John Graham from the Bachelor in Paradise and the Bachelorette tells us what it’s like to date on reality TV.. We talk about what really happens behind the scenes, life dating before the show, and what to learn (or ignore) about dating from the experience.
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Season 7 Episode 19 Venmo John Tells All
00:00:00 - 00:05:14
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
The dateable podcast features real stories from real people of how they make modern dating work or not your host you a former dating coach turned dating Insider boss will on each episode. You'll hear commentary from my producer Julie kraftchick and other surprised co-hosts. This episode of datable is brought to you by 500 brunches 500 brunches connect like-minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a quick question are about your interest and how you spend your time and then they'll match you in small groups of six to eight at a brunch spot in San Francisco get a free entry in 2 a brunch Now by signing up at five hundred branches and using the code date able. Everyone welcome to another episode of datable a show all about modern dating one of the shows that I've been obsessed with for like the last twenty years. I feel like is the bachelor franchise. I started watching Trisha where she was an initial Bachelorette all the way now to Becca's season and one of the most standout contesting Rebecca season, this guy named John Graham. Do you guys remember him venmo John? I'm sure he lives in San Francisco and he's with us right now when we found out that we've had I guess two degrees of separation. I knew I had to reach out and see if if John isn't interested in being on our show, but also Julie and I know a few people who've been wanting to be on The Bachelorette move applied pretty much every season who've audition have never gotten on so we want to know some of your secrets to okay? Yeah. First of all, thank God. For having me here. I think this is pretty awesome opportunity to come hang with you guys. And I've always liked the stories you guys are able to tell through this as someone who is dating in the modern world. So it's it's scary place out there and also really is especially in San Francisco, especially the same Cisco but also reality T shows really kind of skews our reality right? I'm not how you should be how you fall in love with someone and what three weeks what happened super fast as you get engaged. Okay. How is that supposed to make us feel good about dating just a little background about jobs. If you don't if you don't follow the show, he's twenty-nine years old. He's been to San Francisco for almost three years. So you and I are the same originally from Chicago then New York for nine years. I think we overlapped in New York and I'm pretty single but have been taking a dating sabbatical gotta get to the bottom of this. She was on the most recent season of The Bachelorette and then he went on to Bachelor in Paradise, which wage If you don't ever watch The Bachelor or or The Bachelorette just watch Bachelor in Paradise. Okay, it's like a combination of like selling you romance and trash at the same time, but they you get really connected and you get really invested in the characters on the show and John was such a refreshing person to have on the show this season because he's unlike anybody else. I don't know. I don't know other people have told you that everybody else is they're they're kind of like Broly. Yeah, Julie like have you seen Bachelor in Paradise? I have. Steve is right, right. Yeah God Broly of the Bro. Yes. Well when I doing some research, I saw that you were sad to be one of the most eligible bachelors on The Bachelor because of Just The Stereotype of other folks. I think Chris Harrison he had some nice words to say for me when he was announcing the cast members for Becca's season. Yeah, and he's like, oh, he's John's in Tech Guy John's involved in Silicon Valley and all this stuff. And so I thought People are really like that back story behind it to yeah, you have a great back story before we get to what your life was like before The Bachelorette. Okay, let's just talk about the show. Cuz we you know, you want to know what was the the entire experience like starting with the audition process. How did you even think about being on the show? Yeah, so it hadn't really crossed my mind to be on the show, but my good friend and his wife. They love the show and watch every season all paradise and they have told me for a while like you'd be a really good candidate you should apply and so I kind of laugh it off like yeah, that sounds fun. But as I do they do I really want to be on that. What is my family going to think which is what every single applicant things interesting and then his wife like emailed me as I could. Here's the link to sign to apply online. Here's the Box. You got a ride say you gotta write an essay have to physically print it out photos and then my friend actually did a video interview of me. So he stood behind the camera and would suck. Questions and then another buddy like chopped up until like almost like a little mini Bachelor interview style and it was standard questions. Like I tell me about yourself. What are you looking for in a partner? What do you do for fun age? Are you single? Why are you single and so a few weeks later? Some of the casting agents messaged me on Instagram cuz I was smart enough to forget my phone number and email address off famous a really 100 that I paid.
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You want to come down to La for an interview and they do you know, the background checks they do they do medical tests. They do a Hostess page test. They do a host of things and you get to meet some of the producers and and folks there and then I think we actually started filming a few weeks later. So my whole process wow, really fast, once you're in it's like off mine happened to me super late in the process, but other guys had been had been applying are they been the pipeline for months or nine months or so for lunch? We have you watched any of the previous Seasons before 9 a.m. Really? I've seen a couple episodes here and there, you know Becca I didn't know back. I didn't even know it was going to be back until it's announced publicly. So they they don't tell us either and then a few days after they announced Becca a bring us on into LA to basically begin filming and that whole process that you know, that first night when you come out of the limo, that's all real like I didn't meet any of the other guys until I like getting in the limo and I'm like Oh Hey Joe. Nice to meet you too, Jordan. Hey, I'm John, What's up? How did you feel about the venmo John? Nickname? It's fine. I mean, I've got nothing against it. I mean like it, it's cool. Yeah, but I don't know why your nickname is venmo John. Yeah. So I was one of the first employees at venmo and I made the iPhone app and venmo and like when was a really big boss me. It's like a baby that I helped grown help build for a long time and now I don't work at venmo anymore, but I think people like that story because I like mentioned venmo once on the show. Yeah. Yep. Right. Yeah, you know, it's like venmo Josh. Yeah. So with venmo we did some ads in the New York subways and that was really cool to see them get to see them in person. I don't know when they're being taken down but oh I got see a lot of pictures of them and we did like this really fun photo shoot. So that was awesome. Demo is a big part of all of us. That is true. It's music to my ears. What's just for someone that isn't as Avid Watchers others will help you. I'm sorry. What is the biggest difference between Bachelorette and Bachelor and Bachelor in Paradise? Okay, I guess there's similarities and differences the difference like just the obvious difference is that there's an even number of men and women for the most part. So there's no agenda of what you have to do. You don't have to go on these group days, you know, it's like being like segregated at the Mansion for the day. You just like hang out who you want to hang out with and see where there's connection. So there's more natural. Yeah, so there's roughly like ten men and ten women they off balance it a little bit but you go hang out with forever. Yep. And if you have find a connection with somebody pursue it and if like you decide there's no connection go to somebody else or just hang out with your buddies. And so there's like a solid mix of everything but there is a rose ceremony where every week they switch off and on the men have the power to vote for the women. Okay, and the women have power to vote for the man. Okay. So people do get kicked off. There's still some of that games. There's a little bit of beautification off. So you kind of want a couple off right away. That's when you know, you're safe. If you haven't found a connection with somebody then you have no idea if you're going to get a rose at that Rose ceremony. So either you can yeah, like if I'm if I'm like I'm dating somebody that I can feel pretty confident that she's going to want me there for the next week. If not, then like maybe a friend will be like, hey I Think You're great and I want you to be here. Like that's how I stayed for the first row ceremony. That was my friend. Angela's like you deserve to be here and I work awesome friends. I'm like heck. Yeah. Thank you Angela and you know, we're going to do a Facebook live later. I'm going to share these photos with you later, but I snuck in dog. That Resort where you guys films Bachelor in Paradise with my then-boyfriend and he was a big fan too. So we snuck on the resort, you know, pretending that we're going to go look at some rooms pasta sauce, but I wanted to see what is really like first of all there wasn't much AC around not married is really know exactly see some of the like camera interview rooms for the equipment encourages the cast members to be out the entire time. Yeah, and also you're just like trying to cool off. So you're going into the water a lot to write. Oh, yeah, you can jump in the water. There's a pool. There's like drinks and cold drinks. If you want to go get them whenever you want. They encourage you to say very hydrated. Yeah, if it like art like how scripted vs. Unscripted are things. It's not scripted. They don't make you do or say anything during the interviews while you're on the show. They just wash should open up and talk about your feelings cuz at the end of the day people come for the drama, but they stay for the love. So the producers are encouraged to find matches in the real world because you can see like birth. There is Kevin and Astrid for example, they are now dating in the real world and people like that storage Park you look at Chris and Krystal they survived from Bachelor in Paradise and they're now engaged and they're just having all that but you seem like they're just like I don't know an amazing and put on a couple fine.
00:10:03 - 00:15:10
And so the producers want you to open up and like see where they're maybe feelings for other people and just like talk about it. And so they they do script anything. They don't make you do anything but they might encourage you to like go talk to somebody and hash out. What might be there. Well what I really enjoy about a Bachelor in Paradise is that it shows you a different song of the contestants because for The Bachelor or The Bachelorette you only see kind of like 2 seconds someone's about because they have to profile all the contestants shape. So all the cast members on Bachelor in Paradise, you get to see a different side of them and they actually bring down some villains from the previous seasons and they become these like softies or you know romantic at heart and you don't really see that job. Out of them, which is a good segue into John because I felt like you were completely different on Bachelor in Paradise all the bachelorette Becca kept saying job very nice. Oh, yeah. That's the worst compliment you can ever had is going is nice. We actually just did an episode I realized yeah, I never want to be in the next page very nice. There was like this very athletic competition kind of thing. It was like you guys had to be very Master Lumberjack Lumberjack. Yeah, and everyone was surprised that John was not able to really challenge some of the other bro organized in some of the competition especially back up cuz she's like I didn't see this coming at all. So you started to come out of your shell, but then before you could fully come out of your shell you were eliminated. Yeah that your 5 episode. I remember I remember having somebody interviews with the producers about this too and I was like, you know, I've come in so intimidated I'm off. Around and I see everybody as like is anyone not in the NFL here that is either under football players and everyone's huge. I was like truly one of the shortest like least muscular thighs on Becca's season and like dang these guys are some freak athletes, but I'm here what the hell let me go like try stuff and put myself out there and that's when I really opened up among the other guys. That's when I open up with Becca home by then. She had built a much stronger connection with the other guys. And so she ended up choosing them and with back at 2. I felt like we had a better friendship Vibe anyway, so I remember like you could definitely have some feeling of jealousy when you see Becca going out some other dates, but guys would come back from a databank. Oh, how was your date man? You tell me all about it cuz I never felt like Becca was the person for me. So I never had those feelings of jealousy cuz it didn't bother me take see her cuz I felt like we were like better as friends anyway, so no hard feelings to kind absolutely not and like it's interesting you say that about the physicality of the other men because you are tall dog. Are extremely buff if you don't know a John looks like you need a Google some topless photos of him. And whoever you are just go on the internet right now, but it's interesting that you had insecurities, even though you are in top shape and you are tall. Of course. I think I also probably carried with me some insecurities that I grew up with. So I was yeah, that's funny Bachelor. Like I used to be super chubby and was picked on as a kid and I was embarrassed. I'm half-chinese and I was embarrassed about sort of my background because it was like a pretty white neighborhood where I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and I would like just always play the comparison game and when you know as a kid, you're growing up what you all you want to do is like be cool and fit in and I felt like I couldn't fit in and so this is just like jogging a bunch of those memories back that I felt like as a kid and I know I'm like in fine shape now. I know I'm healthy and everything's like, you know on paper doing just fine for me but dead. We'll never said anything to me know whenever like put me down or but I I had a bunch of those insecurities coming in which is part of what made me so quiet on The Bachelorette, but then I finally was like, you know fucking I'm here Thursday. I got eliminated cycle. All right, maybe I can have some Redemption for paradise. And so I told Chris Harrison to I remember I shook his hand. I'm like, yeah, I just want to put myself out there. I really want to go meet everybody with no inhibitions and see what's there. So I remember going to like basically using all of my free time to go like chat with the women not with any expectations of what could happen. But just like let me reach out let to know you and see what's there and some of the guys were timid some of the guys were just like trying to get drinks or hang by the pool or chill with the other guys and I'm like no I'm like, I want to go meet everybody like I'm on the beach like this doesn't happen often transformation was incredible. I need just some of the reality T websites that would you know, talk about episode be like where the hell did John come from birth? Warming up, it's warming. Yeah warmed up on The Bachelorette and on Bachelor in Paradise. You were like, I'm here for a reason. I'm going to talk to all these girls and I'm going to kiss all of them. You were The Kissing Bandit 600 all the women was so interesting as they do like the you know, the post date interviews and all the women were like, I didn't know what to expect of John going into this but I really like him he's pretty aggressive.
00:15:12 - 00:20:05
So that's a good segue to aggressive. That's a good segue to what your dating life was like before the show. Sure. So dating before the show when I moved Francisco, I was using some dating apps like the league or Bumble or whatever and with like moderate success. I got be able to get a date here there it was fine, but I never felt like I really found like my life person. I was in a short relationship beginning of 2016 for a few months and I was like man, this is awesome. This is like, I feel like it was really going in the right direction and they're dead. Ended super up abruptly and I was like, I was pretty bummed about it to be honest. Like I felt like I was pretty excited about it, but we were just on very different levels. How long did that last resort? Not not that long like a ring realm of like months. Okay, but still singing a few months for you for me. I got pretty into it pretty quickly. And I don't think she was there gotcha and I kind of retreated away from dating after that. I remember talking with some friends and talk to my family and I'm like, I just don't feel like my head is there I don't even like my heart's there like me trying to meet new people. So like super retreated away from trying to meet anybody and I just wanted to spend time with myself and focus on myself and I remember like they're things that I've always wanted to do. I find with free time. I could finally do it's like I went on Amazon Prime and I bought the cheapest guitar that I could find cuz I've always wanted to learn as much as I like I did that and I like been playing guitar pretty regularly since and yeah, I I joined a volleyball team cuz I felt like I just needed more extracurriculars and I played in high school and college authors. I did was I got cuz I had more free time. Now as I I want to go like see old people cuz I like I don't know like my four grandparents passed away within the past few years. And as I I don't know it's kind of weird to say but I was like, I feel like I missed that point in my life. And so I found this volunteering organization. I could just like brothers. Yeah, a little brother's friends of the elderly and I got mashed with this awesome woman Leah and so I just hang out there on weekends and I I took her to see Blue Angels yesterday, So this is all happening pre this one day before Bachelorette before batch or whatever was a thing as I just wanted like focus on myself and I wasn't trying to go on dates and I almost had to like rebuild myself and find myself before I could be able to bring myself to a relationship. And so by the time I was felt like I was really there to be in a relationship again. My friends were like really encouraging me to be on The Bachelorette at this point. I was like, yeah, what the hell like I've got nothing to lose. But yeah, I'm a little nervous. My my parents definitely don't want me to do this whatever my age of ten. You're like confidence Young. Was not so great because you were different and happier as a child. How was it at this point of your life? Yeah. Now it's a totally different. I feel pretty confident going to chat with anybody a big thing is not really caring what people think anymore and I would always try to like, please everybody and always try to like do the right thing and end up honestly trying to be like that nice guy mentality like referencing that last podcast you had. Yeah. I was doing things for myself back then I was doing them for what I thought other people might want and really like no one's happy cuz you can't you can't like predict what people always want to wait. So this was before the and this was a need for this is like years ago and like like in college, I basically started running a bunch and that was like a good segue into me building more self-confidence. I'm getting in better shape since then. I've still run pretty regularly. I work down daily. I think that was a good segue into like where I am today, which is a a now I feel much healthier and now I feel much more confident than I care very little about what people think now yeah, and really not caring is dead. Great, especially in this world of social media. We're now I think there's a little bit more people wanting to just see what my life is like. Yeah, and there's elements of that being incredibly exciting and having followers and people commenting and Views and engagement as like this really exciting thing and random people dming you and telling you they support you as awesome, but then there's this flip side where there's there's not any like I've read Reddit articles about how my voice sucks or how what how I'm a total player. You know, you made it though. Yeah, or like if I'm there like John's a player like he's dating Chelsea. He's like trying to do all this stuff and it's really just a fuckboy and I'm like y'all don't even know me at all. And so I I actually felt down for a while. When I remember I calling my mom and I was just like, wow, I really thought I was above this but I it's actually kind of affecting me and she was just like listening and being a great mother but now I just like I stopped reading those articles now because like I want to get back to not caring what people think yeah and Thursday I just want to like do what makes me happy. I want to spend time with the people that make me happy and I want to post things about like me like being happier because like being down is not a fun place to be and not active. So I'd like let myself kind of feel shity for a few days as like the social media really getting to me and then a lot of like I don't care.
00:20:05 - 00:25:35
So when you come in on the show do the producers warn you that this would happen a little bit me think it's probably different for everybody not everybody gets like a huge social media following afterwards some people get a huge following afterwards. It can change people in different ways. It's it's also it just like a psychological thing that people that can change. It's also like a business thing that people could change so it's not just me being down mentally. It's me being down like my business is not doing well if like people use this as a platform to make money, right? It's no longer like oh people are hating on me and it's just like I can take that mentally. It's like people hate on me. They don't follow me and now my business is suffering cuz I don't have any engagement that I would need to get like an endorsement or birth. Luckily, I just I'm a programmer and I still get my job. I'm not going to quit my job any time soon. But like I still like if there's like an interesting brand that I like really want to work with and you know, we chat about potential deals, but that's just like on the side like I still stay grounded livelihood isn't I still stay grounded with my job but that's sort of the evolution of reality T when real world started back in the day people don't know what the effects are reality. We TV would be yeah bottom-right going to be a fun experience to go on T. Nowadays. You have people going on wanting those Instagram endorsements wanting to be famous and you weren't bad and it's actually you're kind of in the minority. Yeah, you went on looking just for a different experience you were open to whatever so you're almost like the old school reality. Yeah numbers has there been any positive sides of Newfound stardom? I guess I absolutely like I think now one is like I could probably dead. A better chance of like messaging someone and they're going to reply like a dating app like not so much they're dating app like so the example I'm thinking of did you guys see the movie Crazy? Rich Asian? Of course, I spoke to my soul is like the most amazing movie. I like tried 10 times. I'd like to not be hysterically good and I like like wanted to get a message out to the director John shoe and like through like a degree of connection. I guys able to send like a hey man congrats like this is awesome. And so like like follow me on Twitter and I was like, oh my God, Joshua followed me home cuz people like made made like some comparisons between me cuz cuz of the tech thing and and the movie Crazy Rich Asians. Yeah, what about data gaps tow rating on them. I'm not a dating app currently offer sabbatical. Right? Right. Yeah, I mean not so much the full sabbatical and there's like I'm like, I guess I'm halfway in between where I'm like trying to like, I'm not going to use dating apps right now, but I want to make sure that I like put the timer. The work that I like need to so that I can still be very grounded and there's a little bit of me that now thinks that the my partner that I'm going to eventually end up with is like someone who have been like friends with for a while. Now someone like that. I might meet I like have a little I like almost question their intentions. Yeah, like I've met met up with someone like through like random like messaging there was like a part of me as I do like me or do you like the idea of that's yeah. I was going to ask you that like if there was a side of that yeah. Are you getting a lot of people reaching out? We went I want to go on dates or anything. Yeah people like young moms reach out to me. He doesn't know I'm doing this here's pictures of her. We're at the Grand Canyon. Here's what she does. Oh my God like a very nice. Yeah. It's so funny. So you could I could totally get not trusting intentions and some of the yeah. Yeah. So so that's why I feel like someone I've just like known for a while and been able to like build some like, New Jersey. Yeah a friend with and then that'll transition into something potentially more and it's like I don't know. It's kind of fun to like that like that tension build-up over sometime and hey, like we like each other. Let's potentially see what's their home that actually parallels your whole experience on The Bachelorette into Bachelor in Paradise. Cuz Julie made this really great Point earlier when we were talking. She said, you know, you were just getting warmed up The Bachelorette and Becca wasn't able to see all of who you are because it really parallels modern dating to have you meet someone online. You only have one or two dates to get to know them and some people need more than that. Yeah. That's it. It takes you a while to kind of open up absolute. You didn't get that time with Becca, but on The Bachelor paradise, you're like, I am warmed. Oh Superman and also dating through the shows is like reverse dating. So you show up and you don't have a choice. Time with some with the people so you have to really get to the Deep stuff first. Whereas dating in the real world, you know go on days and you're like, what do you do for where is your favorite color? Where you from my phone now then later on you might get to like what are you looking for in a family? Like, where do you want to live? Where do you see your career going? But on the bachelorette and and and on Paradise you sort of reverse it cuz you don't have that much time to have to get to the Deep stuff with knowing that what would you do to apply that to like dating nowadays outside of the show? 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00:25:35 - 00:30:03
We decided to create a song for two of our friends and pass guess Kate and Boris the couple that met on JDate remember them. So there were two options to choose from you can either build from an existing Foundation wage. Start from scratch. So we opted for the second option to have like completely personalized sum. We answered a couple questions with some background info and included some of our favorite memories and then some Finch hand. A professional musician to write and record a completely original song from what we wrote and it is so good. It's hilarious. But also very touching at the same time. I cannot wait to share it with Peyton boards stay tuned to hear what they think of the song now for dateable listeners only you can use a promo code dateable for $20 off your personalized song from scratch. So visit songfacts.com and enter the code dateable at checkout now back to the show, what would you do to apply that to like dating nowadays outside of the show? I think what I actually prefer is that low touch style where you can just hang out and not worry about the Deep stuff first and there's like I still have a little bit of like fear of jumping into something too quickly cuz my dog Last relationship. I feel like I jumped in way too fast. And then like all got pulled out from under me. So I'm like wary of doing that. I also feel like I just emotionally like opened up my whole personal life publicly and I'm like a little weary of doing that again. Now, I'm more looking for like hanging out with people and having a really good time like at a friendship level and if that ends up being something more like, hey, let's talk about it, but I'll actually like the more like traditional dating style than the show dating style instead of going and being like how many kids do you want to play the game like showed you? Yeah, but a slower board actually, I will say though now that I've been on The Bachelorette and Paradise in weird ways that process works for some people so well, I'm a little out there it is that but then it doesn't work for others. So what is it is it just a personality thing is it might be a personality thing. It's a it's a timing thing for sure like a game. Look at Chris and Krystal. They're I think they're both like 30 or 31. Yeah on there. Like Hey, we're not trying to waste time. We like each other a lot. Let's see what happens. If it doesn't work out. Let's just end and try again with some young people like Kevin and Astrid there were both sort of villains and kind of douchebags to other people but somehow when they got together, they were lounging really mushy. Nice. They bring the best out of each other. Yeah, then they're like, I don't know in person both Chris and Krystal, but even before they started dating I thought were wonderful people really like on the show. You only see a little Snippets of them. I play like they can definitely show me the parts. Were there like being a little bit crazy. Like don't get me wrong. Chris has his crazy sides. I'd happily tell that to to him. Yes face to okay. So is that the crystal seems aware? So was always awesome poem. She was just so generous so kind resting and Chris to like he's a super big goofy guy, but he has his elements of being crazy, but they were like a wonderful match together. So reality show isn't fake or scripture. Per se but they are only capturing certain moments that people make assumptions of a whole person. Yeah, it's pretty hard to like everyone's so multi-dimensional how many show someone's entire character in you know, thirty minutes of your time. You just have to put you in a category, right? You have to be the psycho girl. Yeah desperate girl, you know, they have to give you a labeled pretty quick. And also I think as soon as the cameras turn on people act differently, totally right totally like become a character that caricature of what it made me think of like social media. It's like yeah, totally emphasized social media, but like people are just putting one facet of their life on display. Yeah, and usually they're kind of not consciously but trying to put some like caricature out there for sure. I'm the party person or like I don't know what it is, but I feels like it kind of could go more of an amplified version. Yeah. We'll see. Yep. Someone who's been in the entertainment industry for over a decade. Now I can tell you guys I have many producer friends who are in reality T and they say it's not so much scripted, but they know how to ask the right questions. Okay. Let me so liberated their job really great at their job.
00:30:03 - 00:35:01
It's like hey John we heard Becca say this about you. How do you feel about that? Oh, why did you have to bring that up? But oh God. Yeah. It's an open up a can of worms. Okay, so they know how to ask the right questions. So it almost seems a little scripted but it's not so was there any other skills or anything else you learned from the show that you could apply down like dating and relationships moving forward? I think a big moment for me was just like really trying to not care what people think and so I I keep I keep coming back to that because that was my biggest learning mode. And when I was at going on dates before The Bachelorette, I would always try to like like this is like the one-pager my resume that I want you to know about me course and this is like like a game. You leave like I want you to tell your friends XYZ about me and like think I'm great. And then now I'm just like much more vocal about things that I want and things that I don't want them things that I need from like life or from a relationship you're in so many ins. Yeah. I want to I want to like be vocal about my opinions. And cuz if you're not then you're just always seemed to be like trying to please other people and be like at Super facade version of yourself. Yeah. It's like what we're talking about what trips episode the nice guy but nice guy is a people pleaser now, he's neutral about everything and you just want everyone to be happy all the time, but totally not memorable at all. Not at all and like you want to be polarizing in some ways and you want to have opinions because that's going to attract people that either re-connect with your opinion or don't and if they don't connect with your opinion, then you probably don't want to like write your partner with them anyway, but I think some people would say I want to have strong opinions, but no Don't know how to form these opinions cuz a lot of people feel very neutral about a lot of things right where some things that helped you form your opinions and have distinct perspectives. I think I've been a much better about being able to talk about my past than I have been and being able to talk you'll talk about it and articulate your past can really help you give opinions about what you want your future to be. For example, I knew that I grew up with some tough times when I felt like my parents were just like having really difficult discussions and they're amazing. They love each other and they're still together, but there was just some tough times as a kid. Like I didn't really know what was going on and I felt like I was just like kind of bowling myself up and not wanting to like hear anything or be a part of it and I blame myself for like if I must be a bad case of my parents are fighting and I want to have opinions about what it's like to be a father some day and I want to carry those into a time when I'm going to like be a partner with somebody I'm going to be a father and so dead. Think being able to like at least talk about your past and understand it and articulate like how you feel about it is probably the first step into forming opinions about how you feel about something that takes a lot of self-reflection and possibly therapy. I also am a firm advocate for therapy. I think everyone could do this is almost therapeutic. Let's talk about my life does get around the mic. I do want to know a little bit about your identity. So you're half Chinese have I'm half-chinese just have generic white. I just did 23 and me and my mom almost exactly half Chinese and like mostly like British Scottish white. Gotcha. Okay, and your mother's Chinese. Yeah. My mother's Chinese. Okay, so growing up. How are you perceived then? How did you identify yourself culturally? Yeah, how was I perceived as hard to answer cuz I have like myself in other people's shoes. I don't always know what you're thinking. But the way I thought I was perceived was like dead. You know slightly chubby kid who's probably really nerdy and academically doing well and didn't have that many friends. I think the part that was tough for me was like a look at the kids that were quote-unquote popular because they were like good at basketball or they played football and I was like, well, I'm not like that. That's American culture. Yeah American like the homecoming King is like the cool popular guy. Of course, we're back. Yeah. And so what I would look around the popular kids were never Asian, especially Asian males. I think there's probably some stigma where like Asian males feel like at least that's how I felt like if you're an Asian male it might be harder if you're interested in white women to be able to find a white woman that's interested in Asian males cuz they're not traditionally like the popular culturally be attractive group that could celebrate it in the media as much so I felt like I was just another one of the Asian guys who's like fit into this Paradigm where I'm also attracted to two white women wage. And so like how could I possibly compete with these you know white super athletic guys, just so even though you were halfway even though that's why I was seeing on the difference. Yeah. No one ever like would make fun of me per se for being Asian.
00:35:01 - 00:40:03
I got like a definitely some comments. One of the funniest one I got was like hey John like are you Asian or are you Chinese? It's like off and it's technically I'm not like offended by it. I'm more just like but the hard part for me was like I would probably identify myself more with just like the the last popular crowd. I don't know if it was a result of being Asian or if it was a result of being chubby or or just like trying to beat quote nice guy and people don't respond well to just like do being super timid off being really insecure like, you know grow up like honestly most people are so involved with themselves. They don't have time to care about you. So if you're like feeling insecure they suck. You won't even notice. So it's better to like it's better to not care what they think because they really don't care what you think. Anyway, do you ever get this and this might be a little controversial but I feel like Asian men are having a month right now because of crazy Rich Asians and all the publicity of media around it. But a lot of my Asian friends would see someone like you or who makes like Henry Golding and say well we don't identify with him because he's still half he's he doesn't know what it's like to to struggle as a, you know, a hundred percent Asian male. Yeah. I'm sure there's probably some folks that think that down there. I felt like they were times where I couldn't identify fully with like an Asian crowd because I'm half or I I also felt like I couldn't identify with the flu white crowd because yeah, and so like there's always a soft spot in my heart for half a is because I got can identify with them more easily. Yes, and I don't know it's one of those things where kids they just like want to fit in and wherever they can find Comfort very, yep. I don't know a bunch of people have come up to me Asian men who are just like. Oh John you were awesome. I I'm so glad you are Asian cuz like makes me like so excited for you and one guy who gives him. Hope so like yeah, maybe there's some folks out there that don't think that I count as patient and like whatever honestly I don't like care. Yeah, it's just I'm half-asian. That's what I am your full. Yeah Chinese, you're fully white. I don't care like it is what it is. So what are you looking for in a partner? I've yeah, I've been doing some soul-searching. I'm just recently what I like is when people keep me grounded. Okay, and I know for someone like in my shoes, like I definitely could have that aspect where I always got a verify check on Instagram or he's got X number of followers or like on paper. He's awesome. He's you know got this great job behind him. I feel sometimes when I can like be in my head about it and have like a little bit of an ego boost. And I need someone to be like yo, get over yourself. You're really not that great. Like you're right. I'm not that. I'm sorry about that. So no exam fast-track to do me grounded. Another thing for me is I get in my head about things regarding just sort of like indecision and the hard part there is it's not that I know what I I want always. I don't know what I want. It's it's sometimes I'm just like I'd fall into that trap of like me trying to please everybody and sometimes saying things that might hurt people like I'll try to avoid and it's better when sometimes just gotta rip that band-aid and say it and so I appreciate when people can have those really tough conversations with me and it feels just much more natural I'm being judged I can like talk about anything and that's why I feel like there's a there's a bit where it's easier to be friends with the person first because you can have those difficult conversations without the behind. In stock that like how might this affect my relationship and so if you can have some of those test runs of those difficult conversations, you'll know what it might be like in the relationship if that could happen. It sounds like you need someone who knows you to the core and who's seen the evolution of how you've changed. I think that would help. Yeah. So have you gone back through your Rolodex down females in your life and yours you do maybe not as not as much I mean a big part of what the show teaches you is to have an open mind off. So I'm not saying like they necessarily have to be something that I've known since like kindergarten like, you know, you could meet someone down the road you could maybe someone that you haven't known very well, but like now you behave like in a circle of friends together, so I'm not I'm not ruling anything out right now. I'm just like trying to like stay focused at work. I'm trying to stay focused and make sure I'm there for with my friends and my family. Yeah, and then if I think religious Ships could like are exciting and you know, I'm very curious about them. Then I want to spend time with somebody but again, I'm sort of like almost too emotionally like drain to be able to fully committed to something which is why I'm almost like slowly tip until whatever could happen.
00:40:03 - 00:46:05
So that's a great segue for some take some way that somebody segues but you made you want to start with some of your takeaway. Yeah, I think one is I say there's a lot but I think this is another great take away just to keep repeating which is we're all works in progress and phone number we meet other people we have to know we're meeting them at a moment in their life and they may be totally different the next day or the next month or next week. We have to forgive each other for kind of the changes going through but also Embrace where we are in this journey, so it's wonderful to hear John's Journey because it's all documented on T. But it's also very authentic and wage. Own your journey and know that you're a work-in-progress it helps. You stay grounded to know that hey, I'm still working on myself. But you know, this is not the end deal here. I'm still working on myself, but also looking for someone who's working on themselves to who's in this evolution of going towards a better person right going to be a prophetic person. I really like that point though at everyone's a work-in-progress. Yeah. Yeah. I like everyone thinks like when I get there you'll like never get there. You'll just just like always a step in the right direction lie, and once you do feel like you've gotten there then you've stopped growing as a person. Yeah. It's a fun in that right? I think the second takeaway I have is I when we talked about dating and focusing on your dating life, it doesn't have to be about dating other people. I think something you said earlier was I took a step back and started focusing on myself. I bought a guitar. I joined a volleyball league that's dating yourself. You're taking yourself off. States where you have mutual interests, right? So when we talked about focusing our love lives in our daily lives don't think about it as you're trying to find a partner, right? You gotta be. Okay doing yourself for getting comfortable with yourself totally. Yeah. I I really wanted to love myself before I could be in a relationship again and especially now I've learned like I like value personal time. Yeah. I know just want to like hang out with myself. I actually I want to like play guitar, like honestly sometimes just like play video games. So and so I know that I need a loan time and like a partner that respects add and once that mm. Yes, I got a big plus for me and how much do you love yourself right now? Yeah now I'm like now I've like I don't plan on my cell phone to work in progress though. There are times when I feel pretty down about myself or my how your humans you could be cooler John and your human. I think my biggest takeaways is there's a dead Between winning and success and I think technically on the show you did not win. Right right. Not move on. What's your name Backup backup? Her name is Rebecca did not choose you but you made a point. That one was first of all, you felt like there was more of a friendship with Becca and a lot of men probably would have been like I want to win I would make sure no matter what and I think this ties back to dating that not everyone you meet is going to be a fit and it's not winning to get to the next date. Like if it's just not a fit. It's not a fit and there's nothing wrong with that and I think success came in in the fact that you got to know yourself as a person when you went to Bachelor in Paradise. You were a lot more comfortable were able to shake some of the insecurities against all the football team got your meds song. Yeah. I think there is definitely a difference and not just looking at the immediate outcome. Yeah, knowing your end goal is your end goal is not to win someone over that's that's a really hard song. Quality TV show and goal is to learn about yourself learn about the other person and then hopefully know what you're looking for. Yeah, the end goal song. I'm really glad that you stayed grounded through that whole situation and you were truthful to yourself, you know in your feelings. That's a really good takeaway. Yeah anything else that you have John either from this discussion or just from the whole experience any takeaways a big thing is like not to worry about what people think. Yeah, cuz you're never going to be able to please everybody just can't and if you go down that path, you're probably just going to like fail. Yeah and just the more you can do things for yourself the more you'll make yourself happier. And that's that's like a sort of this thing that I've been trying to do now was just like really make sure that this where I spend my time is some like with the people I want to be with or like doing the things that I want to do and that's like the work that's with friends. That's cool. with my family too and so like being very judicious about like where I want to be spending my time I think has been much better for me and I think it really tests you and you are reality T V when you see if you're going to, yeah creamer survive anything one of the questions you ask in the beginning Julie was what are some of the positives that came out of the 6th oh yeah I would say one of the positives for you is that now you have a platform you can use this platform to promote some of your philosophies some of your mindset and I think it's great that you put on our show to talk about some of that and we encourage you to keep doing that because this is a great platform for you to do that on I want to wrap this up but usually what we do with our guess is we say well if anybody wants to meet this guy so he wants to be set up let us know and we'll you know make something happen but I think in John situation you know off You know a few years if you're like a childhood friends and we just happened to be single, you know, exactly because you read me naturally encouraging I think that's just like a much better writer now, but if you just want to pop up from the past somehow just slip into his DMS.
00:46:05 - 00:48:34
Okay, let's look at this Instagram page. Yeah, cool. All right, we're going to wrap this up. Thank you so much John for yeah, we're going to do a Facebook live now. So you're not done what to do it. I'm excited for that. So excited for this we have so many questions about the shows themselves sure for anybody who's listening to this who would like to be a guest on our show. Have you been on a reality T show a dating show. We love to hear from you. We actually do know quite a few other Bachelor family alums who who live in San Francisco. So we love to hear from you as well on that note date. All your action item for this week is to stop. Looking at dating as a reality T competition where you're trying to win someone's Rose at the end of the day. It's all about compatibility. Are you suitable for each other? So next time you're trying to get him or her to like you back step back and think dual. I think we're compatible together. Does that motivate me to get to know this person more and then you'll stop thinking about this race or winning this competition. Now, it's more about finding the right partner. This episode of datable is brought to you by 500 brunches 500 brunches connects like-minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a quick question are about your interest and how you spend your time and then they'll match you in small groups of six to eight at a brunch spot in San Francisco get a free entry into a bridge now by signing up at five hundred branches, and using the code date able if you didn't know already we have a revamped web site with articles videos and content all about Modern dating. You can also find our premium y Series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We've had some great feedback about how actual these episodes are. So check them out on our website or iTunes music also visit the site today to see the latest about coaching where we connect you with dateable approved experts to help with everything from dating profile reviews coaching and even Gathering real feedback about your dating style in a personalized and affordable way to connect with us visit dateable podcast, You can also find us on Facebook Twitter and Instagram all under dateable podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and Auto download the podcast on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. So you never miss an episode.