Ketan gets deep about a heartbreak that ends with his girlfriend packing her bags on their trip to Italy. We talk about complexities in relationships such as fixating on the future, missing red flags, and effective communication.
S2E2 Lost in Translation
00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show this episode of dateable as brought to you by scoot. You can explore san francisco on electric scooters and have the best. I state of your life dateable listeners. Get a special deal. Sign up for ten dollars and get three hours of scooting sign up at scoot dot co forward slash date able where usa code hot date. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. Show that opens up a candid. Conversation about dating in san francisco and that voice. That sounds tired but is still fighting. Strong is my wonderful beautiful co you a nice young refreshed. Not tired voice. Comes from michael vargas. So on each episode we dissect a dating story today. I was told that we have sort of a deeper dating story. We haven't really done deep stories yet. Right michael not yet. But we're about to jump in eight feet deep. Oh all right. We have cayton on the line getting you there. Are you guys doing. we're good. What is your story so last year. I was on okay. Cupid as sometimes i do met meta girl and everything was great. In the beginning we went on our first date and it was like magic from day. One you know where everything's hit off. She wanted the same things. I wanted the same thing. We're both Each other She was mature. I mean on their first date I went down to south bay to see as sorry show and she pulled up in a tesla who i am. A big fan of tests are already like her. That's hot i was i was like wow okay. This is this is this is real. We had sparks from beginning. Are the fastest ever kissed someone. We met in forty five minutes later. We had our first gifts. Wow we were drunk or anything it was just you know connection was there so we started the date and things were great. And then i started noticing We were at a party one time and you know i think i'll go on. How how long were you guys seeing each other before this party. I think it'd been a month a month. So i think in in social circles in general drinking is obviously a part of the conversation. Right you go out go to happy hour you go out on a date you go drink and i am been known to enjoy so the real story. Stars is I have. I have a daughter and my birthday. I decided this is two months in now. And we we'd had this greatly ship. Everything was going good. May i know a couple things with these red flags. And i just. I think when you're excited about someone you like brushing over for whatever reason right meets my daughter and no one's bet my daughter in five years. I'm very protective. You know it's important to me right that you absolutely only at the right time. I don't want people come out of her. Life had his birthday party. It was a madman picnic at fort mason. Everyone was dressed up. I was having a good time. We're all having a good time. Any obviously again is my birthday. So i'm drinking Towards the end of the evening. I've realized she's gotten a little drunk on the way home. We're dropping off my daughter and she gets sick and throws in the car. I was such in shock. I was like oh my god. What is what is going on here. But i was just so i had never had this happen.
00:05:01 - 00:10:00
I've never gotten sick in front of my none of my friends ever. have you know. it's i know to handle it. I think i was just in shock so we come home after done off in i mistakenly now have learned my lesson. I try to argue with the drunk person. Don't do yeah. And i was like hey. That wasn't cool at all. That was wholly uncalled for immature. Like i didn't appreciate that at all. she got very upset and it was. It was actual day of my birthday as she said to me. You know this is not gonna work. You can't judge me. i'm breaking up with you okay. And i'd like wait a minute what what are you talking about. This is ridiculous like you're not breaking up with me on my birthday first of all. We're both drunk. So let's not make any at ac decisions. The sleep on it will figure it out the next day. Whatever happened i against do believe probably foolishly in hindsight let it go because everything else matched up so well. We had future that we talked about. You know she wanted kids. I wanna kids. She was ambitious. I was in vicious no everything lined up so well i was just thought it was. Maybe it was a one time thing right so then i'm going to this wedding in italy. Friends are getting married And because it was a long vacation two weeks we were going to this romantic place. I invited her. i said. do you wanna go first. She was like i don't know is pretty early. I said you're right. It is pretty early. But i'm also going to like sweden in italy and greece again. That sounds pretty awesome. So she came so it started off. Great everything is what relationship. Are you guys now at war. We're three months. Wow that is pretty early. So noticing a pattern every month. Something interesting happens exactly. I wasn't nosing the pattern. Because i think i was head over heels in love. You know at this point. We said we loved each other. You know i've bashful about it. I was thinking personally might have a future with right so go to this wedding in italy and it is the thing that i think. People dream about where in the amalfi coast in town. That's looking over the water. We're at this hotel that got rated number one hotel in by travel leisure last year. I mean it is. The reception is like overlooking the ocean. And we get to it. And i know there's a defecting cool infinity pool with my you know forty. Sf friends. they're my friends already. We don't have time and obviously it's a wedding. People are gonna party. We're literally living the dream right. We're in italy. having. What i'm thinking is the nightmare life right. This is fantastic. What could be more romantic than taking a leap to a wedding. Like that's right and at some point she says to me. Hey you wanna get in. I turn around and take my shoes off where it turned back. She's fallen in the pool with all like wedding gear on. Was she wasted at that. Time started to say that most people were pretty drunk at this point. Not i'm pretty sure even like the freese was drunk. Don't no. I'm just saying like you know it was. It was a late night. Holy wine of course right. of course. of course we were on the roof of a hotel in at pool in amount. Because i mean like in life was just fantastic for a moment right close i jump in the water and because quickly we will be we both realize even though she can swim because she's wearing a wedding type gown is dragging down all the guys who are like why not. We'll jump into all my grows. Take off their clothes. Jump in the water. We're all having a good time. But my data. This is kind of thinking that she can't swim. Even though i'm at the avenue. Older up and i said look you've got to get out of the water. This is not going to work and we're walking back to our hotel. Where like dripping wet. You know weddings over. It's playtime is over. You know we get back to the room and say against foolishly. Tried to argue with a drunk person said. Hey that's not really that cool like you know. My friends are awesome. That like it's a wedding. It's not the kind of thing that we should be doing. They'll understand they'll get it but like everyone was worried again. She gets really upset and starts blaming things are mean. I'm very confused by this point. Because look i've davis i've made my share of mistakes. I've done some stupid things. You know But really didn't do anything wrong here but again begin this argument where she goes. You know what breaking up with you. I'm leaving big. It's like wait a minute slowing on this. You're telling me we're in italy. Were at this wedding where this beautiful place. You'll get drunk and fall in the pool and you're breaking up with me like i'm very confused. I i didn't quite get it eventually like we.
00:10:00 - 00:15:16
Have you know one of those long drunk arguments in. We both go to that angry which is not fun. Wake up in the morning and we try to resolve it and next as her birthday. We're flying to greece. And i didn't want to break up in your like. Those kinds of statements are not really fair. But at this point i didn't know what to do. I was a i was lost. Obviously we get the grease and We have this night. It's her birthday perfect. Were at the acropolis i invite. She wasn't some sort of her friends that were to be traveling there. Some of my friends. We have this beautiful birthday dinner and Again there's making involved in. Which i think was probably be more. Play the story but some some guy at this restaurant. It's unger that goes. She's in the bathroom and he tries to kiss her and so when we are on the cab home she and she's very visibly upset at mike. Aides everything okay. She goes that guy tournament Oh my god i'm so. Sorry that's ridiculous yulia sage no-no no which is very upset. I'm like will you know these are the kind of friends you hang out with with. Eventually we get the argument and she says i'm breaking up with you at that point after hearing your three times. I said you know what you should go. Because you're not happy here. And i'm not happy now in this is how you want to have conversations having ultimatums clearly. We don't have a future as a couple so we we went to bed. I went to bed the next day we were supposed to fly santini book. Dessus romantic Clifftop room with a hot tub in the room at san sereni yard and i wake up like five thirty inches. I bought the tickets on. Oh you bought sheds she said yeah like well that's crazy And i'm like barely have my clothes on barely half awake and she leaves in. I gotta be honest. I was heartbroken. I'd i even though. I knew it wasn't my fault. Necessarily at the guide messed up. Because you know. I think finding a partner is obviously very hard to do financing. We have connection with is really hard to do any time you lose someone i was like i was in the days i cancelled my flight to san sereni. Luckily another bb ashes said him. I go with me and they refunding the money which is super nice to them. You just you just gave a little airbnb nice. Yeah yeah no. I didn't expect that at all. But i felt like i really messed up. You know where do you think you mess up. So in hindsight. I think the real thing is is. How do you when you're attracting someone field. Is there what do you do when you see red flags. They think it happens a lot. That when you're attracted to someone you rationalize everything and while no one's accusing england will be an alcoholic. I don't think it's that far. I think drinking especially not that. I think anything's wrong with you. I i still enjoy drinking. I still think it's one of those things. Socially to social accept a drug it does have consequences relations whether it's drinking or what your minds alternate you start doing things. You normally wouldn't say or do. Did you talk to her at all. While you're sober about the things that were bothering you. In hindsight i want to say i think i tried to. I think the honest answer is i was scared to. I probably knew i would lose her. We actually had the conversation. From what i'm hearing and i may be way off but it sounds like she was looking for a way out as opposed to looking away to stay together. Yeah okay no. I think you're totally right. How does it feel to here and like give me like sabotaging i mean. Maybe just looking looking for ways out of the relationship as opposed to looking to really work to make sure it stays together. I think you have these conversations In for me when you have a conversation about fifty to ascended like hey where do you wanna live. How many kids do you wanna. Have you know what kind of love you expect to have like. You know how to use about family to have those conversations with people. I start feeling like oh. This is a real thing. This is not like a. We're just dating. I think while you might be right. I it sounds like you right in this. She was sabotaging trying to get out. I was rationalizing. It like honestly. I don't think she was trying to get out at all. I actually think that you guys were trying to force something. That wasn't there yet. And i think when you don't have a strong foundation yet you have these ideas of what the future look like you kind of refocus on something. That didn't really matter yet. But i totally agree with you. That when you're when you feel this connection with someone when you see a future with them when you're so attracted to them even these these these issues that don't sit well you're able to just kind of brush them off and say you know this is a one time deal or this is something i can tolerate.
00:15:16 - 00:20:06
This is something. I can accept like connections like these. Don't come around that often. It's so rare so when you have one you're like no no no no. This is the right person for me. I mean i haven't felt this way and so long that one little thing. This is a little thing. It's not a red flag at all. I mean i do think love is a drug all these. It's a hell of a drug. It's a great drought. But it's i think it's one of those things like you get into it and like you said you ignore the things you're feeling this high right in. It's it's i. Don't wanna blame anyone person for that. Because i think i have my own choices in sacred a walked our that conversation at a time. That was appropriate. I do think there's something in in the genders. Where a lot of times. You hear a girl saying that guy was a jerk us national in confronting about it and like i think when you're guy wanna find a balance between how to bring up something with a woman. Have it still be respected. You know. there's a tricky to do or maybe. I just don't know the right way to do it yet. Are we talking about having a hard conversation in a real way. I get it because i think i'm trying to put myself in her shoes. And i'm thinking maybe the way you approached your confrontation with her may have come off condescending. If i were in that situation. I probably would thought okay. I'm never going to live up to this person that he wants me to be so i might as well just remove myself from the situation now. He obviously wants me to be someone that. I'm not so you think there was a lot of high expectations i think high speculations but i bet some the ways that you mentioned that you said you know come confronted her was like you know. Maybe that wasn't so cool or maybe you shouldn't have done that in. That could translate to someone who is intoxicated who is also in love to be like. Oh my gosh. He's he's just belittling you right now telling me that this is not someone that he wants to be with. So i might as well to some leave. Because i'm never going to be that person. I would also say that you know there's a. There's a certain way that we have to approach people and deliver our thoughts. And i've had to learn through the hard way we've all had to learn how to communicate these things. One of the ways is what you did actually hurt me or scared me versus you know what you did was not so cool or like you know. My friends would have thought that was so cool. It's more like how you made me feel why that directly affects me. Should matter to you know. She brought up in term called love language. Where it's like a lot like it's like. How do you argue in a productive way with someone. What you're saying is with. Will you get up off your chest. You're not judging right the clear upset and you say it. I think that's a skill that's obviously don't have yet. I'd love to drill better at. But like and i think that's a skill that a lot of people have a hard time with and going back to what you said it's your first start off with ice statements right. That's the beginning of it. I this i that because it brings it to me right so going from you which puts it on the other person rings on me and then you gotta be a little vulnerable. Which is hard for people. I mean i've gone through where i was like. No i'm fine. It does matter. But i feel disappointed. I feel hurt. I feel i feel angry. I feel upset. I feel frustrated. I feel i feel ignored. I want to know how did this end did did this. Relationship does end there. I mean she. She went back to the states tonight. A few days left before march light which is probably most depressing days ever. I was like a loss upi. But you know what you're interested part of the came back to the states. And a week later i get in a bike accident in. Break my arm and my wrist. Oh and i gotta say is probably actually what saved me. They'll be. I think after brigham like this might typical usage. We've been to go out and party and get drunk and do stupid things of because i was injured. I forced me to slow down. And i spent the next few months really kind of asking myself like what went wrong here and we talked a little bit and then i said you really can't have this in my life and i think two months later. She's not married. Wow i think your point about how she wanted at the very true because i think kiting Later but i think i was a rebound a which i've never been a rebound.
00:20:06 - 00:25:02
Well you never think you're the rebound. Nobody ever thinks the rebound when someone who had this conversation with you. But the future like yeah. This is real right. This thing of read about called future fakers and it's it's concept of like we'll talk this big game about relationship and where they want to go and while they might realistically want that their ability to make that happen might not be matching up. And i feel like that they'd is what kind of what happened. Where am i future. Pick myself i could. I might have said yes. This is the right person for me in the future when really i didn't take a look at the president said. Wait a minute. what's going on here. And you know what man. I gotta give you extreme credit because you did something that a lot of guys don't do and i've been i've had that mistake in the past. Where after after break for someone really hurt too You took the time to heal. You took the time to actually. What a lot of people do is after they after they had something. That's so painful. They want to throw themselves into something. They want to get distracted so that they don't feel it in the president. What you did was the lie yourself. feel it. i remember I dated this girl for two and a half years and she ended up breaking up with me and it was It was the first person that ever broke my heart. That was my first heartbreak. And the what i did was i started dating a stripper right afterwards. And don't you. Don't i mean she was a very kind lovely person by the way but don't do it right and it took a long time to heal because of that canaan saying that he was forced to do it because he got an accident. But i think perfect timing. Yes perfect honey. Ozzy it sought to get in by accident. It sucks to be injured. But honestly like i know my patterns. I know had that breakup. Yeah i will Surly but like. Hey i've made. I've made some terrible choices after a break up we all do. We all wanna find a way to heal. It'd be enough smart way. But you know i do think as you get older because i'm older now not in my twenties anymore. Obviously like i don't know there's solutions out there. This is how you argue with someone or were when you're so early with someone i'd even broach the topic like. Hey if we do get an argument. This is how we should receive. I think yeah. I think that's a great idea to set guidelines and i don't think a lot of people do that where they say. Listen there might be times when we're talking. And i might need to just step away for like ten minutes right. I or listen you know. Maybe we could talk about a for an hour and then on or make sure we don't go to bed angry like you said like that sucks going to bed angry right so i think i think it's hard to set those guidelines from the beginning but once you do start talking a little bit more you can set that a lot earlier than what other people think and it shows that at least i believe it shows that you're showing appreciation for having a conversation to work on the relationship so setting guidelines and boundaries from the beginning i think is something that's really helpful and it sets the tone for the rest of the relationship. I find it interesting that you're bringing this up because you know you're a father your your father to teenage daughter you're a grown ass man yet. You don't know how to communicate. I mean this is. This is a fundamental problem in society. Today where we don't learn communication skills ever. It's not part of our coursework. it's not part of society and the were were thrown into these relationships where we fall in love. Sure it's easy to fall in love we can. We know what it's like to fall in love but then we don't know how to communicate with with that person we love so that this is the problem we get ourselves into these funky situations. And we're like how do i. How like there's no guidebook. You can't take a course on communication with your loved one accent. But they don't have like relationship. Ed they don't and that's what's lacking that's what we need to do. I mean that's my start. Something like in the middle schools serving there were just reactive. We're not proactive. So we react to these situations and then it becomes me versus you versus us as a team i think myself as terrible communicator. I do think something happens when you have the love. Hormone in your body chemical and isn't that cost mark you think you are. We've all seen smart friends. You love and make careful decisions. I'm all night. That's why we're able to do this. Podcast i think the hardest thing like what are the things that i'm working on now. Discernment need someone being able to discern his right. What is wrong early on nuff. Will you can cut it if you need to at least discuss it.
00:25:02 - 00:30:09
It's unique absolutely. I'll be honest as as a guy you know. Generally we do the chasing in we are the ones that have to come out that ourselves in the way unless there's always like this but like wherever i was brought up but you know my my notion is that to do stuff to make someone like. I think that that ringing. A compensation has fear. I'm as being the honest carrier like it appears by tell you something that you're going to want to leave really cause women have the same fear while glad that you too i think for guys is like we we. We have to somehow sell sometimes sang in a bad way. Like i think it's good to be on your best behavior and like really. Put yourself out there. But i have no problem doing that. I do think there's this notion of like you know. Everyone has their like dealbreaker. Listen you do something wrong. People snap you out rights and looked at the unfortunate part of mine dating. Like i think one of the theories that i personally can say. I want to work on his like heidel. I tell someone. I care about that. What they're doing is no k. Without the be movies. But i have to say this and this is my last thought on this whole scenario if two people in a relationship what commitment means to them then these conversations would be a lot easier to have because if both people are committed the both people want to work on these things you know and it. It doesn't even if you're if sounds like you're attacking me. If i already gave my commitment to this relationship than i would tell you that i feel attacked and i want to have a conversation talk about how that makes me feel in how that makes you feel and then it becomes a conversation not so much like oh. I feel attacked. I'm gonna leave. So i still think that was really lacking from the beginning with this verbal communication of what commitment means to both of you. Say okay okay. Question of the day. This one comes from david. Who says how many drinks should you have on a date. Yes i one. You should never have more drinks in the other person. And i to is probably the max to to max okay and the reason is for a couple of things one. You want to get to know them not. It's not drunk. Them is two different people. And and to dixon effort really expensive. You can't be shoveling down her bucks. I'm not. It's not sustainable. If defensive fairly expensive but but also in three i think what are you gonna hide behind when if you're gonna be drinking that much like you're not going to be yourself even a so. I have this question. I recently had this dilemma. I just recently came back. Went on the state that was like eight hours and we were having a really good time and the whole time. I was like trying to fight back not drinking. Because i was on all these like cold medication. Like i probably shouldn't be drinking with cold medication. But then i was like i really want to keep talking to him. It's cold outside. I'm not going to be walking at night. So the only place we can go to is a bar and sit there and talk or go to his plays remind plays which. I'm not going to do a first date so when you're sitting on a bar it's really awkward to sit there and not drink. What do you do become a huge fan of ginger beer. I agree with you that our society creates awkwardness. Were being at a bar. Not drinking people like warren to drinking. What's up bro. i just do it. I say two things i say. Got to work out in the morning. I used to always say that Immediately somehow except that which usually that she is true in the morning the to just having a ginger beer. I think kind of less people off the hook. You know why you can employ notion drinking sharing food together as a great thing sharing something together like that brings you closer but you can just order something. That's not alcoholic me. I have a. I think like our guests. I guess an well. The guest is gonna learn in our listeners. Know from me is. I'd say zero i for me. Yeah absolutely. I want to be president as i can be so i can be there completely with the person and i rather do the harder work now than later. If 'cause it you know people like to call it liquid courage and that's cool. But i rather work harder now at the beginning so that i continually find the connection with the person and then it's so much easier from that point and that and i rather experience a person as they are and learn about that earlier than later.
00:30:10 - 00:33:02
Yeah makes sense. Let me ask This damn right you can. Do you think that being sober that you are able to go into that first kiss silver. I kiss sober. I kiss sober. I kiss so. I mean i probably only had one or two. Well maybe a couple of out of the many first kisses is like ninety. Five percent of them have been sober. And i'm telling you it's just i can see it in. The woman's is when she's ready for that moment because i'm connected to her at least that's how i feel. I feel that. I can see it when she's ready for it and i could just go on and it's great and i've had the weirdest for i remember what am i i i i kiss that i had was. We were walking golden gate park and we're walking along dislike river extreme thing. I don't know there's a waterfalls there and there's like these rocks so we're walking across the rocks and she. She missed that and fell into the grossest most disgusting ward of the whole waterfall thing. And is it would she just dunk. I pull i pull her out. She's dripping wet. She's all nervous. Were laughing and i literally just pull her out and she looks at me. And i look at her and i knew it and we had our first guest right there and then i told her that she smelled really bad but that was a great first. Kit that's bad skilled at matt skills. So the trick is push them into the waterfall right and get then. Get ginger beer. Yeah got it all right. We're going to wrap this up. Thank you so much kaitlyn for sharing your story. That was awesome a great story to and listeners. At home though forget to submit your stories and remember we can always keep unanimous. We can change your name change. Your voice changed the names of people in your story. We want to protect your identity and last but not least stay dateable looking for a great sober date idea try. Scoot get some perspective by writing up to twin peaks or burner heights for great view and the wind in your hair joint scoot with a significant other and explore the city. Sharing new experiences together is a great way to grow your relationship. Skewed offers electric mopeds and mini cars. So you can each have your own or share scoop quad dateable listeners. Get a special deal ten dollars for three hours of scooting sign up at scoot dot co four slash date able or usa code hot date to connect with us visit date apple. Podcast dot com.