Season 8 Episode 13: Sexual Racism

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. As up listeners. Come hang a mingle with dateable crew and your favorite past guests from six to eight PM on Thursday may twenty third. We're teaming up with nine four one social club where you can join the rest of party afterwards. If you like and get up to ten free drinks at ten bars. Come join us for happy hour at one bar or go the whole crawl the choice is yours use the code dateable for fifty dollar tickets. And so we can tell you where we'll be meeting. Visit our Facebook page for the event or go to dateable podcast dot com for slash Polk street pub crawl and use the code dateable at spelled DAT. AB LT now back to the show. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable of show all about modern dating. Our topic today is about race. But also about the term that I've never really heard of before sexual racism in season seven. We did an episode called dating as a block. Woman where we had two guests talk about the struggles of dating that black women in modern times, and we discussed the extremes of racial discrimination and fetishism and after this episode aired Chris our guest wrote in and said the following verse. I just want everyone to hear our studio. Guests his voice, his Chris Harris as a black gay man who's dated in both the bay area and the east coast, Philadelphia and Florida mostly I found that my race has greatly complicated my romantic life, one of my first Tinder matches ever said, I'm sorry. But I don't find African Americans attractive so with. Is name as Christie's twice six years old hails from Berkeley, California. He's been there for three years originally from Florida he's currently single in actively going on dates and definitely not dating that guy. No. So you introduced us to this term, call sexual racism can you expand more on? Yes. Actual racism is is just a term sort of defying phenomenon where people know that racism is wrong. Right. They you know, they all all about that. But when it comes to sort of dating and sex it day say they have certain preferences on certain racist. So you're cute, but I have not really into black guys or I don't I don't think Asian guys that attractive, and they think that's not racist because oh, it's just a preference. Like, I can't shake. It's like saying like I like brunettes vs belong. Yeah. Exactly. And accept brunettes aren't a, you know, historically, like. So yeah. So applying sort of that logic to to to race, I think that's what sort of the term sexual racism now, I've always been on brined or maybe like a handful of time. No action. But what I did find it to be very different from lie. Ten door bumble is that people are very blunt about certain things, for example, if they're HIV positive or which position on the top were bottom. So I've seen a lot of people say I prefer this race. But I haven't seen what you've described in your Email to us a list of ethnicities. They would not consider. Can you talk about that? Yeah. So I feel like it's been less prevalent like in the past couple of years just because it's been publicized. They're actually like websites like douchebag of Greiner. Just a bunch of scrap dots expansion on Grindr. Like. But yet there used to be stuff like I've seen this with Asian men. There was a squeaky, I know reply. That's all. Yeah. Ryan why event no blacks, no fem? So Asians is a very common often a feminine feminine guys. Yeah. So. That's a lot. That's a whole other thing. But like Juvenal mass per mask like no fans that that's what they hope lunch. Yeah. Embiid, you know, it's not the it's not the majority of profiles. But it's enough that you know, as a person of color, you scroll through and you start seeing like, okay. So I will. Gonna ask you. I've never seen that on injured. I've only seen the preference yet. I've never read the opposite of brightly. None of that. No art, we like the nation thirties. Like, what are we? It's a little bit aggressive. But again, people think it's okay because it's a sexual preference in that, you know, preferences in that arena are completely silent. Well, member like back in the day. I don't kick match actually does this any more. But they used to they asked like which races you preferred.

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So kinda like set you up for that. But actually I've noticed now that they don't have that anymore which is probably good convey David had, you know, people like me like yelling at it for a few years. So it has it has gotten better. It's not completely eliminated though. Some of the things you've said, I'm just in shock here. You had you start developing feelings for fun of yours. And he said when he was wrong was a racial totem pole and blacks in the second lowest position, only above Asians. And you've had other people. Tell you sorry is just. Preference. But then you've also experienced opposite side of this. Where you become like someone's first black guy in a fetish is you know, what is that? Like. Yeah. So it's really this weird sort of dichotomy so Mike one end, you know, don't talk to me, you know, there's there's no chance here not into black guys. But then on the other end there's this weird finisher junction. Like a lot of stereotypes about black guys BBC big black. Cock is a is a non people, Sal. I'm an saw that's the number one thing. I get a lot of grinder sort of messages will be like, oh, how big are you? Let me see that BBC. Like that sort of thing. I'm Emma disastrous graduate messages in general like a lot of. Yeah. There are a lot of gardeners. Less emojis. It's obviously taken to a different level. Seem as blood all the time. But then there about like how much they're into sort of black is like one one guy actually called him out on it. Like, I said, I don't like to finish is. But like I was still going to talk to me it was like honor when I run then he says he was. But then he said, it's not a fetish. Like, I can't even come within a black guy. And I was like you don't know what the word finish means. Then like. The definition. You've also gone comments. Like, you look like a Greek God made of chocolate was going to nice commission. And your Greek a Greek God. I love how full your lips are show. Me that ABC. Okay. Yeah. Great all openers. You've got on dating ups of gosh. Grunter? There's just a lot more fascinated. I mean, it's interesting because we had you'll eat who is the two guests. We had that you wrote in about. And they basically said that they got a lot of these comments to online dating from a straight females pursue Manitou. And they also felt that way extreme of either not intuited all or like fetish is doing do. You get comments similar to other black men. I'll say, you know, something that I've, but we should be the message in no other black person is like the prize, right? This seems to be sort of a general phenomenon. I haven't talked to another gay black person or another black person period. Who hasn't felt like either? There were discounted or fetish is less straight black men to kill. Yep. So how'd you date, then you find the minority sort of people that you're attracted to be don't play stuff like that? And so there narrows the pool a lot. It's a lot harder. I think I've had fewer relationships than. Someone my age who's on active on the ops. Do you feel like there is a lot because you mentioned the two polar opposites, but you feel like there's people that are in that middle ground. Yes, there is a there are people who mental round. And I have met them in. I've dated some of them. I find often people even in that middle ground on they'll have more sort of sallow things going on a lot of guys I dated, you know, I look through their Facebook. Now that access they happen to be black is I was like that's interesting or they'll be like merely into black culture like this one. I used to date like anytime. I went over to his place you'd be watching Kevin Hart like Kevin Hart like funny. Not that funny. I bet you need to be watching him all this guy. Yeah. So I feel like some some of those people in the middle may be aren't you know, as explicit about it. And don't, you know, say sense Davis? But they might you know, harbor some sort of fetish Acer, or they're they might not even acknowledge it exactly be though. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause that's what I find with yellow fever. I mean like you can't. Be watching alley wall. All right. Have you heard anyone that like wasn't like that that just like boys of Blake dated all types of races? And you were just one of many who wanted to on your hands get taken out. Done it. So you also have a preference for who you date as that. That's one of those things that you know, I was spared people for have racial preferences. But then one time I was like texting one of my friends about this new guy. I was dating. She's like, wait. Let me guess he's five eight white and he works in tech. That's that's right.

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So yeah, I feel like I tend to gravitate towards white guys, or I am genuinely attracted to all sort of types of people in I have dated all types of people. But if you want to count the frequency I date white guys allow what are your opening aligns like I'm in love GR chocolate. Cozy. No, my overnight usually has to do with their profile because know. Isn't that a preference or is that it is a preference and is just as wrong as the people who say, they don't wanna date guys? Yeah. I think it's one of those things like I mean, black people we alike have all the same media growing up. I think whatever sort of forces that made white guys that are also operating on me. Do you think though, it's just because the people you encounter, or do you think it's like, you're actively seeking outweigh man? I think it can be who I encountered just because I mean, I'm a scientist. I'm in grad school, I traverse in a lot of spaces that, you know, there aren't that many people of color, but then also like when I'm on the apps, I look through my Tim matches ninety percent of the white. There has to be some selection there. What's available yet? You do say in your Massachusetts that you've been turn allies some of this sexual racism as well. And you're finding it difficult to reprogram your sexual desires. Have you dated other black men, I have slept with the Backman? I don't I haven't dated and what stopped you from dating black, man. I think it's a prevalent thing. So again, the spaces that I- diverse around, especially the LGBT community. I find relatively there aren't that many day Blackman even game a team in. Yeah. As far as yet people that I've been interested in most people, I wanna don't wanna date me. So. I think just as a rule of sort of probability. I think it's like as far as people I actually date it just ends up. Not being a black, man. No black man has asked to date Muniz. No. I'm not into black is is just the opportunity has really you've lived on the east coast and the west coast have you seen any differences between the two area or three 'cause I guess he lived into place. Yes. Yes. I lived in Florida in Philadelphia during college all of the same issue sort of a by I feel like in the east coast cities. There does seem to be a bit more mixing going on. I would like it would be more likely for me to find those people who would never say something like that. I'm whereas on the west coast is like everyone this very, you know, socially conscious liberal and everything there's actually ideal. There's less sort of mixing of of different races turns trusting. Yeah, you know, SF is a pretty diversity. But Mike if I'm go walk down Powell street, the people working in those buildings will be a certain type of person. He does interesting meal differently. From the east coast originally, I feel like I very rarely see interracial couples here. However, I don't think there's nearly as many African American black people here. Maybe it's because of from that point of view, there's a lot of Asian Indian like other races this journeys. This is so crazy 'cause I'm so I'm so hung up on this. Ryan dir. Averages. I feel like we live is MRs go k a large gay community and a very politically driven always protesting fighting for certain rights. This is the last thing I would expect from a ready marginalized groups that's been fighting for their rights for so many years. It just really surprises people do not see this as the same as the other discrimination. Right. Really good points. It's not like just like the standard heterosexual white guy. That's like been entitled his whole life. It's very different group that has fought for exactly they've been marginalized and they've been fighting for the rights in in. Why are straight men? More woke about the subject. Do I get millennial? What why is that you will never find this on my straight dating app or website? Even keep more thinking it. They would never write it on there. I think about that a lot actually because I actually don't think that straight people are locates probably another thing. I think straight people don't find the need to glasses preferences, just because they have more choices in so many different ways of meeting people in dated. I also think in the gay community. This is certain sort of Frank miss that comes with the especially Reiner. So like, you want to say how many inches you want your due to be read as while throw in that light went race saying that because like I feel like on tender, for example, men will say like sexual comments to women in an it won't be responded. So yes, they give to man. Acceptable.

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The just save this stuff. And like like you said. Yeah. Like if you're already throwing out all this. Why not add one more men like a lot of the points? Like, the BBC is specific to black man everything else up until then like how many inches? Are. You said is like probably they're sending that knew anyone. Yeah. Right. A why isn't grinder making this? You know, not okay. I feel like comments like this will be taken down on other sites. Yes. Render actually is they have a couple of initiatives where they're trying to actually sort of fix this. I don't remember the names of the exact campaigns. I know they started a magazine call into that as a bunch of articles about this. But yet as far as a police in content rider doesn't like really do much. Save. A lot of time. They want to weed out like advertising, Mike, people try to scam. People who like, yeah. Also, what would be offensive? What about this? Took out down everything offensive. There would be. It's interesting 'cause like I would love to hear your opinion of just like media portrayal of the black male because we talked about this quite a bit on our last episode of black female in. There were a lot of stereotypes that day brought up elites in suffi-. Our guests like talking about this angry black woman. Yeah, hardest yo when like if black men when date them who wells you and like the trophy of the white woman. They talked about end the skin color too. That color ISM. There is so much color within the black community as well. They were saying that someone made a comment like your life skin, a good thing missing thing in the Asian community too. It's better to be light skin there. So what what are some of those that you've seen in media? Yes. Far as a sort of material at of black men, generally media. I think there's actually a long history of that. You know, current media often has the black guy as strong Emmett sort of very sexually forward. Very aggressive. I find that people sort of expect that for me. And then yet if you go back to the early nineteen hundreds with is all these films where you would have the Sambo character like just the big brute wants, lots of physical strengthened. But no sort of mental accurate like like that's kind of just the stereotypical minutes. Been you know, Saif sort of refined for the modern age. But yeah, it's really hard to find black men in media engaging in ROY. Romance a same way. You would see a white man doing. I just saw the movie last week if Beale street could talk just like a very romantic movie about two black people. I realize I haven't seen like no long shots of of black women looking until black man's is like I seem that sort of media before. So it's just white is sort of the default in ideal. They have you know, all these rich stories in them. Whereas, you know, black men and women are usually one or two tropes. Yeah. I like the basketball diaries ally, the bad like basketball also against. So how do we how do we navigate around? This like what is something? What you been thinking about in terms of how you can improve your dating. 'cause there's nothing we can't change other people. What is it? You can change about how your dating that can make the experience better. I really try to have conversations about race with anyone sort of like dating. So especially like when that guy was like, it's not a fetish. Like, I I actually made a point to say no that like is vetting of this is where you know. I can't change people might I used to be bitter about all this like that's my point of young. Yeah. So me just like engaging conversations. When someone says something that's lightly off, not to make a big deal about it. But just say, hey, by the way, that's not that cool. That's a really great way till like approach to I've been in those situations. It hasn't actually even been like myself per se was like with another way female, and she. Toppling needed really off colored comments about way, gay men in like, it was like one of those moments that I was like, I should say something. But I didn't know how far you should step in his swing. You don't know. Well, but I think that really is the only way to like help educate me bulletin, you not to do it in like, a why would you say that? Hey, like, actually, those types of comments like aren't okay, and John. This isn't the context of another game. But is actually one of my co workers we were at like a work retreat in. I don't remember how the conversation started to she was describing her ideal man in one of characteristics was white. I kinda winced a little bit. And she's like what wait what what? Well, you know, you're kind of eating into white supremacy. When you save and she, and then we had, you know, not too long of a conversation.

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But like a conference she was very uncomfortable. But I think that's, you know, shell think about it next time she yes. Listing all those characteristics. She might think twice about saying white. One of those things. I know it's like it's been a debate debates like, oh, like if I say, this point of view, they've got to like, listen because they obviously think of I think this one the what she said, I think that actually probably would stick. It was like if felt like it was very subconscious. But I think like example, I gave that girl was blatantly say something offensive. That's what's conflict to me. I'm like isn't even worth my time saying slings, if some kind of change someone's opinion, but I think in retrospect of this happened again, I would absolutely say something because it's like that is the only thing you can do I feel like people are confused because there is a level of sensitivity that keeps increasing when everything we're saying, basically like I feel like I can't say anything anymore adding somewhat right? Yeah. So there was that big debate back a couple years ago where at like restaurants, if they were identifying tables, and they say, oh, that's a table with black people that table the Asians. And this. Was exposed in the awesome. That was an okay right for then. At the same time is an easier to identify when you're running a business. You need. A quick identifier is an easier to identify people by race. But when you're expressing preferences. Why is it offensive to say my preference is a certain race? Not only are you offending all the people who aren't that race. But you're also offending all the people who are putting them all in one category. So it's kind of like that generalization and Syria typing offensive. So it's like where do you draw the line? Right. So to you, Chris where do you draw the line, where do you say, it's okay that they put that in their profile, or that's where I draw the line is always supposed to do is moving sort of everyday, I'm but as far as it comes to dating preferences. How I approach sort of my profiles and everything. Now, I would love everyone else to do is talk about personal characteristics. That are not attached to any sort. Of classroom. So like, you know, I like guys who athletic funny like that's all break. Once you start saying in white like that. Yeah. And I like to sort of differentiate between sort of like curse Mel racism, systemic racism, and a lot of people will descend it offhand comment like that. Like, I didn't mean anything by it. But also feeds into this larger system. That's when I have the issue of mental. I we all have to change a rave your one by one our grandkids for gonna be listening to this episode like twenty thirty years from now it'll be like what the heck that has next jazz. Every my grandma. You know, a little bit tan around easy always gonna be raising. But I will say as far as we still need to go, which we definitely do if you're getting comments like this like early we're not there yet. But I will say we look at like our parents generation, it was like a worse like people just won't even conversing like my parents like I was raised Jewish like they only date or socialize or to other Jews. Like, it's come a long way. Like, the fact that there is a torrential dinning the fact that we are having open conversations actually is a lot more than where we were true. Yeah. We've made progress we can still keep making progress in the only way to do that is to call people out. I think the people who are open to change are open to these comments as well or feedback faith that word saving you some feedback. Also, if they don't react if they do fight you or like, they're no I am right. That is their opinion. But I think what you said like, hopefully. Later on as they're talking again. Or like they're thinking over later on the day will like remember hailing limitless give this some thought should this be my thought pattern or not -absolutely? So what are you looking for Chris? It's time to take a quick break. So we can tell you about our current sponsor mulled cloth. I've been on a shopping spree of modcloth lately because I'm in full spring mode recently. I just got those sincerely yours. Vena Claus in a gorgeous yellow color it drifts so nicely. I guess so many compliments on it and cloth. There's no such thing as an ordinary outfit. 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So get on a now again, go to mock cloth dot com and enter the code dateable DAT at checkout to get fifty percent off your purchase of a hundred dollars or more in back to the show. So what are you looking for Chris ailing for a long term serious relationship? Naga mmi. That's a good question. Grinder? Initially. I was looking for sort of a term relationship. I was approaching every interaction like potential long relationships that wasn't working out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I more have the opinion now of just like interacting with people in see where they're at. And what they want in just being open to a whole sort of range of things as a single person, you know, everyone's allow idar and grinder for up 'cause the. Exactly. Yeah. And then I'll go on dates with other people that you may be looks like a more long-term term thing that may or may not work out. Yes. I'm I'm looking for a range of things depending on you know, where the other person is. So you're pretty up to whatever you're looking for a connection of some sort is. Yes. So what are some the struggles? You have now where are you? Finding people to date yet. I'm mostly like again using the apps just because that's the easiest way to meet people nowadays such Mike small amount of people that we actually made in our everyday lives. Yes. Far as trouble. I don't think I get that many matches on like dating. I do use have been grind as like I'm on Tinder in it you things like that for a while. Okay. Keep it was doing all this really cool research that on of peoples of different races. And of course, you know, black men got Yan responses of them than white, man. I think like I know we spoke with two black women that are on the show before like, it is a known fact that black women are at the same level as Asian men when it comes to Dini's, right? Like what is response rate? But at least my perception of black men was not the same. I think there's something it's a science. That's almost like elevated black men like some of the stereotypes you were talking about there or like the strong like my. My back stereotypes like there's a lot of like this like good-looking stereotype. But it's also a fetish, right? It's a participation but also like I don't like I don't ascribe to that. I'm not super aggressive. I'm like, I don't know the gym. But just for like looks like. Not because the stereotype we're Mike white people, for example, don't have like one stereo stereotype, monitor you're saying, basically because you don't fit the stereotype of on movies TV shows than you're not seeing that response. Right. Yeah. I haven't I had a first date where the white guy like, you know, we match you talked to tender. We met up in these like, yeah, you were a little more whitewash than I you know, would've thought which I mean. Yeah, I'm not I'm not fitting those stereotypes, I don't really pretend to. But I think you know, they look like if I have like shirtless. Bicker Sunday expect. Exactly. Not just white. Like if you look at like celebrities, white celebrities something like Brad Pitt. Matthew, mcconaughey? No, white guys actually will click them either. They're not like, oh, you didn't fit my leg. Why is your percents word? Different for black men because still the majority you're still surrounded by white people all the time. So, you know, there's various shapes and sizes of white people in portrayal. Those various sizes advice -olutely are as with minorities these certain tropes. And we we are getting for the past a lot of we're making progress, but I still generally white people are allowed to have like unique interests and likes and everything and black people are use their color as the main characteristics back thing like that all have ya. Which I love hip hop. I do not like this. Your own community. Like black a game much started. There is there any pushback rainy challenges you face as well. That's kind of beyond this whole dating thing. Yes, with there's definitely a black game are such a small group that a lot of those in a group dynamics, I feel like just as the factor we have to travel pretty far find each other. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as like other gay black men, there's a certain school of thought that actually because of all these sort of reasons that we should not be dating white men. Same gender loving men is sort of a term. They don't even want to use the term gay because the gay there were day has gotten to just like associated with a certain white highlanders like like stereotypes of.

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Yeah there. There's a group of people who, you know, I'll go on a date with a white guy in like going on dates with white guys. Like you have to do it yourself. And like so, yeah, there's there's some of that amendment. Also think there are a lot of sort of people who were just like, we're rare movies just find it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I definitely do get some pushback as to some of my really good gay friends in New York about about this topic about race. And they said this observation to me I have invalidated yet. But they said you see less interracial gay couples than you do sink or. Couples. There's a lot less intermixing of racist. I don't have any statistics. I would I would definitely agree with that. So the characterization even though you said earlier that it's kind of like because you're already a smaller. Groom you're going to like expand as many of you on explore more. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess when you're white just sort of have the most options, that's sort of what you built for like when people say interracial in the gay community oftentimes they're saying white with a person of. That's awesome. I, you know, a Latino men on a black man like some people were even like that won't even register as interracial relationship true. That's true about the baseline is white mixing that. Really, right. Yes. No. But it was like Asian bloc you dig into racial, but I don't know. That's a first thing you label your go to you just be like blagent. Racial may have another word for that. Yeah. There is no other word for white mix would make one. Robot? So good. White doing. What? Anything? I mean, the topic of race is always just so interesting because there's always the external factors. There's all these internal factors like what you struggle with in terms of identity preference. Something let like I can definitely feel as well. Even like, the Chinese female community. You have like different groups, you have the girls who only date white guys. Right. And then you have the group that only dates Asian guys. And then you have the group that's like look down on both groups. There's just like so much judgment from our own Pete. While it's weird that translates into dating so much like dating about finding love it should be happy should be like positive Rier. We putting so much like discrimination in thity to it north attraction just one of those. It's a topic that so hairy and sort of something that no one ever interrogates. I don't want to put out the idea that people are intentionally being racist. Right. They're just like not thinking about their sort of natural predilections that have been influenced by the society. It's not like it's the same situation. But if like women, for example, like I only like six foot tall guy five and under that is discriminatory shows the it's just not race. But it's still unfair the flame. They can't change your race. Right. But what about also just men who are bisexual say? My preferences men, I ate both. But my preference is men. Can you really argue that? No, you can't. And that's a lot of people that actually out of all those examples probably the one that you can least argue right? You could be like, really? But. Yeah. About gender. I feel like gender has been put into different silo attraction to a certain gender. Seems more inmate people's right or sort of. Yeah. People joke all the time. It was like gay men are sexists 'cause they like women. Unlike. I guess. It's hersal. I think that's what it is. Because if you lay type like height or limb rain, that's a characteristic about you where like guess gender is too. But it's like so broad that not like a sexual preference. Is it really do? That's their preference. I guess you could argue that could be get reference with small. Yeah. You repaired sexual are like, you know, the good ones here. Discriminates subway, but suburb or social acceptable than others. The isn't that true? So let's just be honest. Mall. Have these nations that are innate in us? Some of us have to unlearn them or try to figure out a way to get past them yet. But a stems from our childhood is down the media stems from will we've been taught I think some of it too isn't just necessarily what you feel like like I was talking about earlier like our parents generation was way. Worthless minded than us like I think there's some of that that seeped in.

00:35:03 - 00:40:00

It's like from an early age is who you should be with or like, this is what a couple looks like like all of that kind of taught to you subconsciously. So it might not be that like, oh, actually not attracted to Indian men or Asian men. It just might be like I've kind of like brainwash that like that isn't who attracted to. I'm not saying personally. Right, right. But then again, I'm I was raised in a unfortunately in America. So I was raised in a Caribbean. Immigrant household. There were certain religion seven-day event is an I was always told you need to date someone from the. Carribean in that religion because oh other cultures like a cultural problems that you don't make. It was never sort of, you know, says militias thing, but they're like you you really need to let any of their vice obviously. That was always sort of a speculation. That's why are the next generation actually has a fighting chance. Our generation actually sees why that was like not. Okay. But that's next generation is fucked because the paradox of choice there's going to be attracted to so major from people like no idea with reverence. Then women and whatever. Whatever the problem. So let's address some takeaways this conversation these conversations I feel like they could go on forever. Don't talk about race gender all of this nation's so many so many, but I guess one of my biggest takeaways again is when you think about your own personal preference. When it comes to dating put them in into different categories one is like the superficial characteristics in to the emotional characteristics. How you want someone to make you feel and when you start looking for a partner for your lifetime were even for ten night. Think about like what are the characteristics which which bucket? Do. I wanna poll from it's just purely for a one night stand. All right, fine. Go for your superficial bucket. Right. You're never gonna see this full again. Why not? But if you're looking for something serious, and this is where people blur the two is when they're looking for something serious. They start with a superficial characteristic thinking that the motion characteristics will follow it doesn't work. Work that way, you have to start from the emotional bucket, and then you become attracted to certain characteristics. I always say we have a tight because we've only data certain people like what you know. Exactly. What about the characteristics have data? You like you have no idea if you like some whose like five to right? I don't know. Right. The day that person I think my takeaway is like everyone the days a human being like I think anytime we try to put a blanket over someone like one. It's just not socially great things do right. But that also it's kind of like, you almost feel like you like know who this person is before you actually, meet them that person isn't who this person has visualized from media from whatever stereotype they have then it falls short even if it's not race. That's like not a really great way to go into dating to have a feeling about someone that really has no basis because you've never met the exactly, you know, the other tick way, I have is a love hearing stories from other groups that I. Don't identify with. Because now I'm starting to see that everyone has very similar struggles before talking to you. I would have thought gay black men had a pretty good same. I assume right. That's the percent Ryan there's already like this elevated idea of a black, man. And then you have or. What you I thought you would have it pretty good. And so I'm not saying it's great to hear these struggles Christmas minutes. Also, it is good because now we can start. It's not so much about like oh can being your shoes. But it's about empathizing. I can feel empathy for other people's struggles. And I think sometimes too. It's like, I think part of it is like there is that leg BBC. Yeah. France, right. Like, it's there. Seek like a guy that isn't big. Right. Would be like, oh, it's a compliment. Like, why are they like upset why people ought set about that? But then at the end of the day, I think it comes down to anytime you are called out for a characteristic that again may or may not be true you based on like a stereotype that doesn't sit. Well. And especially that's only reason it feels like someone is talking to you. Yeah. If it's not based on your personality or your own unique characteristics is just purely based on your skin color alone. That's just not a good way of complementing. Someone we talked about this on other episode to if someone comes up to you and says, what would it would it that guy say came? I can't even come without a black guy. The black man the room can have one. I like.

00:40:07 - 00:45:04

Even like the Greek goddess goddess one it's like Greek God. Play. It should be a couple of because you're like calling out the race. Like just doesn't sit. Well, exactly, I still remember I had one stand with someone in New York and the next day he texted and said, I can't stop thinking about your beautiful Chinese pussy. I thought that was like the most romantic thing because to me, right? Your day say anything. That one I stand because I made it a one is it. Was never gonna see. Not good not. Yeah. Any other thoughts for us? Chris any other like takeaways during cigarette. I think you summed it up pretty well. And I would just say both on my end on other people's end. I wish as people dating we just treat each other as individuals and not members of groups the only way to do that is to continue to have open conversations. I think for years like in our parents generation even like as of not that long ago. People just didn't want to state the obvious like they didn't wanna like bring it up in. It's like, okay. Like if there's an elephant in the room lunch. We're gonna just address like you can't yak pretend it doesn't exist. That's like worse in a way. If I say something offensive, for example, vice as something offensive on this podcast. I would love it. If someone wrote to me as that you use of this offensive because of that. Yeah. I wanna hear the explanation. I'm great with criticism and feedback as long as I know where it comes from anybody can be ignorant. We just meet. To know the basis of then we know to change our behavior. Right. It's only when we call out people for saying something offensive by getting mad at them by calling the names or showing our anger. It's counter productive. Right. So we just have to explain why certain things are offensive. I don't remember actually who coined this term. But I'm actually liked it. Instead of calling people out you should be calling people in that grind. You should really, you know, say that was wrong. And this is why and this is like not have as attack on that other person on them out into a discussion with you. So you can learn a rate you're pulling them into a circle of trust here. Like, I'm gonna give you some knowledge. Now, you're part of the circle that knows his knowledge. Call him that again, opening the conversation up really the only way you just yell at them. Then that's a conversation. It doesn't work. But Chris have you thought about my being a little open to your preferences? Yes. I'm definitely make more of an effort up high to spread of wide net over here. A wise. Are wide net of listeners. Chris we will love to introduce you know, preferences at this point, right? Keep a super open. Maybe it'd be a blind date. Happy fun. Sure. Blind date. Maybe we'll think of something fun for you guys to do if you wanna be set up. Let us know maybe you to come back on our show. And yeah, a little like lowdown in St Louis down if you are a straight black man have a different opinion or kind of just story that you would like to share please reach out or any other races. We have not talked to yet. We definitely wanna keep station going. I know we've just hit the service. I think you'll eat so wrote to us on Twitter being like, hey, the talk about black women. So we did it. And now if there's other races that want to be heard and wanna talk let us know on Twitter, Email, whatever. And when we say other racists, we also mean white people. Yeah. I wanted to I want to hear from white person who's been finish. Is. I wanna know what that experience feels like we wanna hear from you guys. We don't want to single anybody out either. So okay. If you like to be a guest on our show, we are still booking guests for future seasons. So just reach out to us at dateable podcasts dot com or a white guy. That's been discriminated. Oh, especially now might are. Definitely. Place at the moment. That would be good. Okay. Yeah. And you that we love to hear from you. Okay. Let's wrap this up Jane along your action item for this week is to confront the conversations where you feel offended hurt or uneasy instead of calling people out to Chris's advice and Coleman in speak from your point of view of why what is being said offense. You don't be afraid to challenge the conversation in a way that is inclusive in educational want to continue the conversation. I tag any post with hashtag stay dateable, then head on over to our website dateable podcasts dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well as article videos in our coaching services with vetted industry experts.

00:45:04 - 00:45:29

You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums to connect with us. Find dateable podcast on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We're also downloadable on Spotify. I teams and other podcasts plot. Horns your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review on I two and most importantly, remember to stay dateable.