S3E17 Against the Rules

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. The dateable podcast is hosted by me. I'm you a a former dating coach. In new york turned active data in san francisco on each episode. you'll hear commentary by my co host. Michael vargas fellow dating coach with a clinical psychology background. My producer julie craft check and other surprise co host stay tuned until the end of the episode for fun dating fact presented by our partner lively a new dating app that uses videos to tell your story by the way we started a t shirt line. And we're pretty sure. These t shirts will make killer presence for the holidays so out on our website at dateable. Podcast dot com. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. That opens up a candid conversation about dating in san francisco. So on each episode we dissect a dating story and one of the requests. We always get from our listeners. Is that they want to hear about how people go from dating to relationships. So today I have boris and kate here who when i kind of brought this up to my producer. Julie julie do you want to say hey. Hey when i brought this up to. Julie julie's like i have these great friends of mine who Have a great story. They're getting married this year. And it's a really fascinating story of how they met so please bring them in. But don't tell me anything so cameras. Just say a quick. Hello hello nice to be here right. Now they're in the room with me. But i'm about to kick k out of the room because we're going to interview them one by one separately and see how their stories matchups. Okay love seeing you take some food get some. Why get out of here now. You can talk shit. Boris oh it's on. Well let's start with b k. Which is before kate. Okay okay. What was your dating history. Like at that point before meeting kate so i moved out to california and ended a pretty long relationship so for the first few months. Where did you move from vermont tat. So the first few months who was very much a just work go along with my life and just kind of live. So i wasn't really thinking about dating at all. Wasn't doing any dating in about four on center so i had some friends visit from new york and then they started really grilling me and pushing me like. Hey it's been like four months what's going on like like what are you doing how you mean girls like what's going on in your life and i'm like well you know every once in a while i go out with some friends but keep in mind. I'm new to the city. So it's not like i know a lot of people free craving a girlfriend at this point. Not really no. But i was happy on my own You know it again. This is five years ago so this was there was online. Dating right. this was online. Dating was a thing but especially coming from places like vermont where online dating held still held quite a bit of taboos. I kinda came in with a little bit of stigma around it and a little bit of. Oh i'll meet somebody organically right. It's just it's just going to happen so you get to a point where all your friends are like. Shouldn't you be dating absolutely. Yeah and so a friend of mine visiting from new york and he happened. we both happen to be jewish. Neither one of us is religious. But that's a whole nother conversation. So basically he's listen. We're going to sign you up for j. date. It's great i've been getting laid left and right. It's amazing dot com. Then you know my. My friends suggested j. date and so as someone that was new to this all online dating thing. It worked for him really well so so then you get a date profile. My boris another.

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Boris us russian. Stick together so four sets up your j. date profile. And then what he was on this like messaging girls left and right. I think he probably message something like eighty girls that evening. He was like your profile dating manager. A he'd done before he's got experience. I'm not above kind of seeking help. When i need it so and it seemed like a good cause so one of the girls. I was messaging with ended up being one of them. How many girls messaging or the other. Boris was messaging this. We'll so we started with like eighty but like but as dating sites go that gets called pretty quickly right. It's a reasonable amount. Eighty so your initial tent to talk to kate. What was that like you know so she would probably tell you did. It was pretty awkward right. It's not something that i'd ever done before. So that was your first master. Oh this is going to be embarrassing. I think in her profile. She's had some sort of like joking reference to jersey shore which should put a nice like date in terms of timeline of when this was And so i made some sort of kind of joke about being a big fan of jersey shore again. don't remember the specifics but we started messaging back and forth and then settled on kind of a date. Oh so our first date actually didn't happen so she had an allergic reaction and had to cancel last minute allergic reaction to what two cats she just moved into a new place. The previous people had cats. She's very allergic. So i got this I think it was a message that cancelled our first date. And i basically you know. At this point i hadn't met the scroll i'd message back and forth. I think we did a quick phone call. And what did you think. We should cancel the i date. I basically so going into this right. So expectations were low. So there's as they are with online dating so it wasn't really a big hit or a big loss. It was just a okay. Hey this isn't going to work and move on so then you guys actually did meet up. How when did this happen so well so she canceled but rescheduled note that this was my first actual internet day. Oh okay so it was pretty nervous. I got there. I got to drink. That definitely helps and she showed up and we kind of we just started talking impressions. She's gonna kill me but The female form is is so beautiful. And i do not understand why san francisco tends to and and this was the case. Okay as well like just layers and baggy and all sorts of things and it's certainly like maybe stylish but not not to my taste at least okay so then she comes to to you Did you recognize her. Right away. it was. I mean. yeah this was. We met pretty early in the night. Like i think we met at like five or six. Pm so so so the bar was was far from full and so yeah it was very obvious and yeah so we basically like we plopped ourselves down at the bar got a few drinks started talking okay and the conversation flowed incredibly well. She's an amazing person. She's someone that brings a lot to the table. She's incredibly smart. She's witty she's funny and like we just had this instant banter right this back and forth. Well what's one thing that she told you that you remember one thing that stood out. I don't know that like what she told me right. But in terms of the question she asked really good questions. So she was a great conversationalist she was able to carry on the conversation How did this end. Do i have to answer that question. We went back to her place really. Yeah so the conversation was so good. Whose idea was to go back to her place. I don't remember. I it kind of like it happened pretty naturally i wanna say and then what happened. Tell me yeah. No i mean we. We hooked up it was it was great. Yeah k next morning what happens. Did you spend the night. Yeah okay yeah no spent the night next morning had sex again and what was going through your head at this point.

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You're like all my days. Amazing yeah i was like j. Date is great jewish. No she's not. Did you ask her. why she's i'm jay. She got tired of the dating scene on other websites. And actually you should probably have her answer. This question of why she went on jd. And then how this relationship progress it was. It was a slow start. You know i know i. I went on a few other days between our first date and the second date either already kind of set them up in the other thing is again early on you. Don't really know right. The other dates. That i went on after the fact really solidified for me that like i had a really good connection with kate so took the other dates to in comparison for you know nothing will show you. What a good date should be like like going on a bad day and then on. When did you know that you wanted her. To be your girlfriend when we went to hardly strictly and she went with all my friends my brother and hung out with us all day right that kind of once. I introduced her to my kind of my brother and my friends circle. That started solidifying that. Hey there's something here and this is becoming a relationship. When did you know you were in love with kate. I think when she started accepting overlooking my faults. What are some of your faults. I can be stubborn. She balanced that with equal stubbornness right. I found someone that was equal to me in terms of She wouldn't put up with bullshit. So when did you say. I love you her. She said i love you much earlier. And it did yeah. It took a while. And i didn't as someone who's been pressured to say i love you right so when she said i love you. What did you do we actually. We had a conversation about it in terms of why couldn't say that yet. Why didn't say i love you too. So do you remember the first time he said i love you to her. Do you remember that moment. When did you know that she was the one for you. Yes so we did this crazy trip through siberia. We we motorcycles. We took a motorcycle up the ice roads of siberia. That was just such an amazing adventure. And so that was really. Hey someone that. I can share this with something this out there. This kind of fun and crazy and really really challenging. That's someone that i can really spend my life with. And how long were you guys dating before you propose four years four years so kate was definitely kind of ready for that step before i was and i needed a little more time in that actually created a lot of pressure on our relationship really okay apart that keep back in the room. Boris downstairs for your part. Shar less just start from the beginning. I'm gonna call this a bb before. Boris tell me about the time before. Boris what was your dating history. Like i was single for quite some time probably about six plus years to find single for me not really in a serious relationship but dating dating. Yeah dating meeting guys. I was i had some. I would say pseudo relationships where. I would see somebody for a few months three six months. But i never really connected with someone super seriously and i think my college boyfriend was the last boyfriend that they had talked about anything really serious about or even thought about something like living together. Which would be crazy. So i was. I was single. Kate single for awhile in san francisco. I kinda came to this point where i thought life might be kind of nice if i shared it with someone and i remember. Do you remember what prompted this it. There wasn't really a point. I don't think there was some big. Aha i just. I think a couple of my friends were starting to get into relationships. And i always told myself. Oh that's not for me. That's not something. I'm going to just be alone like i'm super happy. And that's that's that's my life. I'm happy with it. And i saw a couple of friends that had also been single me getting these relationships v very happy and i thought This is this would be.

00:15:11 - 00:20:15

This would be kind of nice. And i think i said to a friend like oh i want to be in a relationship like well. Why and i didn't really have a good answer And then as i thought about it i wanted to see what life would be like with someone else and share with someone so Probably about six months before. I even that boris and then so what did you do when what what websites at the time happened to be living with this woman who is a little bit older. She said oh. Try jaydee nice. I suppose i'm not jewish. Said glow know. You'll like the guys on here in the lake you. It'll be a good. Why she just said hey. They likes the lake women who are smart which i really am not selling intelligent on this podcast. But they said they were by my friend. Who is jewish. Said a lot of things about jewish guys and said hey i think you should. You should try it. What are the great qualities about jewish men. They treat women really well. According to her they are really smart. Really communicative great in bed. That was probably the top four. what was it about. Boris that made you want to communicate with him so he pick something in my profile that he specifically saw and made any comment or was it something about the jersey shore. I had in my profile and he made some comment about it that were i thought very witty and we had good back and forth banter a little bit and then he also asked for my number pretty quickly so it was like gray. I gave it to him and he He called me that evening. So i liked the fast responsiveness still. I still believe you can't really need someone. Overtaxed and form some things so i thought he got a lot of points for not texting i and and picking up the phone and calling. He sounded suite on the phone and then we made plans for for safer. Where was your first date. So we had a little suffering when thursday because we were supposed to go out one evening and i ended up having a really bad. I don't know if you've talked about this. A really bad allergic reaction to like my friend had cats. Since i had slept there and so i had this battery action so i called him to cancel the deed or postpone and i realized it sounds ridiculous because i said hey this is going to sound kind of crazy but i'm really allergic to cats so like my face is small. Can't really leave the house. Because i like. My eyes are shutting. At my. Like i have like it. It wasn't good and he's like all right. Well i'm going away. Can we reschedule for wanting a back in three days so yes so then we had our first so it. There's a little bit. But i was totally honest. I was like well not going to lie. And i don't want to reschedule. I should just be honest. But i realized that the artist truth probably sounds more ridiculous than fiction. Okay still agree to reverse. The in our first date was at bloodhound in oh bloodhound. Okay so much so why not cocktails and tell me about that. First day. i don't know why for some reason. I was nervous which is kind of funny. Because i wasn't. I hadn't been nervous for dates before so i had a drink before. I showed you a drink before. Where at home across the street. What did you wear. Do you remember. Guests as he affectionately calls the shirt. I wear blue curtain a boob curtain abukar head at highs. Everything he's like. Oh actually ever figure. Tell me about your first impressions of boris. When you walked into bloodhound he was really cute. He looked he looked has pitcher. Do you remember anything about his pictures. His profile photos. Yes i do actually He was in one pitcher skiing in his In disco pants okay. So how did this first date end at bloodhound. south end up bloodhounds. We ended up having drinks. He came back to my place. We hooked up and he went home the next morning who initiated going back to your place probably most likely me. He was really interesting. He kind of made me nervous in a way. But in a good way nervous like i felt like butterflies really know him and stuff and i think he was really interesting was super communicative to define communicative for me.

00:20:16 - 00:25:04

So i think one of the things he's done since we started dating as he said good night or what tax me every and that was that little thing was very. It was very sweet. At what point did you guys become boyfriend girlfriend. Do you remember a dt. Our conversation or a defining moment We were going to this point and he was like well. I really wanna be your friends. And i think that that was part of the okay lake friends and we're gonna meet each other's friends and being twined. We have a conversation about seeing seeing each other and possibly seeing other people not seeing other people. Were you seeing other people. Though after the first day i did see someone else But a realized that. I i liked him more than this other person and so i decided not to and i know that he had also seen other people at least in the beginning because he told me it was very honest and it was very Is very sweet of him to say it. Because at that point we had been together. Like doesn't matter but appreciate you telling me. Do you remember this. I love you moment to describe it for me. We were yours sir cheesy. We're at this park way. I met i had a puppy and he helped me raise this puppy and he was playing with the dogs and i just looked at him and i knew like oh this is i feel this way towards this person and kind of scary to do it so you just you said it i. Yes and he didn't say back so then i didn't say it after for a little while but i would say it occasionally. I said you know what i'm going to put myself out there This is how i feel. And if if he feels this way like it seems like an his actions he was saying it but he wasn't in his words which did for a little while. make me feel kind of insecure At the same time. I was like okay like i've put myself out there and i'm out there so not forcing him to say it. If he wants to say that he will and then when did he say it back few months after months after you said a few months after do you remember that moment when he said l. of yeah he was like i have something to tell you And he like. I have two things i need to tell you. Good news like he said like good news like not like he's like the don't worry they're both good which you want to hear i. He was like you. Make my life. Great and i love you so and then win. Did you know that this is it. This is a guy for you I think the because of the love part that that definitely helped When he started to integrate a lot more with my friends and he made such an effort with all of my runs and really getting to know them to help them. And like do all these other things. I think for me. The big part of okay like this is. This is what i want someone life with. Let me tell them to come upstairs now. I have boris and kate back in the room. Hey guys i'm just going to go through some of the major milestones in your relationship leading up to your engagement. You can just don't be nervous. Looks nervous and this'll be the first time. Our producer julie Will be hearing both sides of the story. This'll be really interesting. It's always great to see what people take away from like initial stages of dating right. So let's just go from the beginning. I said to. Boris what was it. Like b k before kate. What was like b b. A for boris. Right so boris is going through stages in his life where he was enjoying being single and kate was just like i was casual dating for like six years in san francisco so kind of like two different sides of the equation here but porous happy being single but my friends were like. Maybe you should meet someone you know. Maybe get a girlfriend of sorts and he was really adamant about meeting someone organically what he finally realized that he had pretty much zero opportunity for that to happen. And k kinda fell similar situation. Where cates like. You know what. I was happy being single but all my friends starting to couple off.

00:25:04 - 00:30:02

I saw how happy they were in relationships. And that's what influenced me to be like. Maybe extra go find someone and it's interesting. We hear this a lot from couples and from people who go from single life to couple life when their friends cert- coupling often. They're like you know what. Maybe i should try this thing called relationship so e the mindset was really interesting because cates like. I think. I'm ready to share my life with someone and boris felt like maybe i should just be someone like another another human hold on. I work with humans. Meet human in a different capacity so i asked how. How did you guys meet and at this point. Boris had never done online dating kate. How this brilliant idea from her friend you should try d. jewish men shooting a nice jewish. Boy they're smart. They're smart they treat women. Well they're communicative and boras his front. Boris another guy named boris was like you should try jd. 'cause i get laid a lot on both people end up on jay day at the same time. Now keep in mind. Kate is not jewish but whatever. She's willing to try it both. You said you have really great communication really great back and forth banter and which we hear this. A lot from from couples is that back and forth. It's very natural even if it's through messaging on an app or online dating site. Kate really like the fact. Boris you ask for her number right away so she knew that this wasn't going to be just an online conversation forever. You took action and you called her that night the day he got her phone number. You called her that. I really don't understand the fear of phone calls. It's something that i've ever had. I mean welcome. To millennials right old. Yeah could show some of your age but some people are just afraid of phone calls know. They're afraid of actually speaking to a humid so boris remembers uk walking in and he was like what is it with san san francisco women who address in such a way where so like baggy clothing. Not showing your figure explain. What a boob curtness. It hides the entire female figure of like. Oh gee i don't know. This date did not end up. Bloodhound ended that cates place and cape says she probably initiated inviting you over to her place at the end of the night that could have the case with any sort of modern romance and modern dating. You guys are very talked about this. You were seeing other people at this point early on in the relationship. Kate had one other person kind of in the lineup. You were going on other states. But what i do want stress is the point. Both of you made is that. It took dating other people to realize that. Boris and kate were right for each other. You guys went on several more dates. I asked both of you on. What date did you know that you were boyfriend girlfriend. When did you know that you were exclusive together. So bar said it took hardly strictly for him to decide that you were his girlfriend because he was introducing you that way to his family and friends that was when he met his friends. And i tell you. That's when i sorta that was when we bet but i didn't think we were actually official until a couple of like the week or two leader. But he did at some point he me as his girlfriend. I thought oh maybe i actually am. But i wasn't sure at that point that he was he did come Yeah i remember the. I remember that day very very well. So for kate the defining moment was when you asked her if you could start meeting her friends. So that's like that's like a signal of you being like can i be integrated into your life. Let's merge our lives together. I do think meeting friends is a defining moment. Because how do you. How do you introduce that person. You're not like this is a girl from j. day. She's not jewish. that's weird. I don't know but it takes that it takes like introducing to the people who are most important my life. This is my girlfriend. this is my boyf- yeah and looking looking back. I've had relationships where i haven't gotten along with how to kind of a connection with my girlfriends friends. And like hindsight that was was huge red flags. I do think this is important to say to note. is that. Kate said her feelings are developing. She knew that you were someone important to her win. You would say good night to her every night and that was like right from the beginning when we started dating like he did it every night.

00:30:02 - 00:35:01

I don't know if you remember. It sounds like something. I would do app some like i. I assure you that. I'm not that clever so then i asked. I want to know win. Did you know that you were in love k. So this is where it gets really interesting ask. Kate had a very vivid memory of her knowing she loved. You when you were you guys were at a park. You're walking her puppy and she looked at us she's like i'm in love with boris. I'm in love with him and shortly after that she said to you she said i love you and boris remembers. You saying i love you. And he didn't say it back said. It was very awkward for both of you but boris is the type of person. I know quite a few guys kind of like you. You're so stubborn. The po to the point where you're like even ready. I'm gonna arrive at that point on my own one hundred percent. Nobody's going to calms me there. So let me take my word so much more that way but the beauty of someone like that is whatever they say they mean it. There is so much weight to it every the first time s whispered in for another five minutes just like i'd win. Did you know that you're in love with kate. And he said when. I realized that she was overlooking all of my faults including me being stubborn and i think that is something that comes up. A lot is that you know you love someone when you can be yourself one hundred percent around them. They're holding hands if you guys are making our I do have a clause that you can go into. Kate remembers that. You said i love you at her apartment. I asked you when you when you said i love you. Remember that moment. Boris is like no of course but it was kate's apartment. And you said. I have two things i want to say to you. Were were those two things you make my life. Great and i love. You was afterwards shopping together. So i don't know if there is a correlation. Do you remember that. No no but i mean if you can make shopping pleasant. Boris also wanted to mention. He knew that he fell in love with you was also on your trip to siberia where he felt like. This is a person who can kind of rough environment with me and be in this with me together. She's like my partner for life. And i do think sometimes trips vacations experiences can really help shape a relationship or break it or break relationships. No it's a true test. Think there are ways to test your relationship. And i hate to say test because that's a that's like almost saying that you're You're doubting your relationship a ways to see multiple facets of your relationship is to do something together that you're both afraid of like going into an environment some couples going to networking events together. Where they don't know anybody in an industry they don't nothing about and just go into it together associate francisco. That's very san francisco. I do know that or like you go rock climbing together. If you've never done rock climbing do something both of you where you're overcoming a fear as a great way to see another facet of your relationship when i'm learning from both of you This love story that you both have is that you guys basically did not follow the rules of dating. You slept with each other on the first date. You're on you're on jd. And you're not even jewish. Okay girl said i love you. I i knew there is like everything in this relationship was the opposite of what you normally hear like a rom com and still worked out. Because why why do you think it worked out. So we respect each other right. Like i have an amazing amount of respect for cage. She adds so so much of my life so once i found someone that did that for me then after that it was kind of all figured out what you respect about. Kate named some qualities her willingness to learn change in grow. There's some where it's a. Hey this is why i am. This is what i like. And that's at in. There's this rigidness that's there. And and the fact that our relationship and artem dynamic was was fluid really like to me that that was the biggest thing and kate. What are you respect about. Boris got answer again. I can't then he prepares. They were all like on the verge of tears right now. Oh god where do i.

00:35:02 - 00:40:01

Where do i start. He's so open and humble and willing to be himself but also share all of that with me. And i think for most people even for myself like when you meet poets. It's really hard to make yourself open in. Expose your hopes your dreams and your fears with someone and He's so open With with me about that. I think that what i'm getting from. You guys assist dynamic of not a me versus you dating these days. A lot of people have that me versus you mentality like the whole oh after we slept together. It's a me versus you. I guess i'm not gonna tax you. I know not gonna tax you first right but both of you just kept an open mind about what would happen next although you had baseline low expectations but it was more you're very communicative about like okay. I don't know what's happening. I've never done this before. I'm new to this. Let's just we're in this together. And is that togetherness that. I find really refreshing so i think for listeners at home. Here's an action item for you. There's two one is if you're in like a strange place with some unusual just dating and there's there's a knee that's not being that or you have some sort of miscommunication reach out to them and communicate with them. Tell them why you're in the strange state of mind or tell them what it is that you need right now and why you're feeling this way and see. Just see how they respond. There's no need to be like well if he doesn't know or if she doesn't know humphry right now. Then we're obviously not right for each other. Give that person a chance communicate and then give them a chance to respond. Action item number to go on jay. Everybody should apparently. That's mazal tov dancing your photos. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Oh oh we have a little special. This is amazing. I forgot okay. We have a little surprise for you for us because you don't have a really good memory. We thought that maybe we should bring back some of the initial messages. That were exchanged on j. j. d. Ruin the whole episode. I haven't read to you. So here's your copy. Here's your copy. We're starting from here. Apparently this is you read that. You're right about ronnie and sammy. What a train wreck. Crisis averted are twos the situation as my role model in life. Funny i aspire to be as coolest nikki one day. Apparently they are back together and the latest season through the paycheck. I mean working things out on. Mtv vermont lived in massachusetts for bet on new england. How are you enjoying the best coast so far where okay. Well i really wrote. This is well okay. I don't know yet. But i'm willing to bet you'll be able to live up to your aspirations. I can't say i've really followed this show in the past year. Thanks for catching me. Up on the happenings. It's a relief to know that nikki is doing well. I was kinda worried about her. Where did you live in mass question. Mark i spent most of my childhood in acton about twenty five minutes outside of boston. San francisco has been really good so far. Yeah yeah my brother lived has lived in the city for the past few years so it's been a relatively easy move. Although meeting new people is proving a bit more difficult than i was anticipating giving my work schedule in general wave life out here hence. Jd how long have you lived in the bay area question. Mark if only i can get as or his just she is never ended up moving out here with the company best of all. I can run outside year round and have been here for years. My favorite place is dolores park. How about you meeting people on the internet is totally kosher out here and my talk real role. It's kinda funny because my friend back in. Boston met her boyfriend of two years online and still tells everyone they met at a bar. I noticed these ski. Have you've been a tahoe at all. I ski quite a bit.

00:40:01 - 00:43:17

Grew up racing competitively now. I just for fun. I've been up to tahoe. But i'm hoping to make it up more often this coming winter. Do you ski or snowboard question. Mark do you wanna meet at some point question. Mark wander around the city question mark. I don't want to meet. I just wanna be internet. Only friends just getting sure. Here's myself to hear from you. Said it's really amazing because reading this right now. This is still our personalities to this day. Are you guys in the interest of time. Let's just wrap this up. I love this so much guys at home. We want to hear your stories about how you got together with your significant other. It's it it's possible right. It's possible to find true love in the city. It's possible to find true love in this modern age of romance. We've seen it with boris and kate. We've seen it with some of other guests Their story was not you know in any way fairy tale like but it's still moved to tears because when you find someone you connect with just fucking work it just works and you respect each other and you wanna be with each other. It's conscious couple hood. And i believe in it so share your stories with us You can remain anonymous if you choose to do so. You can drop us a line at dateable. Podcasts dot com last. But not least one to three here. Sedating fact brought to you by lively a new video dating app and we have kept from lively here cat. What are people looking for in their significant others so we surveyed both men and women what they thought were the most important qualities in your significant others and the most important quality two men was trust over. Fifty percent of men. Actually almost fifty four percent of men said that trust is the most important quality in their significant other the second most important quality wise intelligence and the third sexiness and for women for women. It was pretty similar. Women also stated that trust was the most important quality they look for in a man but surprisingly not as many women said that as men just under fifty percent of women's that okay on the second one was also intelligence intelligence but the third one. The third one was kindness. I like that. yes so we. They don't really care so much about the sexiness they want a guy. Who's kind do you. I because we're smart. We know sexiness. We'll die down with age and heard lots of my girlfriends. Say that guy has really kind is where he has a really kind demeanor. So that's actually a really fascinating thought for guys to you know just to think about like how you're projecting yourself like it. Well thanks cat and thanks lively for that dating fact videos. Tell your story better. Download the lively dating out today at go lively app. Dot com to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts.