Linda tells us about a little ‘dating app’ experiment she did that didn’t get her as many dates as expected. We discuss why her first message may have backfired, problems with the ‘swipe culture’, and even why Hinge is changing their strategy completely.
S3E7 The Dating Experiment
00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons progress. The fun part is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. The database podcast is hosted by me. I'm you a a former dating coach. In new york turned active in san francisco on each episode. you'll hear commentary by my co host. Michael vargas fellow dating coach with a clinical psychology background. My producer craft check and other surprise co co-hosts. This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred brunches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interests and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of six to eight at a brunch spot in san francisco get a free entry into a brench now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable. Show that opens up a candid conversation. About dating and san francisco folks each episode we dissect a dating story and today. I believe we have linda lend in the house and she comes with a stack of papers. So i'm guessing she either wrote a dissertation about dating or she has a really long story to share. I'm well. I conducted a little experiment last summer and i kept track of what i did so i have the results and i had kind of tabulated it so i could learn. I could learn from what i did for myself but then also give it to my friends or people such as your audience. Please do share everything so before you share what it is. Can you tell us why you decided to do something like this. So i i was talking to somebody and about dating and san francisco and they were like just go on. Some tinder dates and i was kind of like well. It's really not that easy to just go on some tinder dates. And i also have some premises that about formalities. Especially i'm in my early thirties. And so i feel like often. The guy likes to make the first move and you know often we have preconceived gender gender about like who does what i that gets kind of entangled with Basically how you are in life. So for me i make most things in my life happen Except in the dating world. I feel like there's this question of like who makes the first move and what's acceptable. So i came to this kind of experiment with that premise. Of like wanting to know basically. Could i make the first move and would that be receptacle to people. I at one point. In time. I was had been on tinder and i thought it would be fun to get as many matches as i could. And so i think i'd banks like over five hundred matches and nobody was really messaging me or i was going on dates so i What i did i This was last summer. So i i went through all the people i had matched with unmatched with anyone who hadn't been active in two thousand fifteen or clearly didn't live in san francisco so and then i sent the same message to the remaining two hundred and forty five people so half exactly exactly and the message i said i said hey so and so how has your week or how's your weekend going. And they said what's the best. I message that you've gotten on tinder. I also made the decision to keep the conversation going as much as i possibly could. And then i basically kept track of the results of who i was talking to in a spreadsheet wall.
00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Two hundred forty five people. You wouldn't a spreadsheet or an assistant right. Well the thing was. I got a seventeen percent response. Rate so of those two hundred and forty five forty two replied at all of those forty two people. Most of the conversations occurred within a twenty four hour period. All two hundred and forty five messages resulted in zero dates. What zero asks. Why do you think that is. That's a very good question. I could be very bad at keeping up conversations which is a possibility it goes back to this. Initial premise of do guys like to be in control of the conversation. A little bit also are people just on some of these apps just to be on there and just kind of browse talking about this with friends has brought up some very interesting kind of Back stories about like what people think about. Who messages i or kind of the rules of dating so i think this is very interesting because i don't know if you know. We did a tender experiment. Where i asked twenty guys they one hook up and twenty guys. Nineteen of them. were like. Yeah there was a there was action involved. When do you want to hook up. Where do you want to do this now. I think it's because there was a call to action right. So do you wanna hook hookup. That's a call to action. Your question was more of a research base question. What's your what's best for sign you've gotten so for a guy that's very neutral owner and maybe that doesn't lead to action. That's that's true. That's what my theory is at this point. Well how do you initiate a conversation with somebody that you want to get to know versus like asking them like. Oh do you want to hook up. I mean yes that is very action oriented. But i mean. Obviously it's like you're getting a very different kind of set of people but isn't that the problem we're facing these days you're either hooking up or you're not there is almost no gray area it's black or white and i think people have a hard time doing that initial opener and then how do you convert that into action. And i've read this somewhere on tinder. If you're not ass out within the first twenty four hours of talking to someone you'll never be asked out exactly exactly you'll never hear from them. You'll never hear from them again. And then you just have to match them. I have unmatched rule. If i don't hear from you. Within twenty four hours. I o match. I'm not a tender i. I've never used hinder. But i imagine that when i'm talking to someone i want it to be fun and entertaining and exciting and interesting And i gotta feeling like there are a lot of elements out there. That people do approach is better very just dolan. Boring is just so much. Clutter that you have to break through. You have to stand out amongst thousands of other people that they've swiped through you know question of what's the best line that sums ever used it just it like i dunno fishing for something versus being of interest Okay that's an interesting point. It feels fishing. And maybe it wasn't the best. I one and the you know i vary for the hulk so on bumble. I'm on bumble right now. And it's like okay around holidays like what's your what. What drink are you. What's your drink for the holidays and and people were like well. I don't drink. I'm like you could have said like by smoke. Like whatever like what's your like. I'm just trying to figure out some common ground that we can like have figure out a way to start a conversation. Why are you doing this ultimately. I want to date somebody. Like that is why i'm doing this and i I have very limited time commute. And that's the point of the apps in my mind is that they are kind of in addition to Your day to day. It's like you are out of bar and you're like okay. Do i want to talk to this person. Do not want to talk to this person. And then if they say yes then you can start talking and see where something goes. You will approach a guy at a bar. I won't necessarily like go approachable guy to bar i will. I have played a game in the past with my friends called. Pick a guy pick a line. Which is you. Choose the cheesiest pickup line that you can. I wanna play that game. Actually it's actually super fun and you go up and with i mean you're out with your friends and you're like we gotta talk to some dudes like come on. Let's do this and they pick a guy you deliver a line and either they're like. Oh that was funny. Ha ha ha. Uh or they're like okay. You're you're weird. I very rarely a guy will be like that's weird.
00:10:01 - 00:15:13
Oh it's happened the more popsicle stick. Ask joke kind of thing. It is the safer you are. What does that mean for example. How much polar bear way. How much enough to break the ice. So like super cheesy. Can i just give you a few good ones or just one. Good one but i got recently. This guy said hey. I heard your good in algebra. Can you replace my ex without asking why. That's very good. And then i wrote back and i said. Do you have any more these no. That's my only one of our conversation. But i think i want to go back to linda's point of going on bumble versus tinder. I know that if you did this experiment on bamboo two hundred and forty five would converted to two hundred forty five. Ask because i think it's because i'm bumble. You're expected to make that first move. But i think on tinder. It's a little bit abnormal. Eight guys very suspicious on tender when it make the first move. I've learned that. I've learned that i've learned from tom. I didn't even tell you guys michael. Tom wrote back to me. So of the twenty guys. I asked to hook up on tinder. One guy didn't respond. Oh wait did that was the one guy who did. Tom is the one guy who did the guy who didn't respond. But we had a mutual friend. And i had the mutual friend. Tell tom to respond back to me. And tom wrote me three pages of messages. Say how he and that's and how he was suspicious of my message. He thought it was a span dot. He didn't think i was sincere. He was looking for something real. You know what's funny even though he didn't respond i expected the most. I think you're right because he got tender because of it no. He didn't say that he did get off tinder. But i still think it's interesting. It's all in context. We talked about this before. It's all in context of what happens. What else is in that. That package of north is that is that is that a chart. I saw pie chart. Hr and can't charge. Oh yes. I mean i also use it as i was like i have never calculated time differentials in excel. What do you do for work. I mean as part of my job. I do a lot of data analysis. So i mean it's not like too far off the mark for me to be being like what is what does this say i mean that's kind of part of how i've processed it what i have decided though as a result of this is i will message people more because i kind of feel. It's all a numbers game so even bumble. So i'm on bumble right now and it's definitely the one i use the most. It's definitely the one that people respond to the most because there is no kind of premise of like people aren't gonna Or sorry there's no question of who has to do that. I i ask in. Make the i ask still plenty of times. People don't respond. Do you feel like you're more much more logical person or a much more emotional person. I would say that i am. I'm a logical person. I do. I mean i try to think things through but i also have those Emotional kind of gut feel like we're going to just go take wherever the day takes us. That's where we're going gonna do. Because i i hear from like a lot of people like with When they're warned the logical side of like the same things that you're expressing with like dating and and how to approach things So i'm just curious is what is your perspective on that of being someone who's more logical in the dating world versus someone who has kind of more emotionally driven. You know who. I am is who i am. So there's there's that component of like i love spreadsheet so like you know you wanna talk about your favorite excel function. I'm here. I'm your gal One of my strengths is actually being like deductive and logical and when people don't message back after a month i'm not taking it really personally am like well. They don't like me. I'm going to move on. It's it's been a month. And they haven't responded in their cluttering up this like whole stream of people flying. Yeah that are here. So let's just move on okay so i'm going through some of your results. These are interesting. You should very detailed notes. This is amazing. Tinder hinge happen. Which did you have better luck on. So i had zero. Sorry i had one day that resulted out of all of these on hinge and i was stood up to explain no he unmatched me so and so actually i have so by telling that story so many people get stood up on online dating all the time like i had a friend get stood up three times in one week and i have guy friends who were there like.
00:15:13 - 00:20:06
Oh yeah that happens. All the time with tender. Yeah wait but this this saying in your tinder notes saying you went on a date with this guy. Let's see your last his last message. Was linda likewise together soon. Thanks for your number. Oh you went on a date with this guy okay. Three messages from him. A research of the congo on. I don't know you wrote that in your. That's from tinder i did. This is awesome. She wrote called him the wrong name. Copy and paste was not a full foolproof but he responded so that got him to respond. I will say on half of the tinder ones. I also in component of that that got a lot more responses that said or do you think it's a turn off if the lady makes the first ascends the first message and not got a lot more initial responses that was no but not any follow up right not surprising. I liked how this one says. There was well over a year between his last message and the standard question so took him four hundred and ninety nine one days right. The next message but see this is with tinder is that you could be off tender but your profile exists still so you like you could get in a relationship the day after you message someone and your profile exists so then it almost seems like your coasting on someone. You're not you know it's just in this virtual world you still exist honestly why i really like the new bumble feature that is they expire after twenty four hours so it means the only people that are actively using the site. You're talking to. What other takeaways did you get from your research. I would say that if you see anything of interest in anybody's profile swipe right and that you can always end a conversation by can never start a conversation you never had. That's true now. My last question is what was your profile. What did you say in your profile for tender. That's a great question I don't know it's probably has not changed. I can show you right now. Because i feel like that place into whether people message you back or not and then totally very last thought is i think i read something the other day that stuck with me all these online dating apps are there to make the introduction. It's up to you to make things happen. So let's stop blaming these online apps because if you're meant to meet someone you're going to meet them in one way or the other and they're just providing one extra method for you to meet them. So how take it from there is up to you Changed what i had in my profile sense because right now all it says is what she said. I tried to try to be comical. I would i swipe right on you. There you go so you know what you guys. Just use tinder. Only dating as an apparatus. Chew me do experiment doer. Respectfully and you never know who you'll meet. I met someone when i did the tender experiment. It was phenomenal. You got pie charts run from your tinder experiment and you're all experience so i think it's always worthwhile to just go experiment. Try to go out of your comfort zone. If you don't normally message. I message. I try it all. Do it all who cares. Just have fun with it. Question of the day is what should you say in your online dating profile. So i think this is a very convoluted question just because it obviously depends on who you are but some people like for me. I like to keep it short. Because i don't like to give too much information and some people love to give a lot of information. The one thing. I do know i've read this and research. A girl should never right. I'm not here for hookups in their in their profile. Because every guy rita and goes. I wonder if she wants to hook up. There's serves no purpose to write that in your profile. Yeah i agree on that. I say that You should write something that you wouldn't find out on a first date so Something that is more kind of personality based versus something that somebody's going to see in a photo so that you give somebody an opportunity to say something more. Oh that's a great one are gonna have a different idea of it. I would say maybe focus. I dunno more or less. But the pitchers like i think you can use the pictures as a way of displaying. What it is that you would put your by like pictures. Worth a thousand words like give me a little pitcher to understand who you are but if you start talking to somebody they do look at their your profile and then if you want to continue the conversation you've got to have something there i agree.
00:20:06 - 00:22:16
You gotta have a little substance. When i was in norway met this phenomenal girl. And she's like my best friend met her husband because on her tinder profile she listed all her flaws none of her positive characteristics. And she said if you can handle this we're good match. And she said before she was getting hundreds of matches and she got two matches and of the two one of one of them was her husband so that could be an interesting way. You know list all your loss. Put it all out there if you have a third nipple. just put it on their. Nobody wants to be booze like that. Okay you guys out this up. If you have a dating story for us we love to hear from you. We can protect your name and changed the names of the people involved in your story either way we just love hearing all of your dating stories and on that notes last but not least michael ticket away. Dateable this episode. You're not alone in your frustrations with these dating apps. And that is why we're starting to see new apps. Come up all the time trying to resolve some of these issues also lately. We've been seeing existing apps trying to revamp their current platforms. One good example is hinge. Who has now completely changed their app to what they're calling a relationship app. Have you tried it. What do you think is it going to solve. Oliver online. Dating lows draws a line with your thoughts your action item for this week is to solidify date within twenty four hours of matching with someone. Obviously you wanna make sure you want to meet up with them first but once you've established interest get a date set. The most efficient way to meet. New people is a combination of online and offline five hundred branches has your offline covered connect over brunch with new friends. Come alone or bring a buddy. There's always a table. Full of friendly faces mimosas and eggs benedict sign up at five hundred branches dot com and use the code date able for free entry to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts.