S12E9: Make Dating Fun Again w/ Jeff Harry

Dateable Podcast
April 6, 2021
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April 6, 2021

S12E9: Make Dating Fun Again w/ Jeff Harry

We often hear 'dating is like a job' or 'dating sucks'....but it doesn't have to! We're chatting with positive psychology coach and play expert Jeff Harry about how to see dating as play and have more fun in the process.

Make Dating Fun Again

We often hear 'dating is like a job' or 'dating sucks'....but it doesn't have to! We're chatting with positive psychology coach and play expert Jeff Harry about how to see dating as play and have more fun in the process. We discuss how shared experiences form deeper connections, why playful doesn’t have to mean surface level, and how anyone can turn on their playful side at a comfort level that works for you.

Follow Jeff at @jeffharryplays and learn more about him at his website:

Read his article about how to see dating like play:

Thank you to our partners for this episode:

BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month of online therapy at with the code DATEABLE

Apostrophe: Get $15 off your first visit with a board-certified dermatologist with the code DATEABLE at

Episode Transcript

S12E9: Make Dating Fun Again

00:00:01 - 00:05:02

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hallo everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we dig into the wise of people's behavior when it comes to dating including your own behavior every week we're like this was an eventful full week. This week was not that eventful. Yes that's good. I feel like we got to a point in this whole cycle that we're like you know what we could maybe do. Our insurance not as close to the day that we put out the episode because things aren't changing as fast. We've stabilized embed like the last couple of weeks like nope. We gotta bring it again. So it's nice. It's nice when things aren't going crazy in the world. I had an epiphany julie. Just tell you what happened. This past week And related to stop asian. Hey hey tag. If you're on youtube you can see right behind me Just having a conversation with a few friends and we're talking about big brands and whether they should put out a message on recognizing what's been happening in the us and in in the world with all the hate crimes and some brands feel like they. It's not in their place. They should be more uplifting positive. I thought about this quite hard about it. Because i thought back during the elections. You were on tiktok you. You're looking at the other political party. Yep and you are then fed all this information that was supporting the opposite political views. And how surprise you were by it. And i thought about the same thing where we live in our own echo chambers so some of us who may not watch tv were the news everything we see on the internet. It just feeds into your own echo chamber so some people and this is shocking to me have no idea what's going on with the with the asian hate crimes. They may not have seen any news around it because it's not in what's filtered in their infant in their ecosphere right. It's not on the radar of most of my white friends. I'll be completely transparent. I don't know like everyone out there. It's on my radar. Because i have a lot of asian as you know the one white girl the what asian asian but i have other i have a bunch of circles of friends and i have some circles that are white women in others that are more diverse and mixed in those circles. It's top of mind in the ones that are purely white women. It doesn't come up ever going to be honest. you know so. This is so good for us to know because just because you're seeing what's happening doesn't mean everyone in the people who should be seeing. It are not actually aware of what is happening in the world. This is my call out to all the big brands out there. For example. if you're a pepsi you're not a news organization. You're not concerned the media your posts would not be filtered out right up so if you do bring awareness to what is happening with the asian. Hate crimes with black lives matter. It is important for you to put out something about it because your post will not be filtered out to the people who should be seeing it. That's just my one requests for all the big brands and for anybody who thinks big brands shouldn't have a stands. They absolute should and bring awareness to the current events yet. It's a really hard line because like i. One of my favorite podcasts. Outside ice they get a lot of flack for being political and saying statements. Like this and i mean they actually had a recent gas that was talking all about asian hate crimes being asian in america right now and they get a lot of flack because they're dating relationship comedy podcast and you know i on one hand get that like a lot of like commenter like come here for relief. I don't wanna hear about this stop. I can hear about in the news but then on the other hand i totally get why it's like we have a platform especially you as an asian woman. It's like i want. He is by platform for good. And i get it. But i see both sides of it because i i am sure we out there that love hearing this stuff and a bunch of people in our facebook community actually reached out said how like they loved the last couple intros. But i'm sure there's other people out there that are like just get the dating topics. That's why get air you. Now i get it in our house and migrant. Emily posted this. And i just want to read it The first task of the activists the invisible visible so whether you agree with our platform or not elise were bringing awareness to what's happening.

00:05:02 - 00:10:08

It is the responsibility of any influencers. Were anybody with a platform out there. Especially the these big brands to just simply bring awareness late to what's happening totally. And i actually put up a post. I think this was like you are kind of just like in the thick of all the stuff that was happening. This was like at the very beginning. And i just put up a post in our group that being like all our asia like dateable families egypt listeners. Like we were here. We're sending you love. We see you and people's reaction was just like thank you like a lot of our asian listeners. Were like thank you for putting that out there. This community has been so much more than just dating and relationship advice. And i think like the way i've been thinking about a to this isn't like they kinda clicked with this revelation but yes were a dating a relationship podcast but ultimately were all about finding love like be a happy. That's the end goal. I think you. And i've talked about this at the beginning of this podcast. We thought we'd be talking about all these stories. You know like an effort. We never thought we'd be talking about you. Know dating yourself in self love and all that stuff and i think it is a larger picture and i think community belongings feeling belonging is a huge part of you know dating and relationships even though it feels like it's not related because you're not technically like dating these people. I've been thinking about this. A lot like actually went to south by southwest virtual and there was a lot about this feeling of belonging right now in community and tech for belonging and to be honest. This is actually like I feel like life mission in a way because even before dateable i was doing five hundred branches that essentially brought people together. I think i just like have a strong passion in. Not just a romantic Sense just in general of bringing people together. I was thinking about this for myself. And i'm like yeah. Of course. I wanna partner. Of course i do. But i'm also okay now like i have more than enough people that i talked to at a daily basis. I feel a sense of love with community whether that's our own facebook community and dateable community but also like my community in san francisco and like all the friends. I have the family. I have like all that. And i think if you're coming from that place you don't fall into these traps of just sticking with these people that treat you like shit for like months and months and months so i do think it all connects and also when you have a sense of belonging that hate dissipates because at hate is replaced by love and you're able to date without hate and when people don't feel like they belong that's when they dig themselves into this dark hole of misery of negativity media Of of just hate a you know. For whatever reason from their past in their dating traumas so it is so important to find a place that you belong and you have a support system so we can start to date without hate yet. I mean it's actually a perfect tie into this week's episode. Basically is episode. Oh it's the fun back into like need it. And i think it really does stem from where you are. If you're filled with love in abundance in all other parts of your life you just look at that person as someone new year meeting not like. Oh my god. This person needs to fill this gap. That's within me this void in that. And that's where the pressure comes in. And that's when you're like doing the mental checklist and going on the view. And you're not able to just have fucking fun like that's the goal and hard that fun. You have to understand what it's like to bring play into dating and interrelationships into your life. So we have this expert on. He really is the expert in play which just means he is a professional kid. And he's able to help us uncover that playful almost childish side and bringing more lightheartedness to these this really challenging time in our lives and again like what you're saying julie dating should be fun. There shouldn't feel like a job it should feel like a chore. Shouldn't be like a burden. How can we make this experience. More fun for us. Totally and jeff. Harry is his name. We actually met him through the most notable contest he was a supporter of what of our contestants. Tim and he actually works with our events producer. Louise so there is a connection like they're both in the place space. I still think when. I hear place still think play parties sacks i need to get my mind donald the guttural. It'll just keep it there. Why i guess technically bet is play. Because it's all about ration- right that's to play parties. But yeah that's a tangent i think you know with play. I personally for me like someone that's playful has always been at the top of my like qualities. It's not even like something. I've actively seek out people that i've messed with really well. I would describe my most recent super playful that. I think what i've learned to is. That doesn't mean that there's not a serious side just because you could act like a kid in like i think sometimes people like a kid like behavior with immaturity.

00:10:08 - 00:15:03

But i don't think that's always the case. Like i think sometimes when you are so deep and so much sure. It's draining and boring like i was on dates recently that i'm just like i need to like go home because i mentally drained because we've just been like airing out our dirty laundry hearing about like x.'s. And like you know your past like there's a time at a place for that but first day just fucking have fun and get to know each other fucking. Have fun and have good etiquette. Can we last august. I knew it'd be controversial. We talked about modern dating etiquette and this instigative many discussions in our facebook group. One of them being this idea of them requesting your dane after the date. And i got it handed to Loreto here okay. So she wrote something that i can totally resonate with. She went on a fabulous date with someone at. They went hiking great banter and she started lose interest the minute he asked to lit the bill over them. Oh he was like. Let me get this first. But then i'll then them a requesting for the half there's just something so like so petty and so unromantic about that. I'm i used to jill. You know in the beginning. I to be all about the man paying for the day i have now shifted. I think it should be equal like fifty fifty but to me that means taking turns wanting to pay for the want not the need but the want to want want to pay for your date and to put a smile on their face to be like i got you like this is mine and then i know they're going to get my next meal or whatever venture but the minute. Someone asked me to split the bill. I totally agree. My heart just goes like a throws up a little bit. What leaks is so difficult is that everyone is a different point of view like sonia. Remember i kinda like bed vo. It's pragmatic it's practical. So that's what makes it really hard. Is you have no idea where this other person is coming from. I logically get the fifty sharing expenses. Fifty fifty i totally logically get it. But there's something still within me that i cringe when the guy doesn't pay the first stage i get there's something about it and i know that's old school and i know it shouldn't matter i think the this also it's like how you say it too because i have this one situation where i remember so well it was like when i was doing five hundred branches so i was not making much income at all if any startup mode and i was on a date and we went to the super expensive wine bar he picks and i did like the fake purse reach at the end. He's like you know what. I'll get it because you're bootstrapping right now. A lot of buddy was like that is not what i while i if you were just like. I'll get it. Because i had a really good time with you. It's just like it was so unattractive appealing and then i actually ended up fighting it because i did not want someone to pay for a pity in that i got stuck with this massive bill wasn't i shouldn't pay for what was i doing. It was like my ego. Got away but it was so insulting. I totally totally done that like they. They asked if i want to split it. And unlike i'll just get it i'll just pay for you fucker like you all right. I didn't i didn't pay for it. I saw Yeah it was still absurd. For what i was making at the time and i've also heard from men that they could be on a really great date and when they When the bill comes in if the woman doesn't even offer to pay start to lose interest hold. There is that too i get the other side too. It's like how many dates do you go on. The never see that person men that are like in theory of women are making the same money or around the same. Why should they be picking up the tab every time i totally get it. That being said there's still that like subconscious and you know i was talking about with janice what our moderator just a sidebar convoy. And she's like what like women. Beer more child's bering even like in relationships where matt lake men are doing a lot of the work. It's still falling more on women so she's like we can get treated to a dinner so you know it's like there is that side of a two and again you could argue that in many different directions. It's just it's such an interesting topic. Yeah because it. I don't like it when the conversation turns petty. It's more like there should be a fight to pay for the bill. Not a fight to try to split the bill. I want to go out with someone where i'm so. Enjoy their company so much. I want to show my appreciation. And i want to pay for their meal or their drink. You're right everybody has their own stance on it. There's no right or wrong but there is something about like asking to split the bill.

00:15:03 - 00:20:02

That just really. Kind of grosses me out. Now gonna lie. Grosses me out. I think for me. It's like the beginning. I'd love it if someone picked it up on like the first couple dates or even the first one even the second like find. Let's split it or i'll pick it up like the first one. I do wanna feel a tree dead. There's something that's like deep rooted by feminine. Like the way. I grew up as a woman i feel like i had an axe that paid for everything like all the time. In to be honest he probably shouldn't have been but he wanted to in. I don't think that's necessarily necessary Actually feel like kinda guilty about it like now but it's like what are those things that you know to him. He was like. I wanna do this. This is my way of protecting providing for you. So it's i think it all stems back to people's deep rooted like beliefs on it and i do think older people myself included as an elder millennial have more traditional views on it. I think it's just come with time. Yup i had this conversation with my boyfriend earlier today. And he's like. I think the younger generation is more about the even split totally. And they're okay with it but when you mix the oldest young on a date. That's a little bit weird. Like if i went out with someone that was like in their early thirties early twenties. I probably have to expect that. I'm going to have the brochure. Yep just yeah. It's changing times. But i agree. It's how you deliver that. It's not like hey want to split this. I'm gonna ride request you so while we're talking about etiquette ed you know play. I did want to share this message. I got odd hints boy. I don't normally share messages. You get my coffee. Flash vodka actually feel like this is just play gone wrong. Playfulness is great. But we talk about this on the episode. You kind of to match each other's energy on play. And i was thinking about it like you can bring playfulness into very early. Message isn't flirting and all that. But the problem is sometimes you don't know the person in their tone in just message and i think i mean i've said this before people disagree with me personally so anti these witty clever opening lines on dating apps because i think they fall short a lot of times. Because there's no tone in knowledge of this person so this is what i got. I have a photo of myself in the saracho costume. And i probably should actually take this down. Because it's a little old at this point. But i think part of why had it up is because had like some prompt that like my favorite costume was saracho. Everybody like oh why. Don't you have the photo of their great photo. and i. it was a great photo. And i think it does bring my playful side out because i do love halloween. It's my favorite holiday costume right. I did. I made it myself. But anyways i think it's it's retired. Dow because of this comment is for me over the edge with it but also it's time to retire this as a fun but this was the comment i got on it and i'm sure he was trying to be like funny and witty none another. Just go into the coffee. You're like trying to try to help him out. Like i don't think is attention was bad. It just came off so gross. I'd like to twist your cap off in score you all over my news. Oh and then. There's an emoji of noodles in a crying laughing. Oh okay nudes like noodles like he was trying to be like twist on words twists squirt and nudes. Should never be consented together with your. That's your opening line. Think it was also like he didn't message me late night. But i didn't check the app. So what i actually did check. It was like nine. Am in the morning. And that's what i got so you have to also remember the state of mind someone might be in when they're receiving it like i opened my phone. I was like you like. I like my stomach. Like threw down the phone. Because i was so repulsed by it. Yeah i mean that's like a comment you can make after dating for a little bit and you know each other's sense of humor is it. Comes off curry big square issue. Just nobody should use the word score. It's like the word motel those to where it should not be used when you're just start taking some if you're in person in your like laughing and you're like i want scored on your like joking like i think that could be. It could even take the way you just set it. Russell literally really just thinking about like some of i. I don't think my ex's would have said that. I have thinking about like if they were to say that. Would i be grossed out. I don't know if i would have. But i think just seeing that intact i definitely was. Yeah grossed out regardless. Do you remember the time when i was on tinder. And this guy just a we had back and forth with emojis. He was super playful in the beginning. I was like the skies funny. He's very clever and witty and then he was like so. I'm just curious. How do you feel about. He put tongue emoji and an eggplant emoji. Some like jobs.

00:20:02 - 00:25:01

I mean there. I don't have any particular feeling about that. But i've done them and then he's like great. So how do you feel about the. He put tongue emoji eggplant emoji n. Another talk and i had to ask like whose tongue is that second tongue. And he said oh. So you're asking how i feel about both of us sucking the same dick. That is not no longer play for me. That's just borderline wacko like we haven't been met. I wanna give them credit though is but if you know if you put that aid tax you would have been pulse but because with emojis he got gotta you gotta conversation started. You put on my podcast hat. I was curious. So i asked him what he meant and he actually went into his fetish in how he and his ex girlfriend found someone on craigslist. Suck dicks with a pastime. He just wanted to get out there like are you into this or not. You're not we're not going to move on. Yeah we're moving on. So maybe you're right. Maybe it's better to just put it out there from the gecko. Maybe this guy was like. I'm am really into twisting squirting on your news and if you're not let's not meet up the way he did it. I think he was just trying to be clever. But you know. I think we'll go on this episode. We're obviously going to show how you know you can kind of meet. Someone wear out with play and went to be playful and how to be more playful. So you'll get all that in the episode but this was a quick anecdote of maybe what not to send. Our eight is related to a question. That i wanna bring up so remember. We're doing this new segment will call nude segment. It's like oh oh your end. We're now calling the dude segment every week. Hey you know what if people are listening to this. This is a great way to drive youtube traffic. Hey guys we're doing a new segment. Now come to her youtube page. That is no way the youtube channels gonna grow dahl is nude segment and then we just have censor bars that really an idea anyway. Let's park that for a single. We'll print starve that later. Got one noodle it out a long while the word noodle dow is going to just have a whole. Don't want raanan today. I i was going to get some romantic anyways. So we're starting a new thing. For leonard aerial fast serial music man called Dating of we'll call a date dateable advice where we've gone through the questions that we've gone through or dm's and we wanna pick out some of the ones that keep getting asked and here's one that is actually related to this. Episode person says I've been seeing someone for just a little bit went on a few dates and she doesn't like spontaneity prizes. She prefers to know the itinerary ahead of time. But i want to infuse more fun into our dates. How do i do that without being spontaneous and and scaring her off. I love this question. I have some ideas. Because i'm definitely someone that likes a little planning but i also don't like too much planning. I have some friends where i have to book brunch. Like four months in advance. And that's a little too much for me. But what i would from a date is if they could be like early in the week being like. Hey let's do something on friday. Let's tucson saturday. I'm not gonna tell you what it is. But here's like a hint. Maybe wear sneakers or like whatever like in there is like some sort of you know dress attire because i would also feel uncomfortable if i was taken off guard majorly but i think that could be at an era of excitement to like. What is it that this person has planned. But also not totally throw someone off guard that needs a little more planning and structure. I think people innately do like surprises. But they want to be prepared. Yes well so for me. I would love to know everything they need to prepare for this. I don't need to know exactly what we're doing. But give me the rundown like you said were should i wear. Should i eat ahead of time. What's the weather going to be like. How long will it be. Will i exert a lot of energy or will this be more of a passive engagement. Whatever it is. I just wanna be prepared. I always like to watch those surprise proposals. Dishing no there. She was getting proposed to because she's in full makeup. Like i always like bhai surprise me with other people around him. this is being billed. Make sure that address camera ready for it. Just because she says she doesn't like suspense and surprises doesn't mean it's the event itself she just wants to be set up for success.

00:25:01 - 00:30:07

That's holdouts basically what it is. I think the other piece to even if it's not like this like big plan of like. Hey we're gonna have the surprise day. Let's say you're out for dinner. Let's see where the day takes. The night takes us. Let's go to another bar. Let's go to jill lada shop. Let's go to the park. Impromptu park picnic with why am i. Think you can bring spontaneity that way while you're already out so it's not just dropping something on someone's play either. Yes and it's the gorgeous thing about relationships. You're just trying to get information from each other so in one hand maybe get curious. Why is it that you don't like spy nadya surprises. Maybe there was a surprise. That went wrong in your gas and it comes from some sort of trauma war. Get to a point where it's like okay so you don't like it win You wouldn't like if we crashed a party for example. But you would like it would or would you like it if i told you this and this and we did that. So it's a constantly pushing the boundaries in a safe way of what your partner really means when they say. I don't like something i love that. Just ask you know says it up in then you if someone's like no i really don't want you to plan the surprise like getaway or whatever the don't do it. You know like you have to then decide like how imported spontaneity is or find other ways to do spontaneous activities to surprise getaways. Like whoa that trigger. Something for me. I think on paper sounds so romantic but in reality unlike pack enough underwear the weather gonna be like. Don't bring that up on me. Just tell me what to do to prepare. I don't need to know where we're going to set me up for success. I had a friend that had her boyfriend pack two suitcases. One with cold weather gear at what with where that would literally giving society but for him. It worked out well because he was that type of person. So i think it really is knowing your audience in. I think that's why sometimes these big gestures do kinda fall flat. If you don't know that person well. So i love this like build up to it. Maybe try small things. Maybe it started when you already have a date and then adding a little and then maybe from there. It's added a little more for the idea we had about. You know we're going to do something. Saturday where speakers like. It's just a keep building instead of going in with this huge plunge from day one for sure and also remember fun and playfulness doesn't always mean surprises in. Spothero still have planned. It doesn't have to. I've learned that the hardware hardaway. I love surprises. But my parents don't and i always love to surprise them and they're like stop surprise. Gonna give us you're gonna give us a heart attack the surprising shit. Just tell us what's happening. And i think yeah i love that too. It's like just because you like spont- spontaneity and they know it doesn't mean your relationship is doomed to like it's getting. What is it about spontaneity. That you like is that you just have this. Like level of playfulness and fund. Maybe you can inject that in a different way. Yes really good point so there. You go if you want to infuse a bit of fun into your dates without too much surprises. That's our two cents cool. Shall we get into some sponsors. Yes let's do it. This episode is sponsored by better help. It is no surprise julian. I are huge fans of therapy especially online therapy and better help can do exactly just that they match you with your own licensed therapist and connect you in a safe and private online environment. I was able to start communicating with my therapist in less than forty eight hours. Superfast better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches and it's more affordable than traditional line. 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00:30:07 - 00:35:00

I've seen a drastic reduction in my mask knee. That's mask acne. In case you know in the meantime gift fifty dollars off your first visit with a board. Certified dermatologist at apostrophe dot com slash dateable and user code dateable. This code is only available for our listeners to get started just go to apostrophe dot com slash dateable and click began visit. Then use the code. Dateable a sign up and you give fifty dollars off your dermatology visit. That's a p. o. S. t. r. o. p. h. e. dot com slash dat a. b. l. e. and use the code dat ab l. e. To get your dermatology visit for fifty dollars off awesome. So shall we hear it from the one and only jeff. Harry wu go jeff. Here's the deal dating should be fun right and sometimes we forget that dating should be fun. We treat it like a job. We treated like a chore. We treated like our number one enemy win. Dating is about finding someone that you love spending time with. Why should it feel like a chore so our guest today is here to help us. Bring playfulness back to dating and before we get to. What playfulness means. Because i'm sure there are lots of different definitions of play. I just want to introduce our guest of honor. His name's jeff harry. He's forty two years old currently lives in chicago. He's been there for the past year and half during covid obviously like everyone else. Who's just been somewhere else during covid but he still has a place in oakland. Lookie you at your pita tear from the suburbs of chicago. He's pretty single and he has been taking a ding sabbatical. he's an international speaker. Positive psychology coach and founder of. Rediscover your play where he shows individuals and organizations how how to tap into their true selves to build their happiest and most fulfilled. All by playing. Julie will say the word play. What do you think of. I think of play parties gutter. Our listeners know louise who's kind of like our events extraordinaire and her jaffna each other from the play world and literally every time she says it reverts back think about like play parties like sex parties that we've been to being sad but you it's a much more. Pg rated definition of play. And i think it's interesting as play parties. They'll ideas to get out of your comfort zone. Even though it's actually it still is a form of lay so it makes sense. But i we know that you primarily work with businesses. And that's kind of the people you think of. That are like staffer need to let loose play right but we find it. Indeed irs. And i've curious like what your definition of play. Is that how you see it coming into dating. Sure i define play any joyful act where you are fully present in the moment where there is no purpose. There is no results. You don't have anxiety about the future you don't have regrets about the past you were just like fully inflow like you're fully end zone and win. You're when you're doing that. I guess when you're dating is it's the same feeling where you're like you forget about time. It's where you could be talking to someone for three hours and you know you hang hang up and you because you just in that mode right or you're on a date and like four hours of passed so you know when you're really in that flow in really feel that connection with somebody. That's what i truly feel. People are at play and we know you're currently taking dating sabbatical while you're at your pita tear in chicago but when you're when you are in the dating scene. How have you been able to integrate play into dating. Yes so i. I hate mandates like average dates. I'd rather it be amazing or horrible because of at least it's horrible. It's hilarious and then. I have a story afterwards. But when it's this man and you really know like should i go on the date again or not. And you're like oh gosh like enough mandate so like i want something super unique so even won twice. I did this. I learned this from love. Actually where i took a date where instead of going to the movie theaters we went to sf sfo international airport. We went to the international terminal. We got food and we got flowers and we just watched people get greeted at the international airport and when we felt compelled we would give out flowers to certain people and we were just come up with stories for people and just wonder there waiting for you know it was just like it's a different experience so like i'm all about that. One time and went randomly horseback riding with someone.

00:35:00 - 00:40:00

I had never even met them before. I'm trying to have exp. I'm trying to play experiences because played. Say this quote but you really do learn more about a person in an hour of play than a years worth of conversation so why not have like experiences to actually learn about that person instead of just people talking about what they like to do. What are you just show what you like to do. Because that i feel speaks more volume. I love this idea of the airport. Like was this like an early date over you guys dating for awhile. I need more details early date. Yeah i took two people on that day. I was super interesting. Sf'er staff knows jeff on a regular basis. He's like a regular like here. He is again on his first date. Kicking somebody up. What does the food. Why does he have a whole. So what was your reaction when you're like hey we're going to sf. Oh well she like knew who i was and she was like that sounds super fun. So and that's the other process of it right if you ask somebody to go on this like ridiculous date and they say no. That's a good thing because then you're filter down and who's not down to do this right like imagine if someone that like loves to work. It's soup kitchens. And it was just like my first date's going to be at a soup kitchen so even if it doesn't go well. I know that i have another person. That's doing work alongside me like you would just experienced something brand new when that person. So i'm all about doing. I mean personally for be like someone that has playful qualities is such a turn on like all past like x.'s. Like would describe them as playful. Like that's something that comes to mind have done like necessarily like playful activities as much. But they're selling about their demeanor. That was very playful. Like my most serious acts like broke into song from fiddler on the roof like our first date and then like from then we have like a sheared bond over this movie and other acts like this. It was just like this ridiculous thing that he'd like had like stuffed beers that he was obsessed with and he likes started naming. my pillow. is that resembled payers. We have like this whole like secret. Like love story between my pillows. It his beers. I know that sounds. That sounds cute like. Would you like someone that shit's adorable and out super weird. No it's perfect right because y perfect because it's weird. It's strange nerdy. It's it's everything that we actually are right. I think a lot of times we have as chris. Rock says like our representative for the first date. And it's like hello. This is me and this is what i do for a living. I don't wanna meet. The person adults are worried. Adults are so boring. Not because they're actually boring but because we pretend to be normal when none of us are normal. We're all super weird lead with the weird just to be clear dot come out of the state. It was probably like two three months. But yes i agree with you. I mean i'm all about that. I think i shared you on this one. Tiktok video of someone that was like on one of their first dates of the guy asked his soon to be extra extra. Hello well no but so so. So the date idea was he okay. Picking between one and ten and she was like seven or something goes all right picking number two in one in one hundred ninety four and then he's like all right let's go and she's like where we're going and they went to i think like a goodwill or a salvation army and then it was for seven dollars ninety four cents. He got to. She dressed him and then he dressed her and they went to some really fancy restaurant now. Obviously some people like. I would never do that. But it's just like if you pick your way of playing and if the person is down to do it then you're gonna to learn about them right there and then again just to redefine like plays any joyful act you forget about time right so it can be anything can be play. There's not just certain ways in which this is playing. This is not play. It's all up to you. How you define that. If that's y'all just reading books at the library sweet like you do. I think it's like if you forms a cadet though because it's like an inside joke. It's like inside activity that you're doing with every last date so i love okay. So i'm i'm very. I'm very intimidated by this. I enjoy play in a relationship but in dating. It's a little hard one. Because i'm lazy. I just feel like us go bar restaurants easier and to sometimes i feel like when the play someone create is not suited for me. It becomes daunting oil. Let's maybe you can give some advice around how people can create play. That's customized for their dates right so first off. I hate forced. Plays of someone's like let's play in your life thirty minutes. I don't really care. I don't really want you know.

00:40:00 - 00:45:01

I think it's part of the discussion right like when you are interviewing the person before you meet them you start talking about like things that you find really fun and a fine. What like connects to both of you. Part of the reason why. I mentioned like go weird and be like nerdy because you also trying to filter people out right. You know when. I've been at bars or like cla dance clubs or whatever it would have you. You see the same person. They're the same cross. Fit guy who you know who does finance you like. We've made that guy. We know that guy. I don't want more that guy. And how do you like filter that out. It's through play. It's also about even how you go about meeting people because if we're always going to certain places and that's where we're supposed to meet instead of being like let me just do something right. Let me just go this. Woo camp or the self improvement camp. I've met more people that are closer to my shared values. When i go to something like that then me go into a bar or a whole foods takeout line and just hanging out there. Even though sf chronicle says that's place. I think also a lot of times. it's just organic. It's honing in on those playful muscles like a pretty sure by x. wasn't like planning to sink fiddler on the roof. It just happened to come in. And i think that's like really the key to it because i agree like if it feels forced that it feels like contrived and that's not really play at the end of the day. No everything is even conversation is like i was saying in the article. I just wrote you inspired by the way. So it's like improv. Where it's like you're doing a yes with people. Whatever you have a conversation with them you know you start off. You like hellawell. Who will would he do. You know and you start joking around about something that you appreciate about each other and you're yes ending each other and only what happens when it doesn't feel right is when someone either negates it or just doesn't buy so this is all about active listening and this is all about like electing back what you've heard and all of that is part of the play. I'm not just saying like. Hey you gotta get out there to. La's international terminal tomorrow. That's going to be the debate on. You may or may not show up way right. Oh it could even be the. We're the questions that you ask someone because usually we ask. What do you do for a living. Think that's formal. I'll always ask. When was the last adventure you were on what mischief and people like mischief. What about mischief and some people that. Let me tell you about mischief. So like you don't know but just even the interesting taking a risk and like doing that. Twenty seconds of courage like and trying out something that you're like. Oh i wanna do this. But i'm also i'm kind of nervous cited. I'm both nervous and excited about this. Try this is the way in which you like. You can come up with something. You can co create with this conversation the other day where it turned into like the guy like hooked be with his photos of his corgi but it turned out. He didn't actually have a corgi so he was like corky. Fished you that lake. Became this joke. If he sent me a cat photo the other day now. Your cat fishing me. I think it's because it's like fed off of each other but if one person wasn't into the joke it would've just died at that point that would become like it's about creating these inside jokes but i can also see so. Here's a question. Do you think play is successful with all personalities or do you think it has to be specific personalities. 'cause it i'll give you an example jeff when you came on the zoom and you showed up for people who can't see he's got a clip on bowtie. That's what made out of cardboard mmediately. I turn on my playful side. Because i was like right. Yes this guy is here to have a good time. So i feel like you brought that out of me but is it because i already have that kind of personality where the playfulness may be torment. And it just needs to be like stimulated or do you. Do you think that everybody has has that inside of them. Oh everyone has it. But i feel everyone has a different way right. Not everyone is like extrovert with their place. Some people are very introverted. See i also talk about how plays the opposite of collection and is rooted in shame ego and not looking stupid and peer pressure right like it's all the things from high school that we hated the most. The play is experimentation. it's curiosity and that's what i feel like is a better or just a really more enjoyable way to approach dating or or your whole life because you're able to let go of expectations. Expectations are the thief of and adults. Get so fixed on results and that was why twenty twenty was such a tough year for so many people because on top of all the loss and the pain also they had all these dreams december thirty first. Twenty nineteen right. He's going to happen. I'm going to get married. I'm going to change the world. I'm going to start my business. And then all those things didn't happen right. And when we get fixated so much on that result it destroys the present.

00:45:01 - 00:50:06

It destroys the process. And how many times have you been on a date. And you're like all right you know. This person is shorter. The may in what are going to us when you know you know. How is he gonna look what he's eighty and you're just like whoa ow. Let's just like beep present with what's happening now and just see what's happening and stay in the moment and stay navigating like that uncertainty be comfortable in that uncertainty instead of being like. I need to know the right answer because there is no right answer. It's different for everybody. I think you hit the nail on the head of why play has been sucked out of data especially with apps for their sobe prospects. People are one trying to cut through the clutter and also not get hurt right so they turn to the data view which is basically just like you know a bad interviewer. Somebody's just pressing you for questions and asking you why your last relationship didn't work out where you want to be in five. That's a shitty date. It's not fun like core of that a purchase to get information but you said something interesting earlier you could actually learn more from an hour of play like how do you get people to like rewire their brain on that. What you have to let go the result. That's the biggest one you have to be like. all right. what is what is the purpose of me. Being here is the purpose of me to see if this person checks off. All the boxes or is the purpose of me. Big here to see. If i am enjoying myself like i having fun here like do i trust this person to go into escape from the room and try to get out together. You know like there are certain things that you can actually learn. It's it's funny. That niece focus so much on words right and words is what ten percent of communication tone is like forty percent. Unibody lives around fifty percent or so focused on the wrong thing. We actually think that. If i go on more apps and i interview more people just logically i will eventually find the right person because i've crossed all these other people out baby will or maybe won't but is it fun do things that are fallen and then if someone happens to be then they connect me new sweet but like i'm trying to live my life and then if someone amazing happens to show up then that's great but i think when we're coming from a place of lack right and we're just like oh my gosh i need to find this person and this person is going to fulfil my soul and fill the gap. That's in my heart like man. That's a lot of pressure on you as well as the other person. And then you're gonna have that first date and the first thing you're thinking about is like so you know. Is it going to be a year before we got married like you know like. He's a redhead by one baby. Do i want redhead. Babies ready get i. I get a little concern with when people use the word fun too much gets thrown around. How is the day it was fun. House event it was fun but was it really fun. Probably wasn't it was probably flying but it was fun using the f. word but here's a distinction. I wanna make because. I can also see people thinking. That play is part of entertaining someone. That was a lot of pressure on you. My role here is to entertain my date. But it's not really about that. So an example is my friend has a six year old and during cova schools been virtual so her six year old gets on zoom and. She says she's like i shit. You not for an hour. She's just staring at the screen with her classmates. And they're playing without saying a word each other all they do. Is they bring other toys. And they make eye contact and they do body language or whatever. That's their idea of play. She's like not one word as spoken. That was my blowing for me. Because i think as adults we always assume that we need to entertain with our words and that there can't have silence we gotta keep it going win much of play not entertaining play. Should be about the nonverbal. So maybe jeff you can give us some advice on how to shift that mindset. Yeah so. I think the thing that that is worth exploring is when you have a thought that you think. Ooh that's really exciting. But that also makes me really nervous or that person's going to think i'm weird. Do that thing that thing. And here's the here's the reason. Why because maybe maybe it is. Let's just talk about like the silence thing. let's say it's just like hey. I want our first date. I love to read to read. Let's just go hang out in the park when we're right next to each other. That's the play the play. That's fine again. It's open because you're just trying. You're testing your experimenting. You're trying things out. And i think a lot of times we actually want to entertain the person because we want them to like us. We don't like them. We don't like the we're like well. I want this to go well. Because i wanted some good reviews on on. I don't understand why we dating uber. But like so juliet. I we're talking about how we get really good and interviewing people like we get really good at asking really good questions and also.

00:50:06 - 00:55:02

I'm really good at being vulnerable. So at the end of the day the person is like man and man they jeff shared a lot. He was quite vulnerable. It's like. I said all right buddy by threshold or vulnerability is just more than most people. So i think what i recommend doing is again plays like a dance. It's an exchange and you should be showing them what your type of play is was what your type of interest is so that you're you don't feel like you're entertaining them but you're like hey i'm doing my thing or you're doing your thing. Oh here's what. I love about my thing that ooh what are you doing. Just like the kids do. You're just like kind of curious and then go back to your thing. So then you're staying within yourself and you're not trying the reason why dating is so hard and exhausting and feels like work because we're trying to r retry to be somebody else. We're always playing a role but why not play a role that we actually wanna play. Yeah i mean. I think the best dates are when it just feels like two friends that are hanging out and it's not like a formal goes have been by far the best i've ever had you know what's interesting though is i can hear people say like our audience. But don't we need to get like deep don't we need to like share our life's like goals emissions and all the stuff that isn't really considered play but more like the deep talk. We actually ran a super interesting david experiment. A while ago it was a love. Is blind experiment off the tv show in. You ate i along with all of our listeners. We were convinced. That one of the the guy ryan was going to pick this one woman taylor because they have the spiritual connection bonded. Yeah all this like. They kept talking about like in the check. Ins how deep they were bonding so we all thought like across the board he was gonna pick her and then he ended up picking another girl lisi because she was that was his words. But that being said it kinda petered out in. Maybe taylor actually would have been the better long term partner like how do you balance both in like. What is your thoughts about going deep and also being playful does it have to be one or the other no very play could be deemed to like. I do this on clubhouse all the time. I like introspective. Play where we ask like really hard questions like all right. This is the tombstone play game. Here lies jeff best remembered for embracing play being nerdy. Self and loving colmer kind. You know like that. That is like a sentence that everyone has to answer on clubhouse so like their ways in which you can ask really interesting questions. What about thirty six questions. That make you fall in love. You could ask one of those questions on one of your states again. It's about where do you wanna go. You wanna get deep right now told brandon. Let's let's pick one question out of the thirty six questions or my friend john. Who has these asti question cards. We pick one and we answer that like that can be that can all be it or you can just. You can just be like okay. Tell me your worst dating experience. And as y'all are sharing that together you know all of a sudden you start to peel the layers off and you're like. Oh wow that's that's real and then maybe you feel comfortable enough to ask you break up with your last first or what of those like really hard questions. That was in the dateable gauge the card. Everybody was so vulnerable right. This is just a side conversation but it's it seems like you have a lot of fun on dates. You're very playful. Why are you taking a dating sabbatical. I would assume that you just love dating you. Just be out there dating day now. Here comes the hard hitting questions day. Jeff does it work. He just goes on dates. Twenty four seven. That's just what i do know. Well the reason. I mean there's also another reason why i'm in chicago so i came to chicago originally partly because of covid but also because my nephew is trying to help him graduate from high school So he moved in with me. And i helped him get into college so i moved back in october. Twenty nineteen thousand nine while also a person i was dating in chicago. I was living in oakland. So i was. I spent the last year and a half with her. And like i got really close to her and her kids and it was amazing and then it ended up not working out so like i'm still here in chicago and planning to head back but like i went all in to be like i got to see this through my heart and soul in it and i got like super hearn and i'm sure she did as well but you know i feel happy that i at least it into the full risk and i think that lesson can be learned in the dating world is. I can't believe him quoting lou. But it's just like the movie with matt damon by the way twenty seconds of insane courage like all you need is twenty seconds of insane courage. Twenty seconds of sheer bravery and like everything can change.

00:55:02 - 01:00:01

And i feel like at every moment you have that and one thing that my friend angie cole taught me that i thought was really powerful and help me in my relationship. Angie and her boyfriend have this rule about. It's called on hand not open marriage that open relationship but open hand. It goes off of the analogy. That like you have this open hand in a can land on it at anytime like a relationship can fly away at any time and that is what a relationship is every day. You have to decide like do. I want to stay here too. I wanna love this person again today. Almost like you're getting remarried each and every day and she found that's much more powerful than when we're like you can leave because then it seems like a trap for both people so like i just try to operate off that and like i go all in my heart broken but like at least i enjoyed the rotten right and i feel like that is the thing we're so scared about. We're so scared to get hurt. But also that's where all the joy in the fulfilment in the play is. It's in that same deep end of the pool where you also might get hurt. You don't inside so fascinating about you. Is that like you have. The now got scared. He's like where's this. Go both talked about those. I feel like you have this like her soda. That's like this find play guy right. Like that's like your whole ebb. Oh you have the lego bow. Tie it all that but you also have this deep side like i remember with you. Share the story about going back. Actually help your nephew get through high school. Like that's like a very serious side and my question for you is like how can people kind of like balance the two and like can people ever come off as just being like to playful and get like dot taken seriously and kinda miss categorize. Has that ever happened to you. I mean yes. I mean i mean i run. I run stuff for like fortune. Five hundred companies and all the time they like. Who in the world is this ridiculous dude. But as soon as i helped create like a psychological safe like workplace for their staff and they're like taking risks and all of a sudden they're like. Oh this super weird dude actually is helpful. You know so. I think a lot of times again. We're trying to be like what is the right way. Can i be more normal. You know and and viola davis says this all the time like you either claim who you are or you end up chasing your worth from the rest of your life. And how many people do you know chasing. They're worth like constantly looking for validation being like. Is this the right way to date. Should i be on hinge on tinder. Should i be uncommon tomato. Should i be. It's just like it really doesn't like what i mean by. That is just like the look. When someone's like i lost all my weight on the master. It wasn't tai-bo or your paleo diet. You just decided. Now i'm gonna lose weight and you're attributing it to this. It's the same thing with like. Dating apps is dating apps the right way or not the right way. Who knows it's up to you. There's no right way Right like you could go to camps and meet someone you can be on a hinged. Meet someone you could go. Bard need someone. You could just hang out a whole foods every day. The same meets. I'm looking for that. It right so so play within right and stop looking for the right answer as there is none. The right answer is the the one where it's like. You know as my friend ardo always says you do you like you know like own own you own you because the more the more you are yourself right and hateful authenticity. Eight hundred people use the word authentic all the time. Just be yourself. What does that even mean right. But it's just like just be what you are scared to be. Which is you put it out in the world you might get rejected but also you might be like putting out to the world so someone else that season resonates with your nerdiness is like yo i need to hang out with that person so for someone who is putting themselves out there in a authentic non influence her away and They're getting a hang of this whole play full dating bringing it to their relationships etc. I think another question people would have though is coming out of date where we played. Maybe we play for eight hours. How can i tell that was a good date versus. I just created a really fun. Playful environment i can see myself going on a date with you. Jeff and we we hang out for eight to ten hours where playful. We're doing all this. And all that. And i come out and i'm like i think that was a bomb as day. I think we're like we're falling in love and you could just be like that's tuesday. You people be more in touch with their feelings after the fact and and really like get to the core of like a without a good date that we make a connection. Well did you. Did you enjoy the experience. Enjoy the mersin. Did you connect with a person or you. just remember. like what are you. Remember afterwards as you're describing. It deals friends. What is actually coming out and you talking about more about what you did or are you talking about more about.

01:00:01 - 01:05:05

Who the person is you know my my best friend data. She still gets like warm and fuzzy whenever she brings up her boyfriend they'd been dating for like five seven years. Now get all like that that feeling right there like you know it. It's that same when you finish the date. You're like i wanna you. Don't wait wait two days. Like i wanna talk to that person right now like as i am missing you as we're leaving right that is that's when yes and if you're like i don't know it was kind of good. You're you're persuading your so no move. You can move on dead on. Because i've heard people describe their dates and they lead with the activity. Totally like oh. I went to mini golf. It was so fun. And it's like you've got to golf with anyone. Thank you. And i think that it's a telltale sign of is at the person or is it the actual date because i think the best dates you could literally doing nothing like it almost doesn't matter where you go because it's just the personality that you're jiving with. Yeah and also like if you're like okay. I don't know what playful activities i can do right. Let's say you're just like i don't i don't play. There's a lot of people that i work with like. I had a lawyer client wants. That was like sounds like what you do and she goes. Well i take people that hate each other. And i get them to agree on one thing and i was like tell me more. And she was telling me she was like ooh. That's that's your that's how you play so again. it's very broad. So here's a flay experiment you can do with your friends so like actually identify ways in which could play more and may add more dates so you reach out to three to five of your closest friends. You can also do this on social media but it's better to reach out and like talk to your friends. I don't over the scary you so you ask them. These two questions in the first one is like what value do i bring your life. Like what do i do for you like. Why are we friends. Because i think a lot of times. We forget what impact we have on people's lives right so that's the first one and then the second one is whenever you see me come most alive. And this based off the howard thurman quote of like. Don't ask what the world needs ask. What makes you come alive because what the world needs is for more people to come alive right and another way of asking win of you. See me come. Most live is when you see me most playful most creative most myself. So what what value do i bring to your life. And when have you seen me come most alive when you get the answers back from three to five different people drastically different answers and you write them all down. You start to see all these patterns and your lack away. Those are the ways. I play all those ways. I actually get really excited about life. Those are the ways actually impact peoples lives. I didn't remember that or thank you for reminding me right and then when you write it all down then go back out to your same friends. You get a little tipsy ever. A little tips. I like to call it the storm right. You could even do over zoom and you you show them all the things that you've wrote in data and all the patterns and you brainstorm a bunch of other adventures adventures that you could do as friends or adventures. You can do with potential dates but again it's up. It's a playful activity to rediscover can we. Can we do it on each other. Julie shar let's do it jeb. You're gonna monterey miss. Everyone's going to witness. I love it. I love it. You want me to do the asking. Do you do that you i you could do the first question. What was the question again. What what do i. Why are we friends. What do i. What do you live your life julie. Oh you've fringe so much value. I don't even know where to start. Just a couple of things come to bide. I think. I always have fun when i'm with you. I always feel like you're a delight to be around. You care about the people in your life. You are funny like you'll always add some sort of wit to the co i know you as just like basking glory right now. I think you're also a really great listener. I think there's a lot of value that you bring. So there is the value of when you engage talk but also how they're there your friends you're listening again really taking pigs in a so. That was all recorded right. This was the shrek i see. Now play that at night. Every morning. As i brush my own affirmations i just listened to julie. Talk about me okay. Great so next question is at. When do you see me. Come to life is at right. What did you see me most alive. Yeah come the way five far when you're performing when you did like you know when we've done live shows we did the most dateable show that was like your baby and i feel like you came to life with that so i think when you can like show everyone those you know like the witty comments the funny piece and even when we do this podcast. I definitely think you come to life. Love ed's oh okay. I'm going to write this down julie. You're going to write it down. It's recorded for everyone. That's very okay like we probably don't need to go to all for type sake but like how does you event doubt.

01:05:05 - 01:10:01

Take what i just said. Apply that to dating and relationships. Like i love to make that transition like with what info i yeah. What's that next step. Well so i mean so. I we you know. We identified what value she brought to your life right. The fact that she's a listen the fact that she's like really like fully present also that she when she comes most lives when she's performing when she's doing this bigger. Think what are ways in which you can actually do that on a day or we talking carry-on talking like something that's like what are we. What are ways in which we were you get to me. I'm going to do an open mic. Stand up comedy thing something. I've never done before. And you're gonna come and watch me and that's this is going to be one of our first date. So we're going to go like an improv show and an attempt to do something that i've never done before or go trampoline not training but you know when you swing on those those What is it. i forgot what things are trampolines. Trapeze as you say. Trampoline dodgeball has always been my date that no. It's really okay. We have that on record for anybody listening angle. But i would ask you you way like what are some ways that you love to show up. Will you love to perform you love. And then from there we would diamonds more and especially when you're asking multiple friends. They're going to give you a lot of different answers. Yeah i love this idea of activities you could do. But i also see people being like dodger if i'm ready to take the plunge and do it open mic night but i mean but again remember. It's it's so someone else might say something. That's much more subdued and be like you know you love like read poetry one on one with someone. Okay sweet then. That's what we're gonna do. It doesn't have to be substantial overt. I think a lot of times we think like you said earlier. You way like play has to be entertaining for everyone does it play doesn't after entertain anyone. I make ridiculous tiktok videos and people are like. Oh i love them and then my great. But they're not for you. I'm just making me like this is my play. This is how i'm playing and if you want to join the party. As elizabeth gilbert says like a bunch of people join the party for eat pray love but my next book. No one cared. So whatever like. I'm still doing this for me julie. Do you remember when we set up shelby on those two dates and she and matt was his name they get. They crashed a party in hayes valley and i still remember that was a that was a memorable date for her because they didn't plan it but he kind of like he's like i think there's a party going on up there. We go check it out. And they went and they pretend they knew people there. And that was a really great bonding moment. That's like small and gesture but it's spontaneous. But i think the problem for them was that that overshadow their connection totally at the end of the day. That's like what they kept referring back to. Is this moments. I think it can't overshadow your connection so much or the you've just done a fun activity or but if it's okay even if it is overshadow it because then again you know that this is not the right. The play helps either way because it provides clarity an end at the end of the day like at the end of the year. I always ask people like remember your most productive moments of the year or your most play moment. And if that's the case why would we be focused on trading more playful joyful moments especially when we're dating if we can't do that while we're working at least do that. Yeah i mean. I think at the end of the day like using the shelby example. She definitely remembered that in probably would try that with other people or knew that that was something that excited her. And then to your point jeff. It's like if that overshadows the person so much then you're like okay. Maybe you didn't have the bond that we thought we did. And it's really. It's still learning experience so it's a win win situation because you still have fun and this is gonna sound a little nerdy. But i'd like to go. I had a colleague who used to work on the mars rover and she was like they were all about always making. It seem like a their job was to constantly break it on the ground on earth so that when it finally went out into mars one point five million miles away they would have known all the ways in which was gonna fail and i think a lot of times when a date fails or relationship doesn't work out that we feel like we've lost and it's like no it's just more information it's just more information that's getting closer to what you really want and i say this a lot that like i told me this someone said you're either in a relationship and you're in the relationship until you learn the lesson that you need to learn and then when you finish learning that lesson you either decide all right now this relationships over because it's done right and we celebrate that or i continue the relationship because i wanna learn more lessons with this person but either way you're constantly growing. I think we don't give ourselves ready tally. I think each time. Like i was just with someone for a year and a half. I could see it as like a waste of time.

01:10:01 - 01:15:06

And just be like oh. I'm starting back at square one. When i believe that. I don't. i want to believe that. Because i met this amazing person that had me grow in certain ways. Now i'm a better better person. Because i think we need to celebrate that more. It's not like beating yourself up and listening to her inner critic that like you're always going be percents a time out. They should not be playing right. I mean i think it's just like thinking back to like that. I've had to like one of the ones that stands out with like one of my exes that we took the cable car like three times like back and forth like all day for no reason. Shit nobody those things are cheap but it was like just like a. Was it like out of the box. Like crazy thing but it was super fun playful and i'm curious jeff because like i've not the type of person that has like all these unique copies and like does all this interesting stuff and like actually. I've had great dates. I've just gone to a bar and like talk to someone in. It's still felt playful to be and i think i do have a playful side. That comes out with certain people especially like what else can be like that people can like show their playful side. That's not necessarily activity. Well let me let me approach this way. So so my friend desharnais desert some travels all over. The world is who lives in a van and just drive trials everywhere. She learned that she could change her entire day by simply asking the question. How can it get any. And she asked that with curiosity like ooh. How could it get any better than this right. And i'll tell you by day today right like i woke up this morning that i made a tiktok. Who how can you get any better than this than i hopped on a podcast with this guy from london and we talked about play all day. We're gonna get any better than this. And then i got this really lovely greek salad. How can you get them here. Then this now. We're having this conversation. I'm going to get better than at the end of the day of my life is right here but i think that like doing that. Type of like momentous curious way of showing up on the date and being open to what might happen and being open to sing yes and to stuff like. Let's do this adventure. Let this adventure like think about when you've been in flow when you travel and you just you're open to everything. Yes i will yes. We'll have another ba most. Yes i will hop on this moped of this stranger. Yes i will go to this deserted island of this party under the moonlight. And maybe you meet the love of your life because you were willing to say yes to all this so we have to like we have to be willing to embrace our curiosity and experimentation of it and also just be open the open to being vulnerable. I actually think that is one of the best ways to approach. Playfulness on a date is pretending. You're a tourist in your own city. I think that's the best mindset the shit i've bought on trips and pay for like segway rides. I would never fucking do that in san francisco. I'm an who take those segue trip like two tours around the city and like by news super fun. I've i've actually done that and we. I went on a date in one of those yellow moped things and we drove up to the and we got some big day. Even though we couldn't. But i also had something called the row war that i san francisco audio. Want to know the ratchet tours of the ranch doors fascinating we we start off at sweet maple of where they have the million dollars bacon anyone nodded. Sf that is just like one of those like brunch spots that like the lines around the block. I've actually never been. Yeah yes oh but has bacon. But if you can't go there then go to the sycamore down in the mission where they just have bottomless moses. Right so we have bottomless most. Hang out and then we go to dolores park. We get some ice free when we go into the park. And we look for the coconut man. And the truffle ma'am and if y'all domino in san francisco there's a guy named the truffle man beautiful black man just this amazing man and he carries around these. We'd truffles in a golden urn in lebron's and golden urn which he gives out to people and then behind as usually the coconut man which is a guy. That shops coconuts. Has you drink half of it and then you the other half and you just walk around feeling the high and having your coconut rome and you just walk through the mission trying out all the restaurants and i call that just gets shipped via schiff said right and shame. Those have been great dates. I've had some not not knock you on that one. I i also like the acid trip where take some acid and of story best state of her back to pg world for anyone. That doesn't want to read. I like this point about curiosity.

01:15:06 - 01:20:03

'cause i don't think it needs to be this like extravagant adventure i think that's great like go forward if you want to by means but if you if you don't just be curious even in the conversation with someone like you can literally be sitting at the same place and have a playful conversation and not playful conversation. It doesn't need to be like some major adventure either and you can even have a conversation that changes your life even if you were never with person again like. That's the possibility with each and every conversation that we have. That's exciting like i love people. I love hanging out with people. Because there's there's always this moment where they might say something that sparks an idea that creates like. I dunno some video that makes makes me love life more like. I don't know where this shift is going to happen. And i think when we show up with that level of also gratitude that we have the opportunity to be on these dates. I mean by the way i mean. Have you talked to some people that have been together for a long time. They are not a lot of them are having that much me honest. Everyone thinks the grass is greener on each side. But i think you know for a lot of people that are single. Were like i just need to be with somebody but maybe you don't. Let's not force it just for the sake of forcing it like you have the freedom right now to connect with anybody in the wise and go anywhere that you want known is holding you back. That is a luxury so explore that. Because you don't know how long you're gonna show. I mean also. I think the side on the long-term relationship because i did actually wanna touch on that that i think you could definitely bring play to that too right. I think i read somewhere that one of the top reasons that people got divorce as they stopped eating each other and stop be curious about each other's lives so i guess like from your perspective. What are some ways that people could bring play even if they've been with their partner for ten plus years or whatever that might be my recommendation is go have more adventures go head more ventures separately as well as together because when you have adventures separately then you can actually come back and tell each other about that because a lot of times. We're like well. Let me tell you about. You've already told me that story. I've heard that story like a million times. I do something new but when when you're willing to like and this is part of also allowing each other in a relationship to do you do and you're like doing these adventures and coming back. You're growing from each in every one of those risks so go have adventures together create new experiences together but also give each other the freedom to do that. Someone else watched the kids go. Do your adventure. You know or go on like a trip in your town and pretend like you're a tourist like just r- a lotta times. It's just reframing small things that you wanna do instead of just like mailing it in and being lazy about it being like well. Let's just watch netflix. Watch netflix speaking of netflix's. There's a really bad movie out there. But i actually liked the premise. Call yesterday with jennifer garner. Have you seen off. It's a really bad movie. The premise is she and her husband had been married for so long. They have a bunch of kids and things are getting noth- fun and there's a trend going on going around at school that there's a yesterday where one day you say yes to everything. The parents of the kids the kids say yes to the parents and they have this fantastic really memorable day where nobody gets in trouble but you just start expanding outside of your creative comfort zones and get something that couples can do to what if you give each other yesterday once a month and say yes and you just keep building upon the yes. Yes yes. I love that or or why. Don't you as a couple cogan like go get lost in the city. you know. hide your phone. You can't pull out your phones. You gotta get back somewhere like there. Some adversity in each and every one of the adventures when you go travel and you have those horrible experience my gosh. you know. We're going to get on that plane and couldn't get on that plane later on you talk about that with a certain level of like gravitas and like excitement. So i think that's the part is is simply asking yourself and your partner each and every day you know. Hey when was the last adventure one. On what type of venture would you want to go and do you go on this adventure with me that well. This has so many insights this whole thing. We're going to kick off some takeaways. But i think the biggest one for me is that you know like we always say that. Just treat each state as getting to do person i love. This like expectations is the joy of or the thief of joy is the quote. I get that right okay. I think that is something to live by it. I love this idea of to being grateful. That i am going to spend an hour. Plus with this person like let's make fun like yeltsin joy this time and it really is a shift in mindset and how you approach things and i think it's not like you know you can't be deep because you're playful. It's not an either or it's how can our play mesh together.

01:20:03 - 01:25:01

And i think at the end of the day really. What we're trying to do here is for memories together. Whatever that might be that could be adventure could be an activity could be an inside joke. It could be whatever it is. But that's how you bond to people is when you have a shared experience and when you just go on these dates and there is no shared experience. That's when it's mac. Right jackson to add something inspired this other thing. I you have something you said was so just resonated with me so thank you so much no reminds me of there. Was this talk from sheila booth and you know. He was at oxford union and he was talking about when people oneself selvi and he. He knows when people want to take win. They're like just asking questions to build them for the selfie so they can ask the selfie question and he knows when they are giving where where there's an exchange and it's just like. Hey we're hanging out or connecting and then all of a sudden we decide. Hey you know. Let's take a selfie. Maybe we'll maybe won't right. And i think we have to be aware even with ourselves when we're in dates. What are we are we are. We just thinking about one thing or rethinking about what we can give you know. And how even if this day doesn't end up to be the love of your life how you could also impact that person right now in that conversation. There's something that you might spark with them so that they actually realized that thing that makes them come mostly live like again. That's part of the adventure. That's art of of being in the moment instead of being like when we're in the take mode we're like okay. How much giving. What is your four one k. Sound like we can. We can sell it. We can feel when the person is taking. Neil it and that is what it like like. What do you want some in having or shared humanity. Which really hoping we have in the post pandemic worlds we see more people as like human beings and not as just something that is filling a role from you just triggered my last takeaway is lake not just looking at dates as an adventure but your whole dating journey as an adventure i think if you can reframe it and think about like i think that's like sochi like instead of like date not working out it's like okay who's next. What's right around the corner like that curiosity of not just the dates of the people but your own dating life and look at it as like a play experience in itself what better mindset than being like. Oh person ghosted me like how is that going to really help you right and simply asking the question when someone does go through something like that asking. How can it get any this. You're about it and see what happens because yours exactly. They can't odd. It'll be really. He goes through twice. How i only had one. Okay let's s. Let's it's a game you gave i. I love it where riffing we get it now. We're play experts now my biggest takeaway. Is you inspired me for this jeff and feel free to take this for yourself to play is bring a pebble to the river. You all you need to do is bring the pebble and you throw it in the river and you don't know where ripple effect is gonna cause you don't know which way the hubble will go the all you need to do is bring the pebble. We don't need to know the big picture of how it's going to affect the river. You just have to bring that one thing to the table. So i like this idea. Because it also goes into this analogy is really synonymous with. Were we've been talking about. Is this yes. And we keep building. And the times. I've had on dates and with my current partner when we keep saying should we try. Yes should we do that. We do this. We go here. Let's do it becomes so fun and you just keep adding and building on top of each other's requests and questions and that river just keeps it keeps flowing and the ripples keep getting bigger and bigger to bigger waves. And that's what. That's how. I see play but you just need to bring it that one little pebble question. Maybe it's an activity and just see where it goes. I love what you said that she said it was and then the energy feel the energy let you can feel it right. We know it. I think a lot of times we ignore it because we're like trying to be normal. It's like no all the possibilities are in the weird. Will smith what it says. This on the opposite side of fear is like everything you've always wanted and just like yo so then let's go there. Let's go to that even of the pool and just see what happens.

01:25:01 - 01:30:22

I think tone can be playful. That's like at the end of the dangers that need to be i love this takeaway of the pebble. Because it's like what we're saying. Is i think sometimes we get our heads that play these to be this like activity and it's like a lot of pressure but it just needs to be something small that we see the reaction and if we both jive from it and then it will just naturally happen. Doesn't need to be like you coming to a date with a deck of cards ready to go if it goes that way. Great you no. Because it's what you said. Also plays just you being you being you. You home wearing your lego Bowtie is a great example of a pebble. Because if you did that on a day it might have been. Inspired me to bring my own bow tie. Which sexually my dogs bowtie and then we'll have a conversation about that. Maybe we bring our bow ties and we wear it to whole foods and then we barter a bow ties for oranges. I don't know that there were some of that. Doesn't want to bring a bow tie. They could see the bowtie and they'd be like oh. I used to play with legos that it goes like to another club spiral in so many ripple effects debris affect. I love that ally at just loved this idea of keeping things. Playful that doesn't mean keeping things surface level or superficial. It just means infusing. The fun back into dating. I think it's about five dating. Should be fun right especially on the early stages like shit gets difficult like you know. It's not fun. It's gonna be fun and i love. I love this quote formulas gilbert coaches. You have in your repertoire. i'm just ahead. I've counted. They're not even reading that. That's the hard count is twelve already like what's crazy was i was on a podcast ones where i had to. I had to be elizabeth gilbert. You had only a character. That was the podcast and mine. I was supposed so had to memorize all of oliver work. So now just embedded in my head but the one that i love is like personal. Transformation doesn't happen until you get tired of your b s like your bullshit and it's just like what is the bullshit that you're telling yourself like what is the what is the limiting belief that is holding you back. What's the old story like. What am i old stories was. I was the guy that woman would date right before she got married. Here that fluffer relationship fluffer for right so there's even a term for it right. And why why do i tell the story because it actually benefits me. It gives me the benefit of not having to like continue to go out there and also makes me look good right. It makes me look like the hero in my own story instead of just confronting them be like like. Is that the thing like. Why am i telling the story to limit myself from what is possible. I think a lot of times. Say those limiting beliefs. Because we're just scared. We're just scared. We're going to get hurt. And guess what you are but also you also we're going to find such love and adventure and all of the joy in like that's living it's both. It's all the sadness. All the angry all the grief all the fulfilment and all the play. All wrapped together like a roller coaster. And that's so much more enjoyable than just binge watching netflix. Still you die. let's talk. I'm just saying i love netflix. I loved this roller coaster at allergy too. Because sometimes like when you're in the down piece it can only go up right. That's we've been saying so there's always something new around the corner. If you think about things in this like curiosity playful mindset so jeff harry if people want to find out more about you and your offerings and rediscover your blais. How can i play. Parties will take party. Hey limiting belief of yours. You can do that if you want to be. Open you're absolutely right back to passing francisco. Yes so you can find me making my ridiculous videos at the handle jeff. Harry plays j. e. f. f. h. a. r. y. p. l. a. y. s. That's tiktok instagram. All of them medium all on. And then you can go to my website rediscover your play dot com and when you go to it. There's a let's play button if you click the let's play. But and i have all these play experiments you and then you can hop on a phone call with me and we can figure out how you can rediscover how dope you are by playing. Feel like you might be getting a lot of calls calls coming up and then we're going to be like hey remember us revive its ago. Okay oh this is being on our show for playing with us letting us play with you. We're going to have you back in the. You can play with me anytime you ought. Sounds so dirty just putting that out and name just who if anyone's looking for an opening line to show their playful this there you go so poor we have to do a bonus episode business.

01:30:22 - 01:32:31

Figure it out too now. We go to upgrade people so anybody listening to this obviously will will link all of jeff stuff in our show notes but for us to get fabulous guests like jeff. Please give us a five star review in Apple podcasts really helps us get awesome. Guests get awesome content and crete even better episodes for you all just a simple click on five stars and like a quick line about how awesome we are and how playful we are how you wanna play with us will suffice and i guess we'll just wrap this up. I don't want this to end but play rinse so we'll continue those and be we play with jeff quite a bit Big g whole. I'm going in certain ways going back to the earlier part of our covers each an ankle circles back just circles back getting hot here before we get in trouble. Let's wrap this jay o. Dateable podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcasts. Tag us in any post with the hashtag. Stay dateable and trust. We look at all those posts then. Head over to our website. Dateable podcasts dot com. There you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium wiser series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums also downloadable for free. On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.

Dateable Podcast
Yue Xu & Julie Krafchick

Is monogamy dead? Are we expecting too much of Tinder? Do Millennials even want to find love? Get all the answers and more with Dateable, an insider’s look into modern dating that the HuffPost calls one of the ‘Top 10 podcasts about love and sex’. Listen in as Yue Xu and Julie Krafchick talk with real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes, and first moves to first loves. Whether you’re looking to DTR or DTF, you’ll have moments of “OMG-that-also-happened-to-me” to “I-never-thought-of-it-that-way-before.” Tune in every Wednesday to challenge the way you date in this crazy Dateable world.