Jena and Kat share their reactions to our most controversial episode yet, Empire Swipe of Mind from Season 4, with Jake back in the studio. They share their opinions about the male: female ratio, Jake’s emphasis on beauty, and meekness of men in the city. With Jake and his friend Tony in the discussion, we hear the perspectives of both sexes and discuss how to resolve some of the biggest frustrations when it comes to dating
S5E8 Empire (Swipe of Mind) Strikes Back
00:00:03 - 00:05:00
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches five hundred branches next like minded people with similar interests in real life. You answer a about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at brench spot in san francisco. Get a free entry into brench now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. And today we're going to get crock or already get gronk because we have jake back from our episode called empire. Swipe of mine. Where jake and nathan discuss their preferences for dating in new york versus san francisco. They felt like there were more women. In new york. There were more put together. They crafted well thought out messages and they were more aggressive. A big part of this is just. What san francisco is in the first place. And what types of people san francisco tracks now in new york. They're bunch of models they're a bunch of theater people. It attracts all sorts of really beautiful women who grew up and watching these different shows and they watch sex in the city. A big one. They wanna live that life in manhattan s. not the same as san francisco. If you can't san francisco you like work in tech your nerd for the most part and what kind of girls that attract You know not to say that there. Aren't that many beautiful that there aren't beautiful girls work in tech. But i think it's safe uniform. I only swipe right on the most beautiful once in new york. And i can't even afford to swipe right on the mediocre beautiful ones in san francisco that i may go on a date with here just because there's too many of them i can't i just can't talk. I have so many girls trying to message me. I can't even response autumn. Well since the aired we've had a lot of feedback from men and women who have very strong opinions about that episode of you. Well first of all jake high. It is pleasure to be back missed you. I don't know if you'll feel proud about this. But it was definitely one of our most controversial episodes to date that elicited. The surprise emphasis was controversial. At all i don't think so. Let's that you listen to that. So i listen to. And what were your thoughts on. I didn't think it was controversial. I think that It's pretty normal. I thought the viewpoints should be like that. So why do you think that at at elicited. Such a strong response from people. What do you think it could be. I don't know it's as boggles my mind. Really does i'll give you an example. We have someone million and say a quote to be honest. I almost could not make it through the episode empire. Swipe mind cringe-worthy to listen. To these asset guys fantasize about new york women parentheses models before having gone on a date with one mind you and generalizing sf women as most popular stereotype which is yoga. Pan wearing ultra feminist. Nothing wrong with that. By the way a male listener on twitter wrote wow they sounded super superficial. They're like if they're hot all date. Oh jeez and other female listeners said can i get the instagram. The guy who's only willing to settle for the best looking girl. He's gotta be like six to co part time model and time athlete. No male friend. Neil finally by is over a male friend personally wrote to me and said it was just cringe-worthy so i think i wanna give you an opportunity to talk about this before what else we're going to do with this. Episode is that we brought to women who also had strong reactions to ask so to come and explain to you why they had such strong reactions. So they're waiting in the wings right now but before we bring them in. I wanna hear from your side. Has anything changed since that recording. Like the way you think about dating in san francisco.
00:05:00 - 00:10:06
Not not the way that i think. I stopped the new york dating apps. I shall have stopped matching people in the new york dating. Because i just am too busy here and i i mean i was. I was telling girls that. Oh i'll be out you know. I'll meeting in a couple of weeks. Site is was able to get out there recap for listeners. Who may have not listened to the episode. You're basically doing remote swiping fry so i had. I had a list of a couple dozen. And i still do as i've listed a couple dozen girls that i mashed with new york and i kept them on his list so like when i went to new york. I'll just go down the list and you know date a couple every night. Maybe five six who knows how many can do at night for that listener. That wrote in the first the first one that you're talking about and she said oh they never even dated anybody in york well. That's not true. When i visited new york. I did go on a couple of days. You went on. I want to go. It's an there was one girl that actually flew to san francisco just to see me She was in a conference in san diego and she flew up here. She's like all the city and just to see me And get her. You know. I guess hook up because you couldn't do it in new york so I did go on a couple of days. When i was in new york. I just haven't been back to in york frequently because of business. Okay all right. That's fair so what about like you're dating status. Are you still dating or are you single. I'm single still dating. I will tell you. I'm toning it down a little bit because i've just been very busy doing stuff but You're still trying to find the best girl. Certainly if i find the best looking girl that would be good them suffering looking for that. We're going to bring these girls in. What do you think they're going to say to you. Who i was actually more thinking about how they're gonna look if they're going to be like i wasn't really not much has changed the house episode. You're still i'd say to me. I'm sure you know whatever. I mean this is. I'm excited. Whatever they wanna say in general we obviously want to hear from women because we've heard strong opinions for men and we also had a strong opinion on our season opener too. I think our goal of this is to hear from the strong women as well. But i think ultimately it's not meant as like an attack in either way it's meant to like resolve why. Both sexes are frustrated at having problems dating in the city. And what we can do about it. So it's right. And i i just i feel i do feel that too. Many people think that Will you call superficial. But i would say it's not really superficial just the way things are not superficial because it's are you hot are you attractive or your superficial. Won't things will resume this discussion with everyone all right. Let's bring in the ladies. The girls are here to say we have here. We have cat who has been in san francisco for eight years She's actually from the bay area so shoot you know. She knows his area very well and she's thirty three years old that we have jenna recently. Married congrats girl. She's gonna cisco for four years originally from oregon and she's thirty one years old ungenerous form because we ask our guest to talk about to write down. What is their purpose of coming on his podcast. She wrote confronting douchebag confronting douchebag news head on work and then we have someone from jake side. Who's a friend of jake's. His name is tony. Everyone tony buddy. Jake on everything and then tony. He's in his mid twenty s. He's been in san francisco for three years originally from the east coast. But not new york's and he moved to san francisco right after college so sort of has Dating experience has been what's been happening after college. So we're gonna get you first of all. Let's get to the women. What were your initial thoughts after. You heard jake's episode. What are my thoughts on. What makes someone beautiful to you. So what makes somebody beautiful. I would say it's both the inside and the outside but mostly that so when you are eight years old and you can't take care of yourself and you are shooting. Your pants does depends there for resent. What are you basing. Say you get married. What are you basing that on someone. Who looks appealing will there there. A couple hypothetical fallacies you in your question one is if i'm eight years all in pooping myself. I won't be eight years old with myself. Because i'm gonna be taking very care myself working out all the time. Great nutrition him. There's i've seen a lot of people over one hundred years old that still walk everywhere and do this.
00:10:06 - 00:15:00
I'm going to be very independent. second of all. There's nothing wrong with marrying a when you're when you're older marrying a girl that's younger so i i agree. My husband is eight years older than me. Totally agree author. However i guess my question to you. Jenna is that what is your. What are you trying to get at without question from his episode. What i got out of it a lot. I kept hearing. I want some beautiful. I want someone and that was it. Not i want a partner. I want someone who i can come home to and share and be vulnerable with and someone to share a life experiences with while. I'm not going to be vulnerable anywhere ever at all right. You're just going to be non human right maybe not saying. I'm sorry i now i am not. I am not going to come home first of all. It's kind of funny how you said that because coming home every night implied that i'd be working and then the woman would be a housewife feral. If you're awesome. Oh anyone coming home. I'm just saying okay all right so anyways i don't i'm not gonna come home every night and be vulnerable. What is that in a relationship you have to be. It's a give and take i. Maybe i'll be vulnerable every now and then if somebody dies or this that whatever happens but it's not like admonition of coming to be vulnerable. It's not like i'm coming like i'm gonna come home every night and be vulnerable. A real man's man is honorable. So would you going in a whole new look. I didn't even realize you. Were this type of guy i ought to take away from. It was kind of like when i was listening to you like okay here. You like yeah. Like people are agree. Like when i go to new york mike. There's way better looking people here. In general people themselves together they're more fashionable etc etc. And they know how to talk to people. Like i go to new york and i go anywhere and i get approached by men. Easley where here it's like. I don't remember the last time someone bobby. Drink grey zone. Although i've done that this is another example. These limit complain about guys that don't approach them or you guys don't buy them drink. And tony knows that. I've done a lot of that. I've approached a lotta women and nearly all of them all of them. Not all of them but nearly all of them will feel threatened or will not like that approach or not like me wanting to get your enough curious. How were you right aging them. I am pushing them very very very good. It's very good. Approach away. I would is. I think tony could. I think i'm agree. With is that i am approaching girls and talking to them and this and that well you are you are. I say you are very good at putting yourself out there. Like he definitely is happy to put himself you job out there. I agree with that. Puts himself out there But the few times. I've seen you approach girls two minutes later you're approaching another girl and to me. I wouldn't like that if you know if you were just talking to someone else two minutes optimization and that's called douchebag ary that often allows a douchebag not defines. The douchebag douchebag is not somebody you will go talk to one girl and then go talk to another girl five minutes later. It's not a douche bag douchebag our guys that be wise and do a lot of other of these bad things. There's a spectrum of line there. Yeah okay so can't euros another point. I'm like all right a here. You outright who like. I also like dating new york better too but i also think that it just depends on the type of person you are. Yes and what like. I'm outgoing person. I like to dress up. I like to go out I can have normal conversations with people. I'm not oxley awkward. And i don't like star wars playing magic at one or like that kind of thing. Where like. that's what's people like to do here. So i think it just depends on what type of person you are. And what city like fits you in terms of like the type of people that are there but now you're meeting jake in person what's surprising to you about him now wall. I didn't realize he was like i thought he. I mean making the comment.
00:15:00 - 00:20:04
Like i'm never going to be vulnerable because a real man isn't vulnerable and like whoa dads okay. That's a whole other. That's true that's true. That's i mean. I definitely think you're number one. That's an opinion. yes. And i'm not saying that. Never vulnerable what. I what i meant is we don't come home every day. And be vulnerable curl up in a ball and say blah blah blah. Somebody was making fun of me. But that's not phone ability to complaining so i wanna turn it over to the women again. What is it that burks you about some things jacobson. So i think the main thing for me that i wanted to be like. That's i haven't rebuttal right was when you're talking about the numbers game and then you spoke to part of it about late. There is a lot of game man and there are. There's a lot of straight men to you. Think that that that in the city there's more there's more straight men than straight women but if you took out all of the men who don't know how to talk to women or like anyone in general. I think that there's a lot more. Socially awkward nerdy introverted dudes in this city comparatively to women. And so when you take that into consideration late. I think that the ratio of men to women is more equal or even like lopsided in favor of and so. I think that to wake was saying he's like while i'm one of the few men in the city who actually approach women and talk to them so in theory he should be cleaning up in the city right now. Why do you think that's not happening. I do have a another theory on why that is. Because when i was sharing an apartment years ago i was living with younger girls who are like maybe five years younger than me and i would be like. I remember the days one inventor. Call me i wanna guys like. Call me on the phone. This is like how old school i am and those girls would be like. Oh my god freak out if a guy called me that would just be so weird. And i think that they also are not used to getting approached at bars because they're coming into their like adult life. That misses the norm. That people don't approach each other bars when they do get approach. They feel like that's strange. And there were when i was younger. Our normal to get hit on all the time. Right so yeah. I have to agree with that suit. extent is that i think on one hand women's say we say we want a certain way that men should approach us or be but on the other hand some of us are just not receptive to us so it kind of ruins it for the rest of us who actually wanted right. Can i say other comment. I think sleep by takeaways very similar agendas just the superficialness of this whole thing was irritated in my opinion. So i think it depends what you are saying when you approached them if you are like doing some like saying like oh. You're the hottest girl in this borrowing even if they are the hottest on the bar like a lot of people. Don't wanna hear that that's offense. It comes off in comes off idle idle. I don't do so. Why don't you approach. Women will adjust. I don't have a certain lot. It's not like gay dating game. Where i have this one certain line but you say something to them or do you just grind up on them like oh we have to go out more now. I will say something and started conversation. And then it's a lot of witty comments back and forth so your them in a wet you will our look. I would say. I would say. I'm i'm teasing them. A little bit Because all girls like to be so when you say okay. I'm naming address that wing you approach women and they're not receptive to your approach. What is your train of thought. Here are you thinking it's a women's fall or you're thinking maybe i should change my approach. Will i wouldn't even say they're not south of to approach they may be receptive but they may just may be something that they're just not used to and maybe they're nervous however i'll tell you what i'll bring up an example which just happens. I think two weeks ago ourselves. Goose tony's here Remember learning italian. So can back up what i'm saying. We were at a bar in the hate or the lower haight and we were walking down at street. We want into the bar. It was basically dumpty bar are three girls there. And i went up and we struck up a really good conversation. Really really good funny. Conversation was going very well is it was quite clear me and there was this one girl. That was very beautiful out. That beautiful is she was. She was interested in me was going very well and is that true.
00:20:04 - 00:25:01
Tony sounds and i'll like six drinks in an i not paying attention conversation. I believe it was it was it was going very well and i asked for the girls number. Hey let's go do something whatever you know. It was very like almost surprised. Or i would say maybe not. Maybe surprise not the word but she didn't almost didn't wanna give her number. You know so. I tried another way and g even even ask for my last name and i was like. Do you wanna have no facebook. That he's like oh no vala so they're kicking Of the bars to a young go out to the curb. we're talking them for a little bit more. And then i just all of a sudden. I'm like all right nice to meet you. Give them a hug. And then we were off down the street. And i go about a block away. Look back in those girls are still looking at me. And i tell those friends are talking to that girl and be like. Why don't you give him your number sound. It sounded like a girl that was very frustrated. You know and that girl is probably like well. I don't know you know. That's how girls are in san francisco but you don't know that for a fact right you could see because they're looking back at me and there are staying. That's spot like they were like. Who would come you guys. I mean okay. We because we weren't i don't know what you said of them. I i guess my point is the way you've spoken on this podcast the past one that stuff seeps through so if a woman heard that i could see why they may not be well i don't i'm first of all i don't exactly know what you mean by Seeps through or whatever. But i'm a first of all i am not any sort i think you you make me sound like i'm degrading to women or something. No it's just how i am and I would prefer a woman who is pretty and beautiful and attractive. And that's that that s she s again in the door from those things you know. What's interesting about your train of thought. Because i'm always interested in the psychology. What people say is that we say one thing and you take that to a whole other direction. We never said you were degrading to women. We said you show but then it was imply. I think you're taking it to that. I don't have any insecurities of that. Okay well i think we all know your opinion. I would love to hear more from the woman about just like your experience with men here and thoughts around that topic especially you john because you found a good man. You married him. You've found this man. What were some of your issues. I mean got i love dating here i did. I loved it. I in my experience i did have guys come up to me and talked me and buy me drinks. I had a guy sent me two bottles of champagne with my girlfriends and just gave him a. What's up and that was great. I it was positive for me dating. I think when you move from dating into looking for something real. That's when it becomes difficult. Because i think people overall the dating part is fun. The surface dating is fun here. It's the looking for something. More substantial is a little bit more difficult But i mean my experience as positive overall and then when you are trying to find someone you know who you want to settle down with. That's when it became harder will stakes go up in john. Yeah absolutely. i think that's anywhere. Just yeah it was. I would say that it's positive because there are a lot more guys and girls so you had all the attention and you're i guess outgoing and receptive to that tension. I wanna read something from the same girl that wrote in about this. She said i'm so sick of hearing about the men to women ratio in the city being talked about as an upper hand to women due to the numbers. I don't think these guys realize that while in new york. They're getting twice the models in girls in fashion to choose from week at twice the nerds. No offense like that. Stack the odds in our favor. I do okay. So i think this kinda takes it a little extreme there are whatever nerds or whatever you wanna call i personally love nerds so i think the odds are might favor for what i like but i think it's not. It's not so much like the attention if you talk to any girl and i wanna talk to you guys. It's not the attention. That's that great in the city because again of the ten guys in a room maybe one will approach girl and he gets all the girls at that bar so he's he's got inflated ego all of a sudden and the other nine guys were single are on tinder trying to match with all the other women in the bar. That's an issue. I don't know of you. Girls feel the same way. I guess for me. It's hard because i am outgoing. And if i see something.
00:25:01 - 00:30:06
I like i go after it so i. I don't know if it was. You were the other guy on the podcasts. He mentioned i mean. I will send someone a drink. Also i'm not weeding to have someone sent me a drink. 'cause i will definitely do that thousand but i guess the question is. Do you feel that. The ratio is in women's favor in in san francisco and disaster. Will you know not all takes place. Blondeau way for those reasons we discussed for the nerd factor number one and i think that there is this culture of not approaching and not talking to people in real life and that's not just men women to men and vote. It's i see a woman in my apartment building every day. Walking her dog. I see her every day. I lived three doors down for her. And i say hi to her. She never answers. Good morning she just stares at me she stares through me. I think that's definitely something that people comment just about. How like ingrain. We are on our phones and that whole thing. I think the other piece though. It's like not just. I mean the nerd and all that thing. It's like different different strokes for different folks like some women. I really liked that. So i don't really wanna fully comment on that. I think there's also an age disparity. There's a lot of like really young men that have come to the city because of engineering jobs. That are fresh outta college. You have your twenty something men. They'd be great but if you were like a thirty something woman you're not on the same page and it really has nothing to do with them as a person. It's more just like your life. It's like that. I think there's some but somewhat of a mismatch of people. I think it's like this assumption. That women in san francisco spoiled by the ratio. That men feel like. They don't really need to work that hard because there's so much competition that their dislike right. Whatever i can be more passive because women are so spoiled in the city and they're not looking for the show. Are you just want to go back to what was said about how the ratio is somehow not in the women's favor and san francisco we. I never said that it's at the ratio isn't are fever but that doesn't run or dating. That's what i mean like. There's a lot of whatever you call. There's a lot of earth a lot of people that won't approach me or whatever it is. I just find that fascinating ridiculous As a woman. I got tons and tons and tons of matches scoring not all of them are a lot of them. Were looking guys of course yet. So how can you even say okay. Girls raise your hand. Raise your head of this happen to you. You got fifty matches in one night and none of them to audio going alert. What's the conversion rate from match to actually speaking to you and then what's yet of them. I think the then you maybe worker. Maybe you're dating profile. Needed some work all women. Women i find this roy heart well. I confronted a lot. I converted a the point of this conversation was to hear from the women. So that's what we're gonna do. I mean i can't complain. Because i actually met my husband on a dating site. Yes which say j. Slight so i which you're on which it can happen. I think it's the idea is that it's not that hard for women in deeds for Yeah if if the amount of matches we got on apps actually translate in real life that will be a different story so the same girl wrote. That episode should have been called passive. Sf guys who would not approach you at a bar but would instead take out their phone to try match with you on an app. She said that episode been called. That which i completely agree with. We could get thousands of matches on our phones. these are called vanity swipes sometimes view. These guys and women do the same thing they just want to know. They can match with all these people right but do any of those turn into actual dates. The actual number zero point four percent won't be fair to do side like one thing is that like i feel like there are a lot of empty profile like that. Probably men and women. But i'm only female profile female profiles that and i mean you can't really a little bit difficult to start a conversation if you have literally nothing about the person except some few somewhat spotty. I disagree. I on the on the dating apps. I'll ask the girl for them grocer number at or sometimes they won't even respond or whatever i mean i just don't i don't think i don't think that's an issue. I think it is on women to i. Don't think it's just on men either a lot of women that don't respond or a little flaky. So it's not like this is one-sided russo that they're flake us because they have for the ponds and tons of other guys. We are literally saying the exact opposite. You're listening. I wanna talk about Men and women. The city have the exact same complaints about each other. Young men will say women are little passive and they're not receptive and women will say same things about why you think this is happening in.
00:30:06 - 00:35:02
How can we resolve. This issue are figures difference between like what people like and what they actually respond to. Well you know so like mean if you everybody for the most part except some complement if you will compliment but i mean it's not really something say somebody approaches you randomly at a bar and it's like saying this bad it's not really something you necessarily show comfortable responding to either like at a high level. I feel like people are gonna white something that they may not actually respond to in a way that social right so like as a result yeah survey they might enjoy compensation but nothing. That's gonna come out of a. I agree related. I think for me. I read this somewhere that it's like if women are men tried a little harder in women were a bit more understanding we would like to come to an equal points. I think there's a lot of merit there. Because like i've heard this one friend that literally like always gets either flaked on at the last minute of the guy doesn't set up concrete plans if he was just like. Hey we're gonna go this far on this date should be happy and she'll be more receptive to him so i think it's like when you feel that someone is putting the effort. The woman doesn't put in the effort. Either it's kind of like a vicious cycle. I mean. I know for me personally. Like i had an experience like with my ex boyfriend i remember. He canceled date on us. Like our second date and at first. I was obviously disappointed. At the way he communicated. It was really like. I'm really sorry like we're going to reschedule. All this stuff and then i didn't hear from him but at the same time i actually reached out and initiated it because i had gotten so many like positive reinforcement before that so i hadn't gotten that i probably would never reached out the reality to with that the reason why he was reaching out because he was desperately job searching in. It's like you're on day to someone you don't know everything that's going on so a lot of women will be like. Oh he didn't text be immediately like so. I think if women immensely communicated better and were more like understanding of where they were. We could kind of meet in the middle. Well i think in your example. Jake when that girl give you her phone number. I would like for her. I think we just need to give each other more feedback. I issue what had just been honest with you and said i'm just not comfortable giving my phone number. I think what you were talking about. Julius like sometimes we muddle our standards a little bit. You know we expect one thing but then we complain when about the same thing. It's like if it we hear it from some girlfriends like oh. He confirmed the date thirty minutes before it was supposed to happen. I still went on the date and then you complain that he confirmed thirty minutes before the date. So it's kinda like that conflicts it up for the next girl. He dates to because he got away with it with you. So we gotta step it up women and saved no. That's not okay with me. But also have enough empathy to note to empathize with people with what's going on their lives. I wonder kind of There's no way of knowing what percent of times that guy may be texting like half an hour before date you know. It's very a at least as far as texting considered how many times vats because of some sort of being considered because of something going on like as you mentioned about Your second date. Like i feel like it's really hard to like. It's hard to make that actionable when you have a circumstance where you're gonna be so many things going on as i why they were but it's not so much what's going on. The actionable point is you should ask. If it doesn't make you feel good if someone confirms a date thirty minutes beforehand and it doesn't make me feel good. I should ask like what was happening. That i didn't like the way that was handled. Can we talk about it. And maybe that's when it comes out you know he was like had a crazy day in forgot about it. Or that's when you come across as crazy that is so true that anytime you try to communicate how you actually think feel. It's like okay. You're crazy because i'm giving my opinion and trying to make some situation better there was also a whole other. Talk comes down to like the way you communicate it to like if think for men and women because i think women are just as flaky as men on either direction like bats that example having to cancel a date like if you reach out in the morning and sam so sorry i have to do this. It's so different than like ten minutes before dislike either not even reaching out or like giving like a half ass reason at that point so i think so much of it comes down to what you say not what's happening. It's how you approach the situation if you say. I was really looking forward to seeing a and didn't confirm to thirty ahead of time. I was so disappointed. That's way different than being like. Where the fuck were you thirty minutes before the date and you made me wait and i was like you know all dolled up like.
00:35:02 - 00:40:00
That's a different approach. So i think we should just be able to communicate but communicate with empathy and also with respect for each other. But i want to bring this back to what jake's episode was originally about. Which was he prefers a day in new york versus san francisco. My girlfriends and my guy friends in new york face the exact same issues that we do in san francisco. People are flaky. People don't approach each other. Of course new york. People are a little bit more aggressive. Why because you live on top of each other. There's no way you can escape people in new york. That's why when you go downstairs to take out your trash you're most likely going to say hi to someone. But in san francisco you could go three blocks without seeing one person. So i i think it's the nature of it's not so much dating scene as the nature of the environment with that city is built like but do you guys think that there is something innately wrong with san francisco. That's making dating difficult. I personally i've been here for a while. And i'm seeing the city change pre-tax or it's always been someone attack by infiltration of tech. Scene has definitely changed the type of people that live here. And i think that a lot of the diversity and tech diverse. I'm not saying race or whatever. I'm talking about mindset diversity on all of the creative people aren't as musicians people doing things that are not working at a tech company. They're few and far between and so with that. There's people who are. Engineers are certain types of minds right and so those people. They're more introverted. They don't go out as much. The bars are closing earlier. They're less people out. That's like makes it harder to like meet someone in real life. I think on the flip side. You've a lot more people dating online. Which is i mean. I think it's a good thing. But then you create this problem of wall. You're not actually talking to each other. you've never really met. So how can you really communicate because you're crazy if you're being like right up front up front and you've never even met the person right. He don't know someone's tone and whatnot. Yeah and you go. i go for like all. I've never met you. Why am i voting. Time to something that i don't even know who could be could be a waste of time right back to dating in san francisco. I think in the first episode you touched on. People are very focused on their careers. Hear writing and i think that also m st- it being very difficult to because like you want to go on a first date you want it to be special. You i mean women are me. I don't know about every woman every man. But i want to be special. I want to new dress and get excited and put lipstick on and you know. That's what i'm looking for and i want to be wined and dined and have that experience of a first date in connection and spark while if you're working twelve hours a day and you wake up at five in the morning to go to the gym that's not possible. I mean you are physically and mentally exhausted and when you get home from work the last thing you want to do is change her clothes and put on somewhat stack and go anywhere because you're exhausted. Not on top of that. A lot of people work here who have fully stocked kitchens. Which you're eating the entire day. You only go out to eat dinner. You just eat with your coworkers twenty minutes ago. I mean there's so many of these things that don't lend itself to dating and then on the weekends you want to see your friends or you want to literally sit on your couch underwear and you don't want to like you don't want well. I think that's the thing Complained that dating is it takes too much effort and they wanted to blend seamlessly into their lives but it is effort in an effort it has to be in relationship. It is effort to date. It is effort to be married. I mean but i also think you have to find the person who you want but the effort right. I heard this quote from someone on. I'm going to butcher it. And i don't know who said it. I think it was a rapper. Yes it was. It was basically like women. Any guy who comes along could be the right guy for men or it's the right time for any guy or something but for men it's only the right woman when it's the right time agree. The timing for dudes is timing is huge general but for guys is like they have to have to be making money after their current order because if not it all for fun. There's no seriousness about it. So you meet a guy. And he's not in place in his career like italy while not even worth it.
00:40:00 - 00:45:05
Because you're not already not going to write that. I think too. I think the i look at dating. And maybe this is an issue with you guys. Is i look in dating. Not like oh. I'm looking to meet my future wife and hey i'm just looking at half of the men and women will get story tonight conniving to go from the very first time you meet somebody to think. Oh is he going to be a good husband. Oh is he vulnerable enough psyching. Nikola him latin. I'm giving you would say so. Depends on what you're looking what you're looking for and if you're just looking to fun meeting people and date and not being a serious relationship that's different than if you're really looking to meet someone like you said you had a lot of fun dating when it's all about just like having a good time when you're actually trying to meet someone who's yup could potentially that you could be in a relationship wise than you know that any guy is non a place in his career where he feels comfortable and secure his manhood quote unquote that he's not gonna be ready to be in a relationship and dacas back to. There's a bunch of young younger guys are who are here for work hip to get their career off the ground so there could be like that disparity guys are. You know who aren't young. Who are ceos and have their own companies literally. All they do is work right. And that's but i am guarantee that happens in new york city where someone's trying to find themselves. I think the reality is though like people find people you're buried. You're a relationship. We've all been in relationships like what are some positive ways that we can look at this hour. What's been vice that we can give to people that are frustrated or not nurses are most we talked about this on. Our podcast is really know what you're looking for. I think some of us are like. I want a relationship but do you. I want to be in a serious committed thing but do you. Are you ready for that. And also if you are looking for that if you're looking for a series relationship why are you approaching people who are straight out of college or why are you going for people who are not in a place to date is. Isn't that saying something about yourself. I've really what i take from. This conversation is men and women have the exact same complaints about each other. So that must mean. We're all doing the same thing to each other. So before we complain about someone else flaking on you or not being series about you maybe you should reflect and think about. Did i do that to joe. I disagree about this whole. Hey on ready to be in a relationship now. Here's a setting where it's like. Oh i'm ready. If i ve acres. And i said to my first point or will i am very open minded and i would consider that any point. I'm going to be only someone's the young girl beautiful. Isn't it beautiful. The blanket word that use but the truth is that yes. It's both outside and inside the counts a lot of esa do that outside and some of it. Also do you could meet someone beautiful and you could see them walking down the street. Do you like dogs. I like dogs. Don kicker they might be no i but you didn't listen to what i said. I said a lot of the outside some of the insights you only you will get it right and i and yes if there is a very beautiful woman who happens to be very evil or whatever. It is or kicks dogs and no. I'm not gonna date her. How would you know. I would assume out find out in time and we go player but i the way you were talking about. This jake is okay. This is what irks me. I'm trying to be neutral in this but this is what irks me. Is that when on ready for relationship. I'm open to it. I'm still waiting for that right girl. That beautiful girl to come along. But what are you doing to yourself to make yourself dateable. what are you doing. I'm doing a lot i'm going. I'm going jim every day. God that's going to be great boyfriend. I going to. Yeah that's true. It's when it's not true. Dating if i if i have really if i have a really high f- i have a really hot shirtless photo on the dating apps and i'm going to get some more matches. It's just the fact that doesn't mean that you're ready for a relationship. I mean how long ago you what are you doing to make yourself dateable as a boyfriend as a relationship guy boyfriend material was i'm already.
00:45:06 - 00:50:02
I'm already boyfriend material. How are you boyfriend material. You're going to the gym. You're there's there's two different things one is how you making yourself more dateable. And for example you're getting professional photos taken off you you are. Eating right knew a lot of nutrition to make yourself look better. You know you're getting enough sleep whatever and then there's a are you making yourself a positive person in relationship with. I think that answer for me has always been yes. Not just now but always. How are you doing self-reflection. Are you going to therapy. Argue asking iran's for their of course style asking of course asking if france. Actually something considering you mentioned meditation and I don't really. Tony started meditation. And i spoke to yesterday about. That really sounds interesting. I'd love to do that. Offer is sounds cool. I'm also doing acupuncture. I'm doing yoga every week. I'm doing all sorts of women would really really enjoy russia. Chip this is. This is the thing that. I wanna talk about tony here because the difference between you tony. It's like night and day. I wouldn't i wouldn't say that. Uh the main difference between you two is this word called authenticity. I give this sense of from tony. Because he's very key comes from a very humble place. this is who he is. He comes from his questions. Are from this place of learning about this from this place of. I want to know more about this. Jake you come from a place of close mindedness. You've already made up your opinion about people. You've already made up your opinion about how this world works and you're here to teach us your way. I would say that there is no growth. No right. I grow all the time everyday. I learn something new going to the gym. And every time. Every time i go to supermarket i get a new some sort of new food. Does everybody else do that. I almost feel like he's for training. Some sort of character. He can't be like the time right. The thing is a j. I think jake does try to play a certain character but your question was can track value. So you're the some of your closest five friends right so for to have a friend like you makes me think he's not exactly who he is right now. I mean you can tell okay so if you have a conversation with jake one you can tell when he's being tongue in cheek when not if you can if you get if you know who he is and you know that certain things are just away. He likes to phrase things. More than i think. But i will say that i tend to be somebody who can go just fine with people. I disagree with and this tolerant So he's being very politically correct on his podcast. Which is i am astonished because he fake name. He's my you might as well as use his real name because he's not saying anything that's controversial but really his. you know. i think that what i think. All women are missing is a lot of guys. Think the way that. I'm thinking right on all them and they will not want to openly admittedly say that and tony he looked. You're using a fake name. I've heard a lot of similar thoughts. Government that are very authentic. Thanks matt isn't as i want to challenge our male. If you do feel the same way as jake let us know. I mean i. I want to know if men truly feel this way. And they're just not voicing their feeling so repressed and they're not voicing their opinions. I really liked to know i would also challenge women. Do you know how hard it was. So maybe wrote in about jake's episode but some of you refuse to come on the show and we had to get two of our friends who had strong opinions. Why is that. I want to know why we're not getting these strong female voices on the show that we should i write. We want to say no because they know when they get to meet me than there are than. It's not gonna put up a fight. They can't actually substantiate what they're trying to say. I want to hear of. That's the truth when i will have. Perhaps it were or perhaps they're worried that i'm actually are gonna really fall for me. I think that's non here. Mary so i wasn't married. I think i actually think that mean you get along if you are married and also face the same same couple years ago. I'm pretty sure that you get along with a couple of years ago or seven. Because i was insecure.
00:50:02 - 00:55:02
I was chubby. I had no idea what i love your show. But if you and that's why i think by takeaway is you'll get what you put out there. Yes oh god bless you. I hope you find a woman who you go back. That's what he's looking for. You're not looking for a serious relief. I am looking i e relationship if the right type of woman comes along and one of those qualifications she has to be pretty because i have to be physically track. Active visit look trash. Stop stop. I just can't do it anymore. Wrap this done so done with this. Okay so let's talk about. What can we do personally to make dating better. If we're having the same complaints about each other so my biggest takeaway is if you hold the same standards for other people. You should hold the same standards for yourself. If you're complaining about something that someone else did make sure you don't do that to someone else any other takeaways. How can we improve dating from us starting from yourself. I think i am talking to people in real life. Because i think i'm guilty of this to you where i am either. Like offering more out on the street. I'm off or like an aggressor and i'm not paying attention and i'm like in my own. Were all trades though maybe just being more present in where you are and talking to people in your every day i mean for me that would be yep. I agree that it'd be nice for women to hit on me because they don't see. I'm reading on madame saying be like a have conversations not just talk to people deploy agree. I'm just saying that. I agree you to and it's what you would do. Not what else would do i mean. I put a lot of work into myself I was talking to a therapist. I was talking to like a life coach. I was doing so many things to get myself into a healthy mindset to be in a loving relationship not only with a person both myself. And so i mean i think. I don't think necessarily you need to talk to talk to life coach. But maybe you know if there's a friend you've been talked to or someone that can really let down your walls and be like this is why i keep doing this with this person or whatever it is and being able to see that and recognize that and kind of grow from that and not repeat the same patterns in your everyday life. I think that's really important. Yup putting in the south work. I would have to go with a hybrid of those two. Sorry not to be under Sorry to not be original. But i had the exact like i keep saying. I want someone to talk to me in real life. And i literally had a guy come up to be start talking and a salad blond and i like rose so it's like i keep saying i want this but i need to put it back out there so i think i'm also guilty sometimes. Oh wire men messaging more. But then i have messaging me and i'm ignoring them and yet to be conscious of what i want. What's out there. And then ice second. The south work. I've been doing a lot of that lately. And i really truly believe. That's like some important get you there. Let's go to tony jake. Last i think i still apparently been doing certain things to improve myself therapies. One thing try. I think to be honest. A part of me feels like a way to improve. My long-term dating is to have the time to for my own interests in in that kind of to me i'm thinking involves may be dating a little less right now because like i mean you're dating like if you have i guess like people in the city and i have huge career goals pretty ambitious but also have you know goals as far as to get better at things i want to try out and some of that i feel like i wonder if there's a phrase i think that abraham lincoln said where it's like. Give me six hours to cut down a tree. And i'll spend the first four sharpening vieques like progress doesn't always look like progress and like that and and it's something where i feel like in my personal life. I wonder if i getting where. I wanna be with a serious relationship. I sometimes think that maybe if we do that would be data less. But i don't date to three times a week. Which takes up my. You're also early twenties right or twenty mid twenties. But so i think that makes sense for your stage of life till i get yourself and like what we were talking about like getting all of that taken care of so you can be at that point. Yeah i think what you said mason. We alive dating.
00:55:02 - 01:00:02
that's millennia. Yes been love more than okay. I'm gonna give you a chance to show some humility here. What is something you think you can improve improve pont in yourself to make dating better to make dating better for me. I was really thinking about this to me. Deem better for me. Everyone everyone everyone ago asked me okay. All right daily yourself. I mean hey i need probably go out a little bit more. Even though i already go out i think i need to go out more uneven approach more women and i think that's one important thing and that's that would actually be for everyone because the best for other women to be approached by me. I mean i haven't followed up with a couple of girls you know so perhaps i need to refinance with them and maybe they weren't ten atta tents but maybe i should entertain them and see how it goes. Just you know just to see so for our female listeners. If you like to be set up with j you can definitely you're gonna we're gonna ford your emails onto him but honestly what what you want jake to hear. We want you to write in and we will ford on your message to him. It would help for jake chew. See these messages. Let's not repress our opinions. I think we need to. We need to but in a very objective way so we don't want to attack. But i think we should come from a place of of humble and love okay and i would love to hear of other men have the same view. They do absolutely shocking and clean out there. People that we know and i was talking to. I would love to hear from those men we want. We're going to keep an open mind and hear from you. Want to be set up with tony. I also email in. I can attest. Tony's actually very good the I would recommend ken. So jets taken on chats about to set out on a really interesting journey. So cat's been in san francisco for wild. She decided that she's going to travel the world before the world as a single looking so we ask cat to document her her dating around the world for us a lookout for that series coming up very soon. But kat kind of has the same sentiment as some people where she's like sick of dating in san francisco so the kind of theory is is it san francisco or is it universal for all cities because of modern dating. We won't know till she sets out on her first date. I will let you know. Oh let us know. where's your first. Stop her sample. Well actually is new york okay. I town that were excited to hear exciting forward. Some dates cut. I think a lot of times. Hypothetically the grass is always greener will be really interesting yet. Guess what the actual. What's actually happening out there in the world sweet okay. I'm going to wrap this up. I i think we had a really great discussion. I don't know we made any leeway with jake but that's okay i think he's still a work in progress and less just all hope for the best for him. Yes if you want to be a guest on our show please write in. We would love to have you as a guest. We can anonymous to protect your identity like we have today which is probably a good thing for you with point. Okay on that note. Stay your action. Item for this week is to not take things too personally. When it comes to dating there will be some people that you won't see. I i with and that's okay. They're just not suitable for you. You can't change people. You could only change yourself. You also can't force your views on someone. The goal on these dates is to ask the right questions to make sure your values and beliefs align and you know say. There's a lid for every pot. So no there's someone who is a fit for you in for that person. You may not see eye-to-eye width. There's someone out there for them to and it's not you if you didn't know already. In our off season we launched a premium series called the wise series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We've had some great feedback on. How actionable these episodes are so. Check it out on our website under the tab why series or you can help by directly from music. The most efficient way to meet new people is a combination of online and offline five hundred branches has your offline covered connect over brunch with new friends. Come alone or bring a buddy. There's always a table full of friendly faces.
01:00:02 - 01:00:20
Moses an eggs benedict sign up at five hundred branches dot com and use the code date able for a free entry to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts.