of the benefit of the doubt like i think there is know cutting people when it's proven that their waste your time but just to make you're wasting my time because you hypothetically think that could also cut to your point kimmy of shoot you in the foot because then you're like really not hitting your end goal of like meeting that person or whatever. Your goal is exactly on a lot of times. It's defense right like you know could be. I'm scared i'm not trusting so i don't wanna waste time but then you know what if you actually took the time to do something different you know for yourself that maybe you just practice on flirting you know.

01:00:07 - 01:05:11

You don't have admit to anything but just maybe get a handle on a skill that you don't know or you're not comfortable with and that way you're not wasting time and oh by the way as you're doing that you might actually meet somebody. You think again like another thing. I was seeing that people just like black and white it like either. I'm doing this. I'm not doing that kind of thing. And and dating does not and should not be that way. I think the wasting time is definitely not black away. Because i think like if you've like you're in a situation that it's clearly you're not on the same page right. I think there are a lot of people that have been holding onto those types of things because it's covert. I don't wanna be lonely. It's hard to date other people. I think those are the ones that like. It's good to get clarity and see what you ultimately want. If they're not doing it. But i agree with you. It's definitely not one hundred percent black and white. I don't wanna waste time right right. Oh my god. This is such a good conversation. Obviously like it's something that a lot of people are struggling with I know that you've had some people in your community. Ask you some dating questions. I thought it'd be fun to go over some questions. And by the way if you're just joining us and you have any dating questions please like we're all going to be like the dating council has. Is that such a great idea to do this. And i think we could debate a little bit. I mean. I think we're already doing it. But the hard part is the three of us agree on so myself. How much there is some debate. But i'd love to hear maybe start out with some of the questions that your audience has then. If anyone has questions here we can answer live. Perfect young a so. This is a question we hear quite bit and we've tried to answer it in so many ways i would love to see your take on. A cumulus is how early is too early to what you're looking for in a relationship. Is that pre first day on the first day or give three days before you lay it all out there and what i think it will i people ask this with the intention of asking. Are you looking for a committed relationship slash marriage. Are you just looking for something casual mma for some reason in modern dating. It's really hard for us to ask that question. Such hussin okay. I actually. I have a couple of stories to help. Answer that question. Because i'm just the other day. This came up with a client and she texted me her exchange with this guy. She literally just met him and the second taxed he center. What are you looking for in a relationship. How it's the were such a buzzkill and at such a you know huge question like how are you supposed to answer it in here. Here's the reality. is that often. We have an agenda or we think we want something but when we have a beautiful connection with someone that all goes away in his out the window you know like we may think oh. I'm so ready for that relationship. Then you start meeting people you're in you're like actually this is kinda on anything they'll be single for a little bit you know. I just think that it's a better question to ask. Is what is your mission. Right now versus. What do you want a relationship I actually have my clients right out. A mission statement like a business mission But i do dating mission statement. And i have them gain real clarity on what they can do in the next three months to meet what they're looking for in their goals and and i always say by the way it shouldn't be. Oh get a boyfriend or get a girlfriend. It's more about the skills and things they want to work on. And i am telling you when they start focusing on that and not what they're looking for is when they're more present and they actually find someone he gives him as an example. Yeah yeah so. There's a woman that i worked with that she Said you know. Kemi fi me my soulmate. Like that was her first nasa. Okay i will help you however there may be some things we need to do along the way now. She didn't know she didn't have the awareness that really what she needed to do was love herself. She was looking outside of herself for the soulmate. In order to love and what she didn't realize it was reversed. But instead of just saying to love yourself it was more important for her to just list out the things that were difficult for her currently when it came to dating and relating and all that kind of stuff and so she mapped out a plan where she would go on line for like thirty minutes a day and she would just practiced the art of conversation arte flirting in a different way than she was used to. You know she was vetting. These guys like are you my boyfriend. Are you my boyfriend like she was. She was the list lady and because of that. She wasn't meeting anybody. 'cause nobody was good enough by the way because she was scared like she just. She wasn't really present. And so with the flirting i not only taught her how to do that online but also on video dates in person all of that kind of thing and because she was relaxing into it she ended up meeting.

01:05:11 - 01:10:02

She started dating up a storm and meeting guys by the way that she initially would've liked cross down. You know because. I remember in the beginning because i do this. Whole thing called chemistry analysis with people. And she's like. I don't have chemistry on have chemistry and i said while you're you're chemistry like your type isn't working for you. So we need to do something different. And she was getting just turned on by the shiny object. The look and other things. She was looking at the wrong things. Basically so when she started dating somebody who didn't fit her like thai she actually. It was like a surprise for her and she started making more emotional connections with people and because of that she ended up landing. This break guy. And so guess. What by the end of the coaching she found a guy that she considered who could be her soul mate and she was so happy. And she's like kim. I have never been happier in my entire life. And i said wow like. So what are you happy about. She's like well you know it's funny because you told me in the beginning that you going to help me find my soul mate and i thought that that was going to be my happiness but at the end right now even though i got the guy. That's not what i'm happy about. I'm happy about the fact that i loved me and that was that was huge because she. She just didn't know that she didn't love her. And you know so if she were to go in by starting out. What are you looking for in a relationship. Cnn even though she was looking for deriving and so it is much more grounded and actually. I think that's a way managing expectations like julie. You were talking about before like we can manage our expectations by having things that are easy to reach. Marta reach the soul mate. It's hard to reach the relation easy to reach like a conversation online on practicing Some a little conflicted on this one. I agree on some of that. But then i also have a little a bit of a counter opinion on it and i think yeah we get first of all about like trying hard to find different opinion but no i actually do have. What are you reading here. So i used to. I think also from us doing this. Podcast we talk to so many experts in daters and all this and like there's so many imported questions you do need to ask like a partner till like get on the see if you're on the same page and all of that and i think i did take And i've seen this with other people to that. You do ask a lot of those deep hard hitting questions on day. one. And i think it's because of this whole i don't wanna waste time mentality. We're going to bring it full circle right. But i do agree with you. Hear that on the first state. I don't think it's the right time. Because i think it in the best states are kind of like light and fun. And let's see if we even like each other and i think sometimes we're like i want to know everything about their past relationships. I wanna know where this person is. They emotionally available before. I get connected and all that and start developing feelings so i personally think that like the first date is should it just be like. Do i like this person as our san but then subsequent dates i do think you should have conversations. They don't need to be like heavy conversations. Like i actually like like what's your mission like that but more like not just romantic. What would he want in life. Kind of it can be i mean. I don't think it needs to be formal. Like i did. Have someone asked me like what do you. Where do you want your life to be in five years. And i'm like. I have no idea that was like a little overwhelming interviewee. But i think you can bake it into the conversation naturally and i think gives you a pulse of where someone's at if they're like. Hey like you know like work is one hundred percent like by focus right now or like you know party scene or whatever it may be. You're going to at least get glimpses in not to say that you need to like like bail at that point like it still might make sense to keep going depending on the individual gone. It's hard to give blanket advice. You know everyone is different beliefs. You can keep managing your expectations and see where things develop. And i think it will be telling to like if someone does kinda like bring up like an axe like beyond just like what i learned from this relationship if it keeps coming up and i think that could be a sign that they might not be on the same page as you. Yeah and i totally agree that. There's a pacing with it right. And i think we're both in agreement like the first date. You should never ask what you're looking for and tell me about like these esoteric kind of theories that you have. Yeah but no. And i agree with a lot of the stuff you said. What am i knew. I think fundamentally we just don't know how to ask the question. And i think we're asking the wrong question. The question should be. What are you looking because as well. Nobody knows what they're looking. Nobody does right right. And then when you ask a proposal question like that where people end up giving. You is the tenure picture with a twenty year picture.

01:10:02 - 01:15:03

Oh i'm lincoln marriage and kids i think a lot of people say that But are they really looking for that or do. They think that is just the end result of countless relationships. That are going to be in. So i like to ask the question. What are you open to right now. And i learned this from my current relationship. Where when we first met. He was recently divorced and i. I kind of knew that he wasn't going to jump into another relationship even though he didn't explicitly say that but i asked him what are you open to. He said i'm open to love again. And i think that to me was wasn't so much over gonna get married and have kids like next year but it was more that has part with open for them and ultimately will we were just looking for other people who are open to love who are open to a healthy committed relationship. They may not want that right away or are actually looking for that but if their heart is open to it you're on the right path. I love it. I think that's so dead on because it's lake. It's a really good point to that. Like people don't know what they want or they're thinking like in these. You know what society tells you. You're supposed to want what they think. If someone asks you on your first day like they might just tell you what they think that you wanna hear and we actually have this really interesting conversation. We have a very lively group called love in the time of corona so for any one. That's dating. It's definitely a bus to have to get in there. I'll give a little plug for that china but we also have our premium sounding board group which is kind of like the level up from that we do like happy hours and like people really early legit friends for this now. In one of the women in the group was about this kind of this came up and she's like oh. I'd like to ask like on a dating app before i even do a phone call before i do a first date anything. That's like what did you learn from your last relationship or like anno- actually it was. It was deeper than that. Why like what did you do to injure last relationship. Lighten kind of like wanted to see like what they would say about taking some of the blame on themselves in lake senior sock you know like those conversations but then one of the guys in the group he was like if someone said that to me like within like ten minutes of talking i sure as hell wouldn't give them like an actual answer because i don't know them and then i would just feel like they were like interrogating me and i would probably like back out so it was counter and she was like literally light bulbs went off in her head when she heard that she's like yeah. I don't think i ever ask that again. I love like your community. Because what we're doing here we have men and women on here and it's kind kinda like having that conversation with each other and i do believe there are gender differences in the way that we like. Thank when i co hosted. The great love debate. Who i think. He's to ryan with with ryan howie and i used on co host. The live shows as well. And also i flew all over the united states. I heard these stories over and over again. And what's so funny. one time. I asked the audience of mike. How many women go in on the first day and think about if this person at their meeting could be their future husband or boyfriend and almost every woman racer hands for sure right like we think in stories we think in cinderella fairy tales and is this my man right you know and then i asked the same question to the guys. Guess what none of the guys did. I tell you actually something that bite like. Hopefully this won't discourage people but we had our most controversial guest ever like it was a guy that basically he's married now but he was replaying all his single like escapades when he did not want a relationship and he basically just wanted to hook up and he was telling us that he do that. Women really liked to hear like you know that someone was looking for marriage and they were looking for children all the stuff in he would actually proactively ass women what they were looking for so he looked like he was like the ultimate relationship guy so i do think after here that i don't want to discourage people there probably a lot of people out there that really do say that in mean as men but like just because someone says it kind of goes back to it like let's see their actions like it doesn't matter in a way what they say now all of this that we're talking about. I think these questions are rooted in fear if you think about. I think everybody is trying to prevent something from happening. So they're asking these questions to try to prevent something you know you know that maybe happened to them in the pastor whatever that is and the reality is you can't prevent something from happening just by asking a big question right and i think that's where my list lady comes in that i was talking about before is keeps asking all these questions to make sure that this isn't going to happen again back that you're asking it. You're actually making it happen again. Like that's the thing other kind of paradox. And so i think maybe the conclusion as with what everything that we're saying.

01:15:03 - 01:20:04

Is that the more present you are the more you focus on connection and really establishing like with somebody and letting it progress in a way. That's healthy that you get to see evidence of all these things that you're worried about and that's all you can. Do you know along the way because people show up and they show up differently sometimes and you don't really know the real person like that guy that you just talked about but cnn that guy might have his stick as i say you know an and he could go and now he knows what to say the woman but that he might meet a woman that he really is injury did he got married. One of my good friends part. The only the only small caveat. I will make though on this when people are telling you at face value. What they want in. It's not in line with you. If someone's i don't wanna release chip. Or i just wanna like friends with benefits relationship. I think times as women we try to be like. No we can change. Sam and i think yeah. I think that is a mistake. And i think that like yes. It's like hard because it's so much else. Do you want a relationship. You can't believe them but if they tell you they don't want a relationship. Maybe i should believe them like. It's very confusing. But i think like if sometimes if you really did hear what people were saying or you saw the actions like if they said they were looking for a relationship. But they're never the one initiating clinton's ever like ever. Then i think you need to like also be like okay. Is this what i want. They are kind of whether it's verbal or nonverbal. They are telling you what they want. Essentially yeah nobody forces you to be in a relationship right so whatever situation you find yourself in you got yourself there. Nobody tricked you to get there. And i think that's part of what we need to take away from. Modern dating is that we gotta stop playing the victim and when we play the victim we act out of fear. Like what you were saying to me is i. I was a victim in my previous relationship where this person broke my heart so for this next relationship. I gotta be like my defenses up. And i got to ask all the right questions but with dating love every situation is so different so when we play victim mentality we never actually address the core issues that are in ourselves so i think to what you're thinking i wish we could replay that is. We can't prevent anything from happening. I used to be so scared of marriage. And i tell my mom. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce. Why should i even get get married. And she's like you gain to bed every day and you still have to make it right so why get into. Why make your bed if you're to get into bed again. It's the same kind of like you can't. They're just things that you need to do that. Things that happen things you cannot prevent. But you can't do or not do something because of a potential outcomes. We did have a question from somebody. This is from rachel sorry rich. I know you've had this awhile. But what about if after a couple of months of dating a guy says that he has no idea what he wants Let's just see where things go. No god issues or who isn't interested. Alright y'all okay. Where do you ladies. Thank you go. I i heard this is from. I think we let that relief. I i think these are the examples. Were talking about ray of like you know you. It's it's a tough balance. You don't wanna throw it all the cards on date one. You wanted to like develop something organic but you also don't want to be in a relationship that's like a dead end relationship forever. I think truthfully we all know if a relationship is progressing or not even if it's unsaid if you feel like you are the one constantly making all the plans you feel like this person doesn't really wanna see you or like when they are with you. It's lukewarm again. It's hard to dissect relationship. I think deep down we know and like the fact that like even in this comment there was a mention of commitment issues like there could be signs coming out personally. What i would do in. This situation is have a conversation with this person. Like i think it depends like what how long this has been. But if it's been like three months plus and again time is tough because depends like are you seeing each other once every three months. That could be your answer right there. Are you seeing each other like consistently every week a couple times a week late. I think all that does factor in like if they are giving you the actions. But they're saying that. I think i would say why. Why can't like what what is kind of the reasons like i love like What you said earlier like what are you open to right now like that we get a feel of what they're looking for too but i think like we also need to look at the non verbal cues of like the stuff i mention like. We're really like what is this relationship like. I think a lot is. We want to fantasize. This is a relationship but realistically seeing someone so infrequently may not really be that anyways.

01:20:05 - 01:25:02

Yeah i mean we had a listener going through the exact same scenario and she just kept trying to save this relationship. Squeeze a little ounce out of every time even though he kept saying. That's not what i'm looking for. I'm not. I'm not really sure what i'm looking for or i'm not sure what i'm looking for with you and end of the day. The question should be. How does this person make you feel. Obviously rachel this person's making you feel secure. Not making you feel confident or safe are already values that i think. Show negative red flags of the relationship even though he came back tomorrow and said. I'm ready. I'm looking at a relationship. He still makes you feel this uneasiness. So i think it's good to julie's point to communicate this with him even though he's he's like let's just see where this goes. That doesn't sound like it doesn't align with what you're looking for so it's your turn to communicate with him what you're looking for and it can even be soft like i really enjoy. Hang out with you. But i'm looking for someone that you know like is kind of all in with me or someone. I don't feel anxious around. Like i think so many times. We're afraid to say that type of stuff. But ultimately we had a really wise gas connor beaten on our show. That said link. Don't be so scared to like adobe so afraid to scare away the wrong bull and i think ultimately we were talking about earlier like the biggest mistake we make is There's this really great quote that was like you're you don't want too much. You're asking the wrong people for what you want. And i think we need to recognize that searcher. Yeah and i. I love what you both said now. Thinking along the same lines is is really rachel. It's it's kind up to you. What i'm not clear about. I mean we're assuming that. I guess we're assuming that rachel wants more but i'm that's my first question like what do you want. And if you're not clear ritual what you want right like that. That's all that should matter. And then everything else will fall into place and then you get to ask for. What would it is that you want and it really is that simple and i'm i know like it it. It can be more complex when you're in it obviously but it's also looking at just both the responsibilities of each party right like rachel. What are you doing to keep this kind of at that. You know distint in length. Are you allowing certain behaviors and for him to do what. I call intermittent reinforcement to give you justin off. Y'all keep you going on the trail with the worst tour right cramming brad classic break crummy ido. Now these are questions to just kind of. Ask yourself and if that's okay with you. Great than keep collecting crumbs. That's i'm not like saying that facetiously because some people may not be ready for more and rachel like that's where you have to really dig deep into full wait a second. What is it that i want but if you are wanting more new are wanting something that's more connected and heading towards a relationship with the sky it's exactly what you ladies just sad like but you get to call the shots and how you do it is you do set boundaries. Awesome awesome Ladies i love this. While i have some products that i was going to also share with the dating trends and stuff but i will leave this up to you you. I mean you can stay on here if you want to see him but if not i know it's been a long night you can also leave. It's totally up to you. what do you do. i'm gonna go eat dinner. okay. I feel like we could talk to you for hours. Be know like much to me. This is so much fun. You're always so much fun to hang out with. And i think that's what's so lovely about you in general is that you have this really serious like your therapy background. But then you bring the light and the playfulness to everything. We talk about dating. So thank you for having us on your yes. Thank you so much on my gosh. Thank you so much for. Have cutting the aunt you know. I just want plug your community. Because i had the pleasure to go on and remember. We did that fun. Things with you and it was so fun So definitely check their facebook group out and just let everyone yet. You know where to find your podcast and the face booker. Sure our podcast is on pretty much every podcast platform apple. Podcasts is like the go-to spotify. Pretty much you name. It be can also go to our website. Dateable podcasts dot com a good episode to start with hacks to looking your best with kimmy seltzer gateway like that one. I love it. It was it was a very big crowd favourite anyway. Obviously everyone loved that one so definitely check that out. I think especially in the world of virtual dating. You only get need to get dressed from the waist up. You might as well look good right. So kimmy is really good at yet you those hacks. And that's what i was going to tell everybody about as you guys have out because that is also trending.

01:25:02 - 01:26:56

It's like the the lounge wear is ashley and it's cute and also could be worn rusher as so ladies definitely. We have to do this again. Maybe we'll do in person one day be great hoax so hope so awesome and everybody on the chat as thanking you. And oh yeah. Everyone's like thank you. Thank you thank you and thanks for sharing your wisdom. The dateable podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with a handle at dateable podcasts. Tag us in any post with hashtag stay dateable and trusses. We look at all those posts then. Head over to our website. Dateable podcasts dot com. There you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium wise series. We're we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free. On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable. Get ready to cheer on team. Usa sign up for finnity internet and get a flex four k streaming box free peacock premium included. Can your internet do that. Restrictions apply not available in all areas subscription required. Xfinity proud partner of team. Usa here reasons to try a nest mattress one. They have a mattress for every kind of sleeper to nest offers free exchanges within a one hundred night trial and three save hundreds on everything bedroom related now through the summer at ness betting dot com.