When nothing seems to be going right in your dating life, the only logical step is to go on 51 first dates and document it all through a podcast, right? We're chatting with Kimmy & Liza about how this experiment helped uncover and break their bad dating patterns for good. We discuss why CGS (cool girl syndrome) is the demise of dating, how to break free of fuckboys, and why it's so important to ask what you want for in relationships.
Follow Kimmy & Liza @51firstdatespod. Listen to 51 First Dates on all podcast platforms.
Thank you to our partners for this episode:
BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month of online therapy at betterhelp.com/dateable with the code DATEABLE.
S11E3: 51 First Dates
00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves I'm your host Yue Xu former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we dig into the why why why's of why people do the things that they do in a lot of times is just getting to the root of People's motivation right? Like instead of US trying to read each other's mind we actually ask the question why why are you doing this? Why? Do. You think this way and that's how we get our answers. This week has been an emotional roller coaster for me Julie I think this news about Chadwick? Bozeman has hit hard just because I think a lot of it is one I had no idea that he was battling cancer. I right people did but he was also diagnosed when he was my age thirty nine. I just can't believe someone of he peered. So healthy he appeared so lively that he was battling some things. So dark that nobody knew about it just you just don't ever know what anyone is going, which I think has been the other big moral of this whole podcast to right. It's like beyond just the why it's like you have to have a little forgiveness for people to 'cause you just don't ever know someone situation it breaks my heart that has wife by his side when this happened and made me think about at the beginning of relationships dating. All the Games people play and all the like Oh. Did he text me back and why does she do this end of the day? None of these things not Sadr's exactly like if you're the first person or your whatever like who cares I think I've been actually been a bit more active on dating APPs this week, which has been good. I think a couple of weeks ago. I said I was ready to start to try to meet people again and I actually have had the most lock on tinder I haven't activated tinder in years where I was like. You might as well see what's out there right? I've actually had some like pretty solid Congo's of people on Tinder but the reason I'm bringing this up is one of those condos I felt like really good about like we like it just kept going back and forth the got to the point that I was like, okay. I'm like getting distracted from work like I need to like cut this and continue another day we were just going back and forth. So I gave him my I was like Oh if you want like reach out via tax, like here's my number, you know try to like move it along outside the APP. So he texted me immediately just so I had his number and all that and then I think this was like Tuesday, and I hadn't really heard anything from him since. So I'm like you know what? Like Fuck I've just said message see how is weekends banner whatever the? No reply which you know it's it's one of those things the reason I bring it up is because I know a lot of people on our facebook group have things like this happen all the time like we see it all the time. This is part of modern day. Day. At the end of the day, it's how how do you process? How does it affect Your Mind Sen in why I'm bringing it up to his I have no idea what's going on at this person's life. I talked to him for what a couple of hours. If even you know it's like not even a couple hours was maybe like an hour Max Right? It's like you just don't know and I can choose to take it offensively or it can choose to move on like in reality. This guy knows nothing about either and I don't regret reach ago 'cause it's like one of those things that it's like I'm not gonNa keep doing it now right? It's like you did it once didn't get the response he wanted now it's time to move onto someone that shares that response you have to understand that it takes to tango and if you're trying to force someone else sedans. With you it will never work out. So instead of dwelling on the whiny mentality victim mentality, you have to say like if if I'm stepping forward and the other person doesn't take a step forward to meet me then I, I have the choice to leave this day I don't need to be part of this exactly but it's all also good to step four I. Think a lot of people don't step forward and a lot of it's like, Oh, the man should do that or you know I don't want to come off to overeager whatever like that is and I think at the end of the day like tying back to what you're saying none of this ship matter. Doesn't matter who messages I as long as you're getting that reciprocity I think that does matter if you're not getting that back in, you're always the what initiating and you're always the one doing that that is a different story than not being. So tit for tat on who makes the first move. It's kind of similar to our episode last week with.
00:05:00 - 00:10:01
A tick tock possible and we had that conversation on our facebook group where people really admired these two both taking a step forward one step at a time but also meeting each other where the other person wants them to be and I think that's that takes a lot of courage these days because it's that like yours talk about the relationship chicken is. Everyone. So afraid to take that step forward and therefore you become you get to a standstill and what do you do at that point? There's no you can't move forward and I also experienced this in my own relationship even though I am in a committed monogamous relationship, they're still that hesitancy to step forward for your partner to show for your partner. Because you don't want to get your feelings hurt there's private stance and away, and in the last week that my boyfriend I went away to celebrate our two year anniversary. It became like couples retreat for us because we had to talk about some of the ways that we weren't showing up for each other and it became so clear to me that my. My pride standing in the way of giving him. All of me is also stopping him from omitting farther to me. You know. So it's it's a it's a vicious cycle that we have to break out of and I learned so much from this past week of just having the courage to go in step forward and to give it all you've got I. think that's so important that you say that for a couple reasons, I want to hear all about the anniversary I've been waiting to not ask you until. But before I like, ask you the details as much that you'll share. Of course but I think a couple things that you said I do WanNa like cut hit home is that it doesn't stop in early stage dating and we actually have an amazing episode this week all about just like the dating behavior that holds you back and I think one of the things that one of art two guests there from fifty one. I states another podcast that we've also been on and the it started as a dating experiment and it really was all about how to understand one of the. Hosts kimmy her dating behavior in her friend Liza she actually in a committed relationship and we asked her, why are you so interested at the stuff and her response was the same shit shows up the same like challenges that people have whether you're in early stage dating or your with a monogamous partner. The only difference is that you have to have difficult conversations with someone who had a one night stand with versus your partner like. It shifts the person but if you don't do the inner work and like learn how to communicate and do all, that doesn't just magically go away when you find a partner. So but now I want to hear about the the lovely couples of anniversary exciting two years two years is crazy. I think there are two major milestones in a new relationship wants US six months and one two years six months you're just solidifying the relationship building. And at two years is were real shit happens. That's why. Are. We doing together or are we did we just have two years of honeymoon together and we definitely came to that this week I think I had so many I love to procrastinate and there were so many conversations I want half with him that saving for this week, which is a wrong way to do it because. After a few drinks it all comes out at once and he's like, Whoa, where did all this come from saving it for a whole month? You know? Yeah. But that's that's the problem with. With not continuing to to communicate with your partner on a regular basis is that you build up and then you save it all for one time. So that was lesson number one but I think the lesson number two I. got a I learned about myself was I am so guilty of CG s cool. Girl Syndrome in and that's something we talk about in this episode with Kimmy. Elisa which is like that. Sometimes when you're so independent and that society tells you to be the cool girl you end up sacrificing your own needs just to give off this portrayal of a cool girl like nothing matters. It's cool. I. Run with everything I'm so easy going and I think it's been really detrimental for me on a just mental health level is that I've been just hiding all these feelings or not letting them be known because I just want to give the portrayal that I'm just really easy going I'm. So completely guilty of that, and this week we definitely talked about what my needs are his needs are, and I'm just really happy to say that I'm more in love with him than I've ever been. This is the closest I've ever felt with someone and I'm just very grateful to have him in my life, but it took a lot of conversations to get there.
00:10:01 - 00:15:04
That's the thing though it's like and we go. We dive into this in the episode is when you play the cool girl, it doesn't actually bring people closer like. Vulnerable, tough conversations. When things I mean we we've learned this from past experts we've talked to too. I, Remember Alexandra Solomon Dr Alexander Solomon said at wonderfully it's like conflict in a relationship is inevitable become. You don't have any conflict. It probably means that someone's just holding it in more. The relationship isn't deep enough to warrant conflict. So I think it's really like when you are able to just have those difficult conversations, it's either as a win win, either way brings you closer like you were just saying were it can make it. Really clear that you're on different pages and that isn't a bad thing either it's better to not be in denial like thinking something is going a certain way if it's clearly not. So yeah, I mean I'm glad that you felt closer. I think that's wonderful I'm glad that you guys had those conversations but yeah, this shit doesn't stop after you get the relationship like the credits like the way that movies work the girl gets the guy guy gets the girl guy gets the guy whatever it is and then offered there now. Yeah. Stop there. Actually it's like you know people who WanNa have kids and then they have kids and then there's a whole other bag of issues. It's like life never stops giving you conflict and. Nothing stops so get this though. The universe works in very strange ways. So we went to central coast, not many people go there or at least that we know of and we're in downtown slow San Luis Obispo and we're about to get dinner and we walk by this table and I'm like Holy Shit The sky look. So familiar like who? You. You look. So familiar from far away and as we get closer, it is my fucking ex-boyfriend. Years ago. Yes. Way His. With his wife and his brother I, want I know or know someone. So the guy I dated very like the very first guy in San Francisco but then I moved to San Francisco and we broke up okay. I never met him but I know who you're talking about. Wow, I have not seen him since we broke up for years ago and I never I mean it was amicable also like I have not seen him and we both live in San Francisco. What are the chances that we run into each other in downtown slow? So so I'm telling my boyfriend like this is really crazy what a small world that is my ex boyfriend with his now wife and his brother who I have met before to he's like. Guess what Babe I think. We're GONNA. Sit Right next to them. Leading, the waiter is cleaning that table right accident only. Like, a riot calm it is in a in a calm. Wrong at all and I. Like should I go over there say something isn't it? Weird if I just don't say something right next to them. So of course, chances would be that I. We get seated right next to them and I go up to them and you know at this point like I have a mask on okay and I'm not seen this guy in four years. So, I go over and I'm like, Hey, like to him and his brother and they both look like who the fuck But it gets even more awkward because I have an I have not been around people in a few months except for my co workers that I forgot how to be social. Fred's. I don't need to be like, Hey, guys around my own friends. This is an ex boyfriend. I haven't seen him for years in true awkward UA fashion. I don't know what the Fuck I was thinking I'm wearing my mask and I give him a hug Oh God what am I doing I'm like Getaway. Life to you know. Oh It's you. He's like Oh as I'm reaching out. Hug In. This. Is Even there, and I can just see his wife being like what the fuck is she doing who issue and if finally clicks for him and his brother. great to see you. But why the fucker you hugging US drink open I'm. I don't, but then it gets even more awkward because we're having like small talk whatever. That's my boyfriend right there introduce him and they the X. end the brother both over a shake his hand on my God. This is so awkward like so comfortable listening to. This is so cringe on just in hindsight, but I cannot imagine how much cringe it is for both my boyfriend and the wife you. Don't touch me. Like I don't even WanNa touch my friends he had to load my ex's new significant other I definitely don't want to touch that person.
00:15:05 - 00:20:04
I am so guilty for starting this cringe train that I could no longer stopped and a Catholic rolling and I didn't know I didn't know how to make this nightmare. It was very, very awkward, but it's it's fine. I mean I don't have any ill will for him. It was actually really great to see him. His wife is lovely. I've always liked his brother it's just what are the chances of running into them in downtown slow in the middle of covid. Recognize you like that's like, I get that. You were Basharat. Do you think he did it want to like you know like he's like a with my new wife or whatever new way with my with my. Wife but. Like I just. Don't know have you dated someone wouldn't you remember them like? Little suspect to me. I'd be who I mean who knows right? Yeah. The whole thing was just a little a little unexpected also is out of context you know if it was in. San Francisco. Maybe. So. Like I actually ran into one of our past guests this weekend you did. Yeah, I. Read it to one of our guests Barco. She was with her new boyfriend. So for everyone. Yeah, everyone that remembers bargain. We had a two part series with her in the first part was about just trouble in unlock with men in the second part was that she found love with a woman. So now you know like sometimes you go whole circle to figure shit out but he seemed like a very lovely guy. They seem really happy but I will admit it was a little awkward because at first I was you know I didn't recognize fully and then I was like, okay. Like it was kind of like, Oh meet my boyfriend after I was like should I introduced the people I'm with it was just like it was a little awkward to. Good I mean. I'll share by awkwardness of this weekend also now that we're down this. Down the yeah. Actually I feel like I saw a bunch of our people in our dateable orbit, which is Kinda. Funny. So I hung out with Lauren quarterback who was one of our guests that was Series everyone remembers and then one of our current gas of this season Dr Abigail Lev who's coming up for she says so we have that in store for you it was really fun there like therapists crew that I got to hang out with and we went for you know it was like such a production this weekend because somehow the smoke actually got and I heard yeah, like I don't understand because the fires are stop I think it's the. Wind patterns like it was actually fine in the week in this weekend, of course, magically becomes untolerable. So pretty much all of s like I was like my eyes were watering yesterday was so bad in my house my doors were shot all of that. The Marina for some reason was the only Green Area I. think it's like anywhere near water. So we went to the marina it was like totally fine there. It was very bizarre like how is For anyone that doesn't live in SF I don't live that far from the micro-climates a couple miles it's like crazy and it was like totally pure and fine but what? Embarrassing thing that happened to me, I feel like we're in our covert wear all the time and you know you got to walk places. So I wore my leggings with a selection I think I might have worn the sweater wearing right now with leggings and I was like Oh. This is a cute Kobe outfit. Comfortable outfit it's approved. It's an outfit that goes from Kobe home attire tonight time we're at a restaurant, right? So yeah, because I feel like, okay like I don't know for wearing jeans or like dress when you have to walk like two miles is like it's just not going to happen. So I'm wearing these lightings new leggings I got, and I noticed that they started to split in the middle like crotch crossing. CROTCH. For like Luckily no-one this because it didn't continue to spread but I was like this could happen the bad like this could have been bad. So I'm like, okay. No. To solve BP pure cove at a tire by dot be the right transition that you're thinking so. I have some nice like jumpsuits that might be wearing now as do a tire like something that won't rip maybe like the tightness of the walking or whatever it was. How did you? How did notice they started ripping I went to the bathroom that's when you notice. Yeah I went to the bathroom and I looked and there was a whole. So. Bathroom you would have never noticed I mean no but eventually, I was going to the bathroom and the. Data they just stopped ripping 'cause like sometimes when things start to rip, it just goes downhill fast like I would have been totally fucked. Do the whole like sweater around the waist.
00:20:05 - 00:25:02
Who Wants To put around the way because I could have. I. Could've taken by jacket off it was freezing cold and everyone's like why you wear your jacket around with. Birds. In the front instead of like on the back. So it does even make sense but yeah. Because my embarrassing thing tonight. So I guess the advice and putting out there is a especially if you're on a date, maybe don't wear the leggings that are so cozy in your own home. I didn't know there were lessons to be learned in this. I. Can. My takeaway is I am not wearing these out again or if you're trying to you know. Yeah give off a different kind of message they're. Like Oh, I didn't know these crush leggings. Obviously it's a new covert style. Wow, okay. So eventful week for both of us shifting gears to other last week, we had a very controversial question Mary controversial would you rather? So the question was, would you rather someone whose political stands is at Fetig like they couldn't care less about politics or someone who is has very strong political beliefs, but they're opposite of yours. And I kind of knew where this will be headed in terms of polling. But. I didn't. I didn't realize how mad people would get. Yes. Question. They were mad at me for even posing it. Personally. People took it. I'm like guys a would you rather? Just too extreme everyone's like we need an option in the middle class. I get it I get it's not ideal. No one saying if ideal. You're not supposed to be ideal ideal. Then you knew like it'd be easier for you to pick which answer. So with Uh said Julie, what would be your answer? You know I actually flip flopped on this one. Which is Easy I know I think about it way too much like really liked to reason with these wedgie rathers so I actually watched the RNC the first night and I must say that it was the most comedic value I've received it a log ass time ed I'm sorry if I'm a fan getty what that shares the values here, but I'm just going to say it I won't go to watch on it but it was someone rooted like one of the news outlets wrote it up as like an SNL skit gone bad like an actual SNL skit and it was like. Like Kimberly Gar foil or however you pronounce her name She's Donald trump junior is like Donald trump junior girlfriend she was literally screaming her entire speech. It was just crazy town. So at first I was like when I thought about this question I'm like Oh my God what if I was sitting next to someone that actually like thought it was like legit and. I'm like I don't think I do that but then. The other side is like having someone has no opinions as bad to actually my aunt and uncle live in a divided households for Mulan. Tech's my aunt and uncle that you've met. Yeah. Who are both very educated lovely people. But my uncle and cousins are all hardcore Democrats and my aunt is hardcore Republican and yeah and I think it's like one of those things, I? mean. There's been times that they're like we need to just stop having the conversation like I remember they were actually visiting me at s APP, and my uncle was like this is Democrat city like stop. But I think it's one of those things I was thinking about it. I'm like they're very happy in every other way ad I very much respect by aunt intellectually, and in every way possible. But the other side of it is they've been married for years I think starting in where the political climate was not what it is today I think like politics used to be more like I don't know wasn't as front and center. I feel like like it wasn't something that people. Talked about in terms of dating and relationships, and it wasn't as tied to social issues. So after much debate I went back to the side of having someone long-term that had totally polar opposite views would probably drive me insane. So I'm going to have to go with the not having rather have someone that doesn't have a strong opinion I don't know how you can't have a strong opinion right now but maybe I could persuade them in some way. Got It. Okay. What was? This one was actually a little easier for me just because I think I have a lot of family members who have opposing political views as me and we get along just fine. It's just that we have more interesting discussions and conversations and they never talk down to me and I don't talk down to them. It's not a matter of like I think I'm better where they think they're better.
00:25:03 - 00:30:03
So I do think there is an opportunity for a couple to have healthier discussions in their views aren't aligned I also think it's a lot the chances of someone changing their views. are a lot higher than someone changing from apathy to carry and I say this because I've experienced in previous relationship apathy is no where I want to touch. I don't WanNa be with someone who didn't care and some who didn't care means one I think they have a lot of emotional barriers that they haven't worked through and that's not my job to help them with that breakthrough. But that's like years of therapy that they need to do and they're they're quite numb in that way and I if I can't have healthy conversations because they don't care, there's no point. In in moving forward with a relationship. So that's why I choose I. Rather be with someone who has opposite views where we can have healthy discussions and someone who just didn't give a shit you know. So interesting is because I feel like I used to be more apathetic about politics and over the years I've definitely gotten a lot more invested it and interested in a indefinitely have a strong view. So I do think it's possible to change but then also at the same time in the current climate is different than a pass climates of you don't of a you in. The current climate I can see what you're saying of will you ever have a view if you don't have one now? Yeah. That's a very good point. I think maybe choosing either one of these options is kind of the same because you can't predict the future people can always change and you never know what they've what they'll feel five years down the line but I think it's just more about how you think you can approach someone who does have either no views or or different views and how you can have a healthier discussion with them. So the result of this is Okay. So on instagram when we did the pull of seventy, five percent apathy and twenty five percent opposite views. On, our facebook page I. believe it was ninety nine percent apathy. Could really upset on the facebook page. KELSO UNDERSTAND WHY? Because when you go on facebook shows your name, right so everyone's voting the other way. It's it's a little harder to put your name out there to vote for the popular I. Think The instagram might be a more accurate quant metric. Facebook is good because you get to see the Kwalik why Ya yeah it was a really good discussion. I'm sorry people got really mad about you literally people fuck you for this question like, Hey, guys this. That's not the whole point. We're just trying to have some discussion. Are It gets a good question? I actually thought it was a good question because it's testing extremes. That's the point of a windy rather statistic streams. Yeah. Perfect. That was exactly what it was host to be. We are sorry. We offended anyone. Obviously the ideal is neither of these were not saying. Yeah but if you like to be part of this discussion on facebook because every week, we really interesting discussion. Group join our group. It's called love in the time of Krona by the dateable podcast we have I, think we have some of the most interesting and insightful discussions I've seen especially this week we had a discussion about dating with grief. You know this woman posted there she lost her father recently, but she's also trying to date thought that was a really fascinating discussion and is just I. Think it's a very healthy environment for people to talk things out with men and women we always like there's very few communities that you get both perspectives in all ages all at the city's like we've got it covered. It's really it's A diverse group for sure and it's fantastic in another way to connect with us is through our instagram. Yeah. Hey, DJ posts all the time but we also just solicit your opinions and stories. We we talk back and forth quite a bit. If you slide into our DM's, we're not shy about that at all. So that's also a way to connect with us, and if you just love us in general readings are always very helpful. We'll see visit every week but if you can give us five stars in on Apple podcasts store is that what it is like a podcast store I don't even know there you're not shopping. used. To store now, it's apple podcasts they went through a rebrand bachelor. That's why it's so confusing but five stars is still five stars. Give us give us a review. We really appreciate it really helps with our rankings and also like the quality of guests were able to be on the show. Yes. Thank you for everyone that did that already it's so so helpful. Yeah, and a fourth way to connect with us is YouTube. It's really interesting that we read somewhere that a lot of people do consume podcast through YouTube.
00:30:03 - 00:35:01
So we kind of revamped our youtube channel. We kind of like it was the middle child for a while we just didn't even think about it and now we've rebranded it. We are, we have merged with my old youtube channel. So this is more a announcement for anybody who's on our dateable podcast YouTube channel. We're shutting down that channel and we're going to migrate everything over to another channel called dateable is just called dateable and you'll see lot more subscribers there we've we're already pushing content over there. So you'll have about two weeks from today to get yourself resubscribe to over there we'll stop posting here already. So that's just another migration exciting migration. Yeah. Definitely check it out I. Love these little chat videos that are going out so loud good I know it's happening there in another excuse for us to like actually brush her hair and. Make up during. Another excuse to republish the decorator video also ready that is new and has. that. Are, legendary. Legendary video just we for that. Another announcement we have is we are part of the FROLIC network where a lot of great podcasts are part of as well. So we want to promote one of the one of those podcasts on this week's episode. This podcast is called dinner sisters. It's a very interesting concept, two sisters who give out three recipes on each episode but then they talk about like how they got to these three recipes. Some of these recipes come with really funny stories like one sister denault she had to a fish before you cook it. So it's it's like one part they're dynamic one part you get really great recipe ideas perfect for quarantine. PERV. Yeah exactly and for someone WHO's only child I liked to live vicariously through them lose their sibling relationship. So you can find out more about them dinner sisters, Dot Com, and you can find them on all the different podcasts players and then last but not least better help please help he. Well, this episode is sponsored by better help they've been with us for a long time. We really appreciate them and it's just good that we can all take some time for our mental health in these unprecedented times. Some of US may be experiencing some feelings that it's hard to decipher like what's really going on, and so one of those ways is working with a mental health professional better help has ensured me personally that I'm. Not Alone. In whatever it is an going through. So they offer online counseling with professional credible and compassionate therapists in a safe and private environment with over three thousand US licensed professionals across all fifty states. They make it easier than ever to find help, and they're also looking for additional counselors in all fifty states because we spent so much demand. So now for dateable listeners, only you get ten percent off your first month with code. dateable guests are today by going to better help dot com slash dateable join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better help dot com slash dateable and use the code Dat AB L. E. for ten percent off your first month. LOVETT's. So now to our episode I feel like we've had so many things to talk about but I'm really excited to release this episode this week we alluded to it. Earlier. But we have kimmy and Liza from fifty one I states, and we hear all about their dating experiment. But more importantly, what are these like things that are holding you back from you know like having authentic relationships and really taking that next step whatever stage you're at so yeah, it's a good one for anyone no matter where they are in terms of relationships day here's our conversation with Kimmy. Elisa from fifty one I dates. How many of you have ever fantasize about doing a dating experiment and then talking about it on a podcast. All of us right and what if I told you that two women actually did that they put the dating experiment into a podcast and the podcast is still going but the experiments pretty much done. But we're here to talk to Kimmy allies from fifty one I dates about how this whole experiment started. But also just like what did they learn? So I will introduce them now kimmy is. Thirty one years old she lives in La while she's currently not in La, she technically lives in l. a. originally from Boston and she's in a monogamous relationship and lies US thirty two years old she lives in New York. She's been there for ten years originally from Connecticut as she is engaged high ladies. Hello, thanks for having us. Thank you so much. Ask that. Lovely official. Intro I love. mean. This is just been my fantasy for a long time we've done like kind of episodes of of data experiments, but not the entire show.
00:35:01 - 00:40:00
So this is why it's like it's great to live vicariously through you but Kim. Yeah. I understand that your therapist was the one that recommended you go on lots of dates to break some bad eating habits. So why eighteen think this was the quote unquote prescription and how did you decide to make a podcast? Fun. I just think I haven't talked about this in a minute. So I'm like, oh. Yeah. This is how it started. So my therapist to. In a wild, you know turn of events not turn of events but wildly is also lies therapist. We did have the same therapist for no way until we didn't know for. Plan it Why We both referred by the same person and ended up with the same therapist and didn't know it for a while very early on in our friendship, and then I think actually finding out that we have the same therapists bonded us in a way that totally changed everything. Like finding out, you're being the same person but like not as not a scandalous completely. But Yes oh, my therapist had heard me sit in her office and really just complain about these have relationships fuck boy situations whatever you WanNa call them for yours truly like years. And she was like you act as though you've done a lot of dating in New York but you really just dated like the same people you knew it wasn't gonNA work out with for a while and she was she was much kinder than I'm being to myself right now. Basically, she was like some people go on a date like every night every week. This is New York. Why don't you try like one hundred dates or something and she wasn't prescribing as much as maybe just like being a, you could do that like put your mind to something i. also think at this point she knew me well enough to know if there was a goal I'm very goal oriented. I might be able to do it. Did she expect to create a podcast? Oh no no. Should have. She knows she knows Kimmie. Kimmie is are both project people? Yeah. So allies and I also our friendship blossomed. Once we found that we had the same therapist and then we actually the first project we ever worked on together. We used to produce videos together we did branded content we did like Internet comedy content, different brands, and for ourselves. But the first thing we ever made was a web series way back in two thousand thirteen about seeing the same therapist. So that really sounds fake this. is how the genesis of our entire friendship. So anyways I she probably had some idea yes that Oh, maybe if I give her a goal, you'll turn it into a project and then finally move on from this guy she's been talking about for too long. So I was like let's cut it in half. Let's make it fifty because that's more achievable and let's riff on like a very old very terrible Adam Sandler Drew Barrymore movie and we'll do fifty one I because of copyright but no, really I think. You might have you know obviously a different vision but lies he's always been such supportive friend and supportive but also a realist in helping me like kind of take back some power and dating and. The year we actually started it had been an idea we kicked around, but like not totally related but my mom passed away after a long fight with cancer or anything I was creating a project as well. In hindsight do they need to talk about people I was going on dates with I, don't know. Hey leads you to where you are now. And just you know to lightly pat ourselves on the back. We always talked about everyone anonymously with no identifying features. We tried to bring a spirit of kindness to discussing all of commute states because you know the guy on the other side of those dates was also making themselves vulnerable and I think we we always tried to keep that in the forefront of our minds when we were we were talking about stuff you know except for once or twice when we just had to bitch. proably, and I think. That's what I really admire about your experiment is that the goal wasn't to find. The love of her life. The goal was to uncover some of these dating habits that you had look the trends and behaviors and figure out what are the next steps. So it wasn't just about like finding the guy to complete your life. Yes wait. So did the guys know about it like when you went on dates? Did you tell them at all or no? I mean, mostly I was about to feel like a sort of like there's an entire podcast. Bed I. Did like time. Out New. York, on dateable 's I duNno. To, yeah, I did that. So I was I went on a match made date. That's not how you'd say it but a matchmaker set me up and he knew. I told people pretty soon. But at the beginning I really wasn't telling them her three dates. That wasn't cool. People have googled her and found how laying. Yeah. We're GONNA find out eventually, right. So what were the the parameters of this original experiment because I'm guessing that at some point I mean you're not talking about minute details of the date, but you kind of have to give away some things right like Nana S- but you're giving away some character details yet I guess.
00:40:00 - 00:45:08
So I think maybe at the beginning like I would say I probably shared Ooh I think we were careful someone's going to dig up and be like, no you did talk about people's school, for example or what they did for work. But I since I did the dates we've had two other daters go on fifty one I states. Neither has made it all the way one due to finding relationship that was my brother he begrudgingly, but generously became our new data. So we got a male perspective for awhile and then our lovely data Olivia who has just because of Covid, we weren't going to force her. Go on like horrible Shitty facetime days this. Is like what got you into this like asa one that was in a relationship? What were you? Like I need to work with me on this I mean I just have been like trash relationships and communicating about my feelings my whole life and I think I got really lucky to date someone who is Extremely gifted at talk about feelings and kind of like taught me how to do it in that I think is just appear dice roll like straight lock on I'm still bad at it like I. Talk to our therapist every week about it. But I, I mean I had been in all the same places. Kimmy was like the fact that I was in a relationship at the time of US making the podcast and I'm still with that person doesn't change that like I had bed in all of the same situations had been super attached to people who were not into me or just weren't treating me that well or I had gotten into destructive patterns around like you know situation ships or fuck boys or whatever. So part of it is just like I think that dating right now is interesting like unprecedented and I love talking about it and the other part is just that I love talking and so podcast. I love feelings and I love talking to my female friends unlike deconstructing people's brains and like why people do crazy or great things. So it was really fun to. Talk Talk to me about all these random humans she met. She did all of the brave work of putting out there and meeting them and I got to sit in her former apartment agree point and drink and talk to her about it. So it was kind of wet. For Me One Way I love that you're a self-proclaimed drunk feminist. I think that is basically us to Itea. And I can totally see these conversations are happening. Okay. So I want to bring something up and. Julie, knows I love the bachelor, the Bachelorette that's like my things trashy reality TV and I don't know if you've heard about this, the latest gossip with Clare, who's supposed to be the newest Bachelorette and she apparently they've been looking for a replacement for her and there's a couple of rumors but one of them, she already found the man of her dreams twelve days into filming. So obviously this for your experiment as well. This would have could have been a possibility. So the rules around what have you found something you really like do you still go through with all AIDS? Yeah I, love it and I feel like I'm a little bit Clara Jason You. Know. We'll because we didn't have such a massive production budget and like amount of money riding on us, there weren't really specific roles. Liza was always like do what you want. I had not been in a real serious relationship really ever. So for me, it was like this isn't GonNa work out I'm also I when we started, I knew I was applying to Grad school and I knew I wasn't applying New York. I was like even like I'm probably a year and a half year out for moving so. Just, give it a shot is it did have a role I forget I mean I don't think it was a rule I think it was kind of the whole whole thing was an experiment, right? Like we didn't have any expectations about how it was gonNA turn out because then experiment you just kind of make a hypothesis and go and then you have to accept whatever guys I was a theater major and I'm talking about the scientific process but. Yeah I'M GONNA go ahead and move on. I think we didn't have. We didn't have a ton of expectations going in I think the hope was just to like examine some of stating patterns and like the dating patterns of a lot of millennial women especially in New York, which is a notoriously like weird city today I mean, we say that but also every something I've we absolutely learned from doing this podcast is that every city is a weird city today date in just for he's learned the same exact. So I think that and weirdly similar to the bachelor the Bachelorette this year we did exactly what happened to me met spoiler Matt met someone. And we started bringing in Teixeira 's left and right and it's funny. We had Kinney's brother on dance really cool We were kind of starting my l- cousins lash best friend going on dates and she met her now super serious boyfriend on date number four or something home.
00:45:09 - 00:50:15
So so we've had some people. Come in and you know we've been in this in the Clare annotations situation before and we kind of yeah just keep talking on and then we don't have people dating like we just talk about dating because it's still endlessly fascinating. Julie's vary lost right now. So Patia is like the backup to clear the Bachelorette and they are. Much more interesting than Clare and like way more exciting. I agree. So, can you tell us? You mentioned that you didn't really have like a relationship prior to this like what was your dating life like like if you had a summit up before the experiment? Yeah I was in a pseudo very short relationship in college with someone I had gone to high school with that ended. When he Met someone at his college that he fell for and I had been my pattern I realized since like truly my first kiss I. Don't know where like the whatever we don't. This is not therapy but I've had issues around like measuring a lot of self worth around around man and I hope you will back me up my dad and my brother are really like emotionally and touch available man like I didn't have a bad example on the traditional sense and I think then moving to new. York like what I realized now is I i. had like some really big crushes that were infatuation that I turned into something more in my head when. I was like twenty, one to twenty four that I really should have shut down sooner than later in my twenties it was like meeting people and being these sort of relationship things with them and thinking it was going to change and being really set on when it would change or the challenge of making it change and measuring my worth on if they were into me, you know it wasn't like just a hookup that went on too long. It was like, no, we're being romantic together and you're giving me this attention and then you come back I mean, if we've all anyone listening has been in one of those push poll too long things that. It's awful like I think just whatever it is about my personality like right before this podcast, it was really like me being too hung up on a dude who was like literally the second person I've ever gone an online date with and who I thought was going to be really interested in me, and then who similar to me was about to move away for Grad school on like eight months later and I just thought it was going to go somewhere and it didn't like Pine Dover Him for like well, we still hang out for two years and then there was another year to try to get over it. I don't know just deeply scarring. It's not his fault though I was totally complicit and I think if I in terms of summing up what my relationship to relationship says. Is just a lot of like thinking I needed one and now looking back thinking I needed a serious relationship to be accepted as a cool person in the world. But looking back, it's like no one was judging you that hard a but be now that I'm in one, it doesn't make me any different person. It doesn't make me a better well, I don't feel like I'm a more valuable human in society and like I really value my independence through my twenties actually in hindsight. So I don't know it's just it was like just a lot of being single or in weird situations. Enlisted, you have like a diagnosis Tim ear was it similar to what she said Oh? Yeah. Tell me tell me ll be I mean I. Think it's going to be anything but we haven't talked about but. I. I. Did what a lot of us did which was put a lot of power in the hands of the people who like deigned to like us or not like us or data's or not data's stock outs or not WanNa fuck I'm sorry. Can I swear? Yeah I freeze. Say. More of a gorgeous. I think that you know especially as women drug feminism we so often like place our value in like how other see us right? Like it does someone want me does someone wanted to date me get engaged me Mary me whatever all of these things and I think it stops a lot of people myself included from on like really laying claim to what they want and not just being in a mentality, a lack mentality of accepting what is given to them, and if someone's giving you like a something that is less than. What you want I think it's like we're not really trained or socialized to be like I'm no hey, I want this and you're not giving it to me so either give it to me or fuck off and I kind of think that yeah like to me was not used to saying what she wanted and like really demanding it from the people who she was dating I mean one of the reasons that community are closed and one of the reasons we wanted to do this podcast is like that's exactly what I. Did always and even in my current relationship like I almost fucked it up at the beginning multiple times by by not being up front with my feelings and he had to be like excuse me you're not telling me anything about how you feel like you're half in this and that's annoying because I want to be all in that.
00:50:15 - 00:55:06
So can you just tell me if you're in or not and then we can figure it you know I really had to be like shaken by the shoulders and forced to to say what? I wanted from someone. So do you think that's what broke your your pattern? Your bad dating pattern was basically meeting someone who wanted you to communicate more? I think those fifty percent of it maybe sixty percent of it. I think the other amount was going to therapy and building up a lot of self esteem It was something that again I had a I had a really like I have really great incredible parents who I think are kind good people and I have a lot of of privilege advantages in the world. And I still somehow managed to make it to twenty three when I started going to therapy with just like the shittiest self esteem. And, you can't be happy with another person in that position. So it's been a lot you're going to therapy and just trying to not constantly doubt myself and not think I didn't deserve anything good and not think I was like ugly and me and dom and all. So I was gonna say I totally blame like media and bad books because I feel like I can relate so much to what you're saying I remember for years being like Oh I don't want to say anything because I don't want to scare them off or I'll just play it. Cool. That was like the biggest thing it was on. The cool girl situation. It's like I don't want to bring up rock the boat in any way because I would rather have this like bread of a situation, the nothing at all totaling. The toxic. -Ness of that is ingrained. It was ingrained in women. I also blamed cosmo in magazines totally those nineties and early `oughts Rom, coms, and magazines, and TV shows really did a number of off. So the problem really is because you could come from a really good family but that love is portrayed differently than romantic love like the the love you gift from your family is given to you regardless of whether you wanted or not. Right. But for some reason, media society portrays Romantic love as a pageant people shoes you. So therefore, you have to act dress look a certain way to win this pageant in order to be chosen, and that's where that low self esteem comes from. Because as soon as we feel any sort of rejection, we feel like we have not been chosen were being. Left behind. Absolutely I think also it stems from like early like if you don't see that in like high school or even Ling Middle. School when that starting to happen like it builds up that like low self esteem that goes way into your twenties and thirties, which is in potentially even forties and fifties if you don't do therapy and like really try to like do that solve love and this is really getting into the bad dating patterns that you were seeing Kimmy as you went onto this experiment. First of all, how many dates did you go on to meet your current boyfriend and? Thirteen. That's pretty good. But I, I went on thirty two dates I kept going on dates said that. You went off thirty two days and you start seeing some patterns. Let's go through some the patterns where he mentioned one, which is being the cool girl explained to everybody what the cool girl syndrome is. Oh Man. I. Honestly I feel like it takes different forms maybe. So but for me, it was definitely prior to going on these dates. The cool Girl Syndrome on in a broader way was acting like I was cool with whatever level of relationship. But the guy I was dating wanted without asking for what I wanted. I would be kind of passive aggressive about what I wanted and send some texts like that but that's unfair to them as. Well, so that's cool. Girl Syndrome cool. Girl Syndrome for me was not listening to myself and speaking up for myself not even in big ways in small ways and asking for what I wanted like it's okay to want a relationship or the other person is dating other people if that's what she want and vice versa and he wanted to get other people that's fine to the communication. But when I started going on more dates I think the cool girl syndrome kind of or more a mutation of it for me was kind of just going on a date and defaulting to like Oh. Yeah. Let's have that second drink because the other person wanted offered a second. Or? I'm thinking early on because the first dates I went on I didn't have like a great batting average I wasn't getting asked on second dates. And that was storing me into a tizzy and there was like a part of me at the beginning that wanted to just be like, try to ask them on a second date and but I was so cool about all that. All right act like it. You know I don't know I think I just like believed everything coming out of my dates house but nothing in my own head and there was definitely a some meeting in the middle.
00:55:06 - 01:00:01
So I think my girl will actually going on the dates. Evolved from trying to be cool and make every guy I went on a date with me and want a second date whether or not. I want us to go on a second date to like being like this is a mutual decision and sometimes we don't have the same opinion but like let me decide for myself if I like you not just like I want this at the next demanded like me because then that means another checkmark that I'm wearing leary's something. So I, don't know if this happened to. You but I feel like when I was in I was definitely in that same boat that I'm like, I don't WanNa rock the boat I. Just WanNa get that second date like not even thinking like do I even like this person I feel like I don't know if you can relate to this but I feel like when you're doing that, you're not really showing any of your personality. You're kind of just like blending in and you're just a chameleon, right like you could literally be interchanged with any. Other person did you feel like that? Like did you feel like your personality was showing in retrospect? Were there things that you would have changed? No, it's a good question I that it wasn't showing as much as it could I don't I don't know I feel like you know there's always a fine line on it I I don't Wanna be like my truest self because I don't even know if anyone would ever be with me just like my insecurities and or like strong strong opinions on certain things but. Yeah. I don't think I was doing my personality justice maybe I think if I actually went back to those moments I would totally look at myself as a fly on the wall. Big. That's not you that some other date kimmy or something new and lives awareness a cool girl syndrome show up in a relationship I. Mean I think fit in early stages of a relationship. It's almost like this game of chicken of flake. Who's GonNa talk about exclusivity who's going to talk about who's going to say, I, love you I like who's GonNa bring up meeting parents like who's who's GonNa talk. About moving in together I feel like there can be this I think these exact same patterns can play out in in a committed relationship on the thing of like I'm not going to do this first because he should do it and Blah Blah Blah and I think like I in a previous relationship was super victims like I just was like I'm going to completely lock myself down and just seem so chill all the time. Yeah and like just not be serious about anything and it was my first relationship and I was a baby and whatever it wasn't I was in my early twenties. That was my idea of being someone who was the I thought being someone who is easy to be in a relationship with was like the ultimate goal So I think it can it can appear at any time and yeah, I think we're all just really socialized to to do that. The idea of being a difficult woman is now becoming kind of cool but I think especially. When we were younger, it really wasn't like commune. I recently watched the first season of sex and the city for our Patriot. I'm promise I'm not trying to plug that, but we have been doing some re watches and talking about some of the ROM common media that shape us and. Re watching the first season of sex and the city I was like Oh. That's where I got. I got this shit eating. In this relents. Watch it yeah and so much about it. It's just not telling, Carrie, not telling big how she feels or what she wants or needs, and that was so ingrained in. So for me the you know that's a similar to what can he was saying earlier like being a relationship does not solve your problems it just translates them to a relationship. So if you have a problem talking about your feelings like with a guy, you've been having sex with for a while and you're not sure what it is like it I think is the can be the will be the exact same with someone who you are committed, and if met each other's parents, that's a really good point I used to pride myself. On being called low maintenance, you know if a guy was like really low maintenance if you like, yeah that's right. I was like so proud of the looking back it just translated to me not expressing my needs and telling him how I felt. That's what low maintenance is embiid me forgettable he literally did not have to maintain a relationship with me. Well I think the other piece to is it builds up resentment because no one is that cool like especially if they're getting walked all over, you're not you're just putting up a face that you're cool and I think even translates to I, know for me like I always used to have these rigid I blame this horrible book like why men love? bitches. Never read it, but I've heard corable. Don't ever eat at and I blame that book and it was like you cannot text them for like you cannot be the first one to text. So I'd be like frantically looking at my phone waiting for that person to tax and I'm sure like the energy I gave back like when they finally did was not authentic at all and I know for me personally as soon as I dropped those behaviors that's when things fell into place but I think it goes into the cool girl Stereo type to.
01:00:01 - 01:05:04
WanNa seem overeager. Yeah and it also it all underscores that thing that so many women have internalized, which is which is it's more important to be in a relationship than to be yourself like basically saying, don't be yourself sacrifice that for the good of maintaining a relationship way a romantic relationship every woman I know except for some of the very cool young Gen Z. Women, I know who are so much cooler are different God. Thank God, these methods. What's so crazy these the things we watch and consume really matter so much. But above a certain age, every woman I know has internalized some version of that of lanes impressed some part of your personality and community. Both have said a million times listeners like the right person for you as the person you you meet and immediately you're like, I'm completely myself around to you and it's a feeling that is so. Obvious once you feel it and before you feel it, it's like you have no idea and it confuses men too. So it's like it also plays to that side like when you're the cool girl and everything is fine they can feel when it's not fine or when you're holding something back and expecting them to be a mind reader and know about you guys but I feel like that's when I blown up. Suppressed it for too long or too or just say on it. Yeah. Yeah. Just say because I I mean we're like all Harrow and lies and I we talked very hetero normative on our podcast and often about like women dealing with these pressures which I think just like society in the US, there is a certain pressure on women to find a relationship, but you know when we really zoom out, it's like. Just say it for anyone because vulnerability is different difficult. Even you're not the woman in the relationship or your dating another woman and you're a woman like it's about like when you feel that you're not being true to yourself. Sorry. I'm on some soapbox now like it comes down to vulnerability I, feel like there's just like a culture in the US that is changing but that for so long made vulnerability. Cool. Pounded all this other messaging that we got for me at least and it's like just say it yeah, Julia you put it. So it's so simple and it's so hard because if you don't just say you will explode in rage drunken text. Lose lose situation I used to have an I. still do my friend's husband's would text me and say so and so says, she didn't want flowers for Valentine's Day. Did you think she means it talking about their own wives asking me as a friend and I would have to ask my friend and say you said you didn't want flowers for Valentine's Day, did. You really mean it and she was a it would be nice if you got it without me asking for I. Mean it just stuff like that you don't like just that comes from the princess stereotype like like like Disney movies I feel like that stems from that like someone's sweeping you off your feet like all that shit that's just not a realistic relationship. Yeah. You're right. We just have to just say it. You're not losing there's no winning or losing a relationship. You're just trying to get your needs met both of your needs. Yeah. I. Feel like I lost way more when I didn't say things and these half relationships because they dragged on forever and my life was tortured it was so painful. Very painful. I know in the grand scheme of my life I look back and be like you know that was so hard. I could never relive it. But in moments it was and I could have saved myself that torture had I more clearly stated I want to be in a relationship with you rather than why aren't you see me this weekend. Thanks, right. So let's talk about your half relationships because I feel like that's another one because I. Don I was definitely guilty of this I- overstayed relationships that clearly were not relationships when guy would flat out say he didn't want to be in a relationship I'm like, why did I stay in that? Did that happen to you situated? Yes situation ships whatever we yeah I like situation ships. That's good. Yeah. I feel like you know and Liza it was a great friend through this listening to so many things and you know I've been a friend in other moments but it's you know you can't be talked out of something it wasn't like it happened with every guy but like I would especially, if there were a lot of boxes that were being checked which. I feel very embarrassed about but like we get along, we have the same interests like I'd get kind of box CECCHI before I'd be like, but does he always make me feel comfortable you know and I think some of the situation ships they the the man the hell party could have been a little better of a job because it was very clear. I was giving up all the signs and like light wording around like. With your, where's this going? And they were kind of half asked answers back I think when you actually get a full I can't be in a relationship with you. It gets a little easier but. I don't know I. I'm just babbling now because I'm going back to these times and like what was I doing? I I've been there before when someone has explicitly said that, but there is still something in my mind that was like I'm gonNA prove him wrong. Why? Why did I do that? So fucked up but that's like it was a reality.
01:05:05 - 01:10:06
It did happen it at a certain point. Yeah. You know what the thing is for me I can't be friends with that person then but he might want to be. and. Then it might feel good to talk to him and catch up, and then I might get flirty and then it made me feel like there's something that's going to happen and it was just a circumstance and that is where if I trusted my gut like if someone is not interested, they're not interested in religion it doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. It's like just take them at their word because. Yeah Did you have any situation ships or anything like that I mean I did I had one? In which I was kind of the asshole. I had a lot of really really massive crushes and like the guy just never liked me back like. A huge crushes on friendships that I think liked me at all. It would have quickly become a situation ships that we would have start started sleeping together, and then I wouldn't be in the same, but they just never really wanted to sleep with me. So it just didn't quite get there but I did have one where the guy was more invested than I was which was like A. Situation to be in, and so I kind of found myself in this position of having kind of sympathy or empathy for. Empathy. Because I don't like how I acted in this situation I think basically, I got into a place I found myself able to relate to some of these because I got an a place where I was this guy likes me a lot and he's hot and he's like really nice to me gets me nice gifts like super like attentive and sweet and like in a way that no one. Had ever, been. Ben To me. He was like expressing that he was catching feelings and I just wasn't I just didn't feel like we had I didn't feel like He. I connected super. Emotionally I thought it was just kind of like he was nice and fun down for anything we had good chemistry and I was like great. This is cool like I'll tell them I. don't want a relationship like we. Can Keep it chill and I think I let it go on way longer than I should have knowing that he was developing feelings and I don't think I felt any responsibility to him because I thought I had made my intentions clear and I think that what I learned from being an opposition on that side of the situation ship is like you absolutely have responsibility to the other person like it's. Just you know just by saying like sorry like I like you but I don't really I'm not really in a place to be in a relationship. I was recently off a break up and I was kind of you know using writing on that and then the guy just got out of a relationship and I just I just want to keep things casual like I don't want to be exclusive that. It was unkind I regret doing that. So why do you think you did it 'cause I feel like there is like the why? Because I can pinpoint why I stayed in that terrible situation ship I do air quotes relationship. Why do you think you were on the opposite side stringing someone are long it made me feel good to to have someone who was really interested in me and I didn't have to be I didn't have to I didn't have any stakes in it and like I. I hate admitting this it does not make me sound like a good person. I feel really really bad about it eight years later or whatever seven years later. But I think that again I was at a time where I didn't have the highest self esteem and it made me feel good and it made me feel like worthy and it made me feel like I was normal and all these crushes I had had where the guys I Kimi was front and Center for several of these crushes. Two or three massive crushes on friends that were innocent Moore friend group Lake Kimmy and like she knows them and I would pine after them and there was just no interest. So it was kind of you know it was Yo know we. Think we can call it but. I was always like go for it. You know they always say though is that fuck boys have really low self esteem. Like you were saying I don't I don't think you're alone by any means in that like I'm sure there are so many people that of strong someone along they wanted that balloting Bennett. And I think it's the reverse to lake love to hear your thoughts on this. But the reason I stayed in a bad situation is because of self esteem to it was still better to have someone that no one and like there was a little bit of crumbs that like you thought that you could like turn it around and I think at least for my situation too key. Started as the one super interested then flip the script on me. So I want to regain the power was like all traveling Paolini trip exactly totally having the power is yeah. It's a big thing and it was honestly I think a big reason I did stay in that was because I had never in my entire life had the power in a relationship or any kind of romantic element. And in having it I was like well, this is never going to happen again. So I may as well you know enjoy it Blah Blah Blah at the wrong thing to do, and also what alternately realized was like Oh in a good relationship it doesn't feel like someone has more power feels like you're in rice together working it out but I didn't know that.
01:10:07 - 01:15:03
So but also I'll just give some credit like I think actually always you brought up the situation when I would be kind of upset about my situations and it really helped me realize it's not like good versus evil villain. It's not who is it was incredibly interested. You were really interested in him at the beginning like had fun with him. It wasn't like you know militias are some militias people out there don't get me wrong but I don't like anyone I dated or who's Strung me along with like actually as evil as made them out to be in my mind it was all about my own battle with power and accepting that I was maybe worthy of love someday I don't know I. Think it was what you said Kimmy earlier to lease like how I viewed it. It was better to be with someone that no one because you're fed that you should be in a relationship and now you something to talk to your friends about now you have like. Drama that's exciting and all this stuff, and in reality you're actually like doing yourself a huge disservice staying with this person that has no interest in a relationship with you because then you can't meet someone else. But in the moment, it feels like you're like fitting in more I think yes. Fitting in just that I could have someone to talk about in the conversation and not feel like another year can us not even? Well, there was always someone I'd like maybe gone on a date with but there's a lot of shame even around leg early in my New York years I babysat these adorable girls who I'm so like my little nieces. And they was like wait, where's your boyfriend? Where's your boyfriend and I look back in? Well, the messaging is still there problem because they're definitely jazzy. But they were really the time. It was very sweet. But I think. Looking back and fine fucking easy for me to say because I am really happy in the relationship I'm in right now and so it's really easy for me to say but I am so if I could tell myself anything, it's like just give that up if oh, great relationship comes along that. You don't have to you can work for but not like fight for before it's even a relationship then if something great comes up otherwise Like if anyone like especially in my twenty s be single like I, don't know that sounds antithetical Ahmad gas, but it's like. Dating sucks have all the experiences have the learnings? Baldur's gate your heartbroken by Sivarasa maybe up to break someone's heart by accident I don't know but like don't worry about being in a relationship also, it's twenty twenty a terrible year but things are changing nobody fucking cares when you get married now. Well, that's some some people's families have a lot of pressure on them, etc. But I don't know I'm just like why would they fed that? My life would be like so much better the partner it is great. I. Love my partner partner I hate Saint Bernard my boyfriend I love him. I'm so happy to have him but. Like I really believe in like having a lot of alone time in your twenties being single and independent. So that's my diatribe. Yet. I mean the problem with like jumping from relationship to relationship or placing too much emphasis on being relationship is that you end up jumping into other people's lives and you forget who you are. You don't have an identity and you haven't to your own life. So when you're alone again, it feels really amplified because all of a sudden you're you've lost your life basically because you defined your life by the partner you're with and that's kind of like the dependency problems that were facing too. But I guess another we we should talk about this next bad pattern you're saying which is very similar is. Staying fixated on boys. We talked about this in like staying in these situations ships how do you move past this though? Yeah. I don't know why. It was like literally making podcast forcing myself on dates realizing I had to say in the matter to and then meaning someone who like the podcast wasn't even dealbreaker for not that it really in big ways for anyone else they found out early on it was for one guy I felt really badly I want to like bail and again I had probably not talked about someone so loved lovingly. And, we talked about that for a long time at the top of the. Have justified but he was like things compliment just heard the podcast I would just not be able to hear about you dating other people so I probably an you know I think I'm not gonNA totally criticize what we did because we still do it and I think there's a way we it's very anonymous. It's more about like our daters experiences but anyways I think for me breaking my habit had to do with going on more dates because that's not something I did but we have a lot of listeners people in our facebook group who are like I'm going on I. Did fifty one days and it didn't work and I don't want it. It's like I. kind of it came from my therapist for me and we did like podcast about it and it's really worked out for some people who wanted relationships but I think it's about like breaking your bad habits specific. So yeah well, you could go on fifty one dates that are exactly the same. Then you're doing exactly the same thing it's not reflecting it.
01:15:03 - 01:20:09
All right. It's about progressing through those fifty-one dates and I actually think about advice that your mom gave. and. Which one with that? I've ever you saying that you have to think about like this is going to be like if you're having this much trouble now like if you have to like four someone to hang out with you or to pick up the phone or text you what happens in the big ship comes down the road and I think that has stuck with me in general. I think your mom and other people have said this to it's like just being. Realistic about like what a relationship is and not just getting. So fixated on a person but rather like what does this like ideal relationship look like more yeah I feel like I guess my advice would be like like get rid throughout your checklist. We've like shit on manifesting a lot and I know that's not a popular opinion. But like I, think you have to like get with yourself and that's important but then there are some really shallow. This is not. Boyfriends from Florida and I was like you're at Florida man like he's originally from Florida and I still tease him and it's awful and I love lots of people from Florida but you know that's the bad route. That's right now. especially. Now. You Know I. Have now learned that there are very beautiful parts of Florida. Just wear mask. No I guess. That's like a very embarrassing thing to admit but like little things like that would not be a deal breaker for me but I would build up some weird story around who I who am I to say I should be with deserve like. I've got all my own mike that's not a flaw again I'm really myself and whole ear but like even their other little things like I think around interests like like if you feel like you have to be so on the same page about like, I, feel like music I'm not even that into music but I'm more into music I've liked bonding with and going to concerts with people I've. dated. My boyfriend not been in a music but that can't be a dealbreaker like he treats me like gold and I love him like I I think the list, the checklist for me was like that changed things like making a new checklist about like how do I feel comfortable or do I feel anxious this person do I feel like I can be myself or do I have to be? Put together. Kimmy, that is from sex in the city Carey. That's a good point because I think when you fall for like the fuck boys or the people that you want to be with that, don't want to be with you. It's usually for superficial reasons like they're hot or funny or like something like that not how they make you feel obviously didn't make you feel that they were they were they fit your checklists. It's that guy that you know has education you want the background do you want the job that you've been looking for and then for some reason we discussed so Like we stuck on that and then we can't move past it. An we hit poses is a question for facebook group we do. Would you rather a lot and the would you rather was? Would you rather date someone who is like the stock market or someone who's like savings account? So a stock market is volatile potential high gains, high maintenance or Savings Account, which is potential lower returns, but you know it's low maintenance and then they're very stable and the majority people chose what do you think savings account same account but the majority of people date the stock market because that's exciting I think that's what fuck boys provide you put more investment into them but then you see those high returns they spike, but they also crash I, think it also comes down to like where you are dating though like I know when I was in this situation, my best friend was like, do you really WanNA relationship? Because all your actions are not pointing to that like you wouldn't be with this person and I think sometimes you just have to go through it i. wish by situation was like the re months not almost two years that is like my one regret but I'm glad I went through it because I would never tolerate that anymore it's just like if someone was like I, don't want to be in a relationship with you it'd be like I don't want to be in a relationship with you either like there's no way I would do that again ever. And it's so if anyone is out there going through right now, like the I thought there was never going to be a light on the tunnel I thought I'd never get over. Two of these and then you do and you learn so much that is the Silverlake will you learn? You can change someone I think that's the biggest thing that has been learned is like I thought I would I would win him over and I would make him do something he didn't want to do and win the winning is really the detriment. We have to remember that fuck boys are fucked voice because we let them be fucked boys I can guarantee you that. Our boyfriends have been fucked boys at some point in their life to other women, and if we allow them to be fucked ways, they will be so I think that's also the on us. We can't tolerate this behavior and when you see it, you call it out and then you say no to it will that goes to the earlier one being like the cool girl like if you don't have any expectations of someone, they're gonNA just like human nature to do the bare minimum to get what you want for.
01:20:09 - 01:25:04
Sure. I like how so I I think this is a good way to get into takeaways because I liked how in one of the interviews that you to did. You talk about dating as if you're going to a random birthday party and I really loved that made set. It keeps you open and it keeps you stop thinking about focusing on like a romantic connections, more about these humans and I also really appreciate the fact that you talked about these women, these men that you went on dates with as humans and not like date number five or bachelor number six they they are humans so I really. That's one huge takeaway for anyone who's struggling right now with dating fatigue is that you if you keep an open mind set and you keep being curious about the humans that you're meeting, you're guaranteed to have a really good time. It doesn't mean that you're going to have a romantic connection, but you're going to learn a lot. I also learned that. We need to stop looking and start feeling and I always say. I hate saying looking for love because how do you know what you're really looking for and what you were saying to like with a checklist? How can you really put into words? What is the per? Who is a perfect person for you but we can feel things. So how does his date make me feel how did how does he make me feel when he says this does this. So we need to just keep feeling and stop looking and the third takeaway I have is C. G. S. Cool Girl Syndrome. You know like restless leg syndrome they'll be like your symptoms are you feel? And you can't stop moving your like if you feel that you have symptoms of cges coming on, you need to stop right there and give yourself a dose of medication and say I need to stop with this CG, s will always hurt you. You'll always end up not being fulfilled. Voice your needs, you're actually putting your deep prioritizing your needs for your partner before the human do it so if you're experiencing. Just catch your symptoms there and just fix it like right away I. Think my biggest. Is I mean. Sometimes it's hard because we don't talk about this stuff like out in the open like we talk about our shitty situations but we don't talk about why they're happening and the deeper reasons for like the psychology that makes us stay in bad situations or makes us not be afraid to ask for certain things and I think there's something about hearing that it's not just you in that other people go through this and that is normal in a way that like you can break out of it like. This isn't something that you're in forever and we also really seeing we're comes from like recognizing that it was a lot of the stuff that we were spooned Fred from an early age and kind of giving yourself a little grace on it that you can like move past that and I think just also having like empathy for the other people the other sexes wherever else you're dating that they're going through similar things to it may not be identical to what you're doing, but this isn't just like. You're not the only person that's feeling. This way I think is the best way to put it, and sometimes you just have to go through a bad experience learn what you won't stand for I think it becomes problematic just repeating the same things over and over again like we talked about if he went on fifty one I states and you never like reflected on them, then you might not have really shifted those patterns but as long as you're like becoming aware and making changes, the best thing that you can be doing in, it's not like there's an endgame of must be in relationship mice must be married. It's like how do I feel confident with myself and I? Stand for behavior that makes me feel good and I treat myself with love and respect knots shit basically. Don't from anyone. Even me when I should on Florida. Sorry. Any other pieces of advice for any of the daters out there or people in relationships were having a hard time voicing their needs. I mean for the daters I always like to remind people that it should be kind of fun and you know you talked about this too about. The birthday party thing go to it just everyone is interesting. Every single person has something interesting and if you treat a day as an opportunity to get to uncover the interesting thing about the person, even if it's like even if you show up and they seem like the most boring person on earth, it's like there's something going on there and it's a to me I'm like I'm like a I love talking and I, love other human. So I love trying to like pull someone's personality out and figure out what they're about.
01:25:04 - 01:30:06
And I think that if you can approach it as a fun a fun opportunity on, it will be less scary. I'm not saying there will never be feelings and never be like bad moments, but it will be it will be more exciting. I think. I think you can like make dating, but you don't have to make it at crazy project and you definitely don't have to do podcast about it. But I have a friend to support you through it. Don't hold you hold you accountable. That's what you want. But like I'm so grateful without lies without the podcast I would have easily lost Stephen. Also, it's okay to lose Stephen Stop dating. We used to do a thing right after my first impression of the day we call it a taxi cab confession and record voice note on the way home from the date. Oh. That's So actually our our most recent data Olivia, her friends were listening to the podcast regular end sending each other their own taxicab confessions, and that's when like she sent us one and we were like we just connected and we asked her if she wanted to come on eventually but. I would also say I was thinking more because I drew a blank. When you ask for advice, I think like baby steps if you're if it's about like speaking up for yourself more and remembering that you don't have to wait till, you're treated like shit to speak up or test out that muscle you can do it like if you had a good I ate like this was big lies. It was like I feel like we talked about this but lies are really encouraged me to ask dudes out on dates if I felt like. It well, so my therapist and even that tiny moment of just you know, I, think this date went well. So I'm going to send a text just floating out like, Hey, do you want to hang out again some time like that was a a one tiny way of speaking up for myself that I had never done before even if I had a great first date, I was just waiting waiting waiting. So that's my thought I love that it could even be something. So simple like I had a good time you can do like A. Really small baby steps with that I. Think another final takeaway I had that Liza. You reminded me of it's like this doesn't stop with dating like this is yourself like this is something that's going to be like a muscle that you need to work in all types of relationships whether that's romantic friendships family like work like this is just being real and authentic and I think it's not being afraid to say things but learning how to say things in a way that brings you closer to people in not just make you resentful yup absolutely. I. Mean you can even take a step back from dating and just go to a restaurant if you get food that's a little salty ask for them to take it back. How many times have you gone to a restaurant didn't get the meal that you wanted and still pay for and didn't say anything I. Think it is our right to to start defining what we like in our preferences and to ask for that, ask for exactly that that's that's how I been practicing at least in my own personal life just being really annoying with. That issue restaurants what you've never had a rush. You've never had a meal where you're like item like this have I would send it back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like biting my tongue with it but yet with dating for whatever reason, I like always bit my tongue. So I think it could be even the most like outspoken people can still have trouble when it comes to romantic relationships with this totally for sure. Well, thank you so much lies in Kimmy you for coming on our show. Thanks for having US on your show. It's so much fun sharing these learning's and talking about the big J the journey. Wonderful. Thank you so much yet. You guys so much for having us It's been so fun to talk to you in for anybody who wants to catch up on all these episodes that they reference. You can find fifty one first dates on anywhere that you can consume podcasts. Basically, you likes Kimmy, Liza in you. WanNa also help us get more guests like him. Ian Lies Ever member to leave us a rating and review only takes two seconds to leave that rating and goal is such a long way for both of our podcast. please. Do it all. In one sitting it's weird system a really really help things. Again, we're going to wrap this up stay. ooh, harmonizing at its best. dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Five more podcasts you'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts want to continue the conversation I follow us on. Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tag any post with the Hashtag, stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts. Then head over to our website dateable podcasts, dot com there you'll find all the episodes. As, well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums, Roseau downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast, Google play overcast stitcher radio, and other podcasts platforms.
01:30:06 - 01:30:13
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