Jake and Nathan tell us about their experience with dating apps – in SF vs. NY. We discuss how women present themselves differently, ratios playing into the dating culture, gender dynamics in each city, and making the most of dating in any city you call home.
S4E15 Empire Swipe of Mind
00:00:04 - 00:05:01
Hey we want to meet you. Would you like to meet us to the correct answer is yes. So we're having a joint happy hour with our friends at nine. Four one social club on thursday. June twenty second. It's actually more of a bar crawl on the marina that will start at seven pm. The data team along with some past guests will be at the palm house starting at nine pm in the best part is you're going to give free drinks. Find out by checking out our facebook page under dateable. Podcast hope to see that The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at brench spot in san francisco. Get a free entry into a french now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable. A show all about dating in san francisco. But today we're gonna talk about people who live in san francisco but choose not today for cisco or choose to prefer to date in other cities. I have jake with me and nathan so just a couple of stats for you guys. Jake has been in san francisco for three years from new jersey. He is twenty eight years old. Memorize your sad. And nathan has been san francisco for seven years but born in oakland and he's thirty three years old. I'm good i. I wrote it all down but then i don't know where my little paper went okay. You both told this story separately of each other. That were so similar. Which is you prefer the women on dating apps in new york for me personally. Yes it's much easier for me to not be dating here in san francisco not that it's impossible. We could talk about that. And the nathan there just so many so so so many women in new york. You can run out of women on a dating app. You can actually swipe to the end of bumble in new york. It just keeps going. That's happened to you. River i have swiped to the end. Yes holy shit. I didn't know if there. I don't know what the male female ratio in san francisco is have swiped to the end within a ten mile radius of san francisco and in new york. There's just let me. I will preface all by saying that. I'm a computer engineer. And i looked at the data of a dating app. I'm not going to the dating app. To figure out the ratios between who's on who's in new york and who's in san francisco and in san francisco. There are two guys for everyone girl and in new york. It's just opposite about two girls for everyone guy and those are the an. I basically crawled these dating apps using these computer ways that i that i can and basically found all their users and put it in a database. Did those random statistics and that is the statistics. So we're purely talking numbers here. No okay there's more to this story. they're i mean. New york is a special place. There's a lot amongst all those all those women. And i really don't know the male side of the equation. There's the diversity not just ethnic diversity. I just mean the variety fashion art technology the whole again whereas here. It's very here being san francisco. It's a little more homogeneous relatively speaking so people from a bunch of different backgrounds which is intriguing in and of itself. And i'm based in san francisco but whenever i land in new york and i traveled their frequently. Can if i open up one of these apps you're kind of it kind of takes you back the bar which women have maintained their profile. I give you great example. I was just there. I was on staying with my sister. Who lives in brooklyn. I was on the couch Swiping on fumble and my sister's looking over my shoulder and she goes. Why did you swipe left on her. She was beautiful. They're all beautiful. I don't i. I don't know how to chew. I have no criteria. Because i don't think necessarily that every single one of them any more beautiful than women in san francisco but they sure know how to make a profile.
00:05:03 - 00:10:02
It's the bikini shot. It's the super fancy. Gol gol address shot Hanging out with a friend shot. You know it's it's impressive. Have you met any of them in real life or are we just admiring their profiles. We are just admiring their profiles on the series window shop window shopping. Jake did you have similar. Experience then will a big part of this is just what san francisco is in the first place. Right what types of people san francisco tracks now in new york. They're bunch of models mantra theater. People attracts all sorts of really beautiful women who grew up in watching these different shows and they watch sex in the city is a big one. They wanna live that life manhattan. It's not the same as san francisco. If you con- san francisco. You like work in tech your nerd for the most part and what kind of girls that attracts. You know not to say that there. Aren't that many beautiful. You know that there aren't beautiful girls that work in tech. But i think that it saf uniform present company excluded right and the other thing is sort of career mindset in san francisco. It's very entrepreneurial it's very You know everybody's very ambitious and they're you know that's how they see themselves whereas new york it's kind of like oh let me be your wife sort of thing as i see it. Yon more attractive. No i'm not saying i'm saying that. That is the mindset that they're looking for a guy something stable like were in francisco. It's very like oh it's more almost. I think more feminine a feminist point of view where it's like. Oh i have my own career. I can date guys. I'm not looking to settle down which is funny. Because i hear from my female friends who live in new york that it's so incredibly frustrating because men trade down in age very easily. There's no desire to commit. I was actually thinking. I just got back two days ago from new york and i was going if i lived here and i was actually playing the bumble game and chose bundled just because she kind of narrow it down i would. I would just have to say. I'm going to swipe a couple times. I'm going to match with these girls. And i'm just gonna play it slow. We're san francisco. I pay the numbers game. Like how many people can you swipe over there. It'd be like okay. I pace myself then at the same time and this is actually how we got talking about this podcast. To begin with the effort on my end is so much lower over there. I've match with girls and they start. They start real conversation with me. Which hey i saw your profile. Google your work. This is what you do. You know this whole paragraph. Whereas here i just get high which is frustrating for me as a guy because when i have to initiate the message hi doesn't cut it so i'm i'm on the dating apps. I set my location as new york. So the reason i did that is when i actually went to new york a couple of months ago. I got to new york sometimes and get them lined up. We'll we'll i just discovered on like man i'm on i'm on bumble. Amman j. swipe on all these dating apps and i keep on getting matches. And it's like. I went on four dates one night and i just kept on telling them. Oh i'm sorry. But i have to go meet my cousin. You know when it was actually the next day at a bar around the corner. And i just kept on going back that whole time and then it ended a night. And i'm like which do i like the most okay and i gave her call and i actually hooked up with her that night you know and and she's like oh how is the How's your cousin. Like oh yeah. It was really great. You know when. I actually had like three more dates after her. And how do you explain to these women that you don't actually live in new york. I i was just telling them that. Oh i live in new york. And i'm just away and then the mike what's your number. Whatever and then. I realized that that doesn't really work. And i'm i'm getting a lot of like we can look at kind of my dating app here and we can see like there's girls contacting me like oh. When are you coming back really. Yeah so this is why. I have not actually gone out on a date new york because i see so many profile women's profiles that say explicitly. I am not looking to meet visitors if you leave. Don't message me and i'm like. La is a different story. Because it's easy enough. And i know a lot of people who met women in. La and they moved up. Birthday moved out dated in other than san francisco york city. Now this issue. I have with new york because i lived in new york for seven years. My issue is spoil from then in new york as well. I'm already spoke what i do is.
00:10:02 - 00:15:00
I have a list on ivan notepad list of girls in new york with their numbers. So when i get and that's about thirty five right now and these are all full beautiful women. I only swiped right on the most beautiful in new york. And i can't even afford to swipe right on the mediocre beautiful ones in san francisco that i may go on a date with here just because there's too many of my can't i just can't have so many girls trying to message me. I can't even respond to all of them and they're always like oh. Why aren't you talking to me. And you know all this stuff. The way that i can the way that i put his. I feel like a girl in san francisco. Were the girls you have tons of guys messaging you and it's like you can't keep up and sometimes you're slow. That's how i feel. And i just can't i just can't keep up. It's impossible. I do think the numbers they. I've heard from women in new york. It's it's hard today to new york. Numbers are everything because that that truth is when you say two to one right to girls to one guy that number may seem like well whatever but trickled that trickles down. But i think that's what you guys are seeing scarce seeing new blood. Come in these outlets like reaching out and being more aggressive like you said. They crashed nice messages. Fresh blood is a thing you land in a city and your face pops up and an instant instant matches women in new york place more importance on being feminine. So they do their hair. They put on makeup. They get their nails done. It's all about the way they look. They package themselves very well. Women here don't put nearly as much effort into their looks as they do in new york because they feel like they don't have to also to they don't want to give into that stereotype and it's not the norm here. Lincoln are the one that's super dressed up at the bar and done up. You'll look out of place. So my sister she comes here. I live in russian hill. She'll hang out in her leather jacket. Shoes the whole the whole nine yards at the coffee shop and she just saturday morning. She's like what is everyone doing. And yoga pants. This entire and i live in the worst neighborhood for that but this entire neighborhood looks like it's going to the gym or just came from the gym. But they're just going about their business because one. It's not the norm and two. I think there is a mentality here of. I don't need to do this to get a man and you know. I'll tell you that when we're talking about women that you know they're all feminist and they're big on their careers i've been on dozens of dates dozens of first dates here in san francisco and i personally will pay for the drinks. You know that's what i will always do. However it says something really amazing about the girl if the girl will pay for the drinks herself not offer will pay an and it's very rare that a girl will offer to pay the whole bill on the first date which he may offer to do a split which is not a good sign if split. That means that she probably not doesn't want to see you again. So it's like it's even. I look for the thank you basically. I'm paying no matter what well as long as you think. Say thank you well. it's all that's all. I'm asking that you know that's good. But i'm just saying is that in new york. I had a girl behind me a drink. That's almost the flip irony. Is that yet san francisco for all these women that looked love to go out and talk a big game and protest women's rights and here they are and they're benefiting from these dates because they know they can this conversation's has been very superficial about beauty. And what people like. Geiger's i just gonna put that out there and like the reality is that maybe women aren't as like up on their game here as new york but is that the blocker. That's happening is that why these people aren't to your standards. Definitely women here looking for men. Yeah i mean. I'm going to go back to seventy. I don't think the women here aren't to my standards. I just think there way you when you go to new york. There are so many women. It's your overwhelming to. I almost just want to send you guys to new york for six months and then have you come back and tell me what you think. I definitely have a lot of single guy friends in new york. We're having a hard time. Who are successful attractive blog blah but they also feel like the way the way women feel about men in new york men also feel that way about women which is a lot of them trade up a lot of them can find better hotter more successful and that fickleness of what's what's bad.
00:15:00 - 00:20:02
What's next right. that's also true some of my hesitation when actually going out with new york not knowing getting into true as much as i can talk about the numbers in the looks of that it's more just than it is actual experience. I mean i think no one's gonna disagree that obviously if there's more people have a better shot not on that but i think at the end of the day like real people was only takes one but there is truth to leave you meet. That person doesn't necessarily matter how many other people are around your of course the yes you can meet the right person in san francisco and then like who even cares. That's always that's always been the case you. What do you have to say about. Male meekness in san francisco. When i first moved to the city from the east bay. i could talk to girls at starbucks. Just go to a coffee shop. Whatever this is before niche coffeeshops or thing and it was really easy to strike up a conversation now. it feels like people. Don't talk so everyone's on the defensive. Try talking to someone and they go like wait. Where's what are you doing. Why are you approaching me. Wait a second half you want. If you want to meet me. It's gonna have to be on a dating app. That's the normal and there was. There was a little article about this woman from new york. Which is why. Bring up. Saying i came to san francisco. I sit down to the coffee shop. Read the paper and the so. I have a couple of things to say about that. It's not meekness of men. it's meekness of everyone. We're just stand offish to meeting new people. We were head down headphones in or walking my hairdresser tells me i need to look up when i'm walking. Because she seen me on the street up. We don't notice days. I could walk down the street and cannot recall. one person i looked at. I cannot recall what i want to get back at. Is this idea of dating in new york versus dating in san francisco in new york. People are literally living on top of each other. So you're forced to look up and talk to each other every day. That is why people in new york are probably a little bit more aggressive with a conversation or being taking that initiative here in san francisco you could go weeks without saying a word to someone new. You could just hang out with your friends right. You're not forced to talk to people in new york. You're going to be bumping into them on the street bombing to them in the subway so people are conditioned to talk to new people. Now i get why. The glimpse of new york is so awesome right now and actually our friend robert who was on season two finale to moved to new york for girl that he met. And they're you know it's it happens i get it. The problem is when i lived in new york. I felt that people were more addicted to dating than they are in san francisco. Because there's just so much so many more people and people are more dynamic there like you were saying right. There's so many more industries. The new york post interviewed me about this client. I was helping out who had three different girlfriends in three different boroughs model girlfriend. He finance girlfriend. He had an artist girlfriend because those are very diverse people and all three of them combined. You have an awesome dating life so people become very addicted to dating now. Have you guys thought about moving to new york. It's on my to do list. i just need. I have a lot of stuff. That i'm doing here in san francisco and when i finally get free i'm going to new york and i'm going through down that list. Here's a question. Do you think that maybe part of this is because you are dating remotely. What i'm getting at is do you think your behavior and approach when it comes to dating changes because you're in a different city because i know that if i'm on vacation i opened up. Tinder i have no qualms about messaging everyone and swiping right on everyone. Because what do. I have to lose. I don't fucking live there. i'm not gonna run into them on the street is there. A cisco is a little bit more. Tricky such a small community. You could end up running into these people. So do you think that maybe you just have all the time all the time right. You can't be a douchebag. Some girls are in some guys. You can't be an oh exactly. Yeah we're all each other's consequences but do you think that maybe you're just a little bit more. Courageous with daily remotely probably. Yeah definitely. there's there's there is a sense of he look. I don't actually have friends in common with this person. of that said most of my successful online dating ventures have been with people who have actually have a lot of friends in common with. So how'd you get to meet and maybe and just maybe you guys are the fresh blood because there is less of your type in new york that you are sort of refreshing for these women when you come up but maybe it's the novelty of it. We're talking about a couple of different things here if we want to talk about.
00:20:02 - 00:25:01
Hey i'm looking for a long term relationship. Something i think you'd have a better shot in new york if you're a guy but if we're talking about you're looking for a long term relationship you know it's not it'd be san francisco's not an impossible place date but when we're talking about looking for a quality relationship. I don't see that happening. Because the other from the europe it has their careers there but if they really did move here then they're trying to find something. That's a little bit different. But what i'm talking about really for this episode when i'm talking about all the dating in new york And same as nathan. I assume is that we're really talking about short-term dating so what are you looking for will new york. I'm looking for something short term. Insisted if i could find a beautiful girl. I wanna walk her down trying to get my friend kristy on the phone she. She lives in new york. She prefers a date in san francisco. And yes she's like. I like the fact. That guys in san francisco don't know what they're doing because it makes them less slick so that's that's an issue. She faces with a lot of new york. Men is that they know the right things to do right things to say but then they don't want to commit so she thinks san francisco men are just a little bit more honest with how clueless they are when it comes to dating. I mean i've never lived in new york. But i've definitely gone out there my share and i definitely get that slick five. Yeah because it's a finance guys you know what are some takeaways tomato flipside takeaway for the female. 'cause i actually think this is valid. Like i think that women should be checked out the competition in new york and see how they step up their game physically. I know for. I cared a lot more about fashion. When i lived on the east coast and that went out the window. That's got to be honest but there's some married of putting yourself together looking good and like doing stuff that new york women do and maybe women here should learn from that. But what can you guys learn from. Let's go back to this right. If you can't go to new york in the near future how can you transfer your daily experience. New york to san francisco silajdzic again due to the point in that here. I am looking more for something long-term right. Because i just don't have that available option in new york of dating a million beautiful girls. That's going to be really fun. A lot of women also complained. That san francisco is hard to a guy. That's willing to step wants to settle down as peter pan syndrome etc etc. Do we think it's a cop out to blame our cities. There's any girls complaining for any reason in san francisco dating dating. Then tell her to shut up. Hey actually no we have this conversation with. Its its people always say. The ratio isn't women's favor but they don't take into account no the number of gay men in the city. The number of men who are in open who are open to open relationships. I mean when you take those numbers into account the ratio really. Isn't that much still. If you add gay guys in their rations. Racial guys are gonna go up when i was talking about that ratio before those were single straight women to single straight guys and again. There's around. I think it was one point. Eight of i could send you a summary. Just because there's guys doesn't mean that's the type of guy you'd want. Maybe there's a lot of younger man for older women like there's this matches all the for sure. I think you just have to accept the city you live in because you chose to live here so you have to make the best of it. Of course vacation dating is always better because you have nothing to lose but when you're in your city you really have to think of ways to make it worthwhile for yourself and and every city will tell you. It's terrible dating in their city friends in chicago. I friends in la or a worst agency. Never my friends in philadelphia. Feel especially like this is the most terrible place to date. But i do like this idea of vacation dating in your hometown. How can you make. It seem more fresh. Maybe it's going on a new app. We want to refresh button on dating your hometown. So one of them is getting a new app. Like maybe it's going into a different neighborhood. We always hang on one neighborhood. Go different one going. Tenderloins actually lots of great bars in tenderloin and always a really diverse range of people who bertel heights. There you go. I really think there is a mismatch of singles. Who are dating in san francisco. Because i know tunnel women who are looking for long Serious relationships. I know ton of men who are looking for those relationships. Somehow these two groups never cross paths.
00:25:01 - 00:30:03
Why what is going on like why are. Why aren't these paths crossed. Or why aren't these. Two groups were on paper suitable for each other but on these apps not matching. Each city attracts the specific type of personality. People are attracted to new york because they want to play. That is a playground right. So you have the mentality of people who go there to play people. Come to san francisco to make money to succeed to push their careers forward to they do too. But it's it's the city of dreams but it's not the only thing that's attracting them there. People don't come to san francisco to party. I've never heard some say. I'm going to party it up in san francisco this weekend right. They come to they do come into to be different and in as a result of that. We're all the same in our in our thinking also unique that were different and not but the takeaway still for me is make the best of what you have and find ways to stand out if your girl try and if your guy trikes you've got to try listen if i spent five hours putting on my face and my hair and my nails and my you know whatever. I hope you'll spend that equal amount of energy on our date. Rightfully i definitely in san francisco gone out on dates where i was just like. I dressed up for this second dates. Third dates good. What what happened. You just came straight from the gym. Obviously you didn't care as much as i did. That's disappointing question of the day. This comes from orissa so near i've lived in. Sf for eight years now and it's been hard. I've been pretty much single the entire time. And it's been hard to find a guy that will commit and be who i want. I've been debating moving to denver. Do you think it's worth. Is it worth moving to another city for the prospect of man. I don't think you should ever move to any place for someone or the potential of someone. I you should move to denver. If you love the city of denver so like we were talking earlier. I would move to new york for maybe six months not not the winter and spring summer since gallery here but to me i feel like that's a very half asked way of doing things right. I tried that when i lived in new york. I was burnt out after seven years. Not stating seeing but career-wise as well. I moved to la for six months and the people. I was meeting in. La felt that. I was one foot in one foot out. People can sense that sort of energy. You're not fully invested. Yes going to a new city could give you a refresh. There is that piece. But i think most important. It's getting to the root of why is getting you down wherever you are because if you just bring that energy to the new city then probably nothing is gonna change absolutely. You can't run away you can't. It doesn't work like that so faced your issues. If you really need to change you get a change. I admittedly a wedded to my career. San francisco entrepreneur type. And that is takes up vast majority of my focus and energy. So and this is a falsity of myself. If you capture a significant interest. I will my energy will naturally divert elsewhere. Maybe the problem is the ratio or the pretty women of new york. But it's resetting your focus. I readily admit not by felt the highest priority if one looking at this differently so that's a question you should ask yourself at home. Are you ready to be in a relationship. What are you looking for before we end this conversation. I'll get a little bit personal with you guys. Because i i've met both of you and talked to interacted with both of you individually jake. The the the energy. I get from you when i speak to you or the first time i spoke to you i was like this guy is not serious. This guy is not about finding something real. Because every time i've spoken to you. It's always been about you dating multiple people right the multiple women that you've encountered you know. Maybe it's because of our interactions. Because i like to talk about dating. But i could very viably have some awesome girlfriends. I could set you up with. But i be super hesitant because i think this is not serious about dating superficial but if she is beautiful the than i will be serious and that is a statement of someone who's not ready to be relationship. I i actually disagree. I really do and that is because we'll if i think that.
00:30:04 - 00:32:27
Hey this is this is the top of the line you know. Then i'm going to become a lot more. You know emotionally. oh yeah. Let's get serious thing from the people. We've interviewed on this podcast. The people who are readily available to be relationships when they meet someone who is suited for them the first thing they say is not this person's beautiful they say we had this amazing connection. This person's amazing so they lead with something just a little bit less superficial so i think this could be debatable. We could talk about this all night. But that's just divide at least from a woman that i get from you when i have interactions with you. I don't see you as a one. I stand kind of guy. But i see you as a wandering i kinda guy what else is out there. Something better say settle with the woman who is who is not that could reasonably aesthetic questions. I mean the question is when you find that. Peak is really the people vs finally to so listeners. A home of you have any stories. And also i want to hear the female perspective. This are you a female. Who lives in san francisco but chooses to remotely in another city like l. a. Or austin we can anonymous your name we can change your voice we just love to have you as a guest on our show last but not least one to three days off your action. Item for this week is to vacation date in your own city instead of dating a local. Think about if you had a twenty four hour layover in your city. How would you approach dated. Where would you go. How would you meet new people. Would your attitude be like you may even discover a few new places in the you call home. The most efficient way to meet new people is a combination of online. And offline five hundred. Wrenches has your line covered. Connect over brunch with new friends. Come alone or bring a buddy. There's always a table of friendly faces mimosas. An eggs benedict sign up at five hundred branches dot com and use the code date able for free entry to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts.