BONUS: The Museum of Modern Dating w/ Ken Page of Deeper Dating

Dateable Podcast
August 4, 2020
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August 4, 2020

BONUS: The Museum of Modern Dating w/ Ken Page of Deeper Dating

First, we'll run down the results of Julie's around the world dating app experiment and then we'll chat with Ken Page of Deeper Dating about the landscape of today’s dating world.

The Museum of Modern Dating w/ Ken Page of Deeper Dating

Would glory holes be in the museum of modern dating? Maybe in COVID-19 times! First, we'll run down the results of Julie's around the world dating app experiment and then we'll chat with Ken Page of Deeper Dating about the landscape of today’s dating world. We'll discuss some of our most moving dating stories, our best advice, and the most essential challenges facing daters today.

Thank you to our partner for this episode:

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Episode Transcript

BONUS: The Museum of Modern Dating w/ Ken Page of Deeper Dating

00:00:00 - 00:05:03

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.</span> Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we dig into the Y Y Y Y Y constantly asking why when it comes to dating why people do the things they do and why people think the way they do, and that's what we're here for in addition to. Let me introduce you ladies and gentlemen to fuck. Way slayer Julie. Craft Shakers so Like You. Like you like theme. Song. Don't. Do you fuck boys Like come on. A desk for the first time goes back to last episode. that. Needs. Much explanation. I think. People I'm in the way. I heard voice later this is the podcast I wanna be at Holloway join this team I gotTa tell you I'm so I'm in so cal right now and it is hot is and so sweaty we did another recording this week by the end of it I was I had such bad pit stains on my team got gotta go wash it right away. It's so hot. Yeah I mean I guess San Francisco Summers. Pretty cold escape things and we have more of our differen- anyone that doesn't live in SF. It's like more of the delayed summer is like September October and actually our coldest month like the whole year is like ironically July I've had way too many friends, Boston be like I'm GonNa come visit in July like please don't like stay where you are is so much better. So it's a false on here, but I also feel like people who live in San Francisco forget every year. Every until block of like summer and then. If you leave San Francisco it's hot like even go like like San Jose Yep one, hundred east spe North Bay anywhere. It's just the fog hit San Francisco in July exceptionally but I'd agree it's like one of those Bento blocks that because I think you also see people all over the country doing like summer activities yeah. I, remember my first summer in San Francisco five years ago I wore shorts and a north face jacket and I was like L. in the world would I be wearing this combination right now like hot during the day maybe toll to win to Dolores and then it dropped like twenty degrees and had to put on my north based Craziness craziness I tell you it's always crazy time these days always unpredictable. How was your week? It was pretty good. It was pretty good I went to. I think a lot of cities are doing this but in San Francisco, we blocks off the Lenzi, a street in the mission and it's all restaurants all outdoor dining and it's almost feels like European like it's pretty cool. Actually I was really digging it and then I went to Golden Gate. Park today and just again a lot of people out but everyone said mass and it feels relatively safe. So you know knock on wood continues to be at this level San Francisco never like fully reopened so it's Not Like we closed anything back down but Stephanie Different, it's not like how life was, but it's the new normal. I guess I ventured into L. A. Today I was so scared but oh yeah, you know hearing the nightmare stories about l. a. and everyone was wearing a good I wouldn't say they were there were socially distanced to because the outdoor seating was pretty damn crowded but everyone seemed somewhat responsible for so I felt good I had my mom with me we we were in full on gloves. If it if it wasn't so hot outside I, think we would have warned raincoats or something, but we had full on gloves. My mom brought some face shields we didn't wear. You the feast, she also bad walking walking in studio city like everyone else's half-naked my mom and gloves face shield. Yeah. Safety First, right. So speaking of safety I, I remember I told you earlier this week I've tried to be as safe as possible coming down to so cal so I'll. I'll give you the rundown of what I did and then maybe this can help others or maybe Others can give me suggestions for trying to even safer next time I wanNA see my parents. So coming down to so cal, I took Jay Essex and jazz x basically goes smaller plane thirty people capacity but there were only seven people on the plane.

00:05:03 - 00:10:06

So it was really far away from everyone. That's good. Don't actually go into the airport. So the terminals like outside so you don't have to. Be Part of the airport germs and when I got back to my parents house. So I took I took a covert before coming here tested negative and then when I got to my parents house, I went straight to my room corentin myself took off all my clothes through it in the washer dryer took a shower washed everything down wiped everything down, and then I wore ask and I'm still a mask around my parents. So my parents and I don't share and utensils are food is all separate a wash, my own dishes, which as any adult should anyway. And I eat outside. It's really funny. I eat separately from that is the part that cracked me up the most that you're like, yeah, I'm sitting there is. Like my parents are waving at me my mom's you want any more vegetables. Also point out you didn't go down just for you know shits in a goal like a fun trip I know there's a lot of influencers getting like a not calling us influencers I will just say that because I hate that name but. Just putting it out there that there's a lot of influencers getting flak for like traveling a lot in not wearing masks and photos and stuff like that, and it's clearly just like a leisure travel and I agree there's something about it that doesn't sit well, and I think especially when they're like taking photos and like all up in each other's grow without mass on there's something like Ecu that I feel. It's not a good vibe. I'm like the mask police on instagram. If I see anybody I know taking a picture with other people without a mask on I always comment and I always say like where's your mask and the response is always like Oh we took we took off our masks for the photo. But you could also catch the virus from one millisecond take your mask like why why do you think you're exempt from taking a photo? I don't know there's a lot of photos of people just like all over each other like hugging yeah. All that stuff and I'm like, I don't get that like I get the need to have some social interaction especially if you've been quarantined by yourself I get or even if you've been. Quarantined with a significant other your family, you're probably freaking sick of them by now and other social interaction. So I get that as long as you're like safe measures. But what's the need to be like all hugging someone like I can write bond with you from six feet like there's no need. Why do you need to take off a mask for photo? You look probably better with a mask on I'm just saying a lot of. People. Look better with a mask on. You will say that we had at the happy hour this week we do for anyone that hasn't her this already we do the weekly. Yeah. Sure. If you have anyone do we do the weekly happy hour in our facebook group people love just as a way to connect with others and we actually talked about what we talked about this episode a couple of weeks ago about like would you? Her like have sex with someone in a mask doggy style only or like would you rather just have virtual sex and the responses were hilarious like there were some people that was like damn like it's been. So fucking long like I would go in there. Just get it done to get out of there and others are like no germs like I don't want it. Just the range of replies were just hilarious slash sad I duNno. Slash Sad. I'm not sure what the right word. my friend and I were texting over the weekend talking about how we can make glory holes business like a drive through glory hole and you can make it kind of like Gig economy wise read you can hire people to be part of the sucking. Or hand jobs and then charged the other way. So you earn double commission right from both sides. You're basically like fiber, but for people who want to get up. and think about it really works like you just WanNa make sure that everyone while employed everyone's active like going get their shit done. You know like, I I don't see anything wrong with it. It's just more the hygiene. Need to control somehow but honestly, glory holes are great. You don't care. You're not trying to be picky who's on the other side you just you're just trying to get shit done trying to make a deposit at the bank. This is what I said. If you're the bank, you don't care who the teller is there to make a deposit. Yo. For anyone that doesn't know a glory holes are, can you give you know I don't know you know I just want I don't want anyone excluded for. Either ways at a translation that's Julie saying. So what's very whole? Asking for a friend. Doesn't know myself. Well, my understanding but glory hole is just holes in a wall and you stick your penis through and on the other side, you can choose to have your Pena sucked or jerked off by someone you have no idea who it is you're just guarantee to get off somehow.

00:10:06 - 00:15:07

So is there an option for women for this feels very one sided? It is very. It's hard to stick of. A Wall I don't know I. Could just have. You? Do is like a upside-down glory hole you sit on a bench or some of. These yeah, and people underneath can. You from under hey, you know what? If your entrepreneurial now's the time and then we just call it something else glamour wholes. Whole doesn't. Just, Lamour Hollway, the class it off. Lambert's glory. Got Martini while you get your. Business Idea You I. had a couple of years ago if. What Vagina seeming. I feel like this could have like seventy pass but anyways, we could go on. Longer on this. She's like, I want to change the subject meanwhile. I'm like. Gwyneth Paltrow, are you free? Would you like to invest? New Business Glamour Holes LLC. But I've been quite a week you a doing this dating APP experiment own. All over the mortgage everywhere everywhere I actually took notes because I had so very findings that I was like I'm not going to remember them fantastic refresh I guess for anybody who doesn't know this experiment Julie has decided to travel the world dating through three virtually. So she has chosen a different location each way each day you know what started off each week and doubt his condensed a lot because there's at a different location. So I'm saying like you know sometimes, I even go to places in a day. You know those are a lot easier when you'RE DOT com. Yeah and for ninety nine. Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to see for any one also that didn't here last week, but you can always go back and catch it. But the idea is just like you know since we're in this virtual world, you can really date anywhere. Everyone complains that everyone bitches about their city and I wanted to see if there really were similarities or noticeable differences in different. Cities with dating APPs again, for anyone that's questioning the logistics year yes. It is a sample size of one. This is Donna scientific study especially now that I'm only going to be there for a couple of hours potentially, I'm actually not having like long in-depth conversations with a lot of people. So this is more just superficial like what I'm noticing in the swipe world. So I WANNA preface that. Okay if you see something different if you live in one of these cities in your life note that does not hit it at all please right in tell us because we can always share that perspective. anyways. So you gave me quite the list last week. And now the list is like super long because all of you listeners gave recommendations on the facebook group on Instagram so. Try to go everywhere. I might have to align. Julie you might have to clone yourself. Or other people can pick up the experiment and right in there. Always that option I think also just one of the things I've realized from this is I'm ready to go back in date like actually dating meeting people and I think before this I again for anyone that's coming in blade like. Something in May issue I think was may yeah like mansion really. Yeah. Wow. It's been three months. Yeah. I know doesn't feel like either I can't even I can't decide if it spills or war I. To it, but we're into a time vortex in general. But yeah in May end, it's a long term relationship a mind that we were giving another chance. So it was an accident wasn't like a consistent long-term relationship, but it was you know we decided not to pursue it. So afterwards, I got back on dating APPs and realized that I was just there for vanity swipes and not really wanting to do like full-on conversations so it took a little time off now the. Experiment end honestly, this experiment has made me want to dislike meet up with people in real life again and have more actual connections dates. So I think you said it really well in our episode with mingy date me first which we talked about like getting back onto dates after a break up to it's like you kind of know when you're ready to just meet people again, even just platonic like you. You haven't urged to meet someone not feeling like you should be. On the APP. So I've got in that urge back. So thank you experiment forget the ad by Shell in May be coming back there I think there's always a silver lining in every experiment.

00:15:07 - 00:20:08

That's awesome. Yeah. So why I said that is I'm GONNA continue the experiment for one more week in a bunch of the locations that were done in. Then pass the torch to anyone that wants to like write in and tell us about their own experiment we can keep it. GOING IF we're getting a lot of these submissions or not will do some other experiment. There's so many more that we can do along the lives the other side of it there is a few people that I by the toward with their emotions a little with its that's like I'll go into it but I feel like there's a little bit of that that I don't love. So that's why I also WanNa be limited for another week in then move on to A. More authentic reason for being on the. Cat very good. So I went to Chicago that was one of the ones that you way said first of all I, want to point out there really fucking hot guys in Chicago Yeah I was like a really attracted to a lot of the dudes that I was swiping mid West. Blood. Hot. Like none of the ones I like swipe back on me. It was like one of those things that there were a lot of like really attractive man but I wasn't getting the reciprocal match with them like I was getting other people but they weren't the ones that I was really attracted to it was it wasn't like a gold mine I guess is what I'm trying to say short it was when you just look at the people but for whatever reason, and that could be a ton of reasons I don't know what that is be just you know like baby they're not that active maybe I'm not the type I don't know what the answer is. None other women in Chicago would love to hear your hearing this two or seeing this like really attractive. Making the move anyway. So put that out but I noticed one thing that was very interesting. I mean I'm a Jewish woman in I expect La New York to be late juice central and I'm there swiping I know I'm GonNa get a lodges Chicago. Tons of Jewish man Yup, I very surprised by that bill over from New York yet, and then also I noticed a lot of men in their forties and I think that's also my age is going up a little like. But one of the things that there was always this perception at least I had was that it was hard to date in Chicago the older you got because mid Western people tend to settle down earlier. So my theory is there either divorced not putting that on their profile or I mean who knows maybe just spillover from other major cities where people tend to settle leader I don't really know what the answer is, but I noticed that and I noticed a lot of people didn't. Reference divorce or their kids. But also I notice I know that people sometimes don't want to put that on regardless it's hard to gauge if they really were not. That's really interesting because if you swipe here in in Orange County it's a lot of men in their forties but they're all single dad so many singled after all have pictures with their kids to interesting interesting I. also noticed a lot of moderate people like more moderate than in conservative than you see San Francisco like. Everyone's liberal in San Francisco Right Also, I think in terms of diversity I still saw like majority white like newer few like black, African, American very few Asians in Chicago, in general though it felt very white but there was a lot of diversity in background and job and I think you actually mentioned that as a theory and I noticed that a lot of people in like trade professions or just various different things. It wasn't just generic industry like you see in like SF`er. Or New York. Or maybe new. York I can't say that one, hundred percent I'll say SF, LA, 'cause, I've been domino dominating industry. Yes. I also got tips hot tips from our facebook group to go to. The Grove in Logan Swear Square Downers Grove is like a western suburb outside Chicago so I was in north loop and I kept my Distance Twenty Mile Radius. So hopefully, that's picking up like a big part I did I tried to a little research of like where good area was set myself? So again, listeners if you live there, you're like you should have been here like you know us in snow I don't fully is just the Internet only. But we got this feedback. So Downer's Grove was really interesting. It was pitched to me as dad's never married divorced no kids executive non-executive excetera Celikkol wide variety of people in I definitely saw that I don't know how much more noticeable it was there that Chicago though but I tried there in the low Logan Square and Logan Square felt a little more like creative in hat but nothing like super noticeable either so that you are also there for like half a day exactly exactly Philly. You had to go to Philly and I chose fish town which I which I read online was like more of like the younger professional area.

00:20:08 - 00:25:00

Did you re did my research I tried to make sure I was in a place lag probably live if I was there so It was definitely diverse in terms of looks and race occupation education very eccentric people like I can't even really put into words. What that is I was trying to dissect this a little war for you because by visceral reaction was to get the fuck out of Philly. It was just like there is something that I just was every guy was getting. I. Was Not Dow with and I was trying to articulate this better because I knew you'd be like, okay why in honestly I still can't articulate it. I think I might need to go back to Philly into a little more due-diligence here. So here it not all of my friends who've ever dated Philly said that they either like wanted to leave the second day. Just dating in Philly not in Philly or they didn't feel safe interesting by the by the people interested in what that could be s was deathly by far the most knows I've ever swiped in any city wide. But everyone seemed to go to Temple University. That was my one thing that I know my God yes temple. I mean. Again, I can go back there but I would love to hear from our affiliate listeners of what 'cause again, if even if I go for a day or two I'm not going to get a full thing. I think once this restriction gets band your you at I should take a little trip to phillies because I wanna to know what's happening. To I know people who travel to New York just to date because they did not want to stay in today. Wow. What is going on there? Okay. Screens, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. I went to Sicily because you told me a thrive necessarily where well. Hinge apparently is not very popular in Sicily. So it was very hard for me to get batches. I had to keep moving my location. I had actually turned off that twenty mile radius with something I preferred in. Then I finally got this really hot guy and I looked to see where he was from he was from Tampa Florida. Noticed everyone there was an ex pat. So be able to say I think hinge just might not be a thing is there So, I couldn't really read. Sicily I. Guess Short by one match was a residence. No I think that's really just APPA Self Yup. So while I was across the Pod I, decide to hit up London I. Know This wasn't on the list, but you know how I love London dudes and boy was I right literally right swiped on everyone. He's got we have a thing wanted is very diverse. The people you're getting, but there's something about all of them that just some it factor I don't know what it is that I don't know what it is that beaks. Like really witty. Yeah. Like society there's something charming about pr being and I got so many messages to think also what I loved about London is that usually unhinged the just like like someone's photo and I admit that I'm laziest fuck with dating apps and typically just like someone's photo and not put in a message in the guys in the US do the. Same, they'll just like your stuff and then someone eventually will start at whatever. But in London people would look like they would add comments to the photo when they sent it over. So I saw it just a lot more messages engagement and I got the nicest messages ever received in my life and I actually Freeman I actually wrote him because I felt bad so I don't know if he copy and paste this to me plus a bunch of people or if it was uniquely ridden for me but men listening, you should do something like this. This should be a variation and I don't care if it's a copy and paste like this. Made me this guy I don't know if I would swipe for him just being. Fully. Transparent. But it made me stop and look at him again because of this message since what he wrote, your truly beautiful in seem warm-hearted to your smile is utterly captivating. My heart skipped a beat when I first saw you I am speechless I know wow. Is it that supervised because usually you'll get these like you're hot or something? Yeah, which is not. At all so Just take a second to write something like it doesn't i. don't know there's something about this message. Let me know what you think I didn't think it was cheesy like I just thought it felt authentic and I really thought it was dice. Yeah and also just like when you've heard a message, you want even though if you write a hundred messages a day, every message feel bespoke for that person like you really took the time to think about them and that's What that message really means is this person took their time to write this message for you.

00:25:00 - 00:30:00

There is something right now the smile line to like one of our friends and Asif, she said that she would shoot that too man like I really like your smile. Even if you are mass sending, it feels like it is custom for you. Of course, only if Paris is smiling and their profile than they realize your best Sunday, she's a very nice message in general. and. I actually felt the need to reach out to him in batch and be like, Hey, don't live here like a just doing this. You know. I. wrote that it was such a nice message I would have felt bad just ignoring it but I mean what I said before I realized that I'm looking to like actually date again and I've. Situations in London I'm not really looking to recreate that. So I didn't want to go there and I was like I did just be honest with this guy. So so after this, we start a go fund me for Julie Just live in in in the UK for a little bit because I think she would do really well, and she should just stay there for a few months. Bring up bring back a man I don't know if I need a go fund me as much as the US dot to be banned from being right? Yeah, you need A. Good reason to get over there. I know you're right. So the logistics then I went to Boulder and Denver those were my loss to stop member. So this is where things got too much so. I feel like because I was doing this really quickly, all my people started merging together out I I was like this isn't the guy that I would expect in Boulder and then I realized I was getting London people still oh. Yeah, I. think that's what I'm like. Okay. The calmed down the experimental because honestly people started messaging me in they're like the one guy I I actually thought he was from San Francisco turned out he was. For. No Yata similar anyways. There were I, feel like everyone. There was white bearded basically. Yeah. Exactly. Stereotype that I thought. Yeah and they were all in wilderness they were skiing retreating beardie. Confirming every single stereotype. So yeah. and. DENVER, I feel like the exact same five but it was just like a little more broadly was my. Maybe a little bit more cosmopolitan. It really see that it was. Just. Bro, you. Feel. I. Just realized that's not by five. Yeah, definitely. That's not your. That's not your thing. You're like trying to go camping every weekend and make your like my worst nightmare. And for anyone that has replied to the instagram story, there were so many suggestions of where I can go next. These were just a couple of them there were more but I'll I'm consolidating the list because I can't possibly go everywhere. So Boston, Miami Calgary. Canada Seattle Melbourne Auckland Kansas. City Portland. Moscow. PHOENIX. This Dallas New Orleans Washington, DC LONDON STOCKHOLM, but I've already been to London Moscow. I'M GONNA guess there's probably not many people. So maybe you can pick the re more for me to go out of that list I did promise Calgary to one of our face members, Jim caliber you that one let's to Calgary. Let's do. Gosh you let's try to see okay I'm curious I'm curious about DC so Calgary DC and let's do one more non US Melbourne's yeah. Why not no guarantees of their hinge population I feel there would be more than some of the other places listed. Yes. While your backup can be New Orleans. I just New Orleans basically should just be its own entity. Anyway. That's true. Also add Miami because I'm curious. Yeah. Spend like a layover in Miami the. Half Day in Boston I already know 'cause I lived there for many years. So anyways, that is the next installment of this. Van Der -ment dating around the world but Julie Craft the fuck boy slayer. Of over next show I think this is this is so great. This is like when I was single, I would just swipe everywhere I went. When I when I was working in the UK on a TV show there, I would every time I go there I swipe swipe. I had a boyfriend for like a week. There was so great. that. A vacation boyfriend because I love John. So like all my profile I say I like John Cusack and this guy happened to have a very similar John Cusak and he had a great opening line.

00:30:00 - 00:35:12

We ended up dating for a full week a full week long term relationship. Yeah, we talked about. Me Moving over and all this stuff. It's just like playing house as soon as I left I was like your right. But But it's always fun to. Date now, you could to do virtually. That's true. I do always love doing that when I go to a city just to see what like. So what you have I think also what I realized too is that you know when you're like, Kinda getting sick of your city in the new go somewhere else. Happens Theresa is when I'm sick of SF I'll go back to Boston to home and then I'm like I can't wait to go back to yeah. That's how I felt are this experiment was like, Hey, it's not that bad ticket SF isn't that bad I'm going to go back and then I actually started talking to someone that I might not have talked to before because I realized my location was not confined anymore because of the whole Sicilian situation is I actually end up talking to someone for quite a bit yesterday from Healdsburg in. Perfect country, which I probably would've with them all the time. So you never know you never know. But yeah, I think the one thing I wanted to ask you you. You made a comment on the face for group we tight data experiments before about changing your name you bet you that used to change your day, oh south of us at the Dating. Name Discrimination is already pretty bad in just normal society, but in dating, it's really bad because with my name like why you e first of all people don't know how to pronounce L.. So they may not want to swipe on me anyway because they're like, oh, they have to ask for how to pronounce it and to think some people just assume I don't speak English. Sorry. Remember going on a few dates where the guys will show up and be like, wow, you speak perfect English unlike and. You don't like. What does that mean but I get it like misnamed discrimination can do a lot. But when I changed my name to Tiffany, I would get so many. Bro Matches. Sense right there like it's tiffany. So I think you should definitely do a little name experimentation next for that next round Cath next round. Yes. We'll keep that outside of the city will do that time yeah like you said to May. Variables Yobe? Time? Yeah and then we have people nate like vote on different names. Heavy so it's going to be so good I love it. Love Experiments. This is this is going to be just so I mean like you said, I think the day where you learn from dating experiments is you learn a new thing about your preferences Which makes you more open and it puts you in a better situation to find someone in your own city. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to start something new this week you've all loved the would you rather so much on our instagram that we're going to post a new? Would you rather every Wednesday on her instagram for you to answer? So we're going to post the next one this coming wind today, right? If you're listening to this today but anyway Wednesday. If you know win win say as we're posting it on our instagram it's at dateable podcast, and then when we record this intro again, the following week, we will let you know all the results every week you're going to get a new question and then we'll reveal the results and comments and feedback. I have a really good one for this week. So definitely get on instagram. PODCAST follow us. Follow us there and. I. Know We've we glossed over this last week we didn't get to talk about it but our CELEB- dream cast I guess like dream guest for. Next. Season we we want to say her name every week just so if anybody knows allies Schlesinger, if anybody knows her then baby remotely Than has ever matched with her when she was single. Please let us know we wanted to get her as a guest on her show. That's our celebrity ultimate wish Yeah. That's that's like we have others on our list, but I don't have time to go over them but allies Schlesinger fellow elder millennial we love to get her on her show. So now we will get to our episode with campaign we were on his podcast called deeper dating podcast. So who has can page? He's a renowned psychotherapist, popular psychology, today Blogger Huffington post blogger, and author of the best seller deeper dating, how to drop the games of seduction and discover the power of intimacy, and also in my dreams. One of my BFF's I really love high. Page so much and I think the way what he talks about with us like the way he positions us I love so much. It's like he was talking about it being like this like museum like we are curator of the Museum of modern dating that we've heard so many tales and all of that we could basically tell you everything you need to know about Modern Day Day and I think that was such a nice way to put it and why we love campaign so much besides everything else is.

00:35:12 - 00:40:21

The fact that he's been through the trenches, he went through the whole genre of game playing and trying to played like mind tricks with guys he was dating and he finally came to the realization that those things were not going to work and he needed to buckle down and figure out what he wanted to relationship. So now he's happily married, but he's been through the trenches. So I feel like he's been there with us and he came out on the other side. So let's go deeper with Kim page. So you a and Julie of the dateable podcast I'm so thrilled to have you here. Thanks for having US, Ken. Yeah we're excited to and I was on one of your earlier episodes in season nine and had a really good time they are and. I just love what you do. I love the intelligence, the thoughtfulness, the edginess. Curiosity the spirit of curiosity that you enter into this with an all of the amazing stories and ideas and insights and thoughts that get rated on your podcast. Thank you people loved your episode to is definitely one of our crowd favorites. We definitely have mutual love with you. I just WANNA promote you one quick second. You're on season nine episode six in an episode called deeper dating with campaign. Okay. For anyone interested. Candidates, is amazing. Both saying like that was like the most light in conversation I've heard in a while. So yeah, it was awful. Oh. That makes me feel great. That makes me feel great and I'm so excited to dive in today because I feel like you know there's this this kind of social distancing resource available now, which was probably available before, but it's visiting museums all over the world. Via the Internet and I feel like in your years of curate. The most amazing episodes and hearing so many stories from the frontline of dating and then working with them in thoughtful ways, tips inside stories. That that it's like almost like a virtual walk through a museum of ideas that are really important. So I am thrilled to walk down the halls of this museum with you and I have a whole bunch of questions that I think can highlight some of those things I. Love that visual I'm thinking about walking through museum about dating as seeing all the artifacts of the ways people used to date back in the day three. Inch. Right. It's it's too I remember Marianne Williamson was giving a talk once and she said that she was in a museum and she's looking at a painting of Saint Sebastian with all these arrows through his body and she said like, what does this represent? What's the artist trying to capture and then she said oh I it's dating. I'd love to hear from from each of you kind of. Have a whole bunch of different questions but but here's one question that I want to ask is what is standing out for people that you talked to these days the most let quick break because sometimes you just got engaged your brain in a different way, right? You've all heard me talk about best beans right now but I seriously can't get enough of it. This awesome mobile puzzle game is so much more than any other games out there. It's five star rated with over one hundred million downloads, thousands of fun levels, and of super cute characters to collect. Am now on level two, eight YEP working my way up. They've created a whole world right on my phone. It's bright and colorful with great classics and there's a story all about these. Blood characters best means is seriously the perfect way to take a break in between meetings engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of characters trust meet with over one hundred, million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best beans free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends with our best beams now back to the show. What is standing out for people that you talk to these days the most. These days in the time of Krona virus can or the days in twenty twenty? Both good questions and The answers would be really different to. Let's go with with both went both okay. Intake free post world there. Really I I really believe that when it comes to modern dating this with or without Corona virus that I think there are a lot of blurred gender lines, which is one of the main themes that we've been seeing, and because of the blurred gender alliance I think there's just they're spending a lot of confusion on what is expected of your potential suitors, and that's what creates a lot of the miscommunication.

00:40:21 - 00:45:03

Even these dating terms I keep coming up like ghosting and Brett crummy. But today we learned a new dating dating term called Zapping, which is dumping over zoom. A. First. Date, on our facebook group like, is it better to be dumped or ghosted? Overall sided Zonta better because especially a virus, you're not like lactating of someone is ill or something like that. It's just clear that they do not want to be with you. Porn. And Julia you have a lot a lot of learnings to for just modern dating in general. Yeah. I think we'll be let's stick with the precursor on fire. I will go into post. I think the biggest thing stamp that stands out for me is that anything goes this day and age like I think in past generations, there was a very clear path that people took. It was like have relationships that's monogamous get married have children. One linear path for the majority and I think what's been happening in modern dating is that we are given the ability to create the relationships we want in people are really starting to question a lot of those norms especially because. Our generation is kind of a byproduct of divorce and I think we've seen relationships that haven't gone well under that like pre notion of Moscow a certain way. So people have been really exploring different avenues whether that's like Kali, emery or being sexual or whatever might be like it's really people are not afraid to go out in experiments and I think that's actually something that's really wonderful about our generation but also it's a challenge because I think there's just so many options and sometimes people get confused in. It's actually kind of like not a bad thing if you're confused because we've. Seen people on our podcast that are like, okay, I haven't had great. There's one woman that standing out for me. That's like I haven't had great experiences with men I'm GONNA try dating a couple I'm GONNA try opening my bumble to women and just see what happens and she actually found love with women and explored sides of herself in then realized like full circle that she actually really was attracted to men in. I. Think that that could sound confused to some people but I think it's really just extending the space to explore your south and modern dating allows us to do that. So interesting in the thing the things that each of you said really are connected because because you're kind of. These trip wires of taboo and entering into a new space, which is both wonderful and scary, and and also really confusing. A yeah, and just kind of like thinking about both of those parts. It's easy to get scared right like it's easy to like WanNa venture into something new like, Oh, I'm attracted to this person of attracted to this situation, but that doesn't fit in with what feels like home or safe to me, but I want to go ahead with it but then the fear comes up the confusion comes up and what do people tend to do with that in each of those arenas that you both describe the shape in the form of a relationship, but also like gender identity stuff and I just got to take one minute and say that I am constantly tortured by relationship teachers who say men you have to be Alpha men or women who don't forget your femininity you can't let go of your feminity or you won't find your Alpha Guy. It's just it's agony and I think that happens more for less for younger folks. I think to relate back to your museum analogy can. I think what people are feeling right now is that they're going through museum and they're taking this map that their ancestors have passed home and said, you should follow this path. To get to the exit or whatever the Nirvana is and everyone's ripping up these maps thinking okay. I don't want to take that path because I don't believe that that's where the route I should take. But what's that what is causing is they don't know where to go next which Ryan should I explored next art should I look at next in. So what everyone's doing is they're just throwing themselves into rooms of art into feel does just see how I feel. So it could be like a room full of naked art. How does this make me feel right now? Full of Biblical Art.

00:45:03 - 00:50:15

How does this make me feel right now in I think what's happening right now especially during time of quarantine is that people are trying to digest and and analyse how they're feeling because I think daters for so many years have just tried to try to experiment and going to these different pats but now's the time they're quiet time to say, how did these rooms really make me feel and then what is my next step? I think that's so dead on because I. think that is the challenge with all this is that there's like. Analysis paralysis basically don't do anything and we heard with we talked to another author that basically was saying how a lot of times people would say they want relationships but because they were in the right place financially or they hadn't explored their career to the maximum yet or they weren't for the person they wanted to be or they didn't do whatever they're trying to get to the next level but the problem with that is you're never one hundred percent. So it's like when do you just take the chance dive in with someone and kind of evolved together versus? Time to figure it out on your own in weeding for that like perfect moment that's just never going to come. So I think that's been a challenge for people is overcoming all these options all the self reflection into sneaking lake moves like we've talked about the only way to really understand relationships is to get into relationships and that could be like a month relationship three months released. It doesn't need to be years and years. That's the best way to really understand what you want oppose to kind of just getting into this decision making that doesn't go anywhere. Exactly. Yeah. Oh this so much in this. Is Making me think of a million things but one is making me think of is the vulnerability of the person who is in that new room ready and then gets a Newbie who's frightened and right. It makes me think of gay men having a relationship with a newly out. Game or gay woman especially like if it come other person comes from a religious tradition that kind of claws at them in grabs at them in terms of guilt and and all of that, and I remember a gay male friend of mine We were just hanging out in his room and he said so okay. So I am lying on this bed and. Everyone has to start out in the closet and when they're ready to come out and make the decision to fully come out then they join me in bed but not until then had been so disappointed. So many times and so so yeah, there's a little bit of a risk for that person who's kind of I guess there's really a risk for both there's A. Risk for the person taking the new step, and there's a risk for the person who's done that are and that kind of risk is beautiful in a way. It's scary but it's wonderful and we know that risk sparks aeros than Eros is sparked that needs to jump a gap. So like something sexy about taking risks. Yeah. Think about it sort of our approach to. Romance and love lives are kind of trailing behind how we approach life in general because I think if you look at millennials in younger generations, they are motivated to try nontraditional lifestyles that are motivated to not have a career and they're motivated to not possess an things yet when it comes to their love lives, it's a little bit delayed. So I think now it's. Up where I think people are thinking in that manner of okay, how do I take risks my love live and how do I think in a nontraditional way without imposing all these expectations from society or my ancestors? Ever may be and I think we are getting to that tipping point of everyone wanting to make these these decisions and and take the risk. They just don't know how is just rising the tools I. think that's a really good point to our conversation just a few minutes ago of like how much self-analysis do versus take action and I don't think it's one or the other I think you do need to. Actually, get in touch with yourself. I think there's a mistake people make dating over and over again, never taking time to stop reflect either and we always talk about the importance of therapy in just like getting to the root of what you're really looking for in life and all that. But I think you have to balance that with also being willing to be vulnerable and get hurt and take those chances and. Yeah, I think that's kind of maybe the culver bullet is like, how do you? Get to a place that you're feeling self confident enough and you don't need a partner, but you're willing to make room for someone in really take a risk with it because what we see. I. Think this is maybe the biggest challenge that people face is that everyone wants to just be like half in mcvay never want to admit that they had a great time or tell that person that this was like such a great date or they really Ma'am or whatever, and they're always trying to lay cool like an.

00:50:16 - 00:55:22

Early like. We we actually just did like a lop is blind experiment on our podcast in we saw with both of the people that ended up going on a date is they basically were like, yeah, it was good like I would see them again. But if it doesn't work out, I won't be devastated and I actually think that approach might be the most dangerous because it just puts you in this middle limbo you're not taking a chance either way. Yeah. We all we also talked about this on your episode. Can we had you on a Yes for some reason we're in this competition to show the least interest in the person and shows the least interest wins somehow, and that's just baffling to me because that's not how relationships work I blame bad books for that more. Sure. There is like bad why men love bitches or whatever that would that. Would teach you to do exactly what you just said. You think there is that ingrain -ment especially in people that are kind of like crossing. That may be elder millennial line of like the way of thinking in the old way of thinking I think a lot of struggle with should I play these rules that I was once told where younger people are like, what are you guys talking about Yeah and and the bad part of when we do that is when we suppress our enthusiasm, it turns into a frozenness or a secret neediness or more likely both and those are not great places and that's the because I think that's like another thing is that like I mean I think we all have all different kinds of circuitry of attraction and I know that I could be attracted to you know in my past but still you know the just the experience of traction like it's easy to be attracted on all different levels to someone who feels a little bit withholding. There's a lot there but there's a lot not given yet. There's something where you want to win that person over and I know that. Kind of circuitry of attraction, and it was like where I spent many decades of hell. For finding my husband but then there's another thing is I could be deeply attracted to someone who really goes out on a limb in showing me how much he cares how much she likes me and sexually emotionally really gets vulnerable that is sexy to it's risky, but it's really sexy exactly I. Think one of the things that we've at least for me has been the most fascinating. Our podcast is we do these. We've done a bunch of these days experiments where we hear two different perspectives of the. War just like couples, stories or just anything that's like double perspective and I think when you're dating, you forget that there is another person there. That has even before you especially, if you've gone on what one or two dates, how many hours of you really spent with this person for Max, it's like you have no idea what's going on in their lives and I think we tend to think and I definitely was guilty of this like in my twenties and eat needy even like early thirties thinking like I was the center of the world and if they weren't lasting need back, it meant that they like knee and it took like I think when you play the And you're like I'm going to hold off on C. Tax me and all that it doesn't actually get to the root of what's happening in their lives and it just. Makes this push pull that doesn't do anything. It doesn't move this forward and I think like, for example, we had. In our past guest of ours someone at our facebook group saying that he got ghosted during quarantine like useless virtual hike date in the girl dislike. fell off the face of the universe and I point to him was like, why don't you just reach out and tell her that you were really looking forward to the because they had one virtual date that I guess what? Really? Well, which he said it was the best connection. He's had in a long time in it's like, what is the harm in? Reaching out and saying like, Hey, how're things going like I was really looking forward to this date especially right now when covid nineteen is rampant like there's so many external things happening in people's lives like dating might not be at the forefront for our right now especially, if they're dealing with health things are family or whatever it may be. So why not? Give this person the benefit of the doubt in try to come from a place of understanding in putting yourself at least out there little like what are you really have to lose that point while so I just WanNa take that put it in a little like on a little I don't know what a little pedestal, a little advice pedestal. That's really. That's really big and really actionable and I know it's really true I mean when I met my husband, he was with his two kids I was with my one kid I was like really available and looking, and he had his hand hands full with his girls and so he blew me off on I would say one point five of our dates and I gave up by was like all right I got to be the adults here.

00:55:22 - 01:00:04

I give up and then one night I woke up bolt upright with this feeling like if I don't go out of my way I'm gonNA lose this opportunity. So I did and I just think what you said is a lesson to everybody like it's really worth it to take that extra step of vulnerability I mean you're not going to keep doing it right the person's not interested but not trying could be such a loss for just the reason you said so. Right now, if you're not with them, what do you have to lose by retail one more time? It's the same situation you're in now. There is a line like I don't think someone should reach out every day not hearing back like I. Think my personal take like the one time role. It's the one time benefit of the doubt. Let me just the road out there be as vulnerable as I can just the fact of how it's affecting me in that like comfortable place of log nod accusing either in baby. For the world. A love that and and I just have to go back to like the action ability of the first thing you talked about the that both of you talked about which is so you you're doing online dating what are the parts of yourself that might not fit into the gender stereotypes you think she should be showing, but you kind of feel. can you put that out in your profile? Can you put it out with the new person you're meeting and what kind of stuff are you interested in sexually form of relationship even maybe like all right I'll try meeting someone who's in a different country or a different state or outside of my age Ranger High Ranger weight range or maybe someone who has a different kind of education like like that kind of thing of like, let me stretch and play a little bit in very real ways because we could do that. So concrete. So I just I really just think like what fabulous invitations those two things are to a richer dating life. That's a really great scenario you just present it. To because we get this question a lot what should I divulge on my dating profile what should I say that's off limits on a first date and our answers always there shouldn't be anything that's off limits if it's important to you love it and I I think what a lot of people do on their dating profiles or when they meet someone in person is a talk about their dealbreakers which I eating is so detrimental for any relationship because dealbreaker means it's an absolute thing like you there's no budging you are absolutely not GonNa like someone because of this thing and it makes you come off very close minded. So what we always advise people is in your profiles instead of saying you're deal. Were what you like what about listing things you don't know about, but you're curious about. I actually have no idea if I like travelling to. India, bio put that in my profile because I'm curious to know and then able to attract people who can say actually I've been to India. Let me tell you about the experience and it just you seem very open minded and fluid in. So many ways that's beautiful. Things can come out of it. So these are the kinds of pieces of dating advice that people don't get to hear love that. That's so great. I gotTA stick with this from minute because so many people are doing online dating. So from all of your experience and of your thinking and reflections, tell us more about kind of other ideas or tips or suggestions for for making online dating a richer more effective experiences like what if you learned what have you heard that you really liked just anything like that these tips are gold and the kind of things you do not get to hear. I think like just sticking with profiles for now but I think online dating go much further than that clearly but just. Continue on that or second I. Think one thing that because we actually do like profile reviews with some of our listeners, they're interested in doing that service and I actually had a really interesting conversation with someone recently, and they had a lot of photos for example of them doing extreme adventure challenge. In one thing I comment to them was how important is this in your life? Is this something that is like make or break if you don't. Have a partner that's going to do this with you that wouldn't make you happy or is this kind of like, Oh, a nice to have or something I did once or twice or kind of just using this photo because I think I should have this extreme photo in there to look cool or whatever may be yeah.

01:00:04 - 01:05:07

I think from a female perspective for someone that isn't like super adventurous travel type of person my thought was this feels a. Little intimidating and I guess where I kind of came to him was when people are looking at your profile, they're trying to imagine a life with you. They're not trying to say, Oh, that guy looks cool. Does he did this crazy hike in? Oh, would I feel could I see myself being in this person's life and that's why I think it comes down to how important is this and to the point of if this really is something. That you need in your life, and if you had a partner that wasn't than by all means, keep that in your profile if it's not what really came out of my conversation with him, he's like I don't actually really care. If I do this for the partner I've done this maybe like once or twice in my life than my advice was to lose that photo. So I think it really comes down to looking through it as lens of. Building. A. Partnership with someone not showing off in your profile. Yeah. That's such a great one. Julie I. It's like you guys stop with the fake news it comes to your profile. I think everyone feels like they have to have a certain photos one to show that there are active to show that they're as interests and they like to travel want to show the sensitive side another one to show them in a group setting. So they're social and fun that that is not the formula you need to. You need to follow in order to attract a partner because everyone has the exact same set of photos, stop spreading the fake news and just use the photos that are quintessentially who you are. You can't find those photos. It means you don't know who you are, why not spend the time to figure. Out who you are I it just a it's it's crazy to me that amount of people who come to us for dating advice on their dating profiles and that they'll push back and say, but I heard that you're supposed to have one where you're half smiling. But I heard that you're supposed to have one when you're outside and like your hair's. Flowing you're doing, you're jumping shop like, where are you getting this news because that's not you you're having somebody else tell you who you are. That's just fake news. So out with it in that goes back to this balance again of taking the time to get to know leaguer self before you're just going and going and going to find someone else versus. Out who you are, what's core to you and then making a plan and acting on it, this is beautiful and I just want to kind of like do this thing of extracting to really really actionable things out of this one is this kind of theme concept of that. What you're trying to do in writing your online profile is give a sense of what it would be like to have you in their life in someone's life what it would be like to have a life with you and to have that as kind of a way that you're thinking and I love that. And then the other thing is that for your photograph that that what you're thinking about is what really shows me and I'm just so certain that those pictures will have more punch and more magnetism and more attract ability for the right people. So so I love those those things and I just WanNa say anybody who wants help with their profile this is a wonderful place to go is to Julie and you because so many people will push you to be witty and Push you to be cool and push you to be all these different things and those are not the profiles that you wanNA write. You want to read the profiles like like they're both saying that are really you yeah I I would just say that so many people right. Their profiles trying to appeal to the masses like it's a presidential campaign and you were only thinking about only writing your profile for them. One person that is the person for you try stop trying to. Build. As many matches as possible. You're not like trying to track thousand people here, and in fact, it's not a popularity contest. All it takes is just one person so. Huge this is huge. That's so important. A love that. Yeah, because people get. So hung up on him, not getting enough matches and I get it that you need a Nov volume coming in because you just don't know where people are at. But also just getting a ton of quantity that's not going anywhere isn't really solving your problem either. I think that's really true and also I just WanNa say especially for women who were be over fifty and and say constantly I. Don't get that many responses and you know the kind of thing of so many guys who are in that age range in older only what younger women and are Kinda like kid in a candy store immature. There's really a lot of that going on and and and so you might not get as many matches but and in the work that I do with.

01:05:07 - 01:10:01

People as people kind of really become their more essential self as they tune the radio dial to them to that dial, they may find less people they. There may be less people, but those people will be more resonant kinder more available that just is the kind of when people do what you're describing. Somehow the kind of people they meet and the kind of people that are drawn to them begin to change, and there's a dignity and integrity to what you are saying that I think comes across. You know what you have A. We have a belief that isn't always popular like people always say that it's a numbers game. emetic is nodded numbers kept. K- well can you you? You'RE POPULAR OPINION WITH US Three about. there. Are More people out there that agree but I think we both with so many people that go on date after date after date in they don't go anywhere and I know even for myself like in my twenties when tinder first came out, I was going on like three to four days a week and they never went past a couple days and I think it's a trap. When you think that just you need to fill your funnels in the more the more the better and. Think what we've seen to is we had one person that we didn't exit interview. One of our favorite podcast episodes we called look one guy came to us and said I've been on hundreds of I states his hinge hinge account was so full. I've never seen someone with more matches in my entire life, but none of them went to second date. And we actually ended up calling five of his past deeds to hear like what would what happened so. Interview. At work in it was I opening in fascinating and he thought he was getting rejected time and time again. But most of the girls actually were Willie wanted to go out with him again but he was projecting his own insecurities of rejection onto them and like for example, a waiter came by and said do as one another drink in he said no. So the girl obviously thought he was not interested at all but in his mind he was feeling like she was not into it or shit get relief for work the next day. So I think it is. It is not all about the numbers. It's about having a genuine connection in also putting yourself out there truly and being vulnerable in taking those steps. I really agree I really agree So I would love to ask you both a bunch of questions I mean there's just there's so much I want to extract because you're in such a unique position of really hearing people's stories in a conscious way and thinking about them, reflecting on them, assessing them, weaving them all together I mean it's just kind of an amazing grid of experience and reflection. So I wanNA, really extract more of these goodies and I just want to ask you like a few. Semi questions. Okay. Okay Great. So so here's one question. In all of your episodes were you've talked about sex. What's one thing for each of you that stands out as either very moving or very important that you heard or learned. For me personally we've actually spoken to a few sex experts sexpert I you could call. And all of them have said it is our time to reclaim our own pleasure. Yes. So I think if you really step back and think about it the media. Has Really owned our pleasure for so many years talk about a we should enjoy sex we should. We should enjoy this kind of sex and pornography has dictated what we think pleasure should be, and if we really step back from from our that pleasure that media has portrayed for us. End. Really separate that from what we believe is pleasurable. Then we're able to seek the ultimate pleasure for ourselves and that when it comes to sex is having sex with yourself war in exploring yourself more at this is one of the most eye opening conversations I had was. I spoke to this friend of mine who's in her early twenties and she's a virgin and she said I'm so confused about sex right now because all learn about sex growing up in sex ED was how to not have sex or how to have safe things but I was never taught how to enjoy sex. So I'm going to spend the next two or three years exploring myself and figure all the toys that can use.

01:10:01 - 01:15:00

So I know how to pleasure myself. I love that. That's just great. I one hundred percent agree with that I need to set those been definitely takeaways I. Had I think the other big one that's come from sexpert. So we've talked to is people are so open or we stress open communication so much right just about what's happening in the relationship in there is also the sex positivity that's happening that people are more comfortable talking about sex but for whatever reason, a lot of times were hesitant to talk about what's not happening or not going well in our sex lives with our partners like they're still walking on eggshells feeling like I can't discuss this with them. A blame situation or something to that sort and I even found myself. I had a friend that came to me asking just like for some advice in her relationship at just things weren't going during well, I had trouble bring myself to ask her like what her sex life was like with him and I think I was thinking about why did I have such trouble in? There's this feeling that. So private that I can't share it and I can't talk about. In. The Doctor Alexandra Solomon who is a professor at northwestern for very popular marriage one, one class in like author at all that she said something that is really stopped with me for a while is like it doesn't need to be like A. Or Shame, and that's why we have so much because we're not willing to put it out there and look at how we can solve this together. It doesn't need to be like you're doing something wrong or I'm doing something wrong and especially like if we have different sexual desires like it doesn't always have to be so black and white like if one person is more vanilla, the other person is more. Into kink like maybe there is something that you can start to explore together or also maybe there's a way they can find that I'm outlived elsewhere like with the way again, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier of people just defining their own relationships more doesn't have to be just something that were prescribed to thrum. What we've learned in taught is a relationship. So the same goes. For sexuality like how can you explore together and bring down the barriers in? Make it something that doesn't happen Lamer Shane I love that I. Love that you know it's making me think about on how we've all been to some degree traumatized around sex like maybe it's for some people it's multi trauma for some people it's large drama, but we've all been traumatized by the kind of shaming and lack. Of insight and openness and the the kind of whole cultural context of secrecy around sex. We've all been traumatized and one the hallmarks of trauma is black and white thinking the more trauma, the more black and white thinking, and so you're describing kind of like moving ourselves away from black and white thinking around talking and experiencing our sex life and I love that because that helps reduce in heal trauma. We were actually I. Remember we talked about this. The episode two, we had a live show and we had a gas. We have at our live show. We had a someone that was there ask a question about road. May Be butchered Me January. It's different, but it was something around. If. If I sleep with him too soon. We'll. He judge me or like should I sleep with a man on the first date? Is it okay to sleep with someone on the first Riley? That's what it was in the women's question, right? Yeah and I. Think it actually really surprised us in this day and age because. I think so much has been broken down with that but I also feel like there is still at peace out there that there this feeling like this old rules I must follow in I. Think when we talked about this too on episodes Dr Alexandra solomon-like her point was the fact that it's coming from. Am I doing something wrong? That's the true problem like it should be coming from a place of like I want to pursue my sexual south in at that point that. Is when you make the decision like is this something I want to do for myself or not? There says if I do this, what outcome would have with this other person huge huge so that when your question is, should I be sleeping with this person now it's not how am I gonNa look doing this. It's what right to me what really feels organically right at the moment and let me say that if you're intoxicated your answer won't be as clear as if you're not. To who? From experience can. Own.

01:15:01 - 01:20:05

Personal experience experiences a therapist and it's just it's so easy to WanNa like drink or get high in early dating because it's so anxiety producing. Okay. So here's another question. If you think about your years of being hosts on your podcast, I would just like to ask you to think about like one story that stands out right now that just feels kind of like like like it really hits you at this moment maybe it was really touching or really important but somehow stands out just one story from from you would love to hear whatever comes. So hard Julia have one. Do you want me to go first you go I take. It you know. We get this question a lot and I feel like my answer changes depending on what mood I'm in. So today I'm in this. Of Journey and having a having a journey where where you don't end up where you thought he would. So on season eight episode nineteen, we had a guy on a Brian Van Doozer who's any a friend of mine? And it's called quest for love with Ryan Van Doozer, and this story sticks out to me because he is someone who on the surface level you would think he was a he was a player. You would think he's such a party animal he he is just so happy and like he can get along with anybody flirts with all kinds of girls all the time but deep down, he is sucked a romantic and he wants to find love so bad and in this interview, he talks about all of his failures I guess I wouldn't. Even call failures but experiences of trying to find love and having a not workout. But in the end, what you don't see you so much on the surface level, you just know him as like on a social scene is he still believes in love after all these years he still believes he's GonNa find true love and he will not stop at anything to find it and it's so inspirational because this guy truly believes he's on a journey to find love and through all the experiences he's had so far. It's bring him that much closer. I love that episode that was definitely one of I I. Yes that's beautiful. That's very touching and kind of like connected to the theme of what we're talking about is then that it's Kinda. Like scratching the surface of the way we think people are there's a lot more underneath and a lot more possibility a lot more vulnerability underneath. So I love that story and I imagine that he is like a lot of your listeners and my listeners. You know what I kind of agree with you that depending on my mood. Change. So I'M GONNA. Keep something that's related to this conversation to is we had on season six. I believe it was called Jesse yes. In we had our guest. Cheryl who was super single shoes in DC. At the time no real prospects and she what can I do to really shake up my dating life and she'd always been kind of like had this list of things to look for in all that in she got inspired I forget exactly how she came to this maybe she heard it. On like a podcast actually knocks podcasts weren't around back them like on a booker t. v. show or something, but she basically had this idea that she would just say yet to whoever came into contact with her and her on a date. So she basically was going on dates with people that she would never have gone on dates with before like a really helped her I think first of all, she did it as an experiment for a month just to see what her mindset ended up coming out after being and she a few things I think team to surface for her is it really did actually help her get clear about what she was looking for. In a partner because she had so many people that she was interacting with and people that she might have dismissed earlier because of whatever superficial things I think she said like emanate fighter someone that she would never come in contact with in she actually found him to be like really sweet and sentimental. So it was things again that wasn't on the surface that she would not have even got the chance to look at if she hadn't been so open but the other big thing that happened for her was that men were really coming out of the woodwork like nothing else changed her daily life like she was a teacher. So is in a predominantly female environment. She didn't change her leg. She didn't lose weight. She didn't change your hairstyle like nothing like that but she was getting hit on like so many more times than she ever had her life in.

01:20:05 - 01:25:03

It was the energy that she was putting out there in eventually it actually led her to her husband who she is now married to a kid in she was also because she had all this experience. From this experiment, she was able to see the he was the first guy to that really like asked her for example, like are you dating other people like one to know if he was the only person in the running and started to also talk about life that they could share together things that she knew now from so many other people at work coming into conversation that this was a keeper. God. I love that one as I. think that episode was so inspirational on so many levels because a lot of times we think Oh, were once this happens then I can do this like were waiting for stuff to happen or waiting for milestones by she just proves to you that she can take hold of her own life. She is in control and she wait for anything to happen she things happen right like she like I feel like I've definitely found guilty of this too. It's like, Oh, I must lose ten pounds and then I can go back onto the dating scene. It. It doesn't work that way usually no one notices except for you. Totally two totally totally true. That was an amazing story. These were both amazing stories and I think that they like captured the whole theme of of this conversation, which was something about like the magic of openness, the risk, the scariness and how openness actually changes. The field are magnetic field, our internal state that commitment to kind of openness changes things so true. Yeah, I think that's like it's interesting because our podcast we've evolved over the years that we've been doing this I think both you and I thought initially like Oh it's just fun podcast where we hear people's stories reason. kind of like we didn't even expect to learn that much from it like we kind of thought like a we'll just share like funny dating stories in offers here it is evolved to just being this platform where we look at things just like an open a new perspective in like hear different perspectives different experiences allows you to really dislike. The way that you approach dating and that's where it's been. So fascinating how it's evolved. And that is why it's such a delight to get to speak with you both because you both are going back to the museum image, you both are curator's your curator's of news stories of insights of what's going on on the front lines, the inside lines, and you're you do that in a way that is really thoughtful. So there's very few people doing that. So so the information that. You have is really really gold and you got to write a book about this because like your perspective is just you know who else has that who else is approaching these questions with such thoughtfulness and with so many stories. So I, feel like I would love to have you both back at a later point because I want to extract more wisdom and insight stories from you and. I can yeah. It's a deal. On. The book is on the plan. So don't worry. Good that to quote the great can page when he was on our show everyone listening he said splurge for love is a big ass journey and I will always remember that quote because it's so true. It's a big journey. It's never ending. We're always constantly learning and that is the beauty of finding love. Absolutely well, it has been a complete joy to have you both on the show I can't wait to continue this conversation but could you tell us a little bit about how people could get in touch with you and all of this is going to be in the show notes all these links and everything will be in the show notes but we'd still love to hear from you every way that people could get in touch with you and what they could get in touch with you for. Share. I mean like the starches just our podcast is available pretty much every major platform. So Apple podcasts, spotify stitcher radio overcast like pretty much any podcast player that you want to go to. That's the best way to get in touch with us. But also on instagram were at dateable podcast and we also have a new facebook group to called love in the time of corona been really really interesting especially as we're going through something. So different in is going to change our dating lives even once this is over. Beautiful beautiful and and you had said that people could work with you on their profiles correct. Yeah, we also offer curated coaching so you can do profile reviews with us or you can choose one of the coaches that we've. Specifically picked for dateable dateable listeners.

01:25:03 - 01:29:34

Yes. Your website, it's all on there. So dateable PODCASTS, dot com, and then on dateable PODCAST DOT COM, slash coaching is where you can find that and we're also always looking for submissions for stories. So if you want have their own experience because I think what is a little different about our podcast we talk to experts, but we also talk just real active hers that are going through their own stuff end. We love hearing different stories so he would submit them through dateable podcast dot com slash story. Fantastic fantastic and Is there anything that each of you would like to say in closing just two last closing thought? Well I. Think. My my closing thought is in this is from many of our guests we've learned this lesson is that you have to go through the trenches to find gold and that's The journey to find love is that when you feel like you're in the trenches when you feel down and you feel like you're in a dark place, just know that you're meant to be there and you're going to get through it but you have to go through it there no hacks no shortcuts and you just have to feel these feelings experience what you're experiencing right now, and then you will come out of it. Really good one I think like the one that I always in we've talked about kind of throughout this whole thing it's a balance of your own self work in your own self love in also relating with others in getting into relationships, it can't be one or can't be the third needs to be a combination of both but I think if you don't do the self work than it makes being in a relationship early difficult because you don't actually know how to state your needs you don't know how to have that healthy communication and. You don't know how to actually work with someone and I think at the end of the day the most successful relationships that we've either experts or heard people in them or we've experienced ourselves is when two people are committed to making it work into being open as a team to like figure out how to make things better for both partners and it's not one person versus the other. It's not I feel this way you feel this way let's like, how do we solve this together in make a relationship that works for both of us. I love that I. Love both of these points and and they're so key and they're beautiful and having you both on the show was just an absolute delight. Thank you so much for having us. Amish. Thank you. Thank you both and. I want to thank everybody for listening to Julie and the dateable podcast, and if you want to get a transcript of this complete episode, just go to deeper dating podcast dot com. I encourage you to join my mailing list and you'll get a free e book as well as the first two chapters of my book deeper dating, and so thankful to everybody in the listening community for being here. See You all on the next episode of the deeper dating podcast. And that's it. For today's episode of deeper dating. Be sure to go to deeper dating podcasts dot com as Ken has of you more gifts for you. Then join us on the next episode. dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts want to continue the conversation I, follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tag any post with a Hashtag stay dateable and trusts us. We look at all those posts. Then head over to our website dateable podcasts, dot com there you'll find all the episodes. Articles Videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect, analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums Roseau downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast, Google play overcast stitcher radio, and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.

Dateable Podcast
Yue Xu & Julie Krafchick

Is monogamy dead? Are we expecting too much of Tinder? Do Millennials even want to find love? Get all the answers and more with Dateable, an insider’s look into modern dating that the HuffPost calls one of the ‘Top 10 podcasts about love and sex’. Listen in as Yue Xu and Julie Krafchick talk with real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes, and first moves to first loves. Whether you’re looking to DTR or DTF, you’ll have moments of “OMG-that-also-happened-to-me” to “I-never-thought-of-it-that-way-before.” Tune in every Wednesday to challenge the way you date in this crazy Dateable world.