Yelitsa and Sofaya tell us the struggles of dating as black women in modern times. We discuss racial discrimination in online dating, the judgment formed from extreme stereotypes, and the impact of interracial dating with black men and ones of other races.
Sponsored by Chegg for $5 off your subscription to Chegg Study use code: DATEABLE
S7E7 Dating as a Black Woman
00:00:00 - 00:05:03
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.
This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at a brunch spot in san francisco get a free entry into a brench now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. I know we've talked about dating as an asian person in modern times in also the fetishes that come with that. We talk about yellow fever. We also talked about the white horse but we have some as in on twitter Her name is leaked. She said you know. There has been an episode about black fetishism in racism experience while dating as a black person. I would kill for a breakdown. On that end cher. She volunteered herself by write-off brought a friend along the phya is also on the phone Do girls want to say a quick. Hello hi ruin your background on both of them Currently in cincinnati. She's moving soon. She grew up in new york city in her early twenties. She single and ready to mingle. I'm guessing that let's leave it. At that suppliers curly living in atlanta. She's originally from stamford connecticut I know what that's like i. She's twenty six years old. And currently in a monogamous relationship. Okay so i love it we have. We have some of whose single someone who's in a committed relationship talking about what it's like dating in modern times is a black woman. Let's just go very general. I what is it like dating as a black woman. These days i so file. Where do we start. I know what it boils down to is that we we have all of the struggles that everyone else has to deal with in general but of course they're going to be particular things. In addition to that. We have to think about and navigate borough in so dealing with not only sexism but the races on on top of each other in. I don't want to speak for other black women black sam's but in the conversations i've had with peers and in general the conversations. You see online when you bring people together. There are shared experiences of being treated differently because of your race as a black woman the way that you look as a black woman the different skin tones in hair textures. That we have in just we. We share so many common stories of things that men have said to us about our appearance or their preferences dating. Okay sharing caring so i will say tinder. You'll get a lot of messages where it's like. I've never been with a black girl before or they'll call you like hey beautiful black goddess or like me princess and. How do you feel when you get messages. Like that matic turnoff. Yeah on large arul. I mean i can totally relate because i get those messages as well. Like your I've never had an asian before like one fucking buffet. We're not here to try and different backgrounds and cultures are not for you to sample. that's not exist for so my question is do you think that comes out of racism or is that just ignorance common conversations that we pad are all. They're not necessarily centered around racism. Because a lotta times. There's not really a malicious intent to it. But there's there's a bit of a sensitivity. Racism in and of itself is ignorance. So i would have to say yeah Whether it's intended to be negative like it's not about the intent about the impact so if you're saying something that is image impact racist. It is racism. So i wanna bring this back to a few statistics that i've seen online. I don't have the exact statistics but there's been a lot of studies and reports on Marginalized groups who have the worst time with online dating those men in black women. Black women. why do you think. Asian men black women fall into this group. Y halibut stereotypes that are associated with those groups of people. What are the day Will for black women in particular. Were hard to deal with where allows we're not very docile Integrated is a good one.
00:05:03 - 00:10:00
We have our own mind. We do what we want on the twenty eighteen. We saw the rise of the conversation around asian on identity in media and i think buzzfeed which platform it did but they did a as men are sexy to type of campaign because a lot of oftentimes like asian males not been portrayed positively in western site like in our media at all as like potential love interests there either scientists or they're not visible at all young so speaking i can only speak from the asian side. A lot of my asian male. Friends will say you know. It's hard for us stating because not only do non asians don't wanna data's because we're not a masculine enough based on media stereotypes but also our own kinda wanna date as they route outside of rate of our race. Do you feel the same way or do you. How do you feel about that for you. So the first thing that i will say that encompasses that experience for black women is every block I'm gonna say every black girl has had to ask at some point in their life. I wonder if they like black girls. Oh i remember doing this. I was talking to friends. He's really cute. I like can do you think he likes black girls. Because you knew you never get to just walk in the world and think that you are desirable like it doesn't matter how you look as could be on point your eyebrows on fleet. Your outfit is fit and you. You know that you're beautiful but you still have to ask yourself. Would you have to ask that for black men to us. Yes you will see a black men and the alike. I wonder if you dates black women. Yeah really why is that you see it you don't you don't even have to ask. And you see the black boys not interact with the black girls. The same capacity. They do their peers of other races. You never really see them interacting with you or they never have an interest in you. And i'm not the type of person to you know chase what doesn't want me like checking for people who check for you so you just know and often it's expressed in media express online like i've had people i know who know people are like i've heard them say i don't like black girls and they are black. Is it a look that the media portrays says she should look a certain way. Were is more of a status thing. Is it like you have a wife who is not of your same race than somehow. You're elevated in status. That's actually what i wanted to bring it back to. Because i was going to comment on how for a long time for a lot of men of color. Particularly black men. Having white partner is a status symbol. I'm just a couple years ago. Artists did apiece performance piece where he was wearing white women as scarves in order to convey this message of how a lot of people use them as status symbols of look. I have a teen. Such while. teams has growth. I've escaped you know all these. I've transcended my blackness. Now have a white partner. This this is like this is a symbol of my power interesting. Do you think that has any. Because i know we talked about how black women are often seen as marginalized but black men are almost elevated in media like insecure. Tv show like there's this whole scene about like how these two white women really wanted to like. Have a black man. Like elevate more fetishizes size for the color of their skin for like the the mandingoes stereotype. All these tropes that our society has placed on them like this powerful black man and trapping them into this idea that there's only one way to be masculine or be a black man. It's more stifling than it is. Empowering so i i want to bring this back to some of your personal experiences because what i'm hearing is you're either experiencing meeting someone who may not date black women or meeting someone who fetishizes dating black women. So how do you navigate the dating scene. You're in a relationship. How were you able to navigate these two polarizing effects so my boyfriend is white We're going to start off by making that absolutely clear and they're gonna pay a lot of my experiences here. I am not the first person of color that he's dated. I am the first black person that he stated and so he's more liberal. He i mean he grew up in a really conservative family in the deep south but like he has a set of experiences growing up than going to college and meet in the people. He's met that he's a better one with very there's woke. Why are we have lot of conversations about the sexy things but like a lot of his friends. Tell him he earned. They're really surprised when their spacey might photo in they're like wow you know like type of dude today to black girl in kind of like joking kind of way. Not in my. You don't seem like the kind of guy in a hostile way but like oh wow.
00:10:00 - 00:15:01
I didn't expect this. You're the whitest. I i know kind of status. And so it kind of sparked a conversation where it's like every time we see an interracial couple in public which you notices them now. He's like seem like the type of guy like you don't really interesting about this conversation. Is that a lot of my non black male funds. Have this st. I dunno stereotype where this myth that black women don't date outside the race they're like i don't even approach black women because i just assumed they wouldn't even look my way if you look at the statistics. It's not wrong. But it's it's a sweeping generalization. Black women due date outside their race just not to the degree. That black men do. But it's never good to make assumptions back to my original question is how do you date successfully than at like when you first safai when you first met your boyfriend. I'm sure you have suspicions right. So what are those conversations. You had to have to get over that. I met james on bumble okay. That was key because the only way that conversation would have started was if we both swiped right a. Ha so a dating apps to me. The tender and the bundles were game changing because it eliminates a lot of the. Hey this is my classmate. He's kind of cute. Let me ask my friend and let me kind of Them and hope that he likes it. Just it makes it clear. From the beginning i am interested in you are interested in. We can start having this conversation hut early in your relationship. Did you have the discussion of have you dated black women before That's a good question. I don't think that was something i ever brought up. Thanks so much. It was an extension of story of the first person that summit and was like. Oh i didn't your girlfriend wants lack. And he's like continued to just be like well. It's not the first time i did the color amaya It would just open up the conversation that we would be talking about it anyway. And so those types of details would come out because they're irrelevant to the conversation So you live in atlanta because in atlanta. That's you know the black mecca. Do you get any sort of reverse discrimination comments or criticism from from the black community. I will say that this is a good place to be Couple in terms of like not getting weird on summit street saying that. I have seen a lot of interracial mingling in atlanta. It does make sense. That kind of thing would happen here because mean it's a growing city with a lot of translates hunt from different parts of the country in the world and so to say it doesn't happen at all like i will like those are things that are happening not to my face. Okay we have a guy that we spoke with that had dated a black woman and we taught him about this experience it. He said that he actually felt like people saw him were woke after doing this. What are your thoughts on that ono. That's got that's one of my fears. When it comes to dating. outside of my race is being used as like it and this is really selected with my friendships. I never wanna be that black friend that white people use like i have a black friend so i don't wanna be the blonde girlfriend of the white guy uses like well. I can't be racist. 'cause i'm dating a black person. It's like it's like a superpower. Yeah i i never wanna have fallen to that and so people perceive Listen you can be just as racist and date people of color as you can when you donate them. It doesn't matter and what about you elites 'cause you're dating you're single. So what do you do to filter method man so my challenge is trying to find someone who isn't races Sexist is like in the same direction as me. So i look at their profile and i obviously look for red flags in the way that they communicate with me. I ask specific. I drive the conversation. So i can get a feel for their politics bit. Those are really important things to me. I need to understand where you stand on the spectrum of you know liberal to conservative in like whether or not we'll buy and so what i do is i often talk about myself like i bring up. My active is in college or the work that i do young girls of color i talk about. You know like because my work is based in race. So they're uncomfortable with that conversation. I can tell that this is not going to go while if you tried to pursue a relationship or go on more dates okay and then what are some red flags that you can see right from the beginning other than politics. Their friend groups seeing like looking at photos of their friends and like what they do for their interests. Like if i don't see a diverse group that's a red flag for me because i need to know that you're having certain conversations with your peers and like i need to know that you've been exposed to different types of people. Okay so friend groups with us for me based on my profile and the fact that they can see my instagram. And what i do and what.
00:15:01 - 00:20:05
I'm interested in what i talk about. People pretty much read themselves out. So i don't get a lot of you know i don't have to sift that much and have to do a lot of fine tuning but but you can right. 'cause i'm speaking from girl girl. I stock profiles before i. Sometimes i'm like i got every ex girlfriend. He's had his asian. That's a red flag to me. Yes actually i do see that a red flag to you. I've never had an experience where i was one of several black women that someone had dated. So what are some examples of fetishism in that you've seen like the other side goes suicide. The tent tend to happen in the first few messages. So yeah using to kind of like for that and then like block them. Give us some exam so so. I was seeing an african american boy back in between sophomore and junior year of college and this goes back to like the types of comments that were here from african american men about black women and he had told me that his dad said oh she's really pretty for haitian girl and i was like what does that even mean. What does that even me. You could have just said. I was pretty but then it was like layered and in terms of the african diaspora. Now we're talking about my cultural identity as like a haitian woman in like not expecting haitian women to look like this and what does that mean. And all that kind of stuff. There are so many parallels with the black community asian community. Because i've dated asian man's families like oh she's really dark for asian like what staff scores within different ethnic groups. It's all rooted in the idea that we think beauty suppose to be the closest thing to the eurocentric standard. If you're not if you're not fair skinned and you don't have hair. That looks like this. You're not beautiful. I had a cousin who we were talking about how he often dated african american girls with fair skin and we asked him based on based on our skin tone on his sister and his other cousin. Who would you date. And he pointed to me and he said you're good any pointing to his other cousins. Said they're good and then he pointed to his own sister who's the same skin tone as him as his mother as many other people in his family said. You're too dark while interesting. Wow that's very experienced for a lot of black women. I haven't had that experience this I'm in this space. Where i'm like black enough to be fetishizes by white men in still be acceptable to their family and also black enough to be considered black for black people but also decides. Because you know. I'm i'm not dark dark skin or i have good hair and so it's like i don't know why you're dating Dating because he actually liked me. Or because you think i'm some type of trophy because apolo. Let's talk about that. Because i want to hear about. We're talking about fetishizes right. So when was the last time you experience that where you felt like someone really spelt novel to date. My last experience was with a white man and he would comment on my lips a lunch like they're so full there so luscious added at any. Just got to the point. Where it's like. I can't do this anymore. No more dates dates with you. Okay so i know like one of the things that came out on our twitter conversation. Is that you mentioned like one of our guests. Made a point to say like she wanted to experience all sorts of races and really have those experiences in. Yeah we didn't actually big much of it but you guys had a very different perception that that was actually. I guess i'll let you speak for yourself. What was your perception of that comment. So i actually talked about that. The reason why that was upsetting for me to here is because as a black woman people are always willing to go on a date with your experience you but they're never willing to lock down in committee attack you theory about this too with ashen women and men. Oh totally i feel the same way. Like men will date asian women. And it's fun it's novel but then when it comes to marriage and having kids and introducing her to their families. It's a whole different story so fi. I've seen so many stories online or from our network where it's like. A black woman was with a man for like five years. Wouldn't commit to her breakup. Six months later he's married to the next girl. Carolyn notably like our lighter. Skin quiet area typically wife material that a black woman surgeons typically would not be okay. I wanna talk about the stereotype. First of all. Where do we think these. Stereotypes came from and session of all. What can we do to to get rid of these stereotypes. Well slavery is the root of everything word of all right using agree. Black woman stereotype came from slavery will be go to basic tropes of black women like the miami and the judge bell got. What does that mean. So the miami is. This is the african american figure. She's like the matriarch of the household. She cooks he cleans. That's she's a servant she serves as a servant and then the jazz bell a sexually promiscuous woman you know.
00:20:05 - 00:25:01
She's running around in the streets late at night and that's something that was often put onto black women. Black women are seen a sexual or not a sexual enacting in those are the two main. Trump's came out of the ideas around people color when we like dissipated in incredibly racist structure society but what about the anger the anger that come from. It's time for a break so we can tell you about our current sponsor check study from check a leader in online study assistance whether you need textbook. Solutions were expert qna. There's no better tool to help you. Ace any class then checks study. If check said he was around. When i was in college. I would have used this in a heartbeat. You can tap into checks. Massive library of step-by-step textbook solutions. And even get expert help. Who reply within two hours anytime and anywhere the best part you can use this at home on your computer or you can download the check steady mobile app. One of my favorite features was that you can snap a picture of a problem. Not covered in your textbook and instantly submit to checks. Experts getting online study. Assistance should never break the bank. Get more for your money with check. Studies subscriptions are affordably priced and can be cancelled at anytime for five dollars off your first month. Subscription go to check dot com four slash dateable. That's spelled c. H. e. g. g. and use the promo code dateable. But what about the anger. The anger that come from. It's through the media like how betrays people like women of color. Each group is portrayed specifically by media in a different way. Like latinas are like sexy and spicy and hot. And then asians are like docile and like smart and branding and then black woman ended up with the angry. You know welfare queen Baby daddy drama like when you when you take a step back and look at those descriptions again like the description for agents. Descriptions from latina's are descriptions that are more attractive in dating space. No one's going to be like. I want someone who's just mean. We kinda just got shafted. Well let about the positive stereotypes. A subculture like one of our best friends is black as well in just assume she's like and very bubbly personality dances all the time and like all the stereotypes that are from media that way. How would you respond to that. All black dot often gets to be seen having multiple layers like we. Don't get to be seen as soft. We don't get to be seen as emotional. We're always portrayed as like strong independent powerful angry got up. And i think the way that we deconstruct that is by allowing people to be who they instead of placing them in these combined spaces of like this is. This is how i see you in. This is the only way to see you and actually understanding people individually. So what i find really interesting for media perspective. Is that the more the stereotypes come out the more complaints that come out the more. These movies and tv shows are made in response to it but they kind of backfired. So i'll give you an example. I had this conversation with a few girlfriends and two of them were black and we were talking about that. Show being mary jane. Have you like that show. I don't watch it okay. It's a show made by black women who wanted to show about empowering the black women in the dating world too but in the show as as the seasons go on the women get angry and angrier and more independent and then by the end. They're kind of like. I don't need men in my life so my girlfriends were saying. You know like i love that. There is a show create for us but at the same time it actually feeds into the stereotype will again my rating. Like there's no incentive for hollywood to wipe wait stereotypes that have been making their money for all of these years. But there's one more thing to add to that which is the fact that people are upset with The portrayal it's because there aren't enough if we if we count on all the shows that we have where there's representation of course. We're going to feel some type of way of mary. Jane has all these characters that are being portrayed as angry independent because we don't have enough characters to show all the different sides that black women have so what about insecure. Because i feel like they've been kind of taking this onto like easter raise whole has been like how am i portrayed as educated black woman. What are your thoughts on that show in the message coming. There is great. But it's one show seventy onto what. Yeah what do you think it's about that show. That's that has had you have this reaction. This is great or the one. I forget the name the mary being mary jay that you ages represented by eight that show looking an idol insecure is more for the younger millennial black folks at shows all the nuances of dating while black in figuring out life which is why so many people are drawn to it.
00:25:01 - 00:30:00
You get to see. The different insights of the character is addressing. All these different things. Like i love mali's that like the dialogue on molly and her experiences bro. And being this really successful black who has it all together but yet cannot for the life of through your her dating situation that resonates with me. Because that's how a lot of people feel. And that's where a lot of people are like so insecure really artfully done. A great job of representing the different places that a lot of young black males are in life in showing are different sides. To do you think that's the difference then the multidimensional. It's not one stereotype where this other being buried. Jane is an angry black man female. I would say yeah. But i also haven't seen being mary jane so i can't speak on it fully for show like insecure. What i find so intriguing about it is that the characters are so relatable no matter what gender or what race you are they just happen to be black right so it's like These are these are these are normal human beings going through normal human things and they just happen to be of a certain color but she'll being married. Jane and i. I would criticise tyler. Perry in the same round. The the leading factor. Is there black characters. I dunno insecure. That it is based around being black like that mason. Identity definitely does play a role in insecure. But i will agree with you. That like in tyler perry productions. We don't talk about tyler perry. Why what is it about him. What is it yeah. I want to hear tyler. Perry has a lot of caricatures in his character. Lineup that are not always helpful. And because of the sheer popularity of his movies and how ubiquitous it is to see them on your screens and so it's kind of like he's it's dangerous because of just how popular it is. It is what it is. So what you're saying is that. There's a very stereotypical character he portrays slick always has a dark skinned black man. That does a black woman wrong and then the light skin savior confident. He loves jesus. God thing so i think i think what i'm here for this whole conversation is we just have to with these like stereotypes. That have persisted in just like let people be people like any other race. But i i'm also hearing from. This is that it comes from within your own community. I facing battles in my own community in asians actually perpetuate these stereotypes for ourselves I feel like the same in the black community. Yeah the horizontal hostility internalized. Racism happens in a lot of different ethnic groups and we do have to address it from within its challenging when we don't have the voice or the capacity to do it clicked. We're all trying to fight. We're all trying to fight racism. But then we're trying to fight racism and sexism and then within our own community homophobia and transphobia There's so many things and it's hard to do them. All so then ladies helped me out here so i have a lot of men of men. Friends male friends like guys that goes back a lot of male friends who are very much willing to date outside the race in fact their dislike i will. I will date anybody awesome. But they are the They feel most insecure win. Approaching black women especially online they. They're like. I don't wanna spend good sky. Go one nine her. I wanna be sensitive. I don't want. I don't want to come off like this. Some sort like fetishism. Yeah my advice. Is this if you're a white person and you want to date a black person. Exactly the way that she would reproach her if she was white. Do the same thing. My issues came. When like i guess like i mean especially because i do like go out guys and it's just kinda like always doing the most every time like and it goes on both sides sometimes. It's the most Kinda way sometimes. It's the most of like. Hey i'm aware that we are of different skin tones. And i'm going to go out of my way to make sure that i accommodate m make. This is moving. Easiest offline us. It's like you said a bunch of words. Can you not just be cool. Okay just be normal right okay. So from the guy the from the male perspective you're saying just treat everybody the same however way way you know i don't i don't agree with that. Okay i want to hear your. I will say you do have to do level of education like if you want to date person. Do not expect this person to educate you about things. Like being mindful like. Don't over think it but be aware and don't get offended if you like. Don't get offended if they do tell you that you've done something wrong it because it's all about intent like we know that you're not trying to be racist but let me tell you something. Don't get defensive. i've i've addressed white men when they say like when i say please call me. Chocolate prints is like a compliment is like no. We're not doing that. You gotta you gotta komo light.
00:30:00 - 00:35:01
So we're kind of each year. Because what i what might be normal thing was like to the initial approach. Also you would never say chocolate. Princess sue white person. So it's kinda like i like. I like white chocolate light chocolate princess chocolate. Princess always get sued because there are plenty of southeast asians and people from india. That had the same kind of maybe more yellow undertones but like are also brown and i asked myself. Has anyone ever a chocolate or should an american or african black being a sexual yup. What about the flip side. So we give advice to the man. What about the women. So this is something that happened to a guy friend of mine. He went on a date with this black woman. wasn't like he was trying to date. Black women is just. He saw this girl online. Thought she was super cute. They went out and for their second day. He wanted to go to jay z. Concert shopping real piss. She got late. I hear the this is what he's he's like. I love jazy. He was in town. I want to go see him. I wasn't even sure. Go with me. And she was very sensitive about it she was like oh is it. Is it because you think this is something i be interested in. She never she. Never overtly said because i'm black. But she was kinda like oh. Is this something you're even interested in or you're just doing this for me. How do you feel about that is it. Because i'm black. She missed a great joke because their faces get so uncomfortable. It's so funny. I feel like a jay z. Concert is a really big second date. That's another thing that's seems like you're being extra and so i have to ask yourself why you're tonight. I just don't do that but it's some guy wanting to jay z. Concert on the second day of you like hell. Yeah i would go. Yeah i mean. I will definitely see assume positive intent until they've proven themselves not to be positive so we'll let us say. Would you say to the girl that responded that way. What is the way that she should have responded. I would say you definitely should have gone to that free concert and talked to him about it afterwards. That's something where you had to use the rest of the context to good feel for the situation so be like hey. I really appreciate you inviting to this concert. I just wanted to make sure that you are inviting you because you wanted me to join you not just because you know a my race and your i like assuming that i'm interested in rap music and then let them explain themselves. Are we like assuming the worst in people by like making it about being black. They wanted to go this concert. Like you made the comment before you like to see their face so funny when like they like you. Call them out for doing this to block woman i guess. What's the balance here. Welcome to the struggle of being dating while being black women a lot. You you have to protect yourself. We have had experiences where it was negative or a bad experience when you live in like think about like as a woman you are constantly aware of yourself when you're walking at night because you are target like the war society target could potentially be a victim as a black woman. You have to navigate with the evening. It sucks that you'd have to carry that baggage like you have to ask those questions. And as much as i don't want to i have to. I have to do it. Because i cannot end up in a situation where i'm engaging with someone who is viewing me in a negative way is using me excluding the in some way by one of ask. The person pointblank. If that's the reason why out to a jay z concert with for sure. When i open for the rest of when i would have had my feelers out and be looking. You know a little bit more right. You're more alert to it. I get it. You're just more sensitive to it at that point but at some level i can only speak for myself i feel. Sometimes i'm a little two cents right. You know if a guy asks me to go get on a first date. I get offended. I do because. I don't eat chinese food. I also get offended. Then i'm like damn why myself sensitive i e just calm down i need to just i think someone said earlier. Just assume the Think you said it assume that everyone ragged just funding. Because i don't really do that as i am so in agreement with you. I want to think that way. I want that to be my mindset. It doesn't always come out in action for the other thing about that is it's so easy to pick any other type of food. It's your even that you're gonna say i'm not gonna like live my life in a ultrasensitive Gets to offended like literally had to be like is. Let's go get italian and you would have been waiting nine tight situation whatsoever. And that's how. I feel about a lot of these scandals. Like some somebody making an off color joke or it's like literally just say something else. Car built builds a relationship. I get to the point where you clarify like this who we are as people in that.
00:35:01 - 00:40:00
That's it like understand each other. i saw like dole. I wouldn't if you're still getting to know you and you don't know where he stands on certain ideas maybe going to rob and asking her to rap. Concert isn't the best idea. I have one last presentation of an idea. That i wanna. I wanna bring up. Which is this asian men. Black women community that has really transpired in the last five years. They're calling w there meet up groups facebook groups there's actually real life in person groups and it's it's black women and asian men who come together to fight racism when it comes to a dating but also getting together romantically about that. So i'm all for love love who you wanna love. But i it feels weird when it's like intentionally going out of your way to pursue some because of their identity. It's not as as one of the not. I'm dating you because of your race. I'm cool with it. So you're saying if you just happened to meet asian guy in you. Were in him. That's cool but because you're like both in this marginalized group that you're finding each other for that and the near. You're making a decision of the next dude. I date will be asian. That that's falling. In fact the lappalainen hogan gotta catch him all kinds of That's a really interesting point. Because i wouldn't go to meet up group for white men and asian girls that all how i look at it. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Others might look at it like Optimizing their odd. Yeah that's true. Not which is totally fair to their own. I just think it draws a fine because there's so many conversations in the black community about that were black. Women are criticized for dating originally in black men are also criticized for dating interracially. And we always talk about you. Don't choose who you love then. To actively choose he loved. It makes the argument totally well. At least they're babies be super hot. We're not gonna say that. Now that's a red flag. That's like that's the thing that i would have beautiful babies together. Like i'm gonna just delete you and report. I guess to people would never say that so each other we have beautiful babies together just does come up as i mean. Maybe if they were all about saving the area in race or something like that other segue to what are takeaway real serious some takeaways from this conversation specifically around race in dating five. You wanted to i. It's gonna be be open. I also shoot your shot because a lot of what we struggle with. Women is not being approachable or being seen as a Ending so people who are like. Wow this person. So beautiful amazing Would never actually asked her out. So it's kind of just. I think that being intentional in dating is really important. And not like we literally just a dope pursue people because of their identity pursue them because of the content of their character. And then the other thing. I would say is i wanted. I want to touch on. How racial preferences are not preferences. If you're writing off an entire group people because of the color of their skin you need to reflect on your cell phone what that might say about you because that's not how our society work. Why is racial preference even an option for online dating. It's been going away though. I think tinder and all the apps akins. They don't have that anymore match okay. We're clean okay. Kobe who fit still Skier on the new ones. You really can't filter by race anymore. More i think my takeaway is like treat people just as a like a human not as like raised. But you also can't ignore it either. I think i got from you like if people just pretend like everything's okay and they don't address it that's not good either because it's just like unrealistic to accept that and it's better to Open dialogue in make it like non-issue the pretender is no issue. Yeah my takeaway is this one is just about respect and part of that. Respect is seeing someone as a human being and that comes through your first communication with someone especially online dating since. That's what we're talking about commenting about. Their race is never a great way to open the conversation. Even if you think it's a compliment it's not offensive something. We need to stay away from general. I wanted to add before you send any message. Ask yourself. Would i say white person and then look at your message again. Okay that's a good way to filter filter my second takeaway is we also have to look inward to ourselves and think about. What is vibe. We're giving off.
00:40:01 - 00:44:31
I noticed in myself. That the more sensitive i get about my race the more of a negative vibe putting out there so it becomes a downward riot from me so i know what i need to do in order change my mindset to think more positively to see the veteran people but i also the minute i think about some new negative. I also think that. That's also the energy i'm giving up which is also negative right. Yeah cool any other last thoughts or comments about this. I've really enjoyed this conversation to. I'm glad we talked about this. Girl's for being so candid with us. It's one of those things like if we don't talk about it the less we talk about it the more sensitive everybody will be about it and then it's like you just. You're offended by everything. I was gonna say thank you for having us. Twee tone can't be perceived. I was just talking out into twitter. That you guys were open and receptive to the idea and hearing what we had to say. Totally yeah. I think we've been wanting to do this topic for a while. It's just finding the right people to come and talk with us before we leave. I do want. I know both of you guys do have some work that you do outside of being hunched packer focused in like this society and like race face could have just kinda give a little plug of what you guys do. I'll i'll go first. So you lead to jean-charles founder of healthy root stalls make dolls that teach natural hair care to young girls of color. Because when i was growing up. I never saw that. Look like me and loving your skin and your hair as it naturally grows at your head is such a big struggle for african american girls in. I just wanna see us love ourselves. So yeah i started that toy company awesome. And how would someone find out more information you can had to. Www three ws healthy Dolls dot com awesome. And yeah. i'm so phya. I go to work and then i come who i did. Work with. The elites unhealthy routes some pr very briefly earlier than generally speaking. I like just like to be very visible and conversations tend to constantly. She real loki will thank you so much. This has been fantastic. Thank you for having us. I can't wait to do a follow up episode with black men. Yeah i see in different situation goes on like we talked about briefly like the fetishism. Like big dicked type stereotype. Like a lot of that stuff's going on. That is very different than black women. Yes yes let me know if i can listen in on that right and let us know anyone many listeners out last but not least stay little. Your action item for this week is next time. You're on a dating app and you're messing someone of a different race. Don't leave with race simple as that. Keep it about them not about their skin color. It's it's not cute. it's not funny. it's just plain offensive. Even if you think it's a compliment this episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at a brunch spot in san francisco get a free entry into a brench now by signing up at five hundred branches dot com and using the code date. Able if you didn't know already. We have a revamped website with articles videos and content all about modern dating. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We've had some great feedback. About how actionable these episodes are so check them out on our website or items music also visit the site today to see the latest about coaching where we connect you with. Dateable approved experts to help with from dealing profile reviews coaching and even gathering real feedback about your dating style in personalized and affordable way to connect with us visit detail. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. Under- dateable podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe an auto download the podcast on itunes. Or your favorite podcast player. So you never miss an episode.