What if we all took a pledge to stop ghosting and to commit to dating the way we wanted to be dated? Before we head into Season 14, let's band together to stop dating from going down a dark path by starting a new dating manifesto.
What if we all took a pledge to stop ghosting and to commit to dating the way we wanted to be dated? Before we head into Season 14, let's band together to stop dating from going down a dark path by starting a new dating manifesto. We discuss problematic dating terms like ghosting, zombie-ing, roaching, benching, and breadcrumbing, why these dating behaviors are happening in today's dating world, and how we can start to replace these terms with good dating behaviors.
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BONUS: Date the Way You Want To Be Dated
00:00:01 - 00:05:04
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
Hello Friends and lovers and data bowls. Welcome to another episode of the dateable podcast. We bring you another bonus episode with Julian I where we feel very passionate about this topic. We think a change is needed in a change is a common. This is the year. This is it, y'all, 'cause we're headed down a really bad path of dating if we keep doing the shit that we've been doing. And it all goes back to the beginning of the pandemic. If you listen to some of our earlier episodes at the beginning of the pandemic, we were so hopeful we were being romantic. We were being respectful. We were being so generous with our feelings and our emotions and now we're all just bitter, old bitches. That's how I feel. At least. You know, I think the west elm Caleb saga really did shed some light on how much we've just accepted bad behaviors. We've normalized everything and it really did cause us when we were talking about that on TV. And we'll never forget that moment. CNN and NBC. I think it was one of those things where we first heard it. We're like, oh yeah, this happens all the time. What's the big deal? But the more we thought about it, we're like, yeah, it is fuck this is happening. Someone is saying that they can't wait to spend another day with you and can't wait to go out again and then you never hear from them again. And why is that just normal? Right. And the fact that I still can't get over the fact that we went on CNN. Our debut appearance on CNN was for fucking west elm Caleb, okay? Right. We wasted our air time on this fucker who is just the epitome of bad, modern dating in general. So we got to change this up. Something's got to give. I think though it did cause us to reevaluate why this was happening. And so often we're definitely in each episode. We're talking about specific topic. And you and I have these macro conversations a lot. Why is dating the way it is? And I think a big piece of it we talked about is threefold. I think the first section is what a relationship means has dramatically changed for people. And it used to be in our parents day and age and even before then that it was expected that you were in a relationship and you married for stability. You had children. That was all the expectation, but in today's world that has changed dramatically, mostly to the rise of feminism and just having equality and relationships. And it's made us desire something a lot more. We want that soulmate. We want that life partner. We want that best friend. Oftentimes, it's one person for everything. And you know that is a lot to look for in a person. And I think it's great because we're children of divorce and we don't want to just be in a relationship to be in a relationship. But it also makes it difficult and especially when now we're opened up to apps that give us a zillion singles at our fingertips. It's very easy to want to find the best person out there, almost like you're shopping on Amazon. And we don't have a blueprint for this, our parents did not marry for love. I would argue most of our parents did not marry for love was for stability and safety that Julie was talking about. And we're the first generation to want something more in a relationship. Beyond just a stability and the safety because we know we can provide that for ourselves. And yet there is no buddy teaching us the ways of love. And then you bring on the second component, which is online dating, dating apps, nobody before us. Have even experienced anything remotely similar to dating apps. So here we are just these innocent chickens going about every day thinking, how can I really how can I really use these dating apps in my favor? And here we are again in a pandemic ridden world and we are still on the dating apps looking for love and we're all lost in that navigation of love. Yeah. And again, the upside is, I think our parents would kill. You've even talked about this UA when you've talked to your parents about dating apps. They're like, that sounds amazing. You can talk to all these people and we don't have to rely on family connections or Friends of friends and they are really amazing for this. I know I've met partners that I would never have met if it wasn't for dating apps.
00:05:04 - 00:10:02
So there's a lot of great that has come from this and especially in a world where we wanted all from this person. We need to have options to find it all. But the dark side comes when we're treating it like Amazon because that's not a human. And we're taking the human connection out of this. That's the part that's a little problematic. You know, you can do a two day return on Amazon, but when you make that a person, it becomes like all sorts of fucked. Yes. And then the third aspect of why modern dating is so challenging for many of us is the gender roles are changing. We talked about the me too movement. We talked about all of these gender related changes that have happened in the recent few years that are causing people to pause before they act, which is a good thing. That is the positive of it, but the side effect of that is that everyone is experiencing inaction, right? Because we're all afraid to kind of step forward or not even afraid. Maybe that's not the right word, but we're overly cautious to take those moves and to act upon our feelings. So we expect certain things from the traditional ways of doing things. I would say, myself included and some of my girlfriends still expect maybe the male to pay on first date. Yet, we also want to establish ourselves as independent, equal partners in a relationship. So what does that message sending to the people we're trying to date? And I think books like the rules were extremely problematic because it basically gave women no power at all. You were just waiting for men to. And this is, again, heterosexual relationships. That's all added another dynamic, too, that that's not the only world that we're in anymore. In a heterosexual dynamic, women basically were told to lean back. And to wait for the bad. And not do anything. And I feel like that was extremely problematic because you didn't put your love life in your own control. But I guess the only benefit it gave was that they were very defined rules of who did what? And you alluded to this UA. It's like with me too movement and men, the changes of masculinity. The problem that we're seeing is just no one's doing anything. There's just so much inaction. And honestly, that's the root of a lot of these bad dating terms, too, is just inaction. And that brings us to where we are today where dating for some people feel so fucked up. And we feel the same way. It's not that the people are fucked up. It's the culture that we've created is going down a dark path. People are not being accountable for each other, not taking responsibility for their own actions and as long as you're self aware and say that you're self aware, assholes can get away with asshole like tendencies and then the media loves these dating terms and all the dating terms are normalizing a humanizing bad daily behavior like ghosting, benching, breadcrumbing. We got to stop this shit. Yeah. It's so bad. It's so bad. And I think it's that it's not that technology is the villain here. I think technology is here to stay. If anything is just going to continue to expand. And it's so easy to blame apps. It's so easy to blame all of technology for this downfall. But the reality is there's humans at the other end of it. And I do think the Internet makes it really easy to be an asshole because you're anonymous basically. And that doesn't excuse this behavior, but it does propel why there's challenges. So we need to figure out ways that we can still be good, decent human beings while leveraging technology, because I don't think the answer is just to ignore technology either. I've definitely done that before that I'm like, okay, I won't be on apps and I'll just see what happens organically like the good old days. And then nothing happens. So it's not the solution to just boycott technology. Technology was made to help us. Yeah. Nobody created an app or device and said I want to ruin humanity with this app. That was not their intention. It is the people who are using the apps that is what's driving some of this fucked upness of what's going on. And what's even more scary in Julian I literally have nightmares about this is dating in the metaverse, okay? Yes. We can barely date on this universe. And here we are trying to date in this weird metaverse that we're talking about, where there's absolutely no human touch and we're all avatars. Like, sounds terrible. That sounds awful. We're already having a hard time with human connection. How can we connect in a made up world that just makes no sense? I think the problem is that technology is almost getting developed faster than humans can adapt to it.
00:10:03 - 00:15:01
Oh, that's an interesting thing. And the people that are behind the technology and I don't want to stereotype engineers because my boyfriend is an engineer, but the stereotype engineers is that they might not be the most socially in tune people, just putting out a stereotype. And not saying everyone. But if that's like who's at the forefront of technology, then we need to remember that humans need to catch up to it. Or it can become dangerous. It's a really good point because isn't that the basis of every AI based movie out there where the AI eventually becomes smarter than the human. Right. Run the universe because they're smarter, yeah, that is exactly what's happening because computers can build upon themselves on a daily basis, and if we are not doing the same with our own personal development, humans will eventually lag behind and machines well outpace us. And now there's a new TV show they're casting for dating a robot, like the future of dating, can you date a robot? It's like a matchmaking show. I don't want to watch that shit. That shit can not happen. No. No, it definitely can not. And I think that is, it is terrifying. It really is terrifying, but I'm sure the people that made Tinder never intended for people to send dick pics. On it. Like, I was sure that wasn't what they were even thinking. They're probably like, this is a way that we can expand people's reach of who they're going to meet and they can start chatting at the touch of their fingertips. They're not thinking about the effects of behavior that comes with it. Right. And with everybody that's trying to boycott online dating and seeing they're doing a dating sabbatical at the end of the day there are few human truths here. We are all longing for human touch, human connection. We would love to have someone to call on at the end of the day or when in need. We don't want to feel alone or lonely and when we want to celebrate those life milestones we want someone to share those moments with. Those are some human truths whether you are in the dating world or you're not, end of the day, when we go to bed, those are the things that we desire. And the reality too is we're not going to change the larger world that's out here. All the stuff we talked about at the beginning of just kind of the macro changes that are happening to dating are actually changes that far expanding. It's pretty much every form of connection out there and just societal change at large. And it's good, too. If this pandemic, if we didn't have the Internet. How fucked would we be? You would have had no human connection at all. And it's good that women are empowered. It's good that we're being pickier about our partner. All this is good. It's just how can we reframe the bad that's coming with it? So we aren't discouraged. We can get to the good. Yes. So the question for all of us and I'm sure if you're listening to this, especially welcome to our new listeners from our recent MSNBC appearance. It's really nice to have you with us. You're probably wondering, all right, so what is a solution? How can we change this? Do you girls have the answers? And we do. We have the answer. We been we've been thinking about this for so long. And the answer is, we gotta start a new dating manifesto. A new way of dating and if everybody imagine if everybody read this manifesto and believed in it and lived by it, then dating would be so much fucking better. Yeah, we got in our Facebook group. This gave UA and I both chills. We had one of our members Rebecca, so shout out to Rebecca. She posted, imagine if all of us in this group committed to not go stay into telling people kindly after a date or two that it was not a good fit. Imagine how we could change the culture of dating and create more kindness in this world. In 2022, I commit to radical honesty as one of my core attentions. Yes. I have now told two men that I started dating that it was not a good fit for me, but that I would love to stay friends and have wished them the absolute best in their dating endeavors. They both thanked me for my honesty and we have remained friends thus far. Can we all commit to doing this instead of ghosting or leading people on? Let's send a ripple of kindness into the dating pond. Let's counteract in personal and unkind dating culture. Yes, Rebecca. Standing ovation. That's what it's all about. If we can all take this pledge to date the way we want to be dated, then we would not be in this conundrum that we're currently in. Right, because I think people at the end of the day would rather have this honesty. And that doesn't mean just being nasty and mean. But what she wrote here is nice. It's actually way nicer than if you were to leave someone on red into ghost them.
00:15:01 - 00:20:01
It's so much worse. And I don't know why we think we're doing people favors or doing ourselves favors by doing this. Right. So what we did was we thought, okay, we have all these terms for bad dating behavior. How can we reverse the effects of bad dating behavior? Well, then we should start naming good dating behavior, right? And then start championing those behaviors. So we kind of came up with a few different common popular bad dating behaviors. We're going to define what they are. And then we're going to talk about the reverse and then some name suggestions. Now, the names are NASA and stone, we had a lot of fun brainstorm we mean. Some are bad real bad. Well, I think they're all good. Thank you very much, you're like you always said there's no bad it brainstorming, which I appreciate it. And I'm like, have you read by it yet? I'm sure whoever came up with ghost dating was like, what about the disappearing act? You know, there are other there were other options and ghosting stuck. So you have to go through all the other terms before you get to the intern. So you all are going to be part of history making here because we're going to come up with names for good dating behavior that we're going to keep using in our day to today lives. So we know when to recognize good dating behavior. So you'll be able to vote on Instagram at dateable podcasts. So if you're not following us yet, this is your plug. This is your calling. This is your call to action. And yeah, that's how we're going to do it because I think it really does take us all coming together. All of us banding together to change this. Yes, to fight it to fight it. Feels so empowering, doesn't it? It's like we're leading a movement, I love it. I'm ready to fucking go. Let's go. And before we get into all of this, let's do a few quick messages. This episode is brought to you by murad's skin care, a line of clinically proven cruelty free products that meet the meticulous standards for safety, efficacy and care, you'd expect from a doctor. One of my favorite products is the in business scar resurfacing treatment, which I've been seeing results from even just the first week. Founded by doctor Howard murad, who is a board certified dermatologist and trained pharmacist who's recognized around the world as a visionary for his unmatched scientific innovations. Murad has also launched a digital magazine and podcast called well connected by murad, connecting the dots between science and wellness, find the digital magazine at well connected dot murat dot com and the podcast well connected by murad wherever you listen to podcasts. And for dateable listeners only go to murad dot com and enter the code data for 20% off and free shipping for orders of $50 or more. Again, that's Mira dot com and enter the code D at BLE for 20% off and free shipping for orders of $50 or more. This episode is sponsored by better help, with so much going on in the world today, wouldn't it be nice to know there's a dedicated team on your side to help you through all of life's ups and downs. That's why we're so happy to introduce you to better help, a professional counseling platform that matches you with your own licensed professional therapist. Send a message to your counselor anytime or do what I do, schedule weekly video or phone Sessions, better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches, so they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed. Their license professional counselors specialize in depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, sleeping, trauma grief, and so much more. Just check out the testimonials posted daily on their site. 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And I'm one of them. It's my go to whenever I need to find and book a doctor, finding a quality doctor really shouldn't be that complicated. Zocdoc makes a search so much more pleasant. For our listeners, go to Zak Doc dot com slash dateable and download the zoc Doc app for free. Then start your search for a top rated doctor today, many are available within 24 hours. That's dot com slash DAT APLE. Dot com slash dateable. Let's talk about the first one ghosting. Everybody talks about ghosting, even my grandma will know that term ghosting.
00:20:01 - 00:25:02
So ghosting, what does it mean? It means it's a practice of like ending a personal or romantic relationship with someone by suddenly without explanation, disappearing with drawing from all communication and ghosting we realize is very similar to its cousin zombie, which is Julie. We'll do the honors. Sure thing. Zombie takes the sudden exit a step further. Rather than performing a total vanishing act, the person who goes to you might pop up again down the road. They're reemergence may be just as random as their departure. So what we're hearing here is avoidant behavior. People who do not want to deal with confrontation who do not want to speak their truth, they lack the communication skills to even communicate their needs and really it just describes people who are not ready for relationship, but they're engaging in romantic relationships, making people feel like they are. So what is good behavior? Okay, so let's think about ghosting is not good behavior. I mean, I think. Yeah, I think radical honesty, like Rebecca brought up. And that can be said in a really nice way. It doesn't mean that what she said to the people she was seeing. Again, that's doing them such a favor. And it seems like both of them were really receptive to hearing that. I think the other big pieces of this is setting someone free. That's the underlying piece here, whether it's zombie or ghosting, I think ghosting, you don't have an ending to this. In some sort of closure, you're just wondering what happened or what you did wrong or if this person is going to reappear in zombie on you and that is not fair at all. This person is now their mental energy is still on you, the person that ghosted. The worst part of ghosting is throwing it out into the ether and not knowing what happened to it. So the opposite of that would be persistent communication and closing the loop, closing the loop is so huge here. And we've talked about this in a previous episode, we can't start things until we've closed things and completed things from the past, otherwise they just all bleed in together. So got to close the loop. So we describe the good dating behavior here. What are some dating terms that we can use to describe these good dating behaviors? We do a brainstorm. Again, let's just forewarning that this is just a brainstorm. There are no bad ideas. We're going to take a vote of all of these. But what are some of these terms that we came up with? Okay, so the first ones that I came up with were freeing butterflying, setting the butterfly free. Dolly Lama ing, because I think of the Dalai Lama as being incredibly radically honest. Monkey also on that same boat a monk. Yeah. Mariah Carey because butterflies. Oh, there we go. Get to the next level. We're like, the fly brainstorm right now. Oh, closed looping is what I thought of and then persisting could be interesting. These are just some ideas again. We'll throw these up on our Instagram and we can think of a good catchy name for it. So what about zombie? 'cause I feel like this is definitely happened to me before. That the ghost comes back. They reappear. You know, this one is really hard because maybe moved on already. And where it's coming from is the person doesn't want to shut the door. They don't want to lose an option. In this comes from this world of wanting to have all the options to see what works. So what would you say some good ways to go about zombie and would be? Well, I think it's just allowing people to move on and closing that door closing the loop again. And then setting people free when necessary communicating clearly and being honest. And not coming back to someone for selfish reasons. We've seen people coming back because they're lonely, all of a sudden. It's a pandemic, and they have all this time on their hands. That's very selfish behavior. So being more intentional if you are coming back to someone. So I think it's stepping out of the way is a big one. I was thinking about what terms that we could do for this. So maybe cascading, putting it to bed, officially putting it to bed. Shutting the door. Those were some of the ones that came up to me. Yeah, I love it when Julie was like cascading. And I was like murdering? You're like, I'm going down a dark path here. Slashing? No. But what about like clogging or a plugging? Something like that just puts an end to things, shutting, extinguishing, sunsetting, corking, ceiling. Those are all final terms, I guess, what I'm thinking of, like, you're just putting a finale to it all.
00:25:03 - 00:30:03
Again, just a little brainstorm here. Did any of those stick? So much fun. So what's like a good sample text? I mean, I feel like Rebecca left one for someone. Let's say they've gone on a date in the it's just not there for them. What's a good way that someone can close the loop? We've seen a few of these come through something along the lines of I really enjoy my time with you and getting to know you as much as I enjoyed our time. I don't foresee a future or chemistry. So I wish you the best of luck and wish you the best or something like that. Yeah, you know, if the other person doesn't reach out, it's normalized to not say that you want to not see them again. But at the same time, is that just a forcing bad behavior that people are just avoiding things. Well, that's a tricky part. The thing is, we're saying that you should always close the loop. So when the loop is open, is when maybe the other person asks you out again. Or they're texting you and they're like, how's your day? Do you want to hang out again on Sunday? That's when you should close the loop, but if both people are not texting each other after a date, then I think just leave it right, right. I think closing the loop is like leaving someone just on red. I think is the worst. When someone texts you and you just don't reply to them. So yeah, I think just something simple what you said or I think you Rebecca even said it really simply like it wasn't a good fit and I'd love to stay friends if you really do want to stay friends and hey, you never know who their friends are. Yeah, and you also, when you say it's not a good fit, or I didn't see chemistry. There's no arguing with that. You're not like, oh, I don't want to see you again because I don't like the way you dress. And then there's arguing that's very good dress better. Right. But if there's no chemistry, nobody can argue with that and it's just a nice way to end that. Okay. Should we move on to broaching? Yes. The new term that came up. So gross. So what is roaching? When the person you've been seeing is hiding the fat that they've been dating other people. And when you find out and confront them, they claim they didn't realize it was a monogamous relationship. And the kicker here is why it's tied to roaching is once they do realize that it's not just one other person they're seeing. It's many, many, many people. Kind of like when you find a roach, there's usually a zillion more behind that roach. Another term for this is fuck boying. I mean, I think this is why people are in situation ships. They don't know what they are. They don't want to have the hard conversations because then it forces it to be a reality. It's like you don't want to hear that the person you're dating is dating a bunch of other people. It's kind of the worst thing in the world to hear that. But actually the worst thing is to think you're in a relationship, cut yourself out from other prospects. And then learn this down the road. And also the problem with roaching is that a roach comes into your home not knowing that it's not their home. You didn't give them boundaries. So of course they're gonna, they're gonna just take over unless if you try to extinguish them or give them some boundaries, you can not come into my home. Same with this. It's this west elm Caleb situation again. People are not setting the boundaries or having the DTR conversation, so then, of course, everyone's going to try to maximize their dating opportunities. Right. Well, I think it goes back to what we were saying at the beginning is that people want this ideal partner because they feel like they need to check all the boxes and do all the things. So by keeping all your options open and seeing multiple people at a time, I would say in theory there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're honest about it. The problem becomes what one person thinks that it's not that way. And the other person thinks that something's monogamous and the other person clearly doesn't. So what would some good behavior be? I think investing in a single person, I think it's so tempting to want to date all the people to find the best match. But the reality is the serial dating sometimes you never get to know someone deep enough and you never get to be seen or heard truly and move to that next level of a relationship. The reality is we do create love and we create relationships. You're never going to just stumble onto the perfect person. And the reality too is that all the stuff on our checklist, the data gaps give us the defaults to look at like height and occupation and all that stuff is ultimately not what matters in a relationship. Does this person show up for you? And are they kind and honest and all the qualities that really matter? And I feel like if you're just roaching and spreading yourself too thin, you never actually get to see that anyways.
00:30:03 - 00:35:05
Yeah. And the other problem with roaching is that it's to surface level. You're not getting to know people and spending the time to get to know people. It's that intentional or mindful dating. So good dating behavior would be, even if you're not dating one person at a time, you're being very intentional about it. Exactly. So some potential terms, we have for this. I'm actually going to move up some of my other terms. Now that we're talking about this. How about leave some of that out? I was thinking of what other animal is on the other side. They commit to a single partner. And beavers apparently are super bidon of us and wolves. So apparently wolves are till death do us part. So it could be beavering or woven, those were the two I came up with or love bugging. That one's just cheesy, but it came up with it anyways. Super cute. I love it. And I was just the opposite of roaching. I was like, fumigating, exterminating. I like that. But that's more just like calling out the roaches, right? That's like also a good dating behavior. But then if you are talking about intentional mindful dating, I was thinking sous vide, you know? I like that. Slowly cooking it. And when the flavors are full, then it's ready to eat, you know? It's just a slow burn. I like that. I think nesting, you put that one in. I like that one a lot. I think that I guess works technically, but not in the way that you want them to nest. Too much fun, too much fun with these terms. But I guess when you are when you do find out, okay, I guess it's twofold. If you do find out the person you're dating is roaching. It's time to have this conversation of, well, one, you have to know are you okay with that? If you're not okay with that, then you have to establish some boundaries. And the boundaries look something like I really enjoyed getting to know you. I also enjoy getting to know you one at a time and I will really like it if we could spend more one on one time together. And not date other people at the same time and see what they say about that. I like that. I think it's really important to lead with what you want and not just be like, so what are we? And that's a very ambiguous, so I like just stating what you want or even just like, hey, I've really enjoyed getting to know you the last month or so. I'm looking for someone that will move towards a monogamous relationship. What are you looking for? Yeah. Even if you're not ready to put it all out there, I think we can't be afraid to have these conversations in a DTR does not need to be this scary, you know, will they marry me or not conversation? It could just be checking in with the headspace that they're at. And I really think this goes back to the societal problems at large too, is that relationships have changed in our desire for them, which is a good thing. It's not a bad thing that we're just marrying for stability and financial means, but it also means that we've put at the forefront personal development. We've put our careers first. We put moving to new cities or friendship and all that. And that's very important. I don't want to underestimate that at all. But the downside is that it's made us not be able to have these relational conversations with romantic partners. And for some of us, relationships just are these toxic dating behaviors and dating trauma that comes with it. So it's really hard when we don't have a good examples of relationships. And I know I struggled on this for so long of just being able to have a conversation opposed to having someone be a mind reader or being afraid to have a conversation because I didn't want to hear a certain response, but learning that it actually is doing you a much bigger favor in the long run to know if your partner is roaching all over town opposed to being in this fantasy that you guys are exclusive relationship. And if you find that you're the one doing the roaching, many of you will be guilty of this. It's time to pause and think why am I roaching? What is this for? Am I looking for validation? Am I trying to occupy time when I'm alone? Am I afraid of true deep connection or am I running away from something? Those are all kind of symptoms of roaching and it's good to step back to recognize it and think about really the why behind what you're doing. That's a really good point because I think a lot of us are like, I'm just picky, which I don't know is like the most annoying thing to hear. I hate it. And I think you could say, I want the perfect partner because this is the life partner and it's supported. And I totally think you should be picky in some ways. This is the person you're going to be spending all your time with. So it should just be like any random off the street. But at the same time, if we're always just trying to find the best and what we perceive is better than no one's going to be good enough.
00:35:05 - 00:40:08
And therefore, we're just going to be alone. Oh, yes. That is the dating and the metaverse. That's what I see happening. So you're alone with your VR headset so sad. So sad. We can't happen as an avatar, you know? I don't know. It's too weird. It's way too weird. Okay. Okay. Next one on the list. Benching. And the sister term bread crumbing. Eating those breadcrumbs on a bench. That's what I picture. What does this mean? Okay, so maybe some of you haven't heard these terms as much. They're not as prevalent as terms, but they happen every day. Benji is when you like someone enough to keep seeing them, but not enough that you want to lock them down. So keep them as an option, but you continue to date around. This is the exact definition of a situation. It's basically you're in a thing with someone, but it's not defined and you haven't really deepened your relationship at all. Yeah. And I think it really comes from what we're saying before of being afraid to have those conversations to set boundaries. Is this self fulfilling prophecy too is that being in a situation makes us feel less alone? It makes us feel like we have someone, even though the best thing we could actually be doing is holding out for someone that is in it as much as we are. God, no kidding. Kidding. So the opposite of this is, I hope we're all just looking for that one true connection. You want to invest in one person at a time. And it feels good to both be committed to each other and spending the time to get to know each other as opposed to just surface level string someone along. What's the point of string someone along unless if you're looking for validation again, right? Goes back to that point of maybe you should step back and think, why am I benching someone? Yeah, I just remember the principle that's always stuck with me was I believe Logan Yuri talked about it on our initial podcast that we do with her way back the science of dating is when there's a return policy that you feel more ambiguous towards the item, but when there isn't a return policy and you commit to it, you start to love it even more. And I think with modern dating, it's easy to bench because of this promise that there's always someone else out there on the apps or that we have all this choice and options that it makes it easy not to commit to anyone and just keep going and always keep people around peripherally. Basically like your brain will be committed to whatever you want to it to commit to. Exactly. So if you feel like there's an out then your brain is like, nah, I'm going to keep looking for other options. Right. So some good behavior. I think it's investing. Investing in the person, I'm a proponent of trying to see if something will work. If you think there's something there, seeing if it will work and I'd rather end a relationship sooner if it doesn't work, and then move on over juggle all these people at surface level. It never be sure about anything. You know, making that investment investing in that single person committing the power of commitment that we were just talking about and just spending enough time to actually evaluate if you even like them. I think the problem with benching is that you're probably only seek them once a month or once every other couple weeks. And maybe not even for that longer period and just the reality is you're just not going to get to know someone at the level you need to know to see if this person's a long-term prospect. And again, not doing things out of selfish wants because you don't want to be alone or you want an activity partner that's not a good enough reason to bench someone or string them along. So that's also the positive behavior is being respectful of the people that you're dating, respectful of them and their time. I love that you're talking about investing because I feel like some of your terms Julie are very much in the gambling realms. Maybe you want to talk about those. I had picking your pony. Yes. Love it. You get a pony out, pick it. What I had that we've coined before is Sunday test. That's more of just like, how do you feel with this person on a Sunday when you're doing nothing, watching TV on the couch? How much fun are you having with this person? How much are you enjoying your time? And I made this correlation just because I think the byproduct of benching is that you're not giving people enough time. So true. Doubling down black jacking those are my big gambling tips. That's what inspired me to use chopstick because with chopsticks, you can only pick up so many things at once.
00:40:08 - 00:45:01
I like that one. That was a good one. Match sticking as well when you have a burn a matchstick, you can only burn that one matchstick for that one candle, right? Right. And then plucking, you know, I was just plucking my eyebrows this morning. I was like, damn, am I only pluck one hair at a time? Can you believe it? I was gonna say that's gross, but it's darker than roaching, so we're good. Thinking outside the box, kids. I like that one. I like it. And then most of you are probably wondering about breadcrumb egg and how this one is different or similar. And I think they're very similar. It's the same root that you're just not getting this whole person. I think with breadcrumbing, it's more that they're just giving you these little breadcrumbs. These little hints of a relationship. Maybe they're watching your Instagram story. Oh my God. Maybe they're texting you, but not really committing to plans or maybe they are even committing to plans, but it's like once every month. Right, or they're deep liking your posts from two years ago. Yeah, like they're giving you a little but not the full pie, which is kind of where I came up with the term pie egg, which you ate mistook for peeing. I was like peeing that is an interesting term. I think you'll go viral. We just have to explain it. I don't see the connection, but I'll trust you. I'm down. I'm down. We'll make it work. But I think with all of these, it's like people want this companionship, but they don't want to put in the work. And I think that actually is a byproduct of the current time society at a large too. It's like we want a car at a touch of a button, so we have Uber. And it's on demand. But love does it work that way. It relationships. You can't just press a button. It expect for it to show up. And I think a lot of times we don't have the desire to actually do this work because everything else is so easy. The way that technology is built it. So also when it's not easy, we just give up and we're like, this isn't the right fit, let me bench this person. Yeah, so the opposite of that behavior would be like you said diving in head first, accepting people for who they are and investing time into other people and making your intentions clear. So you said, pieing, which is like giving someone the entire pie, which inspired me to say caking or just like having a cake and eat it too. I like that one. And then one of the other ones. Muscati, I think you might have added that one. Oh, yeah. Well, you didn't do the deep end ones. Oh, I don't know about these ones, but it's the deep end deep sea diving. They're not catchy enough. It was more of like hype. Could be good, yeah. Diving. I came up with musketeer and because it's like all for one one for love, you know? Okay. Go all in on it. Notebooking, like the movie, I don't know why. I just felt so inspired. Notebooking like you'll give up everything for that person. I like it. And then I also said, the opposite of benching, I was thinking about it. It's like, I don't know. I was definitely all the B squad a lot. High school sports. I feel like I was always on the bench. So I think of the a team varsity. I don't know. There could be something with that. Yeah, or the starting team starting team. Yeah, the starting lineup. Starting line up. You hear me typing 'cause I'm typing these out right now. Yeah, it just feels so much better even saying these terms. It does. I guess if you're in a situation where you feel like you're getting breadcrumbed, or you feel like you're being benched. You're basically not a priority in both of these. How do you handle it? Yep, you first, you got to recognize that this is happening to you. And then you start looking at our positive dating terms and think in a healthy situation, this is how my partner would treat me. They would be musketeer and there'd be diving. Maybe a teaming, you know? Look at these terms. And think I want to be aligned with these terms as opposed to like the breadcrumbing and the ghost egg. And I think there's nothing wrong with saying, you can even call people out and say, I feel that I'm being breadcrumbed. Right now. And I really want the whole pie. And so I wish you nothing, but the best say that line too, and then I think this is the end. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's definitely some of it is in the people we choose and that's part of it is that we need to find the people that will give us that pie because it's a lot easier to find someone that wants to give the pie than forcing them to give the pie. But I also think it's ourselves too. We talk about a lot, this game of relationship chicken that people are in. And I think what happens sometimes in breadcrumbing and benching.
00:45:01 - 00:50:01
It's like, well, this person only wants to hang out once a month. I'm going to be busy, or I'm not going to reach out. And I think it's a lot of bad behavior stems from ego and fear and not wanting to be the loser. A lot of you should be the winner of this. It's almost like a competition, which is not what a relationship is at all. So I think it's like, how can you show up the way you want to be shown up for? And at that point, if someone's not meeting you, then you know it's not them. But I think just blaming the other person in walking away isn't always the best step. I think you know in your gut is this something that is worth giving a shot and not maybe forever and ever, but is there a defined period that I can give it a shot and see if things if we show up differently for each other? Yeah, the ultimate barometer is to look at what you're looking for and do your actions and their actions line up to what you're looking for. It just is shocking to us how many times we hear people saying they want a healthy, loving relationship where both partners are giving each other a 110% yet in the dating game, they're ghosting breadcrumbing benching, roaching, you know, all of the ways to show the least amount of interest. Isn't that shocking to hear that the dichotomy of the two behaviors, what you're looking for versus what you're actually doing. So for all of you who are dating, who are experiencing this right now, the first thing to do is to look to yourself and ask am I guilty of this bad dating behavior? And if we can all be more responsible for our own actions, then it will make modern dating so much better all around. Yep, and that's the commitment date the way you want to be dated. First of all, if you do this, you'll also be able to recognize if someone is not coming to your standards because you'll easily see that you're giving that and you're not receive it. So I think that's step one. And then two, I personally would always rather know that I was doing all I could and realized that's just not the right match, then have that what if I had approached it this way or what if I hadn't played this game? So I think we're moving some of that is only going to help you. And we can't control other people. And there's maybe not everyone that's on board with this new way of thinking, maybe people are still doing the ghosting, the breadcrumb egg, and the roach egg, but all we can do is say thank you to them for making way for the person that isn't going to do that stuff. Amen to that. So raise your right arm and if you are in public, raise your imaginary right arm. Anyways. Anyways. Raise your right hand. Raise your right arm, my hand, open your palms and pledge this, repeat after us. I insert your name. I Julie, yes. Pledge to date the way I want to be dated again. I insert your name pledge to date the way I want to be dated. There you go. There you go. You just pledged to all of the daters out there and to us and if you didn't do that, then bad. Bad, bad, bad. And when you take this pledge, too, the pledge is to also not let the people that haven't took this pledge get you down. They are not there to get in your way of finding your person into making the dating life you always wanted. All you could do is say good riddance. It may be send them this podcast episode. Exactly. I was just gonna say that. You don't even have to say much. It was nice getting to know you, here's a link to this episode. Listen to it. If someone goes to you, just said the link. That's all you gotta do. And also, did you know that we're now on cameo. So if someone does ghost you bench bench you or breadcrumb you, you can get us on cameo to make a video and to send to them. You don't even have to say anything. We'll just do all the dirty work for you. And if you want a pep talk before your next date or you want to just bitch, get it out about that coaster. We're here for you. We are so here for you. And we'll always be here for you. So thank you for listening to our new dating manifesto week. We really feel that if we can all take this pledge and stick to it, we will, we will avoid that hell of a dating metaverse scenario that we just set up at the front of this episode because we sure as hell don't want to be there. Yes. And very last announcement, our finding your person program special V day edition is three days only, so that ends tonight at midnight, PST.
00:50:02 - 00:52:55