S10E5: Millennial vs. Gen Z dating

Dateable Podcast
March 10, 2020
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March 10, 2020

S10E5: Millennial vs. Gen Z dating

We got a Gen Z in the house! Listen as we talk to Zoe about what it's like to date as someone who’s been using digital technology their entire life.

Millennial vs. Gen Z Dating

We got a Gen Z in the house! Listen as we talk to Zoe about what it's like to date as someone who’s been using digital technology their entire life. We discuss the traditional tendencies of this generation, the different patterns with dating apps, and the challenges that don’t seem to ever go away.

Thank you to our partners for this episode:

Flutter: Download this new dating app that only works on Sundays with matches and messages expiring at midnight to move the convo offline. Currently available in the Bay area (but expanding soon):

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Episode Transcript

Season 10 Episode 5: Millennial vs. Gen Z dating

00:00:00 - 00:05:03

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Everyone welcome to another episode of the dateable. Podcast a show all about modern dating. Admittedly I do feel like. I'm very out of touch with John's ears. Oh Yes 'cause we're eligible the fifth amendment early pushing the edge of being a millennial. I actually think I the last year where you can be a millennial so I feel very disconnected from early. Twenty year olds and teenagers. I have no idea where they're going through. And that's probably why we decided to do this episode because most of our listeners in gas are twenty five to forty ish that's usually like our average age range so I think we are missing that under twenty five representation as much their voice. We've had a few twenty five year olds. I don't think we've Dick under twenty five eighty. Maybe you might think Oh. Twenty two to twenty five is not a big difference. It's actually if I change so much. Think back think just graduated college. It's like a whole different world also now compared to when we graduated college like there's so much difference curled of difference and I can only guess what John's ears are going through but I want. I can't imagine growing up with screens already exactly because we definitely did not have no and growing up with Internet easily accessible for you whenever you want. I can't imagine growing up and going to college when dating apps or Mardi meet someone randomly at apart and they like. What are your tender on your right. I can't I can't imagine growing up and a world where there youtube stars making millions of dollars. Yeah do makeup tutorials to be famous like you go to college and you're like what's your career trajectory to be Julie. Sabine INFLUENCE OUR DR. Two different things because you could be famous not an influence. Arjun Ziara resident Gen zero on episode was like a doctor medical actually wants to but maybe like an influence doctor who knows. I think all JEN's ears will have their influencers side and they'll have their occupation or something and then and also I also can't imagine growing up in a world where you literally are told. You can be anything you want now. I think what was interesting about this too is like we hear. There's so many articles about Jen's ears right but it's an interesting address in the episode. Also but a lot of agency workers are under twenty. Two is the upper source of fifteen right. So it's hard to get dating trends of like fifteen year old. You know so. It was interesting not again not to say that. Zoe represents every JEN's ear by no means but it was interesting to hear just a day in the life of her dating life. How much of it was different because of what you just mentioned growing up with screens and being a different generation versus just a product of being in your twenties in College Right. Una College verses not and I also WanNa see all the research that was done on us when we're in our early Chinese the word millennial I doubt and all the research studies of the millennials the biggest sluts aquaculture and. They're all going to die from St is or whatever it's just so it's so funny to think like that's just how we lived. We didn't know any better but there's researchers who actually study art behavior moods fascinated as because there is this feeling. Matt Jen's ears are more traditional and that's like one of the trends. That's coming out but I don't know about you. I felt like Sh- zoe episode deceived so rich richer. Yeah I was at the siege. Hot Mess a twenty two. She has a fricken podcasts. Debbie that's already like five steps ahead of means like thinking about like her whole life trajectory grill. We asked her on the podcast but I think it was like a lot deeper than I would have been able to answer that age shuts her damn share. I think we should bring up the fact that this is just super interesting because sometimes we have guests on our show and we feel like we have a really good conversation with them and we have great rapport but then they might take away a different perspective. They might have thought that the conversation seemed Not so positive or seem like we were pushing the areas.

00:05:03 - 00:10:02

That were more sensitive. It happens in dating all the time to walk away from the same conversation taking away. Different things so in this situation Zoe did reposted episode on her podcast. She had described that. She didn't have a completely favourable conversation with us that we were judging 'cause we had asked her how she was. GonNa Manage Her wanting like the family the career like the whole nine yards and I think we brought up a few points like what happens. If that doesn't happen I mean I think both of us have come from years of experience of seeing things. Don't always play out the way that you think they are in and I think she took it. We were like kind of trying to put her down. I guess yeah and in hindsight if I think about it the worst thing you can experience when you're in your early twenties to encounter a dream crusher. I think maybe we were sort of playing that role a little bit. 'cause twenties you want to think the world is your waster. You want to be able to accomplish grand things and I think we were just trying to bring up. Bring back a little bit of reality. People need time and space to dream. It's a really tough calls. I see. There's definitely benefits of both sides right. You don't WanNa Make Oh. I can never do anything because you won't. That was kind of her point. Dume was I wanNA push myself to do everything and all of that. But you also don't want to be let down and I was actually talking to a CO worker of mine. Who's a mother issues like? My daughter thinks that she is going to like get the lead in the play. Like she's convey the lead in the play and I had to actually put her down a little on reality because I knew if she did not get that lead. She would be crushed. Yes Oh she had to play Alison area like. What if this doesn't happen? There are other people involved. Fide in her daughter actually ended up getting lead. Yeah and it's not because she said it to her because this was a subsequent conversation But she thinks that by saying it did help write in the load a little so while we shouldn't be dream crushers. It's not a bad thing to be a little realistic to yeah. I do think our conversation almost felt like a parent can because I have the exact same thought is what if I don't want you to be hurt to hurt if things don't pan out so let's think about plan. B. Or not. The not planned don't get don't do that. Don't have on and protect sex have to go to Walgreens L. dollars long-planned Vienna while the other conversation. But you have to think about. What are the alternatives? And what how can I mitigate might risk but in your early twenties you can afford not to think about these things because you can just pursue their dreams of also make mistakes and then just learn from him Brian. I think that is at the end of the day. It's like you WanNa be protective and helped someone. But they do have to just learn on their own. Yeah discover so well that was a glimpse into parenting. This podcast. All about relationships doesn't always a surly mean romantic relationships. It could be a relationship that we have with our guests absolutely and it's always interesting things pan out behind the scenes to how people walk away from our conversations but it's good to have an open communication about this because we can now think back like I'll probably could have delivered or presented this information different way or ass in a different way next time but at least also show. Our true intentions are positive. Ryo We want the best for everyone to but this was again a really fascinating conversation because I feel so far removed from this generation and she even brought up the fact that she was on apps she will like did not want to date. He'll say like she was saying that. Even though they had them at their disposal it was like booking like you were trying to put too much effort into finding a relationship. Obvious isn't that you have this tool but you don't want to use it. They're the first generation where only dating no longer stigmatize. It is so part of mainstream and everyday life that they don't even want to use it right and I think also we all experience the novelty of it and especially hitter that was like a Game Ryan. It's just been there. It's like something that they just don't even think about it. That's not interesting to to them. She a Zoe also talked about the dating fatigue. She experienced and how she's just taking a break right now and how she wants to be more intentional with day-to-day which is all very wise mature.

00:10:03 - 00:15:07

She was super odd years. Yeah exactly but this is also a good time to talk about where the opportunities are dating apps. I'll get to these to JEN's ears because they are dating fatigued they don't WanNa be swiping all day all night but yet they still want connection at a such a good tie into our partner. Plante it though. Clutter APP talk about that. A super excited that we're partnering with them is. I'm actually really excited about what they're doing. So it's every Sunday. That's the only time that you could talk in mattress. People in the idea is to keep it contained. So you don't have those conversations that just fizzle out in never go anywhere and the conversations expire at midnight that night. Yep so you only have twenty for a period to take that conversation. Offline which eliminates a lot of the unnecessary chatter and just unresponsiveness. The reality is if things don't progress within twenty four hours like they're gonNA progress. Yeah it's Kinda sports in you to do it in a good way. It's like if you went to like a bar or party. Met Someone. Yeah you kind of get their number or instagram or facebook. Whatever then you don't see them again. If you don't do that you miss that opportunity because focused attention right you kind of think Sunday my day to message and to answer into match into swipe so then you spend your energy doing that versus the APP is at your disposal the time. It's an afterthought on standing in line at starbucks. I'm sitting on the toilet Afterthought I'm just trying to kill time. This is more mindful. Yeah I could see it being like a social thing to get together on Sunday. If you're interested in Trae aflutter and you live in the bay area lucky for you and you have an apple phone. Download it from the APP store. They will be expanding out of the bay area soon this year. And also they'll be android ready soon as well. So just remember the the name. Flutter F. L. U. T. T. E. R. Dalit if you can right now. And every Sunday market on your calendar you can find some great matches yet and let us know. Because I think they're super fine and I would love jump people's thoughts on it. I wonder if so he would get on flutter we see we should draw relationship. I WanNa mend our relationship. It's like so we we just WanNa hang out so let's introduce our guest today for navy. Yeah that's together. Every Sunday. She is currently living in Boston. She's been there on an offer five years originally from L. A. She's twenty two years old in single actively going on dates but also dating fatigued as we found out from our episode with her Without further ADO or resident Jen's ear is here to tell us all about what she is experiencing her dating life. Here's Zoe we've been talking about dating you know in our emails back and forth but I like firm listeners to know about this idea of Gen Z. Dating obviously you're representing this entire generation. But what has your own dating experience been like? When did you first start dating with that? I would say in college honestly in high school. You do the occasional you know like let's let's go get. Let's go a coffee. Let's go you know. Go to Lemme grab a lunch but then it ends and I have my first boyfriend until I was in college. I think looking back on that relationship now honestly I was it was. I was such a tragic attempt at a relationship but it lasted a lasted about two years and so he was at your last serious relationship. It was yeah God I feel like I just threw shade at so many people though just feel if any of the people that I've dated are listening to this. We really wait a second. Like it's all in hindsight right while you're dating you could think it's going in that very serious rowden and may may not end up their exactly To be honest there was the one relationship that was just referencing. That's you know arguably a relationship two years and then there was another guy that I was in a quote unquote relationship with for also for mine and I say quote unquote. Because I wish it didn't happen and only four months and I feel like the combination of those two can Can you know you can get away with saying that? It wasn't relationships. I'm just going to go with the one. Why do you wish didn't happen? Vicariously has spy so my goodness. Here's the thing it was actually thinking about this the other day. I had the The first relationship where I was kind of you know he broke up with me three times first of all and took him back every time but the second relationship that I wish didn't happen he was.

00:15:07 - 00:20:04

He was the polar opposite of that he was. He was way too. Nice Nestle always tell my friends like do not do not get into a relationship with a guy just because he is nice and I think everyone has to make that mistake and for me like I get a little. I don't WANNA say sick to my stomach. That's so aggressive. But like I just look back on how you know how much he was into me. But like in a weird like non-relationship way in like how much time he always wanted to spend together and how we wouldn't leave my apartment like for an example when we did break up. He didn't leave my apartment for like two days and he would like because he said he didn't like have like an apartment to go home to which later I found out was a lie and he would call his parents in front of me crying about it. I'm the I'm sharing so many deeds but yeah I. Would he do look when you were dating? That made him never like such a great for you. Yeah best way to Kinda show. What kind of relationship it is I was. I think is through examples so one night one night. I go out with my best friend. We've known each other since high school and this is in. This is in college in so I kinda wanted. You know a night out with the girls. I'm like I didn't you know I was like okay. I'm gonNA come home later. He was at mine as usual. So I guess I got home one or two hours later than I said I would have And I come home. And he's cry okay because when I was gone. He said he was making we cookies. In the fact that I came home one or two hours later than I than I said I would made him feel unappreciated. But I genuinely think it's like if you cannot handle one night. You're you know girlfriend or boyfriend coming home. A little later than they said they would odd keeping in mind they were in contact with you the entire night than you're not in the right relationship or you're not ready to be in a relationship because that's honestly what broke it down. I think that if he was more open with me than we would've lasted longer conversely in the other relationship where he broke up with me three times I was guilty of the exact same thing but we were just. I think we had different experiences. So one hundred percent been the clingy one that the the distrusting won the crying over the cookies one. But you know I I saw. I saw what that did to the relationship and then I kinda got a taste my own medicine the second time around. So that's funny because I feel like I had the same experience at thirty five relationships in general right. That's how relationships are what's sad though is odd. Is that I in the first relationship where I was broken up with three times. I'm okay with telling people that was a relationship but in the relationship where you know I guess. The Guy Treated me like incest or whatever. I don't want to consider that a relationship that's why riot. Yeah exactly and we shouldn't have gone either. I think that's a pattern. A lot of US follow. Is that if we get out of a bad relationship or relationship where we were really hurt. We go the complete one eighty and find some very opposite person. And that's not actually how you find your partner if you don't you don't go one eighty or if like someone you didn't feel like they were in it as much as you did you are in you find someone that is like so over the top in it like the guy that made you all the cookies and then you realize like okay. I. It was okay but they might not have been like wanting to be with me every second of the day like I thought I needed for example. I think what is interesting about your description of these relationships? So he is that. It's so on rand for your generation. I've been reading so much about your people. Many many articles in sociologists have talked about how JEN's ears tend to stay away from the word relationship and even if it's a two month a year or five year you think it's a thing like you guys actually think relationships are really really serious. And you've seen like millennials the hurt from relationships that didn't work out so you tend to like try to stay away from that word that label as much as possible as for my generation like a two hour. Hang out could be relationship. I think end goals to be in a relationship more than it might be which I think So this is what I'm learning about. You guys that relationships have a lot more weight to win so instead of thinking about what is my end goal is more like it would take a lot for you to say that. This is a relationship. Do you find that Zoe. Like in you. And your friends dating patterns honestly I might be jaded by your generation as well.

00:20:04 - 00:25:02

Yes Ms Definitely our meals to you that the last person I was seeing was twenty nine definitely well out of Gen Z. And I have never seen anyone run away from the word relationship more than he can. So you guys that might be guilty of it too but also there's something to be said and it's my opinion honestly that about maybe an older person. That's so willingly and so frequently dating younger people. Maybe they just belonging Gen Z. And so maybe he was representing. Or maybe that's why he goes for JEN's years or younger people because you know they're more okay with it not being a relationship and I think that's why for me like I put up with not having relationships so for so long because all my friends are doing the exact same thing I think we're also on the cost of millennial lake we're on the higher side of malarial older as Elisa. Baker says a lot. I've noticed that younger millennials are more gun shy to relationships and we've also noticed that younger millennials very rarely meet in person anymore. Like we can still remember the day where you actually met someone at a bar and a lot of people that are in there like twenty mid twenties late twenties. I can't remember that or night just never experienced it. I'd be curious like from a Gen Z. Perspective like do you feel like how'd you meet? Yeah like is that a total foreign thing to you. Where's it GonNa let me tell you if you meet someone at a bar or in person? You're going around telling that story to everyone that you you're like we met at a legend. Yeah exactly for all people kind of maybe I don't know would be embarrassing. We met at a bar like we were drunk but for younger people my generation. It's like can you believe we met in person whole story when it boils down to you as we were drunk at a bar. I've told the whole I went there at eight. Pm and he was there at ten in the huge story. It's a romantic of suddenly such a romance. Kinda retro cool. You know back in the day. When I first started dating in my early twenties I guess it was like so weird of some to Mike met on match dot com. You believe a friend that the 'TIL HER WEDDING. I think actually passed her wedding. She said that her and her husband met at a bar and they naturally and the technically met it apart because they met there but come on yeah and now look at you guys like men. Are we met on Tinder? We'll dot okay so another question for you since you're still in college because I'm remembering the college days. This was way before eve at least for us. We're like totally dating ourselves. But like match dot com without. It was not something mainstream at all in a definitely was not for college kids. It was four like adults at wanted to get married e separate. Do you guys meet at parties? Like honey meet people or is it do used asks the same way that people out college. We'll do it so I would say a a solid sixty at least. That's like very very minimum. Like sixty percent of my friends have met their significant other on dating APPs or instagram. I I'm trying to think about how how people talk about it though. I think even if even though we all meet each other on dating apps like just the majority of us. I think. There's still a stigma around it. That might have to deal with the fact that I'm I'm older I honestly don't think so. I think more people are actually embarrassed about is the fact that or whatever they're trying to cover up the fact that they were actively searching out their partner where you know people usually like to kind of be more like oh it just happened because I was living my best live in focusing on my career. And that's how it happened and I don't think people like to show off the fact that they're actively searching for people and I always. I always tell my friends whenever they put down the dating APPS. Or when I've been like oh I don't know if I WANNA go back on it. I'm like listen. We do every feeing via our phones via the Internet. Whatever like whether it be groceries. School career like careers. Why would this one thing dating? Are you embarrassed to also do it online? It doesn't make any sense in fact the way that you sound. I think the way that we're going to be sounding people. Ten fifteen years from now is actually like grandparents grandparents back in my day. You know how they always do that. Okay whatever I feel like this. Is the loss like maybe people younger than me? People a little bit older than me. This is the last of the generations that's going to have that viewpoint. I think it's probably going to become more accepted that this is just something you can passively do online but I think right now people are still you still have that stigma that it's like such an active effort.

00:25:02 - 00:30:08

And I think that for them is like a little of ego weakening. Just someone. Why do I have to like seek someone out on this APP? Stay example. Yeah because it's like if you're searching for someone to today or for example like I right now even though I'm moving to London and I'm constantly always leaving as told you just because of my co OP program here. I always have it in the back of my mind that I wished I could get into relationships so every guy that I go on a date with I. I do see it as a possibility that we're GONNA get into a relationship but I will say that like on bumble you have the The opposite what are you looking for like are you rely for relationship hookup? And I'm like embarrassed the word to say I'm looking for a relationship because I feel like that's needy with reality. Yeah so what do you put? I don't I just leave that blank. I don't answer do you know says a Gen Z. Thing or do you think it's just like where you are at that stage because I'm thinking about myself in college and I was definitely not looking for relationships like I was looking to party like hook up with people like a lot of my friends in college like weren't in relationships and this is like for dating apps and all of that like if anything do think apps have made it more successful for college age kids to have relationships. You know what I think. It's done the opposite. I think it's more accessible but I think that it happens less frequently because there's just so many options like I was listening to Matthew Hussy on. I'm the school greatness the other day and he was talking about how these days you go on the dating APP and then you go out on a date and by the time the girl gets home she already has like five six other people that have matched with her. So you kind of lose that time that you go home reflecting on the date thinking about whether you like them thinking about what they sad kind of that build up that like when you start to like someone that feeling of thinking about them all the time and set your swiping on on bumble again for the people that you wanna meet next and so I feel like in that way. It's not help relationships but I think like it has tremendously helped the hookup culture which is already a problem. I already have an issue with. I was telling you guys earlier that I listen to podcasts. And it was the. Psa whole it was it was a guy. Say His name or just even know his name but he was talking about how all the different tactics that menus and and I've heard this before this I'm not singling out. I've heard my guy friends. Say these exact same things about the different tactics they use to you know. Get girls into bed to take part in hookup culture and I've never been a fan of it and honestly my take home while I'll try to keep it. Short is is that I don't think a lot of girls that say they're fans of it are actually fans of this. You know oh I'm just I'm China. Hook up just for fun. Just because of the physical pleasure of it I think that the hookup culture dating apps everything like that has forced girls to almost want to devalue sex in general because they're constantly being lied to her and I feel like the only way that in some cases they feel like they could save basis by is by saying that. That's they wanted as well. Obviously that's a huge blanket statement and girls also like sucks. But that's how I feel. That's what I've seen with my friends. You're actually just like all the other. Gin's ears apparently was reading this article about how I don't want to repeat the dating. Fallacies of their predecessors millennials. So they don't WanNa fall for boys and they WANNA be part of hookup culture therefore you guys are having will less sex than any other generation of you heard about the sex drought tonight. You're all having like you're all on the same page. It's like everyone's heard these tales of these older people who have been in these dating situations were. The guy was just terrible. And you don't WanNa fall for someone like that by the way the guy with the essay is about twenty some years older than you. But that's interesting because I feel like the stuff that zoe you mentioned about like tinder like any APP? Just having all these people lined up and just like tons of hookups and all that. That's like definitely very millennial. So what you're saying is because of all lake that backlash Jen's ears just are kind of avoiding like Jen's ears are the ones dating release. They're just not let you guys are considered romantically challenged by the Wall Street Journal. Because you're not even putting my oldest Jen's e Kherson like twenty two twenty four twenty five when I was Gonna say I mean a huge portion of Gen Z. Is Not even having sex. Just in general. Because they're young. Yeah honestly. That's the part. I'm like questioning this data that because it's like even like in our generation when you were younger like I personally. I don't know about you but I just wasn't eating as much because I just wasn't there like I was like in college or even in my early twenties I was getting my career in order just like living with my parents for some of it.

00:30:08 - 00:35:03

I just wasn't like dating at all so I feel like there's I didn't start really getting like really dating till I was twenty five at that point for looking at this data set. That's like the top of this range right so I think this is where it comes from. Millennials were the start of the hookup culture man a ton of sex all. Sei's went to them good for them because of that Gen Z. Looked at that and said I'm not fucking dealing with a I don't want to be part of that hookup called. I'm just not even going to hook up. And as a result of that. This generation is having less relational moments with each other because they want avoid entire. Sei together elder millennials. We had to rely on parties and such half the time. You're not going your way. Right where millennials could just fire up tender young now jen's ears or like s interesting narrative Aleutian. Why actually still? This is what I've been reading in our all these articles. I feel like I'm an expert on Jen's e- except I've not I feel like I'm just pulling my ass but it's that retro effect younger generations really looking for old fashioned values. They WANNA learn about courtship making an effort. What Romance is in Chen? They don't know how to do dating but they no longer want the casual sex in the casual hangout. They want something more. Yeah we think so. There's a lot that could be said about a lot right here. Just in terms of explanations. And why are we having sex? Because we're too busy on facebook or is it because we want to be like. Romeo and Juliet or is it. Because we're like fifteen half of us. I I think obviously what I see a lot is. I don't know really any any of my friends That the go into it seeing like I don't WanNa have sex at all because of because of all those those STD's the millennial run around or you saw happen to those millennials. So that is out there party. I was saying what I think I think they do. See A lot is a lot of and I you know. I'm guilty of this. A lot of updating that leads nowhere so we're not just like a tinder first came out. I feel like I never had actually little disclaimer. I never had tinder but I feel like people that did I was doubling. Let's meet up. Let's have sex like he's out now. I feel like people are like. Let's meet up. Let's grab a drink and then peace out like I think it's more people going more dates and I think especially what you what you hear. All the time is that like I think this is probably based on the lessons. That millennials have had to teach us. But you know people are saying things like never sleep with someone on the first date. Because then they'll they'll they won't. They won't respect you. Saw dating going on. No one's sleeping each other on the first date because of whether they just don't feel like it because whether they think the guy's not gonNA respect them you know probably like a mixture of things and then it's so easy to find another day like I said you go home and the guy that you matched with and so it's like we're meeting up we're meeting up and we we can. We can go and date these people as if we had met them at a bar because the stigma is gone. So we're not just using it for for you know secret of sex without that. We're not telling our friends about and I think it's turned into this thing that you're dating so many people but I mean I guess I could see why that would lead to less sex. I honestly didn't know that Gen Z. People are having less sex though GEN Z. And part of millennial the younger younger I'd double down on this like losing respect out if you sleep with someone because I feel like. That's a really archaic old school traditional way of thinking is that's what we were ingrained with the message. That like the elder millennials. Scott got our canes over here. We're ready but like we were told all these years through like terrible dating books. You need a third day when you sleep with someone to that arbitrary rule by the way he dating wrong agreed and I think though what we've kind of seen as backlash of a lot of people kind of challenging these roles and being like Hey. We have countless examples. We can point to of people that have David seriously or even gotten married to people. They've slept on the first date and then kind of all bullshit and I think it's kind of need. The millennial generation like you mentioned go on Tinder. Just Hook up kind of I feel like myself included. I don't really have as many of those views as I once did when I was younger. So it's interesting to me that you're kind of bring your generation's bringing them back or who's telling you this you know.

00:35:03 - 00:40:03

I think it's just a like a. Lotta what what what I hear on all the dating podcast today. Listen to but also what my friends have to say. And also my own bias. Because I will say that I do have a lot of friends that will say. Oh you know what like it shouldn't matter and it doesn't matter if the girls sweeps of me on the first day if I like her I like her. I get that but I also think that's what people like saying and I think that the reality is they don't like two guys don't like to admit to the own biases they carry if a girl does see with the first day because you know we are so. I guess progressive nowadays with sex especially in in their right mind like who they view themselves. As as a person would not judge. The girl would not like the girl less receiving them first day but deep down. I think that still exists so I think I'll save this. This is where my older millennial advice giving comes in that portion of the show. Give it to me. This is what I say to all your friends. And to your own internal voice. Which is I think for. So many decades women have been taught to change our behavior and our mentality to please men and to make sure that we can get one get. The man of our dreams are whatever it may be. You'll get them to respect but the reverse of that which is coming out in the last five years is that why do we need to adjust our behavior and mentality for men when men should stop thinking that of a woman sleeps with him on the first date and she's a sled that's on them So if a guy does not respect you and doesn't want to hang out with you anymore after you've slept with him on the first date fuck him. You shouldn't be with him in the first. One hundred I just don't really believe that that person would have stuck around if you didn't sleep with them either. I think like if they're not in it whip you like sleeping with you is not gonNa make or break it. Yeah but again. This is our generation. We've all we've also had a lot of friends who got married. Even though they slept with each other on yes I feel like there's been times that personally I have like held out because I've been under this mindset and it didn't do anything the person's still disappear. They got frustrated. They weren't having sex in. That just showed that they kind of like. Maybe that's all they were looking for in the first place right. I've had this conversation with guy friends a lot. And they'll say what you A. I put women in buckets if they sleep with me on a stay in the casual hangout bucket. If they made me wait three dates I put them in a potential girlfriend bucket. And they do this and that I put them in the wife Bucket and unlike do. That's your problem in buckets in the first place so no no need for us to adjust our behavior just to fit into a bucket. That sounds very old school to me too because I feel like most again. Maybe it's coming back with a JEN's ears but I feel like most men that I've spoken to that are ranging between when he six to thirty five ish right. Like millennial side. Do not think that way at all anymore. Feels that way at least on the sub sample that I am talked to which is by no means everyone. Yeah well I mean there are plenty of great men out there who. I'm not saying that they're all like this. But we need to stop champion. These toxic thoughts it. They don't make any sense. No I completely i. Completely one hundred percent agree and I just I genuinely do think that if you have to change the way that you act for a guy the like you. Then it's you you should be saying. Screw him the problem with that is that and I'm not trying to be sexist here or whatever but I genuinely do think that's overestimating a lot of men. Something that you should keep in mind that it's like even though we are in this new age where it's girls need to stop adjusting. The way they act for the opinions of men. I think that even though everyone is saying that everyone you know saying they believe that reality is is that this is still is still going on fair point. I think that just goes into the point. Is that those are just the less evolved men. They are still out there but they are more evolved men who don't have these thoughts floating around all the time. I don't think again is less about the generation thing and just the lifestyle your APP because I think like men. In general that are under twenty five like over all most likely not looking for a relationship that ends in marriage like in urban areas. Like that's just the reality of it. I have definitely like seen advice to of if you are a younger woman in you want something more serious may be worked eating a little older because those like trust me look younger millennial you need to go to. An elder millennials are so I think it's just like this point though is like is it like you said like they haven't evolved yet. It could just be immaturity level. It could be where someone is at twenty two right.

00:40:03 - 00:45:00

It's the elder millennial folks at twenty two lake. They would make comments about women that were just not evolved and also think about what the media is feeding us too. I thought I wanted to be in relationships to at twenty five but I didn't know what that meant something that was set to me like. Oh you're twenty five year old woman. You should want to be in a relationship. Of course that's what I look for when I dated men but when I was actually in relationships I was like what I'm doing. I don't know if I really want this deal like. What are you looking for because I feel like my leshem not going to buy us it yet? You see what you're looking for that I'll tell you what my hypothesis is of your generation or upto. Zoe I know where she's GonNa go. Will the Mark Risen? Feld my podcast. Put it perfectly. Because I was asking him about this about what they're if you WANNA grow as an adult and you're young you're in your twenties and and you want to develop who you are as a person whether having a relationship will hinder that and he was saying that having relationship could hinder it but also not having a relationship could also hinder. There's growth to be found in all areas if you if you are also taking responsibility for other aspects of your life so in no way whatsoever what I ever want to get into a repeat relationship with the one that you know. I do not mention that I told you about for four months where it was just like. I was so suffocated the entire time. Because that definitely I think was not the right. Move for me. It wasn't it didn't I didn't expand me as a person I will say that I do WANNA relation ship because I have been single for awhile and I just really appreciate you know the things that come with being in a relationship like you know the hanging out I just. I love even with my friendships. I always hang out with like one or two people Hardcore I've always been that type of person I don't really like spread around with a lot of people and I think that's kind of where I'm coming from. It could also be just because I haven't been in a relationship for a while so I think at twenty two if someone says I'm looking for a relationship why I wanNA be in a relationship. It could be could be seen like as well you know you need to grow in like you need to discover who you are but. I do think that I could also do that in a different way in a relationship. I'm also like you know. Still young naive and immature. And it's like the pretty present that I want. So let's say hypothetically you got your dream job. You're moving to London right. I am I six months league. Let's say you meet the sky in London that you just like fall head over heels and then you're taking back to the states and you have to go back to La so super far. We're would you prioritize? 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Snap back to the show so you need the sky in London. You just like fall head over heels and then your career takes you back to the states and you have to go back to La Super Far. We're would you prioritize? I would actually love to work in London but let's just like back to not back to this hypothetical where I was going to La. Let's say what got a medical school there. And that's the only one I got into. Yes one hundred percent. I would choose medical school. I would not stay anywhere for a relationship especially considering I just met him and I also think people change you know so much however I will say that people all the time say oh. I can't. I can't do long distance. I can't handle the pain. I can't duck. I will always give long distance a try because if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out and we can try it out. There's no harm in trying if we really each other So yeah I would give long distance a try but I would not stay in London because I just don't trust relationships or people to ever stay the same so yeah if I were. I don't think there's anything wrong and moving for a relationship. I think there's a stigma around that too because everyone's like oh I'm so career oriented oriented. I think it's perfectly fine to move a relationship if you can find a great job at that place to and you guys have been together for a while back to your hypothetical.

00:45:00 - 00:50:05

If this were an amazing opportunity that I couldn't pass up of course I would either do long this if you didn't want you then and by the way it probably wouldn't work out but you know if he didn't want to. I would leave anyway. The reason I asked is because I feel like we were kind of on this. Haas of women really like rising in the workplace and I think like at least for myself. I was kind of ingrained with this. You must support yourself in like get your career off the ground and I think that really did beat me like kind of look at relationships as second for very long time And I was curious if you kind of felt the same way like if your friends were putting off relationships for career or balancing it better or like what kind of things that you were seeing out there beyond just yourself. I feel so strongly about this and so glad you asked this because you're so right with women especially wanting to go after their careers and everyone especially in America thinking of the career. Your career is most important thing and I think I've always prided myself on the fact that I have a good career ahead of me in the fact that I am going to put a lot of effort into my career but I do think that people miss understand what happiness means what for most people putting one hundred percent and tear career over anything else is not GONNA be happy. Sei Yeah maybe. It'll feel good at a dinner party when you can tell people. That's what you prioritize more than anything else but reality. We only have one life and what's going to make happy career. Our relationships our family so it makes no sense to me that people consistently over and over and over again put family and relationships. You know in the back seat and get where it's coming from because we all WanNa career now on. It's gray and I think that you should go after your career but I think there should be more of a balance and I think people are kind of ashamed or don't WanNa share the fact that they would give up. You know maybe a slightly better job and then take the the worst job if they could be with their partner now. We're in this age where everyone's so that we also need to focus on okay. We'll what actually makes me happy. It's certainly not the things that I'm going to be able to buy with an amazing career. Certainly not title of a career. People overestimate how much dot how happy that's GonNa make them. I am career oriented like I said and I think that all my friends are that way too but they don't see that it's not the best decision my mind. Who CEO. I would never move relationship. That's what everyone always says. I think everyone likes saying that. That's who they like themselves to see themselves as but I think that's a mistake in the long term. So where do you see your life at thirty to ten years from now thirty two? Oh my goodness okay so I will be Outta. Let's see how in twenty two right. Now I'll be a doctor or still in my later years of my residency and hopefully hopefully doing something. You know what I WANNA DO I. This is a funny that I just talked about how we shouldn't like prioritize just our career and then I'm like going immediately into career but in terms of career graduated from medical school starting off as being a doctor. Hopefully doing something like neuroscience or dermatology will see which residency I get. I also really want to do something on the side because I love doing this podcast. I love creating things and I feel like for me was a big pill to swallow when I went directly into deciding that I was GONNA do medical school in terms of my relationships. I honestly I want to be married. I don't really see myself as someone that wants to spend her thirties. Single or whatever. I think that when I find the person like I ended. This is not a good quality. I repeat this is not good quality but I'm just saying that I know myself away who I am as a person I will definitely do a shotgun wedding. I have no self control at. I like somebody's they'll probably be married. Maybe once divorced by then and yeah I definitely. I want to mid to late thirties to have kids though. And ask me how I'm GonNa do all this as a doctor. Who knows will figure it out. And what about a forty two twenty years from now? Okay so by the time. I hope that I save enough money up as Dr to like I said. Start something on the side so whether that be something with dermatology with. I definitely want to have some sort of savings on the side so that in addition to being a doctor in addition to seeing patients more entrepreneurial more creative oriented so you know do a little passion project on the side and spend time with my fam- yet by by now what's up the family got your husband. You've got a few kids by now. You think this is still happening. Forty two like you think. Everything's going good so is kind of a question of like. Can you really have it all? Can you be a doctor? Can you have a career? Can you have kids? That don't feel neglected. I absolutely do believe that I can and I say that because I have seen my parents do it. My parents and I have a wonderful relationship at the same time. They built a S- amazing company and see any problems with that. I think that if there does come to be an obstacle in a maybe my Feeling neglected maybe.

00:50:05 - 00:55:03

I feel like I'm not putting enough effort into my career to my husband. I think that's that you can approach than but I think honestly and this is gonNA sound like I think I'm superwoman. But a lot of people say they don't have time for things but I think that a lot of people don't realize how much time they're wasting and that includes myself. But you know every single time I go into a new feet where other people that have been that have done the exact same thing before me have said. Oh my God. I was so difficult. Blood sweat and tears. I found that if I just You know put put one hundred percent effort into it and organized my life than I usually come out on the end you know breathing at a pretty normal pace so so I can definitely say at twenty two. I never thought this far about my life. So it's good for you. Here's here's the thing. Is that like you're putting when you asking these questions? I feel like my personality is just like you got to think of it. Answers that way I think about it sometimes but definitely. Don't think about it too much in in in depth. Honestly it's good. It's good to do some future forecasting. I want to go into some of the other trends about your generation. We didn't touch upon. We won't go into detail. I just found these to be interesting. Jen's ears tend to have a higher tendency to get into long distance relationships because they borderline suffocate. One another with their physical digital personas. So the not of withdrawing from this exchange is somewhat of an exotic idea Idris. Tao's like your apparently Jen's ears even on dating APPs will look at a farther a wider radius in Gen generations because you're more open minded about having someone who's not there all the time like having a remote relationship do you think that's because you're so technology dependent because there's also I would be curious to hear his always perspective on this too because I feel like the millette. The younger millennial generation was kind of. There's a little bit of a backlash or even maybe Gen Z. That like a lot of younger children like didn't really spend time with family with friends As much as past generations like I remember there was this APP called House Party. I don't exist anymore basically like you're in this virtual house party with all your friends and it was all super young young ends in actually like it made me really sad because I was like Sosas kind of depressing. The people would rather sit in their own home on their phone and actually go out and play in meet with people. These were like teenagers. They're actually are probably JEN's ears. I Guess Zoe do you feel that way? Do you feel like you see friends last. Because you're just connected on phones I definitely think the To the first question about how? Jen's ears are more willing to do long distance relationships. I guess I fit in like I said once again tubing agenda but I think that might and this might be aging you guys up too much but that could be due to the fact that maybe people are more willing and able to move and work in different cities countries States these days whereas back. Then if you either were moving it was because you had this job and you know you couldn't really see yourself moving after that if you weren't moving it's because you're going to stay in your hometown right your family because you know no one gets into long distance thinking that's going to be the rest of the relationships that could be on mobile and you're saying yeah. I'm Jen's ears are more nomadic exact super tied to one player possessions. Like you said it's more about like experience as a life. Would your thoughts about like seeing your friends like how much of like. How often do you see friends versus like talk to them via digital faces? I okay so I'm really real ever all my friends will say I'm horrible. Texting call person. Have to ensure your agency I crash but you know what I will do to like. Keep in touch with my friends and make them. You know share. The love is all just like I'll send members Simple as okay. You're Gen Z. again. You're back next trend I again. I don't think we need to get into detail about this. But the word cheating is leaving out of Jen's ears vocabulary because people are so Against getting into relationships or noncommittal yet that if they do actually commit it becomes very serious so cheating will no longer exists phasing out of their vocabulary. We see that even now. I feel like most relationships that we are like friends of ours ourselves like Donna for someone cheated as much as historically in the past. It feels like one like you just said they're not getting into release. They're not getting off the ground to begin with or people are kind of going down this route of like ethical nominee.

00:55:03 - 01:00:05

Yeah like William Murray just not not monogamy anymore. Yeah but it's like this. This word sheeting is kind of like this. No no exit implies like where like holding something or lake young militias if people have really backlash against that probably from seeing parents generation older generation right a lot of divorce and stuff because a Cheetah failed relationships. Zoe thoughts that is that is actually so interesting. I'm trying to think of a why that would be the case. If someone's cheated on you cheated it'd be the first to like use the word. I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. I think what you're saying is maybe right in that like there's so many other ways that relationships are failing or not even coming to so it's like harder to cheat because you know what happens. A Lot. Nowadays like people will be dating seeing each other several times a week going on dates all the time. Not Not official or whatever. So it's like if they hook up with someone else. What are you yeah? You're right like what are you gonNa tell your friends who cheated. I mean it's like you guys. You guys aren't girlfriend boyfriend writing. I guess that's probably the whole blurred lines aspect of it. It was insane like you wouldn't call someone Alpa. People just aren't doing it in the first Friday so it's like. Do you have any friends that have broken up with someone because there are significant other cheated their significant other cheated where they're like little significant other like full-blown relationship. Oh actually you know what? Yeah I know relationship that ended because of cheating cheating going on. It'll happen. It's still happening. This is probably a good segue to some of our take Lynch this conversation. Yeah I feel like you know my favorite quote if any for anybody who's been listening to the dateable is we're all each other's consequence. I think as much as we can joke about the different generational differences. I I have to look in my own generation. Say What are some of the consequences? We've left for these other generations and what I would tell my kids about dating and love or relationships when they grow up. I think it's unfortunate some the mistakes that we've made and I like to think more about like how that's impacted sub some the younger kids and it's never too late to think about that. So even for Jen's ears even if you're in your teens also good thing about like what is his legacy either leaving. What is that that world? You WanNa leave for your kids. Yeah I don't know if you can look at it as mistakes though you just Kinda had to go through it and this is what happened. I'm sure Jen's ears are going to uncover a whole slew of other things that we're not even thinking about so you can prepare for something. There's only so much you can prepare. We are so my takeaways almost like I kinda feel like. There's more similarities between generations than you may think. I think also sometimes just like where you are in your stage of life like I. I hope everything that you wish for comes true but that was extremely idealistic. And I think what's going to end up happening in the next ten to twenty years. Who knows things can take all sorts of turns and I think we've learned from our podcast. It's just everyone's kind of on their own journey. Things don't have to necessarily be tightly woven up by certain Egypt's I know we set that up by asking you for ages. I don't mean to you personally but I think like balance of knowing what you want out of life but then also kind of just taking things as they come and being open to the different turns imitates takes two. Yeah no I completely agree with that. I think one of the biggest things to keep in mind. Is that when when you're asking me about where Jen's ears are doing when they're dating it's completely or even what I would prioritize back to the whole life? You know what you want when you're thirty to forty to do you. Would you move for relationship? Would you stay for relationship? These my answers are completely based on my past experience with relationships with school and also what my future goals are so. Obviously it can only specific. So it's like maybe I've learned at this point that you know through relationships that I've had or just through my own mental health. Maybe I've learned that you know achievements are not. GonNa make you happy. A job isn't GonNa make you happy and so because of that. I put so much emphasis on making sure to kind of happen. More holistic approach to life. And just say like you know why I do want it all. I'll go for it all whereas someone that has been in a different situation may be. They've kind of put too much emphasis on relationships and now if they're in the same place in their life as I am except for. They had different experiences. They're more likely to be like you know what I'm not relationship. comes second. I'm putting career firs on no relationship for now. It's like the older you get the more you can kind of. Have you can take a step back and have more a fuller. Understanding of the entire picture I think at this age It's twenty two every experience that you have shared so much. What your what your view of what your life is going to be what you want out of your life So so it's hard to say.

01:00:05 - 01:05:00

I think that you know there comes like biases have a lot more power. Because you don't have that many experienced to shape your opinions but I will say. The view of my future is extremely idealistic. And I don't think that I would have it any other way and I know that that setting yourself up for failure but now it's like setting yourself up for failure is setting yourself up for failure so setting yourself up for idealistic future is also setting yourself up for failure. Might as well go for the lottery right. I don't think it's setting yourself up failures having a vision whether your life is unpredictable but having a vision does help you guide your life in some way so I don't think it was setting yourself up for failure. I think my point though is that your vision might change with different life experience as you get older exactly right now. You just said it like you have a certain view because those have been your experiences. I think a lot of us to like when you were twenty two you just assume by like whatever twenty five thirty whatever it is. You'll be married with kids like that's just the way society works and I think like as you continue to grow light you see that. Sometimes that doesn't always go in that way and sometimes that isn't the desired way for everyone a lot of friends of mine that did meet that person in college right out of college. Had that just go that way immediately and then others were did it and it really just comes down to lock in like different directions. Your life takes you definitely and it's also kind of just like if you're on a certain pause and it's making you so happy. Let's say you like you're on your career path and you're twenty nine and then you're thirty and you're and it's like it's really fulfilling you then. You shouldn't go for that relationship. You shouldn't go for the marriage because that's what's making you happy if it's not making you happy than maybe it's like you should start looking for that so. I think it's definitely like it's so hard to say from now. You can say all the things that you want by a certain age but it's so hard to say what's actually going to happen because you don't know what's actually going to make you happy. You know like two years ago had such different view of what I wanted to ally and I think that's the point is like he's just always change right but an associate logically. I find this conversation super fascinating just because we can look at some of the patterns and how they repeat just fashion yet. Dating comes back folks come back different forms so I'm GonNa make some predictions. I think like for our parents generation experience highest divorce rate that. Yeah I'm talking about Julian. I not you. So because of that. Our Jenner these millennials are saying you know I'm Gonna I'm GonNA marry way later in my life so or getting married in their mid to late thirties around the average and as a result of that we have these like war years of disgruntled dating which has caused. Many people have dating fatigue or mistrust with their partners which then leads to Gen Z. Which is like. I don't want experience any of that stuff. I might just skip it. I might just keep it all together and get Mike and get my life in order. I whether that's my career were otherwise but this dating part. If it happens it happens. I'm not going to actively seek it out in if I do. I'm not gonNa tell me about it because it's not. You shouldn't be a priority for me so as a result of that. I think Gen Z. Is Looking for more traditional looking for traditional values or like I want courtship if it does happen on the courtship I want the effort to be made. I Want Romance and I want this like professing of love. That's very grand as a result that whatever that next generations called who knows that generation may actually revert back to our parents generation of dating a little bit earlier. Maybe wanting that relationship a little faster in life and that could also cause or divorces. I don't know maybe we're going back. Full Circle next next generation. Who knows it again? This is just one zero so the conversation. I'm sitting year. There is a slight reflection of my face in the window. And it's just funny how I'm here representing Jansy feel like I don't know you're not. We need to give that disclaimer. You are representing sort out or whatever you call it what you are representing yourself. But it's still interesting to hear your experiences. We got to wrap this up. Thank you so much so easy for. Thank you so much. For having his respective Jen's ears have a totally different viewpoint. They are all about the hookup culture. Let's hear from having to the dateable. Podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network five more. Podcast you'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast TAG as an any post with Hashtag.

01:05:00 - 01:05:36

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Dateable Podcast
Yue Xu & Julie Krafchick

Is monogamy dead? Are we expecting too much of Tinder? Do Millennials even want to find love? Get all the answers and more with Dateable, an insider’s look into modern dating that the HuffPost calls one of the ‘Top 10 podcasts about love and sex’. Listen in as Yue Xu and Julie Krafchick talk with real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes, and first moves to first loves. Whether you’re looking to DTR or DTF, you’ll have moments of “OMG-that-also-happened-to-me” to “I-never-thought-of-it-that-way-before.” Tune in every Wednesday to challenge the way you date in this crazy Dateable world.