S8E1: The Exit Interview

Dateable Podcast
February 19, 2019
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February 19, 2019

S8E1: The Exit Interview

We discuss some simple ways to make big changes, how to stay confident despite past rejection, and why feedback is a gift.

The Exit Interview

Jason shares how he’s had hundreds of first dates that didn’t go anywhere – and will now hear live feedback from 5 of his past dates about why things didn’t progress. We discuss some simple ways to make big changes, how to stay confident despite past rejection, and why feedback is a gift.

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Episode Transcript

Season 8 Episode 1: The Exit Interview

00:00:00 - 00:05:03

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Welcome to season Eight of the dateable podcast. How how do we get to eight seasons over one hundred episodes in over a million listens? All thanks to you. Of course, you're listening and supporting we can't thank you enough. This season is in sane. We have more controversial topics and amusing dating stories, but we also want to bring you ways to date differently. So I challenge you to listen to each episode with the lens of how does this episode make me date differently? Especially this premiere episode where listener was brave enough to let us to solicit feedback from five girls, he's dated holy shit. It's good stuff. You know, what else is good stuff? If you Khalib as a review in one thousand nine hundred we would love your feedback, and we want it to be immortalized forever. And if you have any dating related posts, just use the hashtag, stay dateable. So we can stock you. Okay. Let's get on with the show. The dateable podcast features real stories from real people of how they make modern dating work or not each episode while. Not only offer you a new perspective dating. But will also change the way you date. I'm your host UA. Former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear commentary from my producer Julie craft chick and other surprise co hosts. Everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. Do you ever fantasize about going on dates and then doing exit interview of swords kind of like a survey at the end of the Dayton see how things went that's always been my fantasy? And we have the Guinea pig has agreed to do this for us as next season. How I love our guest Jason already one because he's an avid listener of dateable. So we got to give him props for that. And to when we approached him with this idea. Jason was like, I'm down. Let's yeah. Let's do it. This is just a little background about who. He is. He's originally from Marin has lived in San Francisco for just over two years. He's twenty eight years old and described his relationship status pretty single and taking a dating sabbatical, and then also single active case taking us. What is it dating sabbatical and actively going on dates harbor? Harbor. It's pretty. Doc is Alec a middle ground that we need to start. This is what he wrote to us originally. I've been an avid listener of the podcast for years and have been on hundreds of first dates, but none of them have taken me anywhere. Whether being ghosted rejected or not feeling the vibe, I'm looking how to change this sometimes struggle to impress a girl right out of the gate. Am I not matching my profile? Should I be more certif-? These are questions I come to dateable to solve you've come to the right place. So we proposed to Jason the exit interview experiment, where we contacted five of the girls that he's been on first dates with and basically as soon as I content to them they were very open to doing this, which was also like pretty much all of them. Remember, you they all wrote back within like the first like half an hour late. Julie told me she got the girls, Mike. Okay. This podcast is going to happen. Well, again, we appreciate I think it's going to be a great learning. But have you? Have you ever done exit interview at work? I haven't than I didn't have like a formal process, but I've done young many excellent at work was this book that Iran the name of it is totally escaping me right now. But it was all this is where we got this idea in was based around women. So this is I think the first time from male perspective, and she basically talked to so many different people that women had gone on dates with in try to push it a little further to figure out what the real root causes of why these dates or amounting in came up with females from that. So this is kind of where this idea stemmed from this leg take on the work exit interview before meaning and we've also taken all that methodology. So maybe Julie you wanna go through the initial message. You sent to these women. Sure, basically, it reached out and said we're doing an episode that is like an exit interview to better understand one of our guests. Dating patterns. He gave us your name as someone who went out with recently. We were wondering if we could do a ten minute call. Call to ask a few questions of why there wasn't a connection. But love to have you help us with this. If you wouldn't mind this this is an opportunity to give feedback. So he'll learn from that. Yes. So we didn't reveal who you were in that initial message. We were just kind of seeing if people were open, but I think one of the things to note too is like when you do user issues like at work one of the best things is the gift of feedback. Ling you can learn from feedback. You improve your products are in this case your daily life. You're in beta we're going to. So anyways, I think feedback is a gift in honestly, no one ever gets feedback on date.

00:05:03 - 00:10:00

So very rarely. So I guess to start like why these girls why did you give us their in fellow all the people you've come the hundreds of first dates, unfortunately, I'm one of those people kind of what this pattern where if it didn't work out after the first date, I possibly would remove someone's number. Luckily in the recent dates able to find somebody wearing the app there was the phone number. Okay. A little bit of a staff of availability when I was able to find their contact God. Okay. That makes sense now based on what we heard so paint the picture for us when you're going on these hundreds of I eight how would these dates, and I was kind of going for the quantity over quality. Let's say was I had a kick boxing class Monday of free date on Tuesday staying at work late on Wednesday. I kind of like pick and choose my days of the week, and then kind of pencil in these dates, and then I was mostly looking for like dive bars or locations possibly closer by to me. And based off of that kind of matching my schedule. I might put myself at a disadvantage in not quite knowing the girl too. Well, and so you're filling timeslots yes, you ever do the batch of Bhakti only once in my life, and I like walked around the block of times. And I'm like, I hope this the first go doesn't see a small. My got this at the same place store. Is Zeke your time those Donaldson a small town. But how would these did you see patterns of how these states would end? I'd always come to second guess myself. If I thought there was come street, but I did go in for a kiss. And then I'd sorta like posse blame myself, but other times, I was just like, oh, you know, like, it was so short one of us might have said we had worker Lii in than I just kind of like drifted on kind of maybe got the message in that. Let me to like a next possible date over some of the challenges you faced while Dayton for me, which led me to wanting to be interviewed. I sort of might warm up to somebody later on like a second date. I find it a little bit kind of upsetting when somebody that I give one hour time is able to judge if there's a the slot, no romantic chemistry. So I think that like a mounted on me, and like a kind of the weight on my shoulders. So I led me to being on. Sherm house irt of any to be on a first date or we're kind of like changing my character. In a lot of my friends had say like you're like super authentic friendly warm bubbly guy, but I just sort of if it didn't work on winded. I might be different person of some sort on another date and that kind of led me to change. What are you looking for as my mother would say nice Jewish girl? By. I'm definitely I know I wanna be in a relationship. I had like a short phase may be like one night stands, but somebody just to work my way in doing like inactivity like going to the botanical garden a night out for dinner comedy club. Whether these are like friendly activsists start I kind of like really wanna put myself out there. Somebody in sometimes on a first date. I'm either a little anxious or too much myself. I guess much of your salad. I like scare girls a little bit by light telling my life stories and things like that. I need inferring that or did people tell you that inferring, and when you're talking about quantity over quality does that mean, you're not necessarily looking for relationship, or are you just looking for activity partner from hang out with I think mix. So now, I definitely feel like I could commit to somebody. But I kinda get that like onto the next one. There's another like a opportunity, even I think the term is called. Abundance mentality. See you're just you're basically have been quantity over quality. Because you feel it you need to fill your funnel up with a lot of people to find that person. If that's the case why come to us for this experiment when you can just fill up those time slots with first date, Why's it important to pursue them further. I think I hit leg hit the wall like maybe two or three months ago, and or even a little bit earlier, but I wanted to like stop going on dates for while which might lend me to like that dating spectacle until my friends like oh my God. I got a first date with this girl tonight, then it would go well, and then I kind of have to like have that might own exit interview or like my call to like Pratt scalp. So it didn't work out. I'll let you know when something better. I definitely didn't like a kind of take told me to point and one to figure out who I am. And in. I don't think I really enjoyed this sort of speed dating. So we noticed all the women that you gave us a contact for you met them through hinge is that your apoptosis will think hinge is the relationship app of some sort.

00:10:00 - 00:15:02

I've had like sort of short term stays on like Tinder for bumble shipper terms. And I just in quality of people a bit stronger on there. Okay. Do you really loves him? Yeah. I feel that way. Okay. Before we reveal each girls of feedback to you. Let's just go through some themes. You will just go with a good. I. The good is to start off all the girls thought that you did not disappoint in person when they first saw, you know, cat fishing. They thought they were cute genuine sweet good natured nice guy. Good manners asked a lot of great questions. Great conversationalist overall. They thought you were again attractive match your profile only one out of the five rolls. We talked to didn't feel chemistry. But the majority of them rated the date on a scale one to ten between five and seven. Okay. And then they were open to a second date or a longer date any reactions to that point happy that. Pictures. Look like who I am. Yeah. I definitely put a lot of effort into that. I can easily recognize a dating profile where you can tell like the photos little blurry or out-dated. So, yeah, I'm happy about that conversationalist is really helpful. Because at times, I kind of worry about like positive three seconds or allowing things the flow zone. Maybe I wasn't as rush in my conversations. I think a lot of them mentioned to like they've had some really bad ding. Yeah. They all were like this was a good at ala rate too. Good day. Yeah. Like pretty much across the board. Nothing one guy. No mystery still a good date like audited time. Now, let's start with each girl. One by one and we'll play for you their feedback. Okay. Starting with girl number one. I walked in flip the sex. He was really cute. And then I felt like it kind of fell flat pretty quickly. How long was he really wasn't interested? You know, how they would entrench the by all of our conversation felt very equal like force. Like that thing where you're trying to come up with the next hand. Yeah. There was like flow. Really like how I knew was was, you know, like, I think the minimum of the day is our and that was it was almost exactly an hour, but they are comfortable bed one and kind of bed. No like, no. We don't want that. Yeah. Would you have stayed longer if he hadn't done that? Because I feel like people awhile up right now, I'm kind of very forgiving of the first half hour hour because I've been with people who after the hour, they totally changed. But the fact that like you didn't Becca Drake. And he'd was there longer was kind of an indication of like, even if you managed to me, I think he deserved to drink one drink, you'll Siri I gave you the very very novels my attention time. And if the drinks are done the dated found if they think it's worth trying to get the second drinks, just as anything you didn't see in the in the first little bit like again, maybe if Hollywood not into me at all. But if I was giving advice in general about aiding it would probably be keep your options. Open. A we give kind of attitude bigger. Enjoy yourselves fire to give someone the benefit of the doubt and a little bit more time and energy. Yeah. I remember like walk. Back. It's almost exactly like an hour. Very left for the. So then how did it end with him? Kind of an awkward hug by the fact, kind of like well, thanks for the drink. And no like oh. Like this a fine. We'll do it again sometime nothing like that trying to think so did he ever ask you out again. No. So if he had hypothetically been more like let's go out again or stayed for that second drink would you have been interested in going out again? I'm very much interest. Okay. What do you think? Jason. It's good to get the personal under the bell. I m most thought that the conversation on her end was short in subtle that or short to sink din that she wanted to leave a bit somewhat up like people glancing around. And if that's like a body language finished. She thinks she was interested. I don't I felt she wasn't an in in. I'm usually not she thought you weren't interested. So by you calling the date after you got you were doing her a favor linked by saying she said like when the leader came around us rise that you were like, no, no more Warrick done like what was your thought process? So I'll usually do my dates at seven thirty or eight for me at my job.

00:15:02 - 00:20:01

I don't get into about ten AM. But when it gets to like, eight forty five or nine sometimes I just as soon somebody asked to leave trae. Now my head. Yes, super issued has rarely as I I know a lot of girls will cut the cord and be like, you know, I was great. I'm fine. I'm on the strata knowing that somebody want a secondary click. We'll I didn't even you're being preemptive in this. You're like what she says. No to a second drink. I'm just gonna say not what we're gonna. We're gonna get outta. Here is interested in her. There was enough in the conversation where could have continued to talk. I thought it was one in done that because she didn't think she was felt she was a little bit on the shot and one thing I might wanna like tinker with in. My dating game is like even conversation. So when I start talking seventy five twenty five I almost feel that it's already in the force lawyer so methodical of s day. Shall we? Go come the next year dating sites like that. So here is girl number two. Good impression. He confirmed like, but they he had asked me like if I had to be replayed into my area with I didn't you recommended favorite of his comedy in England where I was you know, because of the never an issue people speculatively fire, and yeah, he was he was doing of where where I mean, the timing and everything so we we met at a bar. I was reading a little bit. We was there ready, and he had already ordered a dream by down. And then I heard a drink. I remember like a little bit confused about who is paying for it with I've happy to favor my own drink the good guys sue and the there's there's a little fumble there. He ended up game for island. I remember thinking. Well, awkward and it being examined by the guy Davis, and they needs to be very clear about ball. And if he does that just communicate wait you're there. They must be good to be back for every guy. And then he didn't do. Houston. Look, very nice guy being a will. What was sure that me a little more mature remember him mentioning that he hangs about a lot with this coworker. A all in their early twenties, and I'm quote to thirty and just a lot of happy hours. And while other kind of being too early twenty people would be doing with both of their time. Kind of the focus of has day today. He had gone portlanders Godel. You showed me some pictures from not traveling with call kind of interesting pictures of the kenley with powers issue of humor, and they can personality on then. I remember like Lydia was a little bit weird. We're having backing. Conversation about where I think a little overview based on. And then they I think he knew how to bone. They felt it higher. They'd need to go. Kind of like rush. It wasn't a super move transition. Remember feeling very route to confused with. I was having a could he'd be time about going along with deed point is probably like an hour. Total start to finish. Would you have wanted to keep going on with open to another? I think about it. In Hollywood ended. Like, did you guys talk about seeing each other like did he ever text? Again. I remember it we go both off out of the bar. Lavar, and I on my phone Taino Buber. The by our own. He had also called this bone. And I was like oh cheering. After the go and ran off. And divert. Bustling? Really remember we had talked about meeting. I think he has the big about. Oh, this is like my been fun. Whether it really, you know generic I kind of like run off by the running up to the plush. I was thinking maybe his lawn. Those going. I I kind of people that the guy had showed me that they're interested by by them, though. We just been supposed to visit really necessary because. Could you waited ten more minutes next one? I think any must been by big. And and. What's your situation? Now, are you single? Or are you dating? Being on dating. I've been on a few birthdays about going on ended next week. We'll be having her Easter was a giant miscommunication with this that he was interested in going out again without rushing to the bus. Would you be open to? I think is really good. I don't think he's the guy for me. But I think but you were willing to have a second drink with him.

00:20:01 - 00:25:05

So there wasn't enough fun on that enough. I our for you to possibly stay, right? Yeah. You're right. I mean conversation with pretty natural and for free flowing. Interview us, but that's pretty typical. Yeah. I don't remember getting all quite positive or life by then there's in need from time. Plus get a good bus with somebody. And like one hour. It was open to another thirty forty minutes. Plus it a little bit more. Several interesting points, but the getting the drink before I didn't wanna be on my phone just be sitting there. So I was like why not get a drink. And and I always paid for drinks. Even if it's bites and drinks on a first date. So definitely a nutshell. That would cause yet. Can I don't think that's I you aiding the drink Furka is that we she showed up? There was no clear indicator that you were getting the drink for her. It was more like free for all seem light. So she wasn't sure if she should be paying, and she also said she didn't care if you purchase the drinks. She wasn't like, oh, he Ashish. He said it was an awkward start the first thirty seconds into a minute of a date when we're getting like arranged in their seats. I definitely have a bit of like quietness to it. I should have been like, hey, nice to meet you. I got my cores line here. That's bad choice Scott mule here. Let me get let me get you drink. That's great advice. It was interesting. I think I we talked a lot about work probably ninety percent of my friends inserts. Go or at my current job. People are roughly anywhere from three to six years younger. I have a few friends older, but I could see at someone in a different stage in their life thinking, oh, maybe mature levels different than I guess overall. Like were you interested in her? What was your vibe with her? It was one of those dates where in my head. I'll be like to I want to ask him out on a second date here. I believe link she might have been busy that weekend. In almost wouldn't write people off. Let's say this was a Tuesday night. I most of a hard time thinking in San Francisco of people wanting to go on a second date seven days later. So there is some Shannon. What is interesting about you thinking back about these days is that you don't actually give us your opinion of them. You actually, I'm more concerned about their opinion of you. Oh, so with with girl number two, we're gonna ask again more interested in her. I would have definitely grabbed another drink with her. So why did you run for the bus? I definitely feel like a program to schedule at times. So you already saw how I liked to maximize my time in active, these friends and all that. So I almost get the thought that I should be this long in interested possibly cut it off after an hour and lead like some miss mystery amounted. But were you running to another date where you are literally running for the mom rubbing Home, Russia and the doors? Oh god. Okay. So basically, you were interested in extending the state hypothetically going out with her again. But why did you not ask her out again? I know I'm hearing the feedback so far in singles interested, I have this fear of the rejection tax message and already hearing two girls like me. And when I thought they were like mad decent dates. I'm like, yeah. I think that should bring to a theme that we saw yet. Because this was a theme that we saw with them. But with others also is that they felt that the short date indicated that you were injuries gist. It I would have felt the same way. All the girls, basically said that one drink is not enough to get to know someone and they understand the I drink things might be awkward, man. They are willing to give it more time. That was me occurring at fonts you're having a good enough time you should extend it in release. Another all of these women said that they felt like the date was. Is cut short abruptly abruptly in that to them signifying that you were not interested in then when you didn't follow up again like afterwards. They also think you're interested. There is still a notion that the guy follows up after the date min when that doesn't happen. They if feels like they're not interested. What if like the girl was like Jason, I'm having a great time. Can we do a second drink? It's not always up to the guy to extend the day. But on the first date you literally told the waiter. No, no to the second drink. Okay. At least according to her and snowboard, no more Hatton, and for the second date the second girl, you ran to the boss. I think that's out there already getting negative reinforcement. They're all like, you're also afraid to put yourself on the line. They're afraid to put themselves on the lot. And also, I think as a girl on a date. I can always feel when a guy wants to wrap it up. Yes. So maybe you were giving off that vibe like Owens catches bus or I'm I'm gonna cut. The state gosh sure that that would prompt me not to ask for an extension. Yup. Okay. So the next three girls we speak to this being didn't carry through to these girls because the dates were a little bit longer.

00:25:05 - 00:30:05

Okay. So let's listen to girl number three. We exchange if you act messages and then decided to need a bar just like right away. Hausky Koch the bar a little bit before I did. It was the guy next to him introduced by all we had one drink at that are and then we moved on to kind of my like little favorite neighborhood far. It has been fun conversation. Nothing to Syria seems to be a nice guy to have conferred malady, easy, going easy to talk to you. And was never like really awkward silent moment. How long was that? I don't how long did it last hours. I thought it went. Well, he walked me to my house, and we have good night. And that I just never heard from him a kiss or anything or. One of the bar. Okay. So when you guys said goodbye that night were you expecting to see him again. Yeah. Early from him. Would you have gone out with him? Again, if you heard from him, I think so I think I'm pretty traditional the fence that I I would rather wait perk guide reach out to me nego-. Nagata kind of how I operate unless there was something like super bag -nificant than about them were kind of wage Magadan. I guess maybe it wasn't for like memorable. Among leaving like we had fun. Hey, seems to be like, smart and cutting. How would you read the skill of one to ten probably like Bevan since? Since if Jason called you up for a second date. Now, would you say I would probably say should have done that again, number two gainful? Yeah. I probably wouldn't be interested. It's been quite turn. Now. It just seems weird to me that he didn't reach out to me and often like no follow up as if there had been all up, you know, like even a leak after the day. Like, oh, yeah. Let's go out again. I said I was more driven for relationship. Sometimes fall off the tracks in I think with this girl, I was kind of going for more of a when night's dinner hook up. I definitely do a good job of accommodating to people not for the sense just for being that they did comment or do a lot of research. But I remember getting in there. I ride on time. I've been known to never ride more than two mislaid on a day. And I I got a drink. I, but I was able to find a spot in the bar very loud in was little bit hard to hear. So that led me to go into nother bar in the one hour rule. I know oh my Lord by wondering rule go figure in yet. I hate to like catch signals that like it was more of like, fun or playful. So what casualty you break the rules because you didn't see potential office line. I think so insure. Listing will resume the signs that she was giving off that you felt like it was more. Casual she talked about working remotely a lot but working at bars often and being like, oh, I go to this bar like two PM. I know the bartender. It's nice because I can see my clients one day, but the year to borrow another. Unlike that's interesting, so high drum gay. Yeah. High drinking bit more of a work hard play hard, very talkative. You still unassuming you found her attractive less cast. I found her attractive. So why no follow up even if it wasn't a relationship. I know and. In retrospect ethics. A great question. Again. I think I was more physically attracted than emotionally and physically in I've often receive these three words, no romantic connection a lot with girls. If I got the follow up texts. So I was like we can have a good time in two three hours. What do I really owes somebody response or like, maybe if they fall up we could do something again. But yeah, I just figured what this time. You know? I I had a lot of fun. We talked about all sorts of things like tattoos. Crazy college stories living in San Francisco funny for states. You knows a good time in the moment. But in San Francisco, do I owed somebody something I don't own anything. You what you're telling wasn't re-. You had a great date in the moment. But then afterwards, those feelings may be disappeared. And you didn't feel like it needed a second date. Correct. I didn't run to the bus. I had ten units. A catch the bus. I enjoyed walking her back. I also thought like type a guy that kisses often on a first date in a bar with people.

00:30:05 - 00:35:01

I remember her even saying, I don't usually do this like look at me. But I thought most she'd invite me back in for home seaward help save up by a one night stand when dinning moon, which he said, he's gone. Yes, explains. So many of the what I thought were great dates I've been on on. I'm not on the home. I was like he's definitely text me tomorrow. Okay. Never heard tonight will the real in one of our other observations clipping gives a good time for this is a lot of the earlier girls that liked had an overall good time in some of the ones that were still going to reveal. They said the conversation was good. It was last a lot of questions you were good conversationalist. But it was very much detox. It was like the basics getting to know, you lay didn't walk away with like a strong like this is Jason and he is different. Because of x y and z, and I will sing it. This one of all of the people actually thought the conversation was the most interest has you weren't as calculated to like, you said you were telling stories you were just like acting like you were old friends more it sounded like ward leg jovial in lake. She also non he were interested because you did kiss like a no you're saying. You don't typically do it. But some of these other ones may you're swinging too far on the pendulum of be too formal in not yet too serious in not necessarily affectionate enough. They're basically just getting vibe that you're not interested, and you also weren't as concerned whether she liked you or not because you receive that validation from the kissing in the flirting so it didn't get in your head as much on this date when a did on the other dates when you didn't receive what you thought would be validation as interesting he is definitely interested or I shall we? Go to the next one literal number four. All right. Let's take a quick break. So I can tell you about our sponsor mock cloth with all the rain in California recently. I started looking for raincoats and found the cutest, yellow raincoat and Maud cloth. And then I start thinking about the spring and found so many pieces with a perfect pop of color. I'm kind of on a yellow kick lately. So everything I bought had some sort of yellow in it. So what are you waiting for it hit the site and discover something uniquely view. This is the perfect time to stock. On dresses and swimsuits for the season ahead with Motte clause. You won't ever have to worry about fit because they carry sizes from doubles zero to twenty eight in their team of mon- stylus can hook you up with complementary sizing and styling help special for dateable listeners gift fifteen percents off your purchase of one hundred dollars or more. Just go to lot cloth dot com. That's spelled M O D C L O T H dot com. An inter- the code dateable at checkout. That's D A T E AB offers valid for one time use only an expires may fifth. So get on it again. Go to Motte cloth dot com and enter the code dateable checkout to get fifteen percent off your purchase of a hundred dollars or more. And now back to the show or I shall we? Go to the next one number four. We started off we went to the page for and God, I want to get a drink or maybe two there and then went over to horse other little bit dumb down the street and go another green fair and dissected conversation nothing out of the ordinary that like pops out kneeling anything like we're that he shot her dead. It was a pretty getting to know you kind of first date have fun loving guy. Who's Swedes polite say like either team genuine to me off all the questions and listened? And then what I plus gyms he'd give her or or, you know, tell stories he was a conversationalist. I enjoyed the time that I found him. But a couple of a couple of things that came up on the date that this kind of thing like maybe pick not like the fit for me. I'm a pretty like brisker as berry like go with the flow kind of person. And he seemed like he mentioned at one point and even opined coming about like how really clean and. Like he made a point to talk about how he never was vision that think is like really Heidi person. And I know I'm like, I'm a hot mess, and I felt more together than I did. So maybe he wasn't as laid back as you would be. Yeah. Maybe hey. Yeah. So against haunted the date end. They can't that's something about wanting to go golfing, and I was like opened this game again. But also like wasn't. I wasn't like judge fed on it. You know? But then after the end, I've never heard her Magadan we so he brought up a second deed. And then what was the exact response gave him? I think I said like, oh, I heard that that new one opened. So I d like willing to go. I'm open to it. I Don birthday for they can be kind of awkward, then usually willing to give them a second chance.

00:35:01 - 00:40:02

I wasn't like I absolutely never want to see him. Again. I feel like that. Like, I said he never asked me to go all the good. So I just kind of like get reach out back to after the gate either. Jason Reese out now and ask you on a second date. What would you say? I'm kind of feeding them one how so it would need to take into account. If you to read the date from scale one to ten what would you give it? Governor. I it was like an average for state will eat expect. What's your reaction? I was a little bit nervous right away. And he does a good sign for me. We were talking about similarities in music, she was younger, and I'm twenty eight going on twenty nine not that I use my hinge age range, or I fault too closely. But I would say probably minus three plus three with my age. So this was like hotel little young, my one of my friends my go-to predate. Texter she was like, oh interesting. She's a little bit on the young side. But I was like, oh, I think why not there's a connection which oftentimes you pick up so easily in text messages if they're talkative or not. And so did you did you like her again, she would define herself as free spirited? And she didn't feel like you were on the same page. What's your reaction to that? I was definitely tracked it to her. I do remember. And I hate when this happens on dates we start talking about whether it's a burning men or Coachella and. And sort of more along the lines of like recreational drugs in them. I think I'm very inquisitive on dates solid. Continued ask questions use those good people skills. But I don't know if I. Yeah. Could relate the entire time not going to happen. Yeah. I do remember. She was relatively new to the bay area. San Cisco recent college graduate. So I thought provided the F it was more like scripted. I definitely like, oh, these are my favorite spots in the city. Have you ever been this bar in when you were mentioning earlier not getting to know the real Jason the bubbly Jason probably wasn't there. Which is why did you not contact her? Again, another question. I had it wasn't that. I had another girl lined up. It was more like a like a really working on being more bold than this fear of rejection to a certain point. My Dane light getting texts from the girl the next day after I responded, I was like pull up my. Phone. I know it's coming often, the a dear John Deere. Jane message had a great time. I didn't really see anything in as we've discussed here. Most of these girls would have been opened for a second date. Yeah. Having onto something in the past in impacting by didn't even really even take that leap. I mean, this is clearly one of the themes that we saw that they all were open to a second date. They all wanted you to contact them. It's definitely coming from the past. And also your fear of rejection has put so much emphasis on how they feel about you so much so that you've repressed your own feelings about them your like, even if I do like, this person, my fear of rejection is not going to allow me to developing more feelings for this person. And that's unfortunate because these were all great opportunities for you to see where these these dates could go saying, they might I was more worried if they liked me with me giving it another. Try. Yeah. Okay. You were so you you weren't going to reach out again not because you weren't interested. But because you are so afraid of that rejection, dear Jane, Email or tax do not Email. Hold on not so much to say to you idea. Set a debate on the Dr. Visualizing so much that rejection tax that you didn't do anything you network just defeated. I've even let myself sit on now I walk out run out to the bus of just. Yeah. Again, preempted quickly. Yeah. Right. No feedback which is great now last girl. Let's listen to what she has to say. News projected, a prequel date where she is the justed going on medical thing though. I those those creative in the when I first met him. He was very big gentleman where he treated us. Both too many golf got us both Adrain gone a lot of options out myself and was very place. He was a good conversationalist. But I just didn't feel that initial bark fat chemistry die looking for in a romantic partner. It felt more friendship. I thought of judges lead dot he was a handsome guy. I just didn't by myself attracted, I guess in the chemistry sense. Was there? Anything about the deepest stood out in your mind, where we would where he picked to go was really creative. And I liked that. He did ask a lot of questions about me and seemed annually interested and in getting to know neom relief. Sped others. Not it seemed like you're pretty standard runs the mill because I Dave finish.

00:40:02 - 00:45:00

Just was missing that chemistry component for me. How did the end both? We finished our round of mini golf. We both called our own. Uber's band said our goodbyes and that was it. I didn't really expect to hear just because solid. We didn't have that old chemistry. Yes. So you never the default up or anything. Would you have considered meeting up with him again? I'm honestly not shirt. I think it's always nice when a guy hall is that after the date whether or not they ought to good time or not it's the sort of trickier in they Philly ghosting pretty common. These dating own skill one to ten how would you read the date say five where was good to know him for for the time? I think that we just didn't have that mutual chemistry attraction on both ends. I think it is. He reached out now to ask you on a second. Would you say by now just because we went down in October. And I think we're both a little lukewarm on the date. I think the the Rony ethic heart that's failed. But I always would be open to being threatened. I remember this one. You know, being on my schedule putting it into my calendar. I always would put emoji with the activity. We were doing onto that much. So I had left work. It was a little bit out of the way, which was fine. So I believe we picked a time that was best for her commute thirty minutes before the day as my making my way over she had mentioned is there any way we can move it in our later, a possibly somewhere closer to me. I live in this area in I had responded a bit like shaken by like this last minute change. She went back to the same plan. But it turns out I got there early. I had some tacos I was texting a few friends. That's awkward to meeting waiting there. I think it was in the fall a little bit cold. If I had known, maybe two hours before would have been great of kind of like in this might be just one of the types of examples, but I was a little bit like discouraged. Going into the date from this last second plans, it's like a two way exit interview, by the way. Yeah. I love getting something to sing in inter the inside. Yeah. I was sorta trialing out dates spots in. I thought it was a little bit hard to have chemistry when we moving from hold a whole. I would putt like let me focus is. Tiger Woods and like. I think as a first date, it's tough. I won't has been on dates. It's a great date causing can be fun and playful, but I agree if you're trying to get to know someone have a conversation in is a tough one to forgot where talked about on hold to when we're alumnae mold ya. Nineteen Poland one. Okay. So did you wanna see her again? I was definitely physically tracked into her are difference in schedules in lifestyles, I was intimidated by her occupation. And that sort of almost led me to want to actually give up on this in knocking my self enough credit for where I am. So you're into her you just doubted yourself with it in. That's what prevented you from following up again this when I'm going to say, it's more fifty fifty. Okay. Don't really appreciate when someone arrives late tonight. Yeah. I have a question for you does every social engagement outside of dates do set calendar invites guilty. Yeah. I even put like morning Jim tomorrow in my town yet are play. Yeah. Yeah. Cooling down on. That is probably what I will say cooling down. I I find that aspect of you endearing I think sometimes the things that you think make you. You a little bit quirky or maybe a little neurotic are endearing for people. And for the right girl. She's going to think that's really keeping. Let's plan. I think there's a line though. I think like being planters awesome. It trust me. So many are female friends, including ourselves have been like why can't our guys just get it together be plans sugar. So that is a great quality. I think the where it becomes a little difficult is would it prohibits you from continuing on with something. They you're having a good time feeling like oh carelessly marked two hours of my calendar onto the gas one not everyone's like me. So just because I think that deed needs to end at nine in I moved to this time doesn't mean that other people do it could be just having conversation seamer there at are you having a good time, which you like another drink. I didn't even do that at any of. It's super easy. Yeah. You can just say I'm having great time. Right. I would like to continue when you gets. You're the one driving the situation, you're. Not so much. Like are you having Brian having good time? Right. You wanna come along for this? Right.

00:45:00 - 00:50:05

Or not a lot of the women said that even the two to three hour days. I think they were slightly better. Because there's more time little laws them said. Like, oh, it's the first date. I know that I'm not gonna really get to know this person. Like they've kind of shocked it up. That's the reality. I states. So the people that were just cut short. They just didn't think there was enough time. Yeah. And they also took it as a sign that you more interested in. I'm the one who took it as there was no chemistry. Right. I am still I have to realize in. It's so easy when you can text somebody or message somebody on an app in talk about just about anything. You're suddenly in person with a stranger. Yeah. Take some time more than layup more. There will be awkward pauses. And a somebody might be a little bit on, you know, uncomfortable yet. And I think that brings to conversation to it's clear that you asked really great questions and our conversational, and that's great. I think the one area that people mentioned was like. Stood out per se in they would have maybe been more open to making that I move to you. If there was like, it was an incredible connection and just the best day. They had I think a lot of the felt like it was an average to good date. So maybe bringing high you are with friends, and like other people in your lives to those dates like, I know personally leads the best days. I've had is when you walk in feels like you known that person forever. And you're not asking like that where you from. When you do you can fold that in. But like just kind of telling stories like you did with that one day that you didn't really care if it went anywhere. I g actually ranked you probably the highest in terms of just overall conversation fun. And that's good advice. Everyone according to all the five women, we spoke to seems like people standards refers state or very low yet. Okay. They're kinda like it was good enough for me to go on a second day. It doesn't take much to have a good enough for state all you have to stand out a little bit for that for a state to be great and. Ways to do that is I always think that your first time meeting someone in person should be a continuation of your online messaging yet. So where are you from what do you do that should be all out of the way by by the time you see each other in person? And so by the time, you go on this in real life date. It should be like, so why did you get into this occupation that you're in? Why did you move to San Francisco? That's more about the why. And that people connect is more about why do you Jason chose these life choices? And that's how I'm going to know the different layers of who you are. I second that. I definitely agree. Like get the small talk out of the way. Yeah. Because like like, you said sometimes you only get one date or maybe if you ask for a second you get. But there are times that you do only get one day. So you want to make sure that you maximize that in like make it something memorable. So ideally you follow up. But even if you don't they feel compelled to follow up because it was such a great day, totaling. And I think we hear this a lot is that people have great conversations on an app because it's easy to you have time to think of something weedy you can talk about random shit. So you can bring in that same personality. You are on the dating app to Israel life. You are going to have a great day. That's where that chemistry comes from definitely wanna work on fall through. But is it too desperate to ask for if they're interested on a second date as your work as you're in the bar as you're walking out of the bar, ten minutes from now when you get home or no? All the way to stay on. It was like women so neon. If I would know. Afraid of coming off this is so like, psychologically were also self referential. So all these insecurities, you have are actually criticisms you have of yourself in the grand scheme of things nobody thinks about you that much nobody thinking, oh my God. Jason so desperate right now. For ask me on a second date while I ain't nobody gives us. No. She is more thinking. Oh, it's very nice. That's pretty assertive. Like, what do you have to lose? I think it's like the fact that you did nothing with some of the us in than they could've gone somewheres Warta lose than if you had hypothetically message them like right after the day. It said like when can we see each other? I had such a great time or even on the date. The worst case scenario is they say, they weren't feeling. There's no way can have chemistry with everyone in this world. It's just not going to happen. I already have a leg up. Okay. You just showed us your hinge profile on how many matches you've had so many. I've never seen a guy with that. But neither have I I think it's before you need. Then you have more confidence for reason I like to lose right? You don't know that person you just need to carry that swagger into real life assume that they aren't interested less. They tell you that they're not in if they're not then no loss for all these women. They've said the only thing that's holding them back from seeing you again is time too much time has passed just a suggestion.

00:50:05 - 00:55:07

Maybe you just reach out to girl number two in see if she's open to see you again. Why not and just see what happens? We'll do. A follow up episode. Julie said, what's I have the lose? If I may. Options. I just adding more these thoughts in my head in continue about it. Yeah. So I guess after this reveal how are you feeling about the feedback? I feel like I need to go on a date, right? After this. Nice to meet you. Yeah. You wanna? You wanna put it all to practice now? Right. Yes. So much of this conference that even know I had in real life. That's the thing. I think we all think the worst. When in reality. I think most people are open to getting to know, you your your so in your head in your so methodical and all about self discipline. That you forgot to feel things on these dates you forgot to like reveal what about this. Let's put it all to good use. What would you do differently on your next date? A Korea about making somebody comes from the star. Kinda check in on them. If they're having a good time or even saying, I'm having a really great time. If it's not too late. Would you wanna governor drink perfect like this is a good stepping stone for a second date? I think that's the other thing is like if you get validation on the first date asking for the second day. Yes. Very natural. Yes. In one drink definitely plays into the shot in the dark mentality. There. I'm really confused. I even confused with myself looking back on it. Why would dash out the door? Yeah. We run very. The girl. How confused she was. I mean that could be your intro to Herbie like, I can't believe dashed out. Yeah. The bus. We please go out again. Yeah. I want a second chance. Yeah. I agree. There really is nothing better in that evening than getting the no fresh face, high not dating she'll be fun. Ryan as it should be fun. You should leave a deep thinking that was really fun, even there was no chemistry. I would also say this. And I think this goes for everyone is that if you invite someone on a date, you almost wanna look at like you've invited them to your house. So how would you treat them as the host of this party for two? So they come to this bar. You're like wine to make them feel comfortable get them. Adrain? You initiate the conversation drive the conversation 'cause bear guest in your house. Right. And I would never say such colder bear questions like where are you from? How have you been there? Like you hear those questions of party? I'm just like I need to go. Grab a drink and find somebody else a chat to Ryan immediately. I guess it's pretty fine to just be funny right off the bat or like. Yeah. That's a connection. I think this goes I would kick off takeaways what I've been thinking this whole time is specially with the losing the date talk. Because you argue yourself in someone doesn't like it. Then you've learned immediately if your paddle or not. But if you date talk with just basic conversation, you both walk out of there just being like, I know about them like factually, but I don't really have any opinion of them. And I think that's what happened a lot of the times is was good date. But it wasn't a great date in. It's better to have a great day or a bad day in a way. Because then at least, you know, someone's in with you or out, you absolutely might take away is if you have to ask yourself, if that's okay to say or do on a date, then your way in your head yet. If you have to sit all is it, okay? Okay. To do this or ask for a second day on a first date is it, okay? To say, I'm nervous. Stop questioning yourself in the second. Takeaway is we often we've talked about this before we have this win-lose mentality. When it come in. I want to win her over. I want to be the winner in the situation. Why can't dates be a win win situation? A win win situation doesn't necessarily mean there's a connection in your go on several dates a women's situation is I'm getting something out of this end. She's getting something out of this something positive. I've learned something new. I had fun on the state. I tried out a different bar on the state. That's a win. And what am I providing for her that she's also winning those are all wins? How can we make dates win win situations as opposed to winning someone over? That's wonderful. Completely open yourself to being the listener. This is the thing. Why Julian I do not like rules for dating? Because a lot of those books will say ask lots of questions on dates. I actually say the opposite because some. Sometimes when you ask a lot of questions, you don't listen to the answer. Yeah. You just heard what? Thank you. There's two extremes. You don't want to be the person that has nothing about someone. I think having a free form conversation like it's an old friend or someone who are like just shooting the shit with like, I think people oddly remember conversations about nothing more than the generic leg yet. What he do where you from all the daytime talk. You just have to turn on your curiosity. If you ask a question, and you have another question lined up yet her answers, so intriguing you have other writings about this topic.

00:55:07 - 01:00:01

Right. Asks us, quite or if a story that you could think hasn't I lay doesn't have to be questioned answer question Yasser or story vol question like it can just flow at my very last takeaway for you. Jason's your for me as well for everyone. Nobody has dating figured out now. So don't go into days thinking on making all these mistakes. She's not from your feedback of all five girls. All of them could have done something differently or better. Right. Nobody has shit figure it out. So it's actually better to bond over that. On a date. Like, I dunno. I've been dating for a few years, but I still get nervous. Not regulated dislike rate down the barriers. Yeah. I still get nervous. The sometimes I still question my jar human person. Like, yeah. Like this like, I'm like have it all figured out? I know exactly what I'm doing with all that. Yeah. I think the last thing is that people just get so held back by rejection. It's easier said than done because I know I've been there as well. In the spirit of rejection fear of things not working out yet. It sucks. No one's gonna say doesn't suck. Yes. It really SAS to get that text. But you also have to look at it. Like, okay. This person wasn't a match for whatever reason they just weren't the right fit. Yeah. It shouldn't hold me back from needing that match because I don't ever make the move because the rejection you'll be rejected because you didn't make any every rejection just brings you one step closer to that person. Who's right for you? Right. So it's actually better to have. These rejections they're bringing closer differently as held me back from being in a relationship in in. This is such a weird ser sentence at some will tell me, but they'll say Jason look all your matches. Jason you're such a good looking guy. Why aren't you in a relationship? Now. I know it's we know the answer on the answer and all up, and you ran away on the at the rejection yet running to fear even being a bit more in the moment in imagine. If you went on a date with someone just like you who is like I need to end the day at one hour. Even though I'm having good time. And I'm going to run to the bus in say, I need to do this. Or that imagine he went on day with someone just like that. Then you two would never get anywhere. Because you're so like in these rules. Why don't we validate each other more? If you're having good time on a date say it if you get home, and you you think I really wanted. Let him know. I had a great date text. It why is it so hard for us to let it? Out. Why are we holding it back? So you know, it goes as one is you don't need to look for the validation. But also too we should give more malady giving control contrived never young thought about saying mango having a really great time tonight. I've never said that on a date. I think it's the games. Like, I say to him definitely in my like early twenties too late twenties as victim of the games in a soon as I dropped the games. That's when things started falling into place yet. I one hundred percent of the games is what is holding you back. Like you said if your goals relationship playing games start out that's like nowhere near being authentic. Not wanting somebody to be in your life. If someone is holding you to those games, they are not ready. Yeah. You're scam artists direct gambling you other. Got you right at you. You weren't even giving them neutral signs your about signs, you were not interest. Yeah. I know and. Two are. So smart. The exit interviews see this Steelers. Thanks how about new job, right? When I walk out the door confident dater. If I ever thought, I dating batik, which I think everybody doesn't really natural a lot of era. Or getting rejected by fuel renown. Newell already great. I mean, so we do we change lives here at they not lot of you. And subscribe, this is a great conversation. Thank you for being honest with us and be open to this experiment. Most people would not be this is some scary shit. Yeah. Now, you want to come to our website into our website to kosh coaching. We're willing to do this experiment for others as well. Yes, we offer this acid service to do exit interviews for you as a neutral third party in. It's not as scary. I think what everyone thinks is they're going to be like, oh, I was so unattractive to that person there, so ugly. All these like, really like physical things that really hurt it. Yeah. Reality in in that book, I mentioned that actually was never the case has the fact that they went on a deep unless you're totally catfish about the vet. They went on a date with you in the first place means that they were mildly attracted to you. It's usually something else that's going up. Everybody who heard I. Did data come into the dateable studio was I going to be frightened. Are you going to walk away with this? You know, very upset. And I'm like everything you said I have like a warm feeling running through me in hearing that I didn't have a connection with one of them.

01:00:01 - 01:02:38

I need to get used to that. Because as you said, it's yeah. For also. So that you a felt a connection directly. Directly. None of us are tangents here. We're not trying to win. Come pageants connection. Just trying to find a connection with light one person. Right, right. It's just constructive feedback. But I think what's important is because I did the exit interview as an experiment ten years ago. All my own by myself with three of the guys I dated it didn't work out as well because they're going to sugar coat ally. Their feedback in they weren't as honest. So it's nice app. A third party who has never met you to do this. Because then that becomes constructive feedback. You can use for few emanate push them a little further TI. We're very good at pushing. If you like to be a guest on our show. We're also still booking guests for season eight you have a story you wanna share or topic? You want to discuss let us know. All right. Thanks again. Jason for being in our studio at you so much. Thank you to the five lovely women who were also open to this experience. If any of you girls wanna do an exit interview us youth dated let us say shade of exit. Chain of exit interviews. Chain lighted daters all over that would be an task. Now, we'd be my dream. It's like up in the air which worked Clooney when people know they're getting fired. I call you. Oh shit. Here comes to exit interview girly. Okay. We're going to wrap this up. Stay little your action item for this week is to do an exit interview with someone you want feedback from it's only through feedback. We can learn and grow. So as scary as it may seem plan on tap into that information for personal development. And if you're uncomfortable doing the exit interview yourself, understandable, have a friend do it for you. Or get us to do it. Checkout dateable podcast dot com slash coaching want to continue the conversation. I tag an any post with hashtag stay dateable, then head on over to our website dateable podcast dot com there you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos in our coaching services with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze. An offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums to connect with us. Find dateable podcast on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We're also downloadable on Spotify. I two and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review on I tunes. And most importantly, remember to stay dateable.

Dateable Podcast
Yue Xu & Julie Krafchick

Is monogamy dead? Are we expecting too much of Tinder? Do Millennials even want to find love? Get all the answers and more with Dateable, an insider’s look into modern dating that the HuffPost calls one of the ‘Top 10 podcasts about love and sex’. Listen in as Yue Xu and Julie Krafchick talk with real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes, and first moves to first loves. Whether you’re looking to DTR or DTF, you’ll have moments of “OMG-that-also-happened-to-me” to “I-never-thought-of-it-that-way-before.” Tune in every Wednesday to challenge the way you date in this crazy Dateable world.