Elle, the founder of Mend ( https://www.letsmend.com/ ) , talks to us about the most painful part of relationships: heartbreak. She knows all about this topic as the founder of Mend. We talk about it all from timing in relationships, the healing process, and how to come out stronger.
S2E8 Hey Heartbreak
00:00:00 - 00:05:01
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. This episode of dateable is brought to you by onesie date and that planning company dedicated to bringing cool people together. And you're just unlock. Their next event will be june. Eighteenth with dateable podcast as a special guest. We will be recreating the dating game. Live on stage. Get your tickets today. By searching the words onesie party on that bright onesie spelled o n e s e. Everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. A- show that opens up a candid conversation about dating in san francisco and cheering jolly voice. You just heard is my co-host beautiful you a. I'm so glad you said that. Because i was talking to someone on the phone. And they're like you sound like death. So i was like to sound a little nicer Today but you always have a cheerful voice. Michael and i just think listeners at home should know that michael julian. I are really good friends that we call each other on a weekly basis is actually michael calling us and every time michael. What do you want to talk about. It's you know like what. Can i help you. It we're download y'all that's why on each episode we dissect a dating story. Today's episode is going to be a little different. Because we're we have a special guest for you. And you might have heard her giggle. A little bit We have ellen wear da. Who's the ceo and founder of men. An app that helps you through a break-up and evolved out of the site let's men dot com. Which started after. She went through a break up. High allan hi happy can be here. We're so happy to have you know heartbreaks one of those topics that always gets brought up and nobody ever knows what to do about it to marinate in the misery of breakup. But nobody ever knows what they should do. So i wanna. I know about what was this break up. That you went through. The break of that i went through was a few years ago now but I was actually living in san francisco. I'm in la on. And i was pretty new to san francisco. And i went through was off again off again on again relationship which i'm sure you guys have had A lotta times. They feel like those breakups are really really difficult. So i was going through a break up and just having a hard time And it was actually one night. When i was up late at night just flying through my phone and he was like three. Am in the morning. And i was on google on my phone. Searching for break-up advice. I wish that i had kept my search history from that night because it was probably pretty embarrassing. But i wish. Searching for break-up helping just didn't feel like a lot of the content online resonated with me a lot of it was really cliche And so. I had the idea that i would build a break-up site and everything that i've been working on now i mean that was years ago has evolved out of that site so for me. I feel like the breakup was a pivotal moment on. I feel like actually for a lot of people. Breakup are merely pivotal moments in their lives. I think that you know with breakup. There are two ways you can come out of at one way as you can dwell in it and the second way is you can learn from it but it's really hard to come out of that dwelling period. Every cup deserves a little bit of grieving process. But then how do you get yourself out of it and this. I know this is something very relevant to our producer. Julie who's right beside me. She's miked up for this episode because she has she has recently gone through something in that realm. And i think it'd be good for her to talk about her experience so julie do on take it away. Yeah no it's been fun being a guest on the show. My first time usually behind the scenes. But i was excited to have ellen here because like as you mentioned i went through a break up.
00:05:01 - 00:10:06
That's probably been one of the more difficult breakup. I've experienced so i think one of the biggest parts. Obviously like you missed the person once you break up. But there's this getting over the future. You had together in a way a justice. Challenging part of a break-up absolutely one of the hardest parts about heartbreak is just unraveling from the person. Know so much of your identity and your sense of self really gets intertwined and even in healthy relationships you know. It's only natural that you depend on each other for things and that's one of the really beautiful things about our relationship but then when you come out of it all of a sudden you're asking yourself like who am i without this person and what will my life be like and what will make future be like I think that that can be pretty scary. But personally i think it's also one of the most exciting parts all going through a up because you really have a chance to resign yourself. It's like a beautiful time for a rediscovery of of who you are right right and especially like i mentioned. My situation was only year. I can't even imagine like five six seven plus years like thinking that you have a full life with someone and then one day just being done so why is find ships in that dynamic is so fascinating you go from perfect strangers to closer than family than two perfect strangers again. And and there's research to show that a break-up as equivalent to death right it's an equivalent to that loss. So what is step number one to dealing with a break-up one thing that doesn't get talked about a lot so there's definitely the emotional aspect of a break up and that is a very real thing. And that's it's really hard to deal with the break-up in that way But one thing. That doesn't get talked about a lot but that you experience in the beginning is just how physical break-up can be. You know there are all sorts of changes that are happening in your body. I mean i. I won't get like two bill nye about it. But there are real neuro chemical connections that you have with someone and they've actually looked at people who have gone through a break up and they have the same profile someone who's going through withdrawal from drug addiction. So when i think about like the first step of getting through a break up i kind of think of it as it's almost like triage like you really have to treat yourself like you're sick and actually in an ideal world. I think we would all get heartbreak days like we get sick days but i do think you really have to take care of yourself in the most basic way like. Make sure that you're eating a lot of people stop eating and make sure that you're sleeping And just being around people and not disconnecting yourself from other other people you know your family and your friends And then i think one of the biggest things that we sort of all know this but It really is so important just given all the physical changes that happened after break up is just being active and actually finding something that you can do every day that releases endorphins. Even if it's just dancing around in your in your room to robin hundred and ten percent agree with that. Because i'd say i really just threw myself into exercise and started working out like two times a day and i've read like for other other places that that's like one of the best things you can do. 'cause obviously there's endorphins exercise and then also like you look a lot better when you run into your acts than if you've been sitting eating ben and jerry's philosophy the right. There is research to prove that. After a break-up most men hit the gym and most women hit ice cream. A stereo it is. It's syria typical but there is research to back it up. Women just they find comfort in food and then find comfort and treadmills and having lots of sex with different women. I mean. don't worry. My typical response has always been ice cream. This was a i really think. Some people who've been single for awhile look hotter than they used to because they're like all i've been focusing on improving out of like the relationship which is already doubts. You're at a deficit at that is getting back to normal. Basically one of the things we talked about endorphins guys and ladies is to make sure that we don't start getting it through like alcohol and cocaine is so many people here endorphins and they think oh drugs that helps and then it just kind of replacing one like you said earlier. It's like an addiction so you're placing one addiction for another. We have an interesting relationship with sadness. I feel like now. People are more comfortable saying that. They're sad and letting themselves be sad. And a lot of times people will say like feel. The pain feel sad. It's okay but it is really true. Sadness is an emotion that is designed to really slow you down and like when you're grieving it gives you a chance to sort of reflect on like what that loss meant to you right and And then also think about what your life will look like without whatever it is that you lost and that is a real thing.
00:10:06 - 00:15:03
It's backed up research. It's important to recognize what the body needs at points like that like. They've been taught their entire lives to not cry right. I wish i could cry more. Like i wish says how engines will so much better because it is what the body needs to do. Your body does need to feel sad. It does need to cry because it's part of the process and so many people try to stay away from that because it hurts but it's really powerful or helpfully really interesting thing about sadness is that It's a way to signal to the people around you that you need extra support and there's this really great book called the other side of sadness by george banana really recommend it's actually about grief when you lose someone but it's relevant for a break up to or a divorce and he talks about it that it is important to signal to the people you like your friends and your family the immediate extra support because you actually do like you need to replace that connection that you're missing from your partner. I feel like for me. I will be that person that like dwells for a long time and i have other friends that just like immediately jump into the next relationship or like kinda come off. That they're totally fine. What is your thoughts. Because i feel like there's gotta be something probably in the middle that's healthier. I do think so. I think it really depends. The one thing i'll say is that i think it's it's really important to have some alone time because you have to redefine your sense of self like that. Get so muddy. When you're in a relationship in you just need to make sure that you know who you are and what you want to be in another relationship But my advice on timing is that i think actually like everyone is best equipped to answer that for themselves and so what i recommend to people is try going on a date. I say that because you will go on the date and you will know right away. If it's too soon like you will get a gut feeling like this is not right. This doesn't feel good and there's a difference between that and just feeling like this is slightly uncomfortable or scary which is expected right after a break up. I think i mentioned this before. But i my very first real heartbreak. This girl that broke my heart One of the first things. I did was Diving to relationship. That i knew wasn't really gonna work our senior stripper right afterwards for like six months. And it just prolong the pain. And i and i kind of knew distraction and i just threw myself into another person and you're right alien. I felt that like this. This doesn't feel right but it's better than the pain which wasn't true but it was just emotion i had Any just delayed the pain. And yes i had to deal with it later on. I feel really bad for that person again and again i feel like i've been in the position where i've helped people transition from heartbreak to normal hood. I was victim. So i feel like if you are going through a breakup and you are on whim or tinder bumble. You should put on your profile recently relationship going through heartbreak disclaimer. Noshir of ready for anything yet yet. Tons of people are going to be to date you. I think you're right. I think that you know. I think you you eventually do have to be a friend about where you are. And you have to be honest. But and this isn't based on data or anything but this is just based on being like so steeped in heartbreak in talking to so many people were going through breakup. I actually think the majority of people that are dating and on dating apps are in some state department And so i feel like it's just a matter of like really listening to your intuition about what feels right in what doesn't feel right and just like trying to be honest but you know there have been times where i've forced myself to dates because it was like months after a break up and i just needed to like take that step and try to move forward. What is your thoughts about. Keeping an axe near light like my accent. I broke up on civil terms. Like i do hope one day we can be friends and i'm honestly saying that But obviously recognize too that that really does prolong the getting over it process. It's really hard for us. Leak in this generation. I mean i think heartbreak is always has always been difficult. Because i was talking with my mom recently. And she was telling me about the break-up that she went through When she was twenty eight it was a really big break up and she said they broke up and they were actually next door neighbors but she never saw him like for nine month. Period obviously never heard anything about him. I mean they were neighbors. And so i feel like that was like the the benefit of going through breakup back then people who kind of broke up and then wrote off into the sunset and you didn't really have to hear about them or see their instagram.
00:15:03 - 00:20:11
I do think it is. It is so hard and my advice. Is i do think. Having buffer time is really crucial and buffer time means like unfollowing on social media or taking social media break and not talking for a period of time. And i say that not to say that you can never be friends with an axe. Never talk to them or have them in your life. But i don't think that you can be friends if you haven't taken the time to sort of recalibrate and reset your boundaries juicy. Facebook recently made a way to block your access but not remove them. Because that's always been a problem because you don't want to be that person friend all access like get so charles ish childish i do. I need any more friends no. I don't need them in my life to remind me of a failed relationship. That's just my own personal belief. But i do think that there needs to be some sort of cut off period where you go cold turkey. It's like getting yourself out of an addiction. You don't talk to them at all but we also know that if you keep them in your life they always come back the at the most inopportune times when you're getting into a relationship with someone and they like something on facebook and you're like or they tax you. I miss you so like why even put yourself at risk for something like that. I was like oh weird six cents with are we talking about like a real relationship or someone that we saw a little bit. Because i have me personally. I have accents that we were seeing each other for a little while. And we just keep coming in and out of each other's lives just like and it's always okay and i think because it depends on the relationships some xs. I don't ever want to see again others okay. I don't think it has to be a set type. It's more how did that person impact you like if it was. I know people that have been in really long term relationships like five plus years. But they've been so out of love by your three. By the time they broke up they were just kinda done so it wasn't even that difficult in that sense however i mean i've been in that situation to where i mean not my last version but once prior where we weren't even officially boyfriend and girlfriend yet it still stung so i think it really depends on the person and yeah i mean i think the litmus test is like how you feel when they come back Like whether it's like a taxed or you see that they've liked something that you posted like if it sends you into a fight or flight mode insertive you know derails everything that's going on in your life which happens like for a lot of people right with really serious relationships. Are you're trying to move forward an x. Coming back like that can really derail you I think that's when you need to have buffer time. Will i guess it's like if you saw them with another girl or guy. How would you feel if you don't care at all. That's when i on friend. Yeah that's a good witness problem. I'm going to ask this question with an answer already in mind with the consensus about having sex as a way to get over an axe because having sex gives you endorphins and it's active not break up sex with your ex and other pika sex with other people. I think the jury is really split on whether or not rebound sex is a good thing. The latest research is saying that rebound sex actually may be a good way for you to move forward because it sort of disconnects you sort of like cutting the umbilical cord on all right. And you know they're probably our differences between men and women. I'm sure that there are but it's not necessarily as bad as people used to think that it was which is great and i think it totally depends on your relationship with sex and you know how you deal with sex in your own life i've got to imagine to it also Another factor would be going into that particular sexy time right. How are you going. are you going into like. Oh my god this might be another relationship or is this okay. This is just a way to kind of move on and all that i say women just invest in a really good vibrator next men. Just really lotion. Her hands are all good go. We're switching gears a little here but the matter of time. I wanted to talk about your thoughts on timing in relationships. So i feel like a common perception is like when you break up. It's just because someone did something bad or like something happened but it doesn't always have to be that way. I think more times than not. It's actually not that way so to talk about timing. So i get a lot of questions about timing and there's a lot of content on our site about timing and i think one of the most common questions that i get is while so this person won't date me and they're saying that it's timing but if they really liked me just shouldn't timing not matter like shouldn't we just be together And not something.
00:20:11 - 00:25:06
I hear a lot and i. This is just me personally. I really think timing does matter. I think you know people are complicated in. Life is complicated. And everyone has a million factors going into whether or not a relationship works for them at a given moment so i do think that timing sometimes keeps relationships from working out but the caveat is that i think timing is usually code for something else So like a lot of times Timing is for like one person not being ready to commit or like timing can be code for one person being scared to get hurt in relationship or like oftentimes. I think this is maybe the most common one is just that timing is used as an excuse but it's really just that the person is prioritizing something else right over their love life so when people ask about timing. I think the question to ask is like what is it really going on underneath. That's preventing the person or both people from making the relationship work. Like what is it exactly because i mean time itself has actually impartial right like we can't blame time. I think what you said. One hundred percent spot. Ong's it's usually. There's something that that person needs to work through it. I know for myself. There were years that relationships weren't the first thing on my mind and it was work. It was friends and then there was just one day. The things shifted. And i don't know what that was me growing up. I don't know or just wanting that more in my life or different experiences. I do think people do prioritize different things at different points of their lives. And i think another part that Allen kinda hit on was to really look at your life and s- people just say timing and throw that as a nice excuse and they're not taking the time to really look at. Why is it the timing. Is it really the time or is there something else going on like. Do you feel drained as a human being. Do you feel like you're not worthy of someone because you're not where you're at in life so we are the timing as a way to kind of like a catchall. I and i think it's something to be very cognizant of i think timing is just. It's like the easy answer on. At first glance it is timing but if you dig a little bit deeper there's usually something else there is also used to just Softened the blow in the other person when they have no interest for sure yet. I think that's why there's a discrepancy right because there are times that people literally just use it as an excuse to soften the blow and then there are other times may legit really be there. I mean i think timing is more reflective on where you are in your stage in life. Some people are could meet someone amazing but they're just not ready to receive that person stage in their life. Something going on personally professionally. Whatever it may be so timing is something that you have to reflect on individually but in the interest of time i want to sort of wrap this up. L. and give us an overview of what men is all about. Because i know you can't give way too much. But how can it really help a plethora of people to get over heartbreak. Yeah so. I'm so excited to share. Men with everyone are apt is. It's the next evolution of our site and our site in. I developed after a break up. Because i felt like i couldn't find really good resources or support online And so the site developed really organically. I mean originally it was just like my stories and stories of my friends on and so storytelling was really like the dna of our site and the next evolution is much more interactive. So are up when i tell people about it. I say like think of it like a personal trainer. But it's for your love life and we're starting by helping people through breakup If people wanna learn more about it is their website that they can go to. Yes so you can visit. Let's mend dot com l. e. t. s. m. e. n. d. dot com and. You can download our app in the app store. And then i would recommend if you're interested in heartbreak breakup and just want to get more regular advice. We have a really great newsletter that we send out every week and you can subscribe on our website. It's sort of like a vitamin for your love. Life i agree. I subscribed and i can imagine you have firsthand testimonial last but not least. Let's just go around and give your best advice for something that has worked for you in coping with heartbreaks and breakup. Let's start with ellen. I think one of the most powerful things that you can do when you go through break-up is ritual is it some way and your life And i think that can look a little bit different for everyone Eight for me a lot of times.
00:25:06 - 00:29:45
I would take a trip. Some people will decide to run a marathon. That's you know kind of an aggressive way to ritualized break-up building some sort of break-up monument if you wanna call it that after break up is one really great way to sort of give yourself a goal to work towards and then also you can look back on it and say like this. This period of time is really difficult but it was also a time of growth and look at what came out of that and i think for like adele. She got an album. And i guess gwen stafani not to has multiple albums heartbreak but it can also be much smaller than that. I'd agree with ellen. Like i recently took a trip by myself but i've never traveled by myself and this wasn't a big trip but for me. It was a big step. I went to indian springs and calistoga just like floated in the hot springs all day and it was amazing and just reflected also. Don't drive so. I took an uber there and back which chris so aggressive but i like the mid week specials i save but yeah i mean i think like that and then i think also just like i've mentioned like when we talked about timing. I think like you can cause for me. I do feel like that was a big not talked about timing per se but i do think there was a lot of personal issues going on but i think it's you have to accept that it's over and if it's meant to be it will come back but you can't sit there and wait for it to come back because it's never gonna come back that way so i think like for me. It was really truly accepting that this is over and like i mentioned on again off again so that didn't help for awhile but who is that full acceptance obsolete. A couple of things. When i had them real quick. Why go get some just spend time with amazing people that you generally love like friends and family just just dive into it. Also on the other side of that is feel the pain. Don't try to run away from. Don't try to get rid of it. Just be honest with allow the sadness and the pain hit you on and one of the things that i did. That really helped Was after a couple of years after my heartbreak. I actually went back and talk to her about it. So they interview them got closure And that would that that shut the door. Shut the door and it was. It was a wonderful thing but it took time for something like that to happen. My my vice is free division board of what your ideal life would look like and really really think about the images and the words that you really want your ideal life to be like and focusing on this arts and crafts project will get your mind off of the heartbreak but also refocus your energy on something. That's more positive. I agree with you there. Remember for months. I put it off. Because i can't do this. It just feels so cheesy. And then i finally did it and it was like this is amazing ari guys. We're going to wrap this up. Thank you so much ellen for talking to us. Thank you for having me. This is really fun. Everybody has been heartbroken. People don't talk about it with your friends but you don't like out in the open and like we've talked about the advice online can be really exactly and it's almost like there's a shameful out a little bit taboo actually a lot bit taboo when you get broken up with like you did something wrong even though you didn't obviously but we will love listeners. At home we will love to hear your break-up stories heartbreak stories. Whatever it may be whatever dating sarisi may have. You can always remain anonymous. We can change your name change of waste all that good stuff And of course check out our website. Dateable podcast dot com to submit your stories and last but not least michael dateable. One of the best ways to push through heartbreak is laughter. Then be with friends so come to the one zero eight party on saturday. June eighteenth at the make out room. Bring your friends and meet some new ones and expect a riot of party. And don't forget dateable. Podcast will be doing a funny live performance. Yes you need to wear a onesie yes you can take it off and now this some cuddle party or king thing so please wear something else. Awesome underneath that onesie. Tickets are twenty dollars for one or thirty two and they're selling fast so get yours today by going on that bright and searching for the words onesie party that's spelled o. N. e. s. i e. or head on over to our website at dateable podcasts. Dot com