S14E13: When You Know, You Know

00:00:01 - 00:05:01

The dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that The Huffington Post calls one of the top ten podcasts about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host UA Shu, former dating coach turned dating sociologist. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Kraft chick as we explore this crazy dateable world. Hi dateable is welcome to another episode of the day will podcast. We are UA and Julie, your dating shirt bus, your dating confidants, your dating BFFs, you can call us whatever you want, as long as it's a nice word, as long as it's nice, you know. You could call us whatever nickname in as long as it's a good one. Yeah, keep it positive. I feel like so excited. We got this email that we were number one. In all of social sciences category. On good pods. On good pods. Yeah, this new what is it like a curation site that you can discover podcasts, but we were number, so the first day we were at upper water, we got the sea mail that we checked in and we had dropped an upper two, which is still a good achievement. Yeah. We were behind hidden brain, which is like for like a PhD. It's huge. Super reputable podcasts. My boyfriend listens to it, and I just was like, look, look who is behind. And your favorite podcast. Your girlfriend is so damn smart. Don't ever forget it. That's huge for us. It's been a roller coaster of rankings. For anybody who's in podcasting, you get put on all these lists. And sometimes you're like, I don't know, 1 million and 5 or whatever. We get happy when we're in the top hundred 'cause that's huge. They're millions and millions of podcasts out there, but to be in the top three or top 5 for one deal. Yeah, I never really thought that would ever happen, but number one is huge 'cause it wasn't just number one in like the dateable category. It was like for one in a huge category of many other podcasts. There was one time that we got to the top 5 on Apple podcasts under relationships, which is huge. We were behind Michelle Obama and Esther perel, were like damn, this is good. Yes. But I feel like one of the existential struggles we've faced with this podcast is how we classify it. Because I feel like obviously it's a dating podcast. We're not going to say it's not. We talk about dating culture. That is the crux of it. But I feel like when you tell people you do a dating podcast, they don't think it covers nearly as much as we cover. It kind of minimizes what we call. Because we go beyond that. It's about human connection and patterns and behaviors. I do think there needs to be a different category. I don't know if life and science is that what it was. Social sciences. Social sciences. I can see it a little, but it's a broad, right? Yeah. There could be something. Some of ours hit that maybe like the sex party episode or diaper fetish didn't really fall into social science. You don't think. You know, maybe schema is some of those ones. I could see. But I don't think it accurately represents us either. It's a subset of what we do. Yeah, well, either one, we were number one, and then we dropped number two and we're still holding on to that spot and it's it feels like an honor to be on that. You know, UA, we're just at a category of our own. When someone asks me, like, there's no words to describe what we do. We just help people all the time. I do want to share some light on how a lot of podcasts get their listens. We are a homegrown organic individually privately owned podcast and there are so many other bigger podcasts who are backed by. I heart Spotify, all of the bigger companies. So the way they get their listens, even within the first season of their launch, they really advertise the shit out of the podcast. And so for us to even make these lists, I just feel like it must mean something because we don't spend money on ads, if any, really, right now. And this is all from word of mouth. So thank you all for listening and for spreading the word. Yes, I mean, we would not be here without our listener base. That is for damn sure. I mean, it's just been such a pleasure to say quote unquote meeting you. Although we have met some of you. But even virtually in the last year, plus the last two years, how long have we been doing the Facebook group two years to over two years? Over two years. But I feel like even, you know, being in the sounding board, UA and I still do a monthly office hours, we get to talk to people live and in some of our programs, finding your person, which may or may not be coming back soon. We'll leave it at that. Finding your person dot com. We get the opportunity to talk in very intimate settings with you all. And I think that means so much to us.

00:05:01 - 00:10:03

I mean, one, so we can see who the listeners are. I think putting a name to a number in our stats reports. It tells us so much more about who our listener base is. I remember we had a discussion when we were launching finding your person with the company that was helping us. They were like, you guys have a pretty good grasp of who's listening to this podcast. Any other people we've worked with and we're like, yep, because we have so much interaction and that makes us so happy that we're able to do that. We don't just talk into the ether. I think all of our topics, questions, they are inspired by you all, the Facebook group, the in person interactions, the DMs and emails we get. So keep them coming because without you, we wouldn't have our content and we really appreciate the diversity of topics that we've been getting here too. It's really phenomenal to see one you're all going through lots of different journeys, but two, you're not alone in what you're doing. There's so much similarity that comes through all of it. And I think the episode we have today is really interesting because it's such a hot topic of like, is there a spark? Is there instant connection or do you let it grow over time? And I personally don't think there's a right answer for that. So sorry, if we could not shed light that it has to be this way. If you're long listener of this podcast, you know, will never tell you. You need a follower rule. But I think one of the things that we've learned from different stories is a lot of it is just like the headspace that you're in at the time. More of like the factors of where someone is in their life. Yeah, so many pieces fall into place. And when all those pieces fall into place, you often hear people describe it as when you know you know, you just get this feeling and our guests for this episode trace had that feeling with someone where he jumped right into marriage with this person and just knew right away. Whether you believe that feeling exists or not, do you know that it does exist for people out there and it's very exciting to acknowledge that some people feel like when you know, you know, have you ever felt that way or did you feel that way with your car partner? No, I mean, I know I'm with the right person, but it's not like I know this is my person forever. I've never had that feeling. What about you, Julie? I mean, I think there's a side of me that when I met my current partner that I was like, oh, this is very different than anything. And this is real. Yes. And there was a side of me that was like, I definitely knew. But I think there's always in all relationships. If you're an over thinker, especially. The one you know you know, it sounds really scary, 'cause it's like, it's for the rest of my life. And I think because I'm an over thinker at an analyzer, there's nothing to do with my partner. I'm like, how do I know in ten years? And I think you're the same way. The person's just like, what if I'm totally different? What if they're totally different? And you won't know. You won't know. And I think when you know you know, doesn't need to be forever. It's current day. If you asked me today, do I feel like I know, I would say yes, because that's all you can control. You said the key word, though, different. You felt different with this person. I think different sometimes is a very good thing. Different means you're not doing the same things over and over again. And the overthinking piece is so huge because I think you'll hear in this story when trace stopped overthinking, that's when he opened his heart and was able to find the love of his life, who was right in front of him this whole time. And it's an incredible story, and I hear this all the time, too, is when you stop overthinking your heart is free to feel the things that it wants to feel versus us being so logical in thinking it has to be this checklist. It has to, I have to be at this point in my career. And I have to have this before I can get in a relationship. Love doesn't work like that and when you're closed off to it, it doesn't matter what kind of person you encounter. It could be the best person in the world, you won't be able to be open to this person. Yeah, I think that's really important. And it's a line because I think people can swing the opposite way too, right? Like I'm thinking of our dating scab episode from a few months back. You need to think something's through. It shouldn't just be like, just jump into everything, but there becomes a line. Like if you're being treated well, you feel secure in the relationship. Like, it's easy to find faults like I'm also thinking of like the episode we do with sir zod, right? About the saboteurs. There's ways that you can always find faults with someone. Sometimes you need to just let that part of your brain turn off and take the plunge when you have enough data to know that at least it's like a sound decision. And that's why this story is so great because I think it does inspire people to be maybe more a spontaneous and also just taking the lead sometimes. I often think about this if two people in a relationship or dating, if one person doesn't mention, hey, how about we take the next step? Nothing would happen. Imagine relationships would ever happen. It just takes one person to say, how about we do this? And change is scary.

00:10:03 - 00:15:02

I think it inevitably changes scary for a lot of people. But it can also be really beautiful. You can go to a next stage and have a totally different experience but different in an amazing way. Yeah, we're also scared. Everything's so good. I know that by fear associated. I think why I'm so scared of knowing when I know is that I don't want to be hurt. I don't want to get my heart broken. You almost don't want to admit it. Yeah. Because what if? What if it's not true? What if my feeling was wrong? Like, who the fuck cares? If you truly feel it, nobody can take that away from you. Yep. This is definitely an example of someone that new instantly. I mean, it kind of you'll hear it in the story. There is a little build up when they were in each other's lives and did not know, but then when that switch went off, they knew. So I think it's just an example that every story is different and there could be people that know each other for years before something becomes something. There could be people that go on one date and are like, this is gonna be it. There is so many extremes to this that it's just such an individual story perspective. And in a way, that's kind of nice. There doesn't have to be one script. We kind of see what works for us and we build that story with whoever we're with. I related so hard to this story, Julie, in a way that made sense for my past relationships. Is that most of my relationships have been because I saw someone in a different way. And it wasn't about meeting new people. I think so many people were like, oh, I need to meet new people, and there's not enough people in my town. For me, most of my relationships were because I saw someone in a different way, like my current partner. For over ten years. In that way, till recently, same with my long-term relationship in Beijing, the sky was friends with and all of a sudden I had a thing for him. Same with New York relationship two was something just turned on in my head and I saw this person as a potential romantic interest. And I think that's lovely to know that maybe you don't need to meet new people to get into a relationship. Maybe it's just about reframing and just relooking at the people in your lives already. I love that. I think that's so dead on. I know I have a friend that is now with her now partner. For years did not see him as that. And she was going after that typical hipster cool guy that's in a band. I don't know. First priority, is it you? Basically, like their priority is like becoming famous, even though they're like playing at some Berkeley getting basically painted drinks or something. Yes. And she was into that type that, you know, it was a little more like itchy and cool, right? And then her current partner wasn't that. And it took her shifting what she was actually looking for to realize this great person was sitting here. So I think sometimes it's, again, where are you and when does that click happen? A lot of it has to be that you're in the right place. So funny you say that because think about this, it's like some people, once they start dating a certain type, maybe they dated two people, that type. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where they feel like they need to keep dating people of that type because that's who I am. I date people like this. I resonate with that because I was like, I used to date guys who were the ex football guys, and that's my thing, and I'm gonna keep searching for that. That's what happens when you get stuck on a type, you don't open your eyes up to the people who are actually better suited for you. Yes. Okay, well, so much food for thought. We'll leave it at that so we can dive into the episode, but before we do that, couple of announcements. One, you know, give us a reading on Apple podcast. Let's get to number one on Apple podcasts. With all of your support, so drop us 5 stars. Hopefully a nice little love note too. We'd love to see the feedback coming, especially when it's positive. But this really does help our livelihood, so if you've seen negative to say maybe just don't say it. Just saying. Just be nice. Move on. This is a free podcast. Let's be honest. Is that the other adults spent? We are going to be opening up registration again for finding your person, our flagship program. We've heard such great feedback from folks in UA and I have some bandwidth that we feel like we could take on another cohort. So we will be announcing the exact day that the cart will be open essentially to get your spot, but you can go to the wait list now and go to finding your person dot com, join that and you'll get everything you need to know about when the wait list will open. If you're on the wait list, you'll get an email the day before it goes out to the public.

00:15:03 - 00:20:02

So get on there and see what it's all about. So finding your person dot com. This program has been life-changing for some people and it's all about re shifting and reshuffling some of the things that you may have experience or believe in dating career. So it's such an eye opening course, I guess you could call it with different ideas and questions that you may have never thought of before. Okay, so yes, definitely check out 5 of your person and before we get into it, let's hear from one of our sponsors. Okay, let's hear it from trace. Marriage, that whole thing. Remember that whole thing? I feel like for so long that you and I have been doing this podcast, Julie, and I feel like people are giving up on the idea of marriage, or at least they're delaying it. And there's actually numbers to prove that people are delaying when they get married. It's sort of a fascinating time that we're in right now coming out of COVID, where people had concentrated time to think about what they want. Do they want a relationship? Do they want marriage? Do they want monogamy? Our guest today was very clear about all of these things. His name is trace. And he recently got married, and we're going to get into that story because that story is so incredible. He currently lives in LA in originally from St. Louis. He's 31 years old and yes, he is married. Welcome to dateable trace. Thank you so much for having me. This is so exciting. I love to share this story as much as possible. So I am honored to be here. I love that our rear guest is a guy that can't wait to get buried. That's just telling of the times. Yeah. Where have you been? Where have you been? Let's get right into it. You recently got married after dating someone for three weeks? Is that right? How did this whole thing? Three weeks time. It's really, it's actually a crazy story. And every time I tell somebody or think about it, it just like, I don't know. I love it. It's like one of my favorite love stories. So I went through a big breakup about a year ago now. And I was with that person for 12 years. Wow. So obviously commitment hasn't always been an easy thing for me. So after that breakup, I had a lot of self reflection, a lot of time to kind of spark new relationships and new Friends, not just a partner, but just Friends in general. And I had a really close group. I made a really close group of three friends. We were best friends, we were inseparable for like 7 months. Did every single thing together. And at the beginning of this year, we had a trip planned to go to big bear and my now wife had COVID. She got COVID, the Wednesday before about to leave on a Friday. So we had a set group of people, yeah. I mean, it's very fitting for the times, but we had a set group of people going. And two of our best friends were going to be there as well. And so everybody canceled. Everybody kind of freaked out, jump ship. So then we wanted to reschedule it for a month later. And we did totally different group of people. Our best Friends weren't there. We kind of had like a hodgepodge of random friends or friends go. It was actually me and 5 other girls. So we had a great weekend, one of them, which was my best friend, too. Kelsey, my wife, and we, one of the nights, you know, we had a little drunken talk. Long talk. And Duncan talk? You know, it was a drunken talk. It was a lot of, you know, we've always had so many vulnerable conversations. We've been so, so close in the connection that we've had has been so deep for the past year. She went through a big breakup too, which brought her out to LA from New York. We've just been through so much and we had the best conversations, and it's funny because we were kind of like helping each other navigate different relationships, trying to help the other person find their partner and all the while we were kind of chewing off people and not really knowing that it was to make room for each other, but I need some clarity on this. Step back for one second. Yeah. So how did you guys meet in the first place? And when this trip is coming along, how long had you known her at this point? Okay, so we met about a year ago. I hired her at the group fitness studio I was working at. As front desk staff. And then that was right before the breakup happened. So then a couple of months fast forward. And we were just hanging out all the time with our two other best Friends. So we knew each other for about really well for about ten months. And so Friends first. Friends first, best Friends. Best friend. What does that look like? What is the best friendship look like between? Did you have an attraction towards her during the ten months that you were friends? You know, we'd look back at it now and we say, yeah, there was something there. We both had so much love for each other, but we also cherish the friendship. So that was something that we didn't want to risk subconsciously.

00:20:02 - 00:25:01

And there really wasn't like an opening for that to happen, which is funny because we look back and there were many nights where I had to sleep in her guest room from we were being out. Are we out drinking and having fun? And I would end up sleeping at her in her guest room. So those nights were like both of us were kind of wishing something maybe happened now that we look back on it. But yeah, so I mean, I think the best friendship looks like seeing each other in such a vulnerable state and seeing every single part of you, right? Like the parts that are tragic and you need somebody to lean on and you need somebody that you can literally vocalize everything with and have those deep connections. She loves she loves being vocal about this and kind of normalizing this, but she froze her eggs in January. So I gave her some of the injections along the way. I did so for January with her just because she wanted to have as least as less stress on the body as she could during this process and I picked her up from the egg retrieval. So it's just like it was literally doing anything for that person and it was just it was one of the best friendships I have I've ever had. I have a group of best friends from back home, but nothing was like this. Interesting. So you're both kind of healing from past relationships too. And you first meet, it starting under a best friend vibe. Now, let's get to do the story because I think I knew that the context that was. I get excited telling the story. Let's get back to it. Kind of just a funny situation. So one of the nights, a couple of us that has been laying in bed and it just had a great conversation just being vulnerable again. We love having just these deep connections with people. I feel like just makes life so much more enjoyable, knowing that the people you're hanging out with, you know, a lot about them, you know, everything about them, especially the people like close to you. So we had that chat Friday night and then Saturday night, everybody kind of split one their own ways and we were we kind of just went back to the same, you know, laying in bed, having the conversation. And it's so funny when she was having this internal dialog that she was vocalizing. She's like, should we hook up? Should we not hook up? I don't know if we should. That's a good idea. Yeah. And so, you know, it happened. And there was little anxiety the next morning, wondering if it was just going to be that if it was going to do anything, a to the friendship. It was just a drunken one night thing. And that entire ride home from big bear holding hands. It just made so much sense. It's like we've been dating for a year, right? We went through the get to know each other phase on a level that you would never really you wouldn't really be comfortable doing right away. And as deep. It was just funny. It was kind of like the stars aligned. Had these best Friends been on this trip with us, the second weekend, like even if the first week of what had happened, this probably would have never happened. We all would have been together all the time. But here's the thing, right? You can go on trips with your best friends and then hook up with them and then decide that maybe you want to start dating. You guys got married. So okay, help us. Bridge that gap a little bit. You have that nice hook up and then you wake up the next morning. You're holding hands. How did that leap into marriage for you? So we had Vegas was a trip that was planned for us a few weeks later. So the next weekend after big bear, we had just spent with the laying in bed talking and we were both like, you know, we've been through all this stuff. We almost settled in relationships and we've never been so happy in the past week and just knowing that like we've spent so much time together in the year prior leading up to this, that I don't know, everything just seemed like so certain. And I've never had that level of like, wow, this is it. This is all I could ask for in a partner. This isn't what I knew our partnership would be like even. You know, I went through a relationship for 12 years that and almost ended up in marriage because I felt like that was the next step that needed to happen. That was long overdue, but there was obviously a reason why I haven't committed to that. So we were laying in bed a week after big bear and we were like, this is it. I love you so much. I know everything about you. Everything that I possibly could. I know what kind of person you are. And so she actually has this she wears her grandmother's wedding ring, her grandmother just passed away a few years ago. She was a 101 years old from Germany, Nazi Germany, so she wore this wedding ring on her on her right hand and so I was just having that conversation. I'm all in. She's like, I am all in, so I just pulled the ring off that finger and put it on her ring finger, just has like a cute little engagement, just a very special moment. And so that was the engagement. That was what we did it. How soon after the big bear trip did you say the L word to each other? In a way that was more that wasn't platonic, like before. It's funny, 'cause I'm pretty sure the same night we were talking about that. We were like, I mean, I say, I love you all the time. Yeah. As a best friend. And that love was still like it was still such an unconditional love that this, you know, it's just flipping the narrative on it a little bit. It's just turning it from a friendship, but still having that best friendship. We've always wanted best Friends as a partner. That's what we told each other as we were helping each other find a partner, which is so funny that it ended up that way. But you're like, oh, she's here. She's been right here, right in front of her. Exactly. So yeah, I mean, it was just like a funny like, I don't know if this is the same, how should we approach the love you situation? And I don't know. Everything just felt so right.

00:25:01 - 00:30:06

It didn't really, we didn't have to debate it or think about it too hard. Wait, I want to go back to the big beer. You want all the details? Yeah. She wants all the time. I want all the details. How did the tree transition happen? I know you said that you looked at each other that she kind of started to talk out loud. Like, how did you even get to that point? 'cause I feel like sometimes bridging the gap from friends can be hard. You don't know what the other person's thinking, right? A 100%. And I think that's kind of like why she had that internal dialog that she was just like, should we do this? Should we not? But we just had one of our deep conversations. And honestly, that's a great question to ask her what the conversation actually was because I'm not sure I remember at this point. But it was just one of those conversations where just like open it up and you could just see that this person was being so vulnerable and the alcohol might have had a little to do with it. Just a little bit. Yeah, so I don't actually know what the conversation was that transitioned to it, but it was just so much love and us being alone in that position. Like I said, I'd slept over at her apartment in the guest bed all the time and never in bed with her. So that was obviously a change up of environment. But yeah, it was just, it's just how we've always kept stuff, just super vulnerable, super open, very communicative and very real. And we're the two of you doing a lot of one on one stuff. I know you obviously said you brought her to the egg freezing. All the stuff that is very boyfriend like where you go and got one on one dinner dates or like dinners. I don't want to call them dinner dates back then. Yeah, and that's another funny thing to say that because somebody said to her, she's like, all right, one of her friends or acquaintances was best guy friends don't take best friends to their egg retrieval. That was funny when we heard that. But yeah, we spent a ton of one on one time together. I actually helped her find the apartment that I moved into. We did everything together. You knew, you had a premonition of your could I see myself in this apartment. I could see myself laying in this bed right here, yeah. Wait, trace, so you go, okay, this is a very playful moment you take her grandma's mother's ring and you do this proposal or seemingly like some sort of proposal. And then what happens? Because now it's like, is this for fun? Are we joking around here, where it's a serious? It was, you know, it was a cute playful moment, but it was dead serious. I mean, again, we just knew everything we possibly could about each other. And we knew what we wanted in a partner and just from helping each other out. So it just made everything made so much sense. It was like one of those aha epiphany moments. When all of this happened and when we first had the discussion after big bear. So we had that Vegas trip planned out and it was kind of like a joke. So she has a family text, a group text with their family, and she threw it out there. And I've met her, I've met her brother. We got along so, so well, when he came to visit, I met her brother in law, who came into town as on his way through to another trip. And I don't know, I think hearing her telling her parents that we were dating and hearing it from those two important people in their lives. It made sense to them as well. They're like, we couldn't be more happy for you. We obviously know what she went through it. And in the previous, it wasn't engagement. Her last relationship. So she knew everything that she suffered through that. And they could tell how happy she was and hearing it from those two significant people really told them a lot too. So when the Vegas trip came around, we were telling the Friends on the trip that we were there with that we were going to do it. They're like, you guys aren't going to do it. I wouldn't believe you. Yeah, so we had it planned out. All right, we didn't have a plan, really, but we were telling our friends and then Sunday came around, friends shipped off, and we were sitting at brunch, and we're like, let's just see what it would take to do this. So we looked up that you had to get the marriage license, and if everything worked out, we had a little gap in between the marriage license and the actual ceremony, but if everything worked out, it would have taken 30 minutes to do the whole thing. That's it. That's it. It's honestly, it took us 15 minutes to get the license and the ceremony was 15 minutes. So wait. To just the two of you go and do it, or do you bring your Friends that you were with? What was the whole celebration? They left, and it was just as an Elvis. Okay. I mean, nobody believed this, by the way. Because you posted something on your Instagram and I remember so many of us were like, was this a joke? It's like paparazzi releases a photo and everyone's like, do you think this is real? And it was fucking real. He confirmed it. So who is the first person you told after this happened? I think it was her family were the first people. She has that family group text. I think we FaceTime with them right after actually, and then we told just our best friends after that. So it's funny. So she had a her parents, she kind of prepped them for a little bit, like throwing the little jokes out there that it would happen. So they had some sort of expectation that it could possibly happen. And I didn't tell my parents at all. In fact, my sister, I was terrible about this this episode is made possible by almond cow. Are you like me and can't really drink animal milk, or maybe you prefer the taste of plant based milk? Well, almond Cal makes it possible to make plant based milk at home with a comprehensive milk maker kit.

00:30:06 - 00:35:05

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So then finding out from social media was really funny, but my sister found out that way. We faced on my parents and they were like, blown away with complete happiness, but they were not expecting it at all. So the reactions were good. Oh, they were incredible. So my parents came in town for my birthday earlier this year. They met Kelsey for the first time. They had obviously heard so much about her. They met her for the first time. We went to go watch postseason football and my parents and I read dinner, we met them up after a bunch of friends. My mom and dad could not stop talking to Kelsey the entire night. So after we left and split up, my mom looks at me, both of them actually look at me. They're like, why are you in Kelsey now together? She's gorgeous. You guys are perfect together. Like, why is this not a thing? So they were psyched that this happened. They played with the seed. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So before Kelsey, I want to dig into your past a little more. This is really good stuff happens. You said, okay, 12 year relationship. You say looking back now, it makes sense why you were hesitant because you weren't ready to commit. Do you think it was like the time that you met her that you became more commitment oriented or was marriage something you always wanted, but you somehow knew it wasn't right with the other person. Great. Great question. Yeah, I mean, reflecting back now, it wasn't the right person. You know, 12 years is a long time. And that's a that becomes a very regular part of your life, especially during the transformative years. We started dating. We were 18 years old. So let's see to your high school until 30. So we had been through a lot together, a lot of transitions. And yeah, looking back, it just it never felt right. Like I never had that urge to marry this person and seeing this now and what it actually feels like. I completely realized that it was just she was just not the right person. And I think I hung onto it because all my Friends were, it was like all my Friends were getting married after college. And I thought that maybe something would click and I also thought that maybe I liked the untraditional way of doing things. And maybe I didn't want it to get married. Maybe it'd be fun to just have like a partnership. I don't really know what the reason was, but I think at the heart of it all just wasn't the right person. But I think this is why it's so important that we can't measure the success of a relationship based on its longevity, because you could totally be in a relationship with someone for 12 years and not really have a future with them. So now after the breakup of this 12 year relationship, I would think because even though she was in the right person for you, it's still a big breakup. 12 years together, that's a long time with someone in your life. What helped you, I guess, get back into the dating game and also have marriage as a forefront of what you're looking for. I don't think I was looking for marriage. Honestly, I had told myself, oh, single life's kind of fun. I had gotten used to being by myself, which took a lot of work. You know, the first month after the breakup was tragic. I had, you know, a lot of stuff happened in one week. I left a job that I was, you know, really, really good friends with the owner of that job and he abandoned me and then the breakup happened. So it all happened within a few days. So it was just like a lot of new stuff happening. It was a very lonely time, then some self work and realizing that time by myself was actually really great. I was like, shoot this might be, I might not need to get married. I've kind of liked this life not having responsibility doing what I want to do because I felt held back doing a lot of stuff in that relationship. So ultimately it wasn't, I don't want to call it a toxic relationship, but it wasn't like a great there wasn't a lot of give and take. So it wasn't a great relationship. But yeah, I mean, it was a weird transition into life. And I kind of fell in love with it for a while, but then dating was kind of weird. I didn't really know how to do it. Truth be told, you know, it turned out fantastic off the short relationships that I did have during that time, which was probably 6 months after the breakup. I'm glad how they all turned out. And I always leaned on Kelsey for advice. What do you think about this person, whatever trouble is that we might have had in the first month or so of those relationships. So it was a clear sign that they just weren't the right people. And I wasn't great at picking people. So were you on dating apps and using them or were you meeting people differently? It was, that was one thing that I don't know why I had a weird relationship with it.

00:35:05 - 00:40:04

I don't know. I never really went that route. I had downloaded the apps, but I was a little nervous and gun shy to be like, let's go on a date. The actual DMing would go on probably way too long, then what the other person was looking for. So ultimately, the couple of relationships that I found were organic. It was ultimately through this community of group fitness that we kind of had out of here as Friends of Friends and so yeah, I didn't really lean heavy into the dating apps. Got it. And then for a lot of people listening, they're going to think, I already know, because I'm thinking the same thing is. How do you know this is the right person for you if you haven't been together that long? And also people have this fear of commitment. What if this doesn't last forever? And seeing that you got out of this long-term relationship and bouncing back and believing in marriage again, how were you able to take that leap of faith to know that the abandonment that you had experienced before, you don't want to experience that again in this current relationship? Yeah, I mean, this situation was ideal, right? Like, I feel like everybody at the end of the day wants to marry their best friend. And it is tough to get into that vulnerable situation with people and really show who you are. But that's the best way to do it. And I feel like forcing stuff is not going to give you the results you're looking for. So if there's a relationship that you feel like you're holding something back because you don't think this person will like it and you don't want to go for that, then I feel like you just got to get out of it. You just have to have to realize that there is going to be something out there. And the best way to do it, the best way to find it. And I've experienced this with her because she is always a 100% herself with everybody that she was with. And the fact that their loss was my game, but the fact that they didn't see how amazing that was, that's what I fell in love with. She's a 100% just unapologetically herself and the best way possible. She makes me such a better person because of it. And yeah, I think that's it. You can't hold back in hopes that this is the right relationship. What I love about your story is that you got to see the unpolished versions of yourself. Especially with deeding culture where you go into everything that it's a date, I need to evaluate if this is going to be my life partner. You're putting on this date self version. And you're not letting someone see the messy authentic side of you that actually can be what people fall in love with. And I always wonder too. If you got to see this side of her that she may be didn't even share with other people because it was so in this forced context versus you that was just like, hey, this is my friend, you know? I'm not trying to do anything. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. That's a great point. I don't know how she was. I mean, I imagine that she just how I see her interact with other people and just in groups and when we're out. I just, I know that she is that person. She never hides herself. So I imagine that's how she was and her dating life. And it just wasn't right for people, which is fine, you know? She realized that. I don't think she really ever tried to force anything. Well, that's the other side, right? It's like 95% of people aren't going to be batches. I guess at your words. What is marriage mean to you? How do you define love and marriage? I mean, I think the top two things is just loving somebody unconditionally, doing anything that you could possibly do for that person. And respect, I feel like that's one thing that we've had. We've had so much respect for one another and kind of stemming from that. We are so open and we communicate so much, which that was something that we both lacked in our last relationships, which didn't work because of it. We settled because we thought that's what it was supposed to be. And we weren't super vocal about that. So that's one thing that we said from the get go. We've already had this yearlong establishment of being so open and vulnerable and transparent and showing so much respect that that's what made the relationship so good. So why would it not? Why would we not put that into the marriage too? So it's unconditional love and respect, all the way. And what made you decide to just get married a post just date longer, you know? I guess on what side you could be like, oh, well, you bet your solvate. Like what's the rush? What made you be like, no, I really do believe in marriage and I want this to happen. I don't know. It was just, it was so us for us to kind of do that and pull the trigger in Vegas and to have a Vegas wedding, which, by the way, I recommend everybody should do at one point in their life. Even the married ones. Yes, go back and do it. But now, you know, we were just we were so committed. And we already had the yearlong dating. And we're actually doing like a traditional wedding and everything we booked our venue for next year, but okay. I don't know. I don't want to call it like a why not situation because I feel like that kind of takes a luster out of it. It was just like a special moment for us. I feel that instead of dating long-term, you could also say, you already did that, right? Yeah. I've already been in a long-term dating situation. And what I love about this story is that everything is about you two. It's not for other people. Proposal wasn't for other people to see the whole marriage ceremony wasn't for other people to see.

00:40:05 - 00:45:07

It was just you two. And the fact that you were like, it's just so us. That makes no sense to me, but it makes all the sense to you. And that's all that really matters, right? Ultimately, in a partnership, so amazed that this all happened so fast, but there must have been some seeds planted in your upbringing in your childhood. How did you see marriage when you were growing up? What did it mean to you? Oh, I love my parents so, so much. They are. They have their quirks. They have their just these awesome qualities. But I didn't have the best relationship with marriage. I feel like my father was a lot more into the into the marriage than my mother. I just spoke to my father a few months ago, and I found this just absolutely bizarre, but he's like, I feel like your mother's never been able to be completely vulnerable. He loves her for who she is, and he's seen a lot of sides of her, but he just feels like she's never been able to like, he's ever seen her cry before, or break down to him about something. So I love them so much, but I just feel like I didn't really have that great marriage to look up to. You know, I saw it in other friends and other of my friend's parents, but as far as in my household, my parents were never like affectionate and calcium and I are disgustingly affectionate. Yeah, so I don't know. I think it's just like, I love how you said that UA and somebody else actually said that to us too, that we already did the dating thing. We were with somebody for such a long period of time. She was engaged at one point, so she did that. I don't know. We didn't need that. So I think it was kind of unfamiliar to us. This feeling of this emotion for somebody else, that we just wanted to capture it. So I feel like that's what we did. Well, I love too that you said one of the things that's drew you to her so much is how vulnerable she was. And you said that you're very affectionate, which are basically the opposite of what you saw. And I've heard that a lot and I know I've experienced that too. It's like sometimes, you know, we all think like, oh, some of that wants to get married. They probably had this message from an early day about getting married, but sometimes it's like, oh, I actually recognize that this is something amazing because it's different than what I saw. Yeah, I mean, that could be it. Like the lack of it that I didn't see is something that I didn't want I didn't want my relationship to be like that. Yeah, you're like, I need to hold on to this. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny. Our parents are actually in town this past weekend. They met for the first time. Her parents, they have an awesome, awesome love story. They're very affectionate and it started out as a relationship where father was her dad was really trying to get going on a date with her mother and she just kept ignoring him and just kept blocking him and all of this and then finally went on a date. She said she's never left the way that he made her laugh the entire night and that was it for them. So now that I just see how affectionate that passionate they are. So I can definitely see where she gets it from. It was kind of the opposite of me. Interesting. Let's hold that thought for a few messages. Do you remember like when you first started to think about marriage or like even the thought about marriage even popped into your mind? Probably like, I mean, towards the end of college, I would say, I feel like that was kind of when it felt a little more a little more pressured. But yeah, I never really had that idea of being married or having kids or never really felt maybe like that I was even in a stable enough part in my life where I could even have that. I always felt like just going through college and stuff, kind of like switching programs and I always felt kind of behind the 8 ball as far as being where other people were like my peers were. So by the time we graduated, a lot of my Friends were getting engaged and I had friends that were having kids like two years after college and I was like, I can't even imagine doing that right now. But seeing that around me, obviously, it was a thought. And always received pressure from my ex's family from her about doing it. That pressure never, if anything, it deterred me from getting married, hearing that all the time. Yeah, exactly. You and your ex had conversations about getting married. Just didn't want to pull the trigger. Yeah, I mean, I guess you can go on an excuse was that I kind of going back to the stability thing. I'd never felt like I was going to be in a position to feel comfortable enough to get married and to start a family. So. Trace, have you watched the ultimatum on Netflix? I just saw it scrolling through the other day. It is like when everyone's excuse was basically. Yeah, a lot of the men are like looking for stability and then throughout the experiment, they uncover that these are excuses because when you're in a committed partnership, you work through these, I guess, blockers together if you want to call them. But also another blocker is fear. People talk about fear all the time and I'm sure you face a lot of that too when you're dating or even during your breakup. How were you able? And I've asked this a few different ways, but I'm going to ask this directly. How are you able to overcome the fear of really investing in someone and you're taking a risk putting your emotions in their hands? Gosh, I don't know. That's a really good question. I don't know if I was, it took me some warming up to, I'm sure, to be able to be vulnerable with this person, I didn't really know.

00:45:07 - 00:50:08

But I think there was a night when we were out a few of us at dinner, and we were kind of talking about our past. And I really hadn't talked about it too much with Kelsey or she didn't really hear the story too much. She didn't want to pry, but once I opened up about that, she started to open up about hers too. And she even said that night was a turning point for our relationship. She remembers that night instantly that I was willing and able to talk about that. So I guess that is, that's when that was a couple of months after we were hanging out constantly. But that was a big, you know, leeway into us being able to have all those open and very transparent, real conversations. And I don't know. I would have done anything for this person and she would have done the same for me, so I just had so much trust in her. There was just no fear. This was the wrong decision to make. I've never been so certain. My parents were like, you are never the person to make a decision like that. Spontaneous like that. And you always, you know, you're very indecisive with a lot of the stuff that you do. And not in a bad way, they're just like, you think stuff through. And it just felt so there was just not one ounce of doubt that this was the right move to make. So I think part of why this, what do you tell me about you? She's like, we need to have my friend tracer. And because I think there's such this notion that bed are such commitment folks, right? And it's always the woman that's trying to push things along and I've heard so many friends be like, yeah, I subtly put Tiffany's as his screensaver on his computer. Messages. Like, I guess, what are your thoughts about women needing to put pressure on it? Is it truly just like, you're at a double T? Or is it that they're not with the right people? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it's case by case, but I think, you know, I understand that one thing also is a game against time too, right? Like the egg freezing I know is a big thing for her and doing that. So I could understand that she was with somebody for 8 years and the marriage never happened that that was a massive amount of time to invest. It is like an investment, right? You're investing into a relationship. But I don't know. I guess one long-lasting running joke in my last relationship is that I slipped up about like 5 years in our relationship, somebody had gotten married that we were like, oh my gosh, she got engaged after a year or two. And she was like, I can't believe it. And I was like, yeah, I guess when you know you know. So that stuck with her for so long, thinking back on that terrible. And I mean, that was a sign right there for both of us to be like, all right, this obviously isn't going to, it's been this long and no signs of real commitment that next step of commitment. But now, we just ordered a neon sign for our apartment that literally says when you know you know. No, no wait, wait. Wait, that's just one of the phrases life comes at you fast is what we made it. But when you know you know, is one of our big phrases for our relationship. Oh my gosh. I mean, I don't know if there's a right answer because I do think that everyone is different. The way that process things, like put that at the same time, you don't want to be wasted your time. I could see both perspectives of it. How do you start to have those conversations with someone in your opinion if you're not on the same page? I mean, I think that's obviously where the show came from, the ultimatum, right? Like you either you have to bring it up and it is, I think we had that discussion a lot in my past relationship and it was just I didn't feel stable and ready to do it. And it's hard. You have to be vulnerable and honest with people when they ask you, where is this going? Do you see a marriage happening? Are you invested in this? Like, I am. So I don't know. It's definitely, it's definitely case by case. And I ultimatums, to me, aren't the best options to do stuff. I'm not really sure how to approach that. What is so fascinating to me is a lot of people feel like you really need to vet your partner before you get married. Because people are so afraid of marrying the wrong person, but as part of the vetting process, we tend to hold back a lot of ourselves because we're trying to we're trying to put our best foot forward. We're trying to set someone out for potential relationship that we aren't putting our a 100% into the relationship. And I think that what causes the downfall for a lot of relationships because people aren't being fully who they are. But if we do take on this mentality of, if both people want to get married and they're in that stage of wanting to explore this, do it. Just get married. I feel like that should be the slogan. Just do it because you can't be scared of what the future holds. We do not know what the future holds. What you can control is your present time of both people are on the same page. Don't be scared. Just fucking go for it. Yeah. I mean, living example of that. Well, I think the reality, too, is that people are always going to be growing. I think living proof of having a 12 year relationship, you know? It's like it just because it's asserted about a time doesn't mean that that's going to solve all the problems.

00:50:09 - 00:55:04

So yeah, while it's definitely, I don't know, mixed on this, it's like on one side. I do think giving it a little time isn't a bad thing because it is more of a commitment than just breaking up, especially when children in the works are entered into the picture. But I also agree there has to be a point that you just kind of take the leap of faith too. Because you can overanalyze things all day long and find reasons to hold if you really want to. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, if you have that discussion with somebody and they're like, listen, this is where I'm at. I want to get married and the other person's hesitant, or they're not ready yet. And I feel like it's your timeline, right? No matter what, it's your decision to make, and it's your life that you're living. So it's hard and it's like harsh reality and it's easy for me to say it now, but going through all of this, I've gotten perspective on that that I wish I had a long time ago. It's so hard to talk about timing in this entire conversation, right? Because what if there was a time when you weren't ready to get married? Right after the breakup, you're just trying to navigate dating. What have you missed someone awesome during that time? You said I'm not ready for marriage, but maybe later down the line. Should that person have waited and maybe caught you when you're finally ready or was just that person not right for you because they came at that time during your life? I mean, this whole relationship is timing. I firmly believe that everything is about timing. And this just the stars align with this. But yeah, I mean, I had a relationship, something that I thought I felt a sense of pride with this relationship that I had before Kelsey. It was somebody that I could take around and she was super sweet, super nice. Ultimately it just didn't work. My excuse was timing. My excuse was like, I wasn't ready to commit, first of all, I wasn't obviously that engagement or anything, but just like to commit to a title to commit to a relationship. And it didn't work out for that. And that was on the very, very tail end of big bear happening. So it was everything was about timing. This whole relationship is literally built on timing. So what's next for you guys? The actual ceremony we talked about that, but I've already moved in and yeah, so we have, yeah, the actual ceremony is happening. I still have a proposal planned. Real proposals. I want to do as untraditional and kind of ask backwards and this whole relationship and I love that. I love that. No, but what if we all got into relationships and said, a year from now we're going to get married. So starting now. Towards that marriage? I mean, I think it's awesome. I mean, another thing that's crazy too is our two best friends that I mentioned four of us. We were all talking about what kind of partner we wanted. We're all single at the same time. We're all going through our own shit at that point. And we always thought that relationships because that was kind of our goal. We went out on the weekends to try to find somebody and Kelsey and I were always on the same page against the other two that we wanted to marry our best friend. We wanted somebody that could hang out with our best Friends without us being there. We wanted somebody that didn't need us at all of the events and could go hang out with if her brother was in town, go hang out with him and just that kind of situation. So we really lucked out in that perspective. I think that's like what you want to do. You want it like you're most vulnerable person with the people that are closest to you and typically those are your Friends those are your family. So having a relationship that starts in such a strong friendship, such an open and deep connection, I feel like is the key to finding somebody for you. So much so. Yes. It's so backwards for modern day day today. It is. I mean, there's so many takeaways from this. Thank you, first of all, for sharing your story. I think this is really inspirational for a lot of people because it is so different than the way modern dating works. Like the opposite pretty much. And I think everything you've said is just how it felt right. Of course, like you need to be don't enter bad situations. We're not saying don't think at all. Of course, there was a lot of things that was pointing that this was a great romantic prospect. I really believe that we can talk ourselves out of anything if we let our minds play into it. So sometimes it is really just checking in with how am I feeling? What is my gut telling me? And you know, once you're in a committed state, you could make things work. Like that's the key to relationships failing is when one or both people aren't ready to make that full commitment that they're holding back in some way. So the fact that you kind of just kind of dove in, it's really good for anyone that is feeling like they're mentally looking through a checklist or really weighing the pros and cons repeatedly. Sometimes you need to just under think it not let your own brain get in your way. Right. Yeah, I think it's trusting your gut. It's laying that foundation. I feel like it's the biggest thing. You know, having that vulnerability with somebody, I love that not really just checking off the list.

00:55:05 - 01:00:00

We knew exactly who we were as people, how much we loved. It was just a recipe for a perfect future. We're so excited. It's because we know we've been so open about how we want a relationship to go. How important a relationship is to us and how everything has to work together and what's super significant and important that needs to happen. And we've been so transparent and forthcoming with what we expect of a partner. And that communication level and that vulnerability level, I feel like is the biggest thing. We feel like we are literally unstoppable that if we do run into obstacles and adversities, which we're so happy right now because that hasn't happened, but are we realistic that it's going to happen? Absolutely. But the thing is that we feel like we already have such a good foundation. We have resources already that we can pull from and tools that we can use just being best friends and talking stuff out for the past year that we're just going to lean on that. I think that's key. Marry your best friend and also laying the foundation, the foundation of a friendship is something we forget in modern dating. You see people in early dating, treating each other like shit because they're trying to play the game of like, oh, can I get this person to like me more? But the foundation of a good relationship is a strong friendship and some of the things that people do in modern dating, they would never do to their friends. Are you fucking kidding me? Don't return their friends text messages or standing someone up because you had other plans, better plans to do. You would never do that to a friend. So I think that's like a huge takeaway from this conversation. When you are dating someone, you're building that friendship first and seeing if you can be friends with this person before you can layer on some of the more romantic aspects of a relationship. And I think my other big takeaway from that is because when you are friends, you don't have preconceived notions, there's no judgment. So you can have more of the real conversations that you are talking about trace that a lot of people don't have when it comes to early dating. And I love the fact that you were saying, you don't need a good example of marriage to be in a good marriage. You don't need a good example of love or relationship to be in a good, loving relationship. I think this is where we can feel so empowered to create our own love and our own relationships instead of saying, I don't have the guidebook, I don't have people before me to lay out the steps for me. Great. That's even better because now you can take the steps to create the love that you want that fits you, who cares what other people think because it's not them, it's about you and your partner. You guys definitely created your own path and I love that about this story. Oh yeah. Yeah, we've written our own story and we're excited to see what's in store. Thank you also sees the day. I think so many times we think about the future over analyze that or we get caught in the past, but you were just like, I enjoy being with this person in the present and I want to make every day more of this. And I think that sometimes it can be just that simple. Sometimes we do just really overanalyze. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's being present and what you have. And not looking at the past. And using that and realizing that it's created the person that you're becoming. And I feel like we use that to our advantage. Well, it's been such a pleasure to hear the story for the second time for myself, but I got more details. Thanks for asking for all the details, Julie. Talk about that. That's what I'm here for. I was like, hold up. We need to go. Hold on. Let's rewind. Let's remind skimmed over that one. Yeah. When you were on the bed, what exactly? So thank you so much again, trace for telling us your story and thank you for all of our listeners because we love sharing stories like this. It gives us hope and it just shows a different way of doing love. And everybody has their own way. You just have to figure it out for yourself. And it should be a fun and exciting process when you meet that person when you know you know that no healing is like the best feeling in the world. We hope that everybody gets to experience that feeling as sometime in their life. So thank you again for that trace and for all of our listeners. We love hearing all the things from you, especially when it comes to reviews in Apple podcasts. Sent us a little love letter on Apple podcast, maybe 5 stars, you know, in the review section. Pay it forward. Seize the day, right? Do it. Do it for love. Okay, we're gonna wrap up this episode. The dateable podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcasts you'll love at frolic media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation? First, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter with the handle at dateable podcast.

01:00:01 - 01:01:43

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