Kurt talks about a roller coaster relationship with many mixed messages. We talk about effective communication between men and women. We also discuss the extent of fighting for your relationship and why people are afraid of commitment.
S1E1 She loves me She loves me not
00:00:00 - 00:05:13
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech center and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches meet like minded people who share your interests over brunch. The dateable podcast was started by a group of friends who are sharing. sf dating stories one day and thought. Why don't we start dating podcast so tada here. We are enjoy our first episode. Everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. Show that opens up a candid conversation about dating in san francisco and next to me. I have the wonderful woman who is in. She's in some sort of yoga attire but yet button-down shirt very Very wonderful combination. Her name. is you a and next to me. We've got what you're wearing. Ten years of fun damasus In process shirt because he is the king of improv. Michael vargas His last name a lot and we've also got a room full of people you guys can't see but we have an audience today Drinking memo says and eating chocolate covered pretzels. So it's gonna be good tasty each episode we dissect a dating story and today we have a good buddy of mine. His name is kirk and yes ladies. He is very handsome. Kurt give your stats i. He's also very bashful burger. Mec- you kurt you are. They're so curt. If i'm not mistaken you have a little bit of a story for us today. Let's see so so several years ago. I met a girl at a party and we pretty instantaneously. Hit it off Flirting and spent a good person the night together we so we hit it off but then kept on living in different cities she she was visiting the city. And then you know. And then i moved away and then we moved back on but we always kept in touch and whenever we were in the same city. We're always really excited to see each other so then so then fast forward to what's now about a year ago. We were finally living in the same city here in san francisco for living in the same city for the first time and so we started seeing each other like more bit more seriously. I guess except that it would go back and forth between us being really excited to see each other and being broken up like literally like one week to the next so just back and forth yes ronn. Today we're off tomorrow. Ron right exactly where you guys sleeping together. Yeah yeah so. It was mostly kind of her having commitments. Yeah right. I think in i think in fairness as well i i hadn't actually been in a serious relationship in on in a few years at that point and so i think i was definitely like forgetting what it was like to be a good boyfriend. I guess but one so so one example. We went to this really fancy holiday party like our friends and you know we were really excited to go to this party together. And then by the end of the night she was she literally said like never want to see you again and and and the reason from her perspective is. She thought that. I was like flirting with with all of her friends. And i think like. I do have a fairly flirtatious personality so So that was the end of the night with us leaving separately together not not leaving together and then i forget what exactly brought us together again but then we did end up starting to see each other again for a bit and so we were seeing the regularly and then i asked her like a officially be my girlfriend and that she was excited about that. Yeah so awesome. And then and then like two weeks later she was like i want to break up and so it was like okay and so so funny funniest i guess we were talking about like you know why she wasn't is interested in the relationship and she and she cited a bunch of things but generally was just felt like i wasn't.
00:05:13 - 00:10:24
She felt like i wasn't committed to the relationship and ample of this was that i didn't change my relationship status on facebook to be like in a relationship dates rob and my reply to this. Look we've been on and off for a few years like like this literally. Is exactly why i didn't change my relationship status because i basically expected this to happen and then to two weeks after that we. I'm out at some bar with some friends and we run into each is completely randomly. And we're really excited to see each other kissing holding hands being and so so then like as so. She already has plans to go to another bar with her friends. But i'm like why don't you come over tonight like after that. And she's like. Yeah i would love to so then. We're texting a bit. And then as like and then she gets into the cab with her friends to go the next bar and literally a minute after she leaves she texts me and i don't think we should be friends anymore. And then the following week she texts me and is like hey. Do you wanna talk about being sometime. And so then then. I sent her the screen cap of the texas sent a previous week. You and that's basically where our relationship ended so no we have not way so this is this is very interesting because i'm gonna give you my female perspective of this. I definitely don this done this. Not because i wanted to be a crazy bitch on purpose but really. I needed something from the guy. I just didn't know how to verbalize it and in this situation. It really sounds like she needed your attention as she needed your commitment but she needed something more definitive some sort of like a formation. Like i wanna be with you. I want to commit to you. I want you to be my girlfriend. I want to be with you. And so i got a question for you do you. Is there anything looking on it that using she needed. Yeah i mean. Like i said i hadn't i hadn't been in a relationship for a few years and so i feel like when i when i made it official like. Do you want to be my girlfriend like nothing. Nothing substantive changed about early ship after that point or like not a lot and so i think she she just wanted more. You know what you're saying. She wanted more demonstration like okay. What is what is that. Were that were actually in relationship. So defined the terms of the contract right and also. She wanted it to be public now in this age. Everyone's very careful about changing their relationship. Status like you said like. I saw this coming so i didn't talk preemptive changing your relationship. Status on facebook is almost legally binding in some way right plead the fifth signature of the contrary to that point. Yeah and nobody doesn't anymore. Nobody changes a relationship status anymore. Except for when you're like buried. That's when you're like in a back off and one for you kurt like it. Sounds like you were also a very tough position as well because it sounds like you're trying to do elements of that. You're trying to do elements of more consistency. And so you got a lot of back and forth back and forth in a variety of ways. So i imagine that that was hard to figure out to do with when it when it was so ever changing. It was and i think i've heard this concept of of languages. Different people express level right. And i think i definitely think there was an element of that in this relationship. Because so when when we had this break-up talk where she was. I don't want to be in a relationship anymore. We kind of talked about this how she like wanted more expression and so so i told her i was like you know so my previous girlfriends like i'd buy them flowers out of the blue and things like that and she was a yeah. I don't really like flowers. Yeah something like that. And so i you know i did actually ask her like what you know. What would you prefer head. And i don't. I don't really recall line on conversation going anywhere in particular yet. I think there's a lot of people have a hard time identifying what it is that they would like to receive that showcase. Love some people again. We've talked about the five love languages previously. But sometimes it's really hard to know what we want and also what we actually liked to give may sometimes be different than what we actually like to receive definitely and i think in this case you guys just obviously didn't communicate clearly enough when you understand what you need and you need to also understand how to ask for it from the other partner and it just didn't sound like you guys were actually communicating on the same frequency cannot producer.
00:10:25 - 00:15:02
Yes comment from our producer. Julian producer. julie. Having word yes i feel. I don't know if you guys have heard of the rules in any of the awful dating books that are out there males like this girl was just like reading out the story. It feels like she's like. I'm not getting the attention i need. I'm gonna do this. I'll let them pull this book told me to do the chase with these tents of books like the out of the advice that's given to females how they should actually you're saying do not make you feel good but was there anything about it. That kept you a treats. I wouldn't say that. The i mean certainly made it I certainly thought about it. More of this requiring more mental effort. I'm emotional effort. But i think what i would i would say that is. I'm already interested in her so playing. These games doesn't make me more more entry and the unfortunate thing about this. Is that not only. Do women have books that they read and then they go play by the rules of the cray guys. I mean there's a there's you know a lot of people know about pickup artists. And that's unfortunately a lot of elements of manipulation and an ending for it to be in goal and so a lot of guys follow that format and that kinda causes a lot of destruction as well so i think we as men and women have a lot of dirty laundry to clean out function kart. I do have another thought for you so every time she pulled away. Why didn't you fight harder for her. Few moments that no one was busy in my life. i don't. I only have so much bandwidth yet bandwidth than your dislike suitable cynicism that much to me but i mean this other situations into is is the guy you also have this fear of being like a stalker reaper If off a woman is saying right because if you read where is the line between like fighting somebody like you right. Unlike locals russell bay Fucking weirdo do experience. Your egos away early a little pride. I would say it's not legal. I know i would say on. Kurt's behalf that when we watch movies and it's love movies. There's this guy that's like dude. Like looking at the top of a tree with a mustache on his face right. Unlike all this montage of all these things that this guy is doing that extreme yet the movies do a great job of making adorable if they want to write like they're good at making it look like okay. He's really fighting for and then on the other hand they're really good at it. Look like oh this person's neurotic obsessive and all that stuff so it's very difficult to find that actual lies of when you want to put in energy to the point of. You're actually trying to work hard for this person to the point where it's just too much right. I totally agree with that. I mean low. Low is session in ways. And so if if you're making the distinction between winning sunday obsessed the night away obsessing the positive way it ultimately with right is this wanted i but i do feel like a lot of people. Want that grand gesture right. It's not just about you saying no. Let's not break up. I want to be with you. But in some ways we wanna fantasize about this grand gesture we're gonna make to fight for our love like to get us back. Show up at our door with flowers and in riding on a horse riding on a horse or hold boombox in the rain. I don't know i fantasize about that. I'm sure i'm not the only one. How much would you have to like someone to make a grand gesture like that would also about is i. I've definitely done that happened in a gain of point of not just answering that question it would. We would have had more released. I agree with that. The amount of time that's already established in it allowing for more comfort and more understanding comes of people encourage.
00:15:03 - 00:20:00
There's always this comment of the grand gesture from the guy to seeing romantic but then if the will does it it's totally seen stalkers in crazy. I think i. i don't think that's true. I think i think it. I think this kind of generally apply. Like i remember one time. I was dating someone and We haven't we didn't see each other in a while. She was busy busy so i thought that she wasn't going to be able to hang out. And then so. I hang out with some friends and that she comes to the house and she brings all this food and she's ready to hang out with me and that was all food as a good call off especially remain any listeners. Here wanna make me happy. Just give me a fluid and so it's just a plug for me so that i mean it wasn't tremendously gran but it was. That was something that was really nice and well received than just. It made me feel fantastic. I think it's totally able for that to happen. I'd love to ask you what is your takeaway from all this. Now that we've had a little bit of discussion about you know your experience. What is something that you're taking away is based on this on us vice. You more. Be more courageous. What changed one man. That's a good one fighting for what you want right and being willing to take more of a stance into what is it that you really care about and you know whether it works out or not. Only that gave more of your all. I think that's tremendous might take away from this as before you say something that could potentially hurt your relationship or hurt your partner mixture one. You really mean it to you. You have something to back it up three. You have a resolution for it. So if i say something like i think. I don't think we should be together anymore. I need to give reasons for it and to what are the chances that we could make this work right so i think sometimes we say things out of spite and then we regret it later and then we have to like retrace our steps and it's it's not easy to once a words are out. You can't get them back. So that means Put yourself in time outs. Folks timeouts workman roughly My my takeaway is the idea of really getting to us try. I think giving it the old college try and looking ourselves at at what level that we do that in is important. Meaning am i going to go wild and crazy for someone i just met or is it gonna take time before we let out the cray you know. So i think context is a big factor And i think it's something that we should all search one question on the day. This question of the day comes from samantha. Jones amanda jones like from seconds so samantha jones. Ask why are people so afraid of commitment. That's chronic very ironic listeners. Occurred why people so pretty commitment by the way folks. Just you know needs on top of me right now. He is flirting with me. Only appreciate it. Why have you amendment. I think that. I mean. I think especially here in san francisco. People are just doing so much they want to. They want to be successful in the careers. They wanna be wanna world. They want to go to burning man rear. They wanna you yoga every day on. Eat green smoothies every day. So people people are just really involved in in what they're doing and so they don't wanna make any sacrifices side right but being being in a relationship in much more often than not doesn't fall sacrifices of some kind and so it's how you have you bridge those two points of new. I actually find this to be very unique to san francisco where this city attracts people who put their relationships in the back burner for a long time so everybody can concentrate on their careers and all of a sudden. We're gathered in the city. Where a lot of us don't have much of a relationship History and now. It's much harder for us to allow someone else into our lives and putting out putting someone else as priority so it's not so much fear it's almost like Lacking the knowledge and lacking the experience to know what's like to have someone else share our lives. Yeah that definitely puts people in hard positioning. They want a good relationship but they don't know what a good relationship is hotter. They find that right. I think another aspect too is people.
00:20:02 - 00:22:22
I think people are afraid of failure and so if they put time and energy relationship. None of us know what's going to happen. That's a very scary thought because people emotionally invested in emotions are very powerful. I mean that's how marketing and everything works is through our emotions and so when we start letting people play with those in a way not necessarily play but experience our emotions. That's one pain increases in humans. Want to stay away from pain. Go towards pleasure. And i think that's what a lot of people are free to. I think i think another thing that maybe as particular to san francisco or even even a lot of california is. There's this whole mythology of you. Go right you go out west to cedar fortune and california's the land where Infant dreams country in hollywood silicon valley. And so there's this that in okay. I'm i'm young now. I'm going to work hard. And then finally. When i when i made it when i've gone to the top of the world when i'm thirty thirty five forty like immediate that thinking about settling down and and and more overall also down with somebody who is the caliber of where i will be fifty and so people don't Do you wanna be committed. Now when they're like okay. My life is going to be so much better when i'm in my thirties. So i'm i'm not going to settle down. Is somebody that. I can You know that i can date. When i'm mike. Tomlin is always slippery slope. Always never in place. You want to be exactly not a few years. Three years lend keeps up on. You does okay. we're gonna wrap this up Don't forget to submit your stories and remember you can always be anonymous. We can change your name. Change your voice whatever We wanna make it safe. And private dislike samantha jones. Protect tread again. Submit your stories but we also want to hear your comments on some of the topics we've been talking about. I'm sure you guys have a lot to contribute. What are you guys thinking. Also one final thing. Stay old dateable. Podcasts is recorded in san francisco. We would like to thank our sponsor five hundred branches. Were making this happen to connect with us. Visit date. Able podcast dot com.