John tells us about his setup with an older woman from a matchmaker. We discuss the importance of life-stage in relationships and preconceptions around age.
S1E5 Frozen Eggs
00:00:00 - 00:05:04
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons progress. The fun part is things happen. I san francisco the tech center and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches meet like minded people who share your interests over brunch so for this episode. Both michael and i were traveling and we had no sound equipment. So please excuse the sound quality but i promise you this is a good one. Everyone welcome to another episode of denial. A show that opens a candid conversation about dating in san francisco and the male voice. You just heard comes from mega vargas. Ask the woman who just is a lovely lovely introductions to me is our fun you so on each episode we dissect a dating story sicko on the phone right now. We have john donohue. Are you there. Hey thanks for having me on. What is your story This happened to me a little while ago. It's been a bit but I had just gotten out of a pretty interesting pretty intense relationship and I was actually hanging out my office. Monday and it was. It was a cloud working stage and other san francisco thing and a really good friend of mine in the office. Had a bunch of her girlfriends over sort of just hanging out a day. One of her friends happened to be a matchmaker. So as we're talking to match making sure that me but the types of women that i like instead of asking me questions like tall. Sure smart funny quiet. Do i like growth. Read a lot et cetera. So she's attracted this. This woman that i you know sounded like it'd be attracted you and i was like. Yeah bringeth thinking you know. This is amazing. I've got adams relationship. And now i have a friend literally hooking the end of the matchmaker to go on a date. Now thinking about this. Most people think about matchmakers in terms of. Oh i'm gonna go hire a matchmaker because i want to get married or i wanna find his ears relationship and i and i can see that happening in san francisco a lot because it's easy debut and it's easy to sleep would be when it's hard to find a stable long-term relationship or find somebody that you wanna marry for whatever reason water cold coltrane san francisco commitment is just not a thing that people usually go for Didn't really surprise me. Got that you know that there was a a match your business year. What was funny about it. Was i was on the other. Interact right so somebody had paid this woman money to set her up on dates and here. I was In the process of being setup wanna dates so we're talking about. We're talking about the woman and she's gonna she's gonna introduce him to and then she asked questions she's like how do you feel about over women and she's like oh she's thirty six thirty seven now. I'm you know. I'm still under thirty. So i'm sitting here thinking and i told her straight. Listen that's a big as jumped from me right now and i know what somebody at that stage of their life is after. And that's probably not me. I love to go out on a date with them. But it'll probably be casual. So i just want to tell you right now. I wanted to that expectation like If if this person's looking for something very serious then. I'm not going to be the right thing you know. Because i didn't want her. You know it's like this business is also somebody on the other end of the equation. You the phone number And i call her. I call you know. I probably blind date and we agree to go out You know twenty thirty minutes into the attracted to each other. She's beautiful you know. I'm kinda into it. But i can argue search like oh i don't know how how far this is gonna go. Sometimes when you go on like on. I kinda tell there's no magic here There was chemistry. But you know like. I knew it wasn't going to be like a long term thing and You know i'm. I'm asking her about what she's into she's like well. You know i'm i'm really for a serious relationship I'd like to find somebody to settle down with shoes telling me about her dog. This is super acute conversation The chemistry starts to happen right.
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So you know after a little bit. I share the axiom. Probably gonna make out which you deny. And she like earth face lights up in chicago and and we still had a little bit less grinch. So you know things are going on the second third or fourth drink whatever and i said watson joining the lodge bar and she looks at me and goes a why. Wait so i so so we end up immediately. So we're now we're making bar. We went out on another date. Or just you But that was really the end of it. I gotta ask you know a couple more days than ended but you got anything else about how ending or just kinda like you guys goes. Did you guys say hey. I'm i'm looking for something more. Like how dot part at so a couple of things happened. We went to a barter. We went near her apartment which is in a different area of san francisco which is also a big deal. You're going to a different neighborhood And i was sick right so like i was even trying to beg off for the data. I wanna get you sick. And she's like now unless you see like okay. Fine i'll do it. It don't wanna drink tonight. It's just like spicy. Asian the more awesome and then you know whatever and so so. She's like cool going. Get it She made some joked about giving her hot toddy and then an hour before the That hate me at this bar. So i meet her the bar. We have couple of drinks. I should just like i. Shouldn't i shouldn't have had any alcohol. Because i didn't need it. we went to dinner and then i woke up the next morning and thought this is not how i wanted to be spending my time. So yes i ghosted. i Boo all it is a. I've heard many stories. So that's the. I mean we even have a term for. It goes thing right shin If you didn't know her age before going into the date to you think your interaction would have been different. 'cause like maybe like a five eight year difference Yeah but it's it's a pretty important five to eight years you know like if it had any other way around it like you know my late mid to late thirty. That's a little bit different like one that age like she has seriously. There's only a few more years if she wants to have kids. She's really gonna like be able to do that You know unless she's frozen or something like that. I really wanted take that seriously. That's for life and family that we're talking about there and i don't want to waste any time. That's what they need to do next. I would love to hear from you you a about this. 'cause this isn't the first time i've heard guys talk about this. Where they don't want to where they're not in a space time mitch. So they don't want to really progress other relationship with a woman who's older. Who maybe you want to have kids or what. I'm curious as to. What are your thoughts about that. So first of all i think with misleading is Age because i think it's really about life stage and i wish that we could We could charge each other better based on life stage. Now my issue not issue. But i find this interesting is that we've talked to people. Men who prefer dating older women but older meaning in the forties so something happened between thirty to forty where you date a woman in their thirty in her thirties. It's more sensitive. Because of course a little period she can still. She may still want kids. She may still wanna family. She may still want to hurry things. Something a switch must turn on or off when she's in her forties because we had younger guys and tell us that women in their. They're less maintenance. Because they're more. Like spock attitude so they're much easier to date. I think that's a part of it. And also i think women at that age. They're more confident in themselves. They're more kind of know what they want for their lives so they also have that mentality of like. Hey this at like confidence probably telling us from may have. They don't have anything to lose anymore. You know along along that having kids are not like they know where they're at and they control is more on just themselves and having a good time and enjoying were joined the lice joining the company of somebody whether it's a younger man or not so there is issue of the biological clock. And i felt the minute i threw thirty. I've had friends who frozen their eggs and last year and all come across the board had told me dating. Show much more fun after they are at and they don't feel like they're trying to find a husband or dad who you're a baby daddy trying to just have fun with dating so that biological clock in deftly ticking and we feel it.
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I've heard i've heard it's weird because in one week i heard three women like turning into thirty saying that. They're craving baby. No i today and maybe baby this craving having babies as anyone else heard that of other people like cravings to like have a baby. Yeah i've heard girlfriends say that definitely. How'd you get that crazy. That's my question like how do all of a sudden you're like. I think i'm gonna be a mob but john back your story Something about you being aware her age probably made some of her actions were amplifies and the irony of his is like. So here's what here's what ironic about immigration route twenty s that. I would've thought something like oh. My god is like dramatic or she's going to be high maintenance like you look. At how much time elapsed in a relationship or like. You're when you started dating hummers. Josh like starts cropping up and that sort of like a leading indicator how much drama their relationships actually going to be I my limited several years. Experience of san francisco dating is It's been easier to have sex with in this city more than any other city very easy and it's also been harder to develop a emotional intimacy. What someone yeah. The most successful relationships that i've had in the city of come from people who live here or just pure. Yeah we talk about importing them. That'd be great. that is the next. Dating service is importing mine. My we can go for about a year that i that i quote unquote imported from from my home state I didn't know and she was there. But but she knew me to those and stuff that written And found me here and we started dating but it was like i was her. I m just so. I'm struggling with this because the whole idea of having casual sex is so easy taste go. I think that's across the board in any big city where you have a high concentration of your people. It's like going to summer camp. Everyone should be fucking all the time. Now tagline that's the summer. Trams tagline is fun a camp by and we're fucking all thing is like okay so people have to get over that initial That initial pleasure from getting really casual sex and then they start wanting something more. Because they're nearing another life stage they're approaching life. Stage of being let wanted me wash stable on serious. So i think that the issue we're facing in san francisco which may be unique to san francisco and getting over that hump going from casual to something more substantial what we just don't have sex for the first several months we go back go on our time machine where maybe even have sex right away and we wait a little bit and actually you know court each other. You'd watch relationships. You can watch relationships increase really quickly like the way that works is girls. Say oh we can't have sex until like we have a commitment and all of a sudden guys lesson writer like trying to commit you. we really like having sex. I mean you you. I mean that's part of the reason that you know you like traditional society religion to always plays sex marriage too because it stabilizes everybody you pair bonded to one person and then you start a family and like you're dude and you have a wife like other men can attest it like guys. We start getting serious with a woman at changes being like the shape of our lives. We spend our money differently. Anything but work differently like all of a sudden. We're not just thinking about us and beard. Video game cornyn. Whatever like we're thinking about Caring for other people and it shifts are focused in life. That doesn't happen in san francisco because nobody actually figures. They're going to stay here very pans and drums. The half year. I think is a his causing a lot of ways because it's the city of training you're like hoping to strike it rich open for your or to open writings and then go back somewhere else. But because nobody's necessarily committed to san francisco when the back of their mind then you're gonna get raised and they may not be able to afford to live here anymore because of all that nobody has really really like Deep roots in san francisco and so we have debris to each other either until absent. Those like the action will take what we get which is casual sex with people we like. We like having in our lives. But we don't take that personally they disappear on us but this is a world wide issue. Which is the cities like san new york.
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La tracks transient and also attract a certain caliber of people who go and try to pursue their dreams. So that's why we were attraction anything he's because we're finding like minded people like we're fucking ourselves we are. Maybe that's the future we talk ourselves at that. You just want to see you saw some virtual reality so i think that's not too far away. Oh no people are definitely fucking south. Were fucking machines. That's doing now wasn't but let's not put we in there I'm not ready for that commitment. I'm not ready for that. Go back to. Michael wanna go back to your proposition of day. What have we just spent a few weeks or a few months courting each other and then we have sex so was personally happened to me and a few friends of mine where we tried that. We held off on that. We really wanted to get to know the guy you want to go by decide to have sex and the sex terrible. And that's when you go. Yeah this is not gonna work out. You and i can tell that you somebody though like haven't you know between a good good kisser and good sex now now there's not at there should be a correlation but it's not always apparent portland chime in here. I agree with you. A definitely not from female muffin. Interesting base julie. i do think I like i've definitely had hit or myth look good kissing but what i will say is If our bodies kind of like each other. So i know that sounds kind of weird but Like if i find. If i have a partner that i danced with a lot and we dance really well together. That is generally correlated to give back so. It's not just like the kissing. If you are like okay we have our you know we get into each other mentally right. And i think we can understand that physically without sex and i think dance is one of the ways that you can just. I'm not sure. What other ways but I think that's a good indicator of good sex with person or not my last food for thought for everyone. Because i'm thinking about that as we go along. Are we placing too much emphasis on sex. Because if you look at all as of courtship stacked would never and it's kind of the cherry on top of nice to have but nowadays you open up any magazine. Were get a quote from any relationship. Counselor the always say sex. Life is the most important part of your relationship and your sex lives are failing. Your relationship work. we'll start. Failing is this propaganda navy to open up. A whole market. For like sexual activity is sex being commercialized. So point where it actually harming. I think i think in many ways it is and i also do think because it's giving a slice of the pie these little right. There's so many more elements that are associated with having a wonderful relationship and i think sex is important. I don't think the most important by any means. And i think that we can also find ways of having better sexual partner if we open up communication more because the the thing is we believe with good is a lot of communication You know verbal communication also body language and all that stuff. But i think if we weren't to communicate with each other better. I think our sex can get better. I would you a lot about communication. I would add onto that. I would say that I've noticed that sex live usually court. Sex is is not the caused all the time or usually have like feeling connected feeling the intimacy. 'cause that's a lot of what comes from section the connection and the you know you're joining one another in those moments that like when somebody's off sexually that usually an indicator something else is wrong the relationship And that's like the thing is like okay. We're not connecting physically. There's something emotionally that were disjointed on. And we need to communicate for a minute. We need to figure out. What did i do something that hurt your feelings. Are you upset at work How have been paying enough attention to you. What are we missing here and you find those out and in the process like the bad sexual. The no sexes like his trigger that hey something duck and then it's also the care that he goes fix. It can get late again. All right so i i'm gonna i'm gonna ask you. Do we have any takeaways from takeaways. From this conversation my takeaway is one is life match and so important so we should have throw age out the door but we were on the first day and we're trying to figure out because we're naturally each other i think discussing lifestyle is more important Take away is.
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This is what i'm learning. John sachs is a product of communication. So of your communication off of your connections off than sex is probably can be off so sexy the good indicator of how you're communicating with each other. I think it's really important to really listen and give ourselves space to listen for a period of time before we have that we've of intimacy of sex I think it's it's good to get to know each other who also learn each other of bob mentally emotionally physically without having sex and i think personally that helps kind of dive into relationship So now the time for question of the day and we have a question from listener. Paul boon so all boone rights. What is the most effective way of starting to date. Someone and i think this is an awesome question. Because there's so many ways out there. Right person. Matchmakers going online meeting person friends coworkers. All that stuff so You eight would you like to do. You have any thoughts on that in my case personally reaching increasing frequency of seeing someone. So it's much harder for me to have attraction with someone that i need for the first time with someone that i see all the time. Might that be a co worker or Someone i go hiking with a high club or group just facetime consistency and for me. I will actually have to agree on that one. I love the idea of going out and meeting people face to face getting to know people and then starting to To start oh okay. I'm connecting with this person. Let me talk to them more. Oh where can i think more. Let's talk even further. I think it just depends on your personal style. How attraction built for you. So i guess the real answer to that question is find what works for you. Try many different ways of dating talkable expanding your network which is our sponsor five hundred brunches the perfect tie-in but you never know we need or even there. I'm so very good point. The more people you know the higher your chances of being boom so people go meet people so that you can get more people. Let's wrap this up if you're listening. Don't forget you can submit your stories and you can keep unanimous change. Your name changed the names of the people involved in your story and last but not least michael dateable dateable. Podcast is recorded in san francisco. We like to thank our sponsor five hundred branches for making this happen to connect with us visit date. Able podcast dot com.