Matthew Solomon of ManSchool and The Good Men Project talks about how men can approach, date, and relate with women in the current climate. We discuss the reverse effect of giving up on dating, balancing consent with conviction, and coming from a place of understanding.
Sponsored by Wander Beauty for 20% off your purchase of beauty supplies using the promo code DATEABLE
Season 8 Episode 17: Can a Man Still Date in the #MeToo Era?
00:00:00 - 00:05:05
The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. We've talked about the metoo movement before only as part of other topics, and I think it's worthwhile to devote in entire episode to how the metoo movement has changed the dating landscape and what we've heard on our show, and also from our guests are some men are very confused about what they're supposed to do these days, we had a guy say, I don't even know if I should lean in for the first kiss anymore before asked me for consent and other men have said, I've given up approaching women at bars in general because I know I deal, what is right. And what is wrong your? So I think it's so important to have the discussion with our guest, Matthew Solomon, who is the coach for the modern soul in power coach specializing in communication relationships in the author of the number one Amazon new release man school relating with women in the metoo. Era health fitting, he also writes, a weekly column too sensitive for the Goodman project, which is how we found him Goodman project. Hi, matthew. How are you on great? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us, just a little background about who you are. Because you already know you're forty six years old. He's lived in LA, all his life, and he's currently in a monogamous relationship. So mad you in your article can Amand still date in the MU two era. You give very nice historical from nation of the metoo movement, which stems from two thousand six can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah sure will allow people don't know this, and I, I didn't actually when I started writing the book, the metoo movement, was started in two thousand six by a woman named Toronto Burke, and it was originally started to support mostly women of color in sharing their stories and having a safe space to do that. And it wasn't until after Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein in all of those cases came to light in two thousand. And seventeen. When the online movement started with, with the hashtag me too. And so, you know, it's very important for me, especially as a white man in this conversation to, to acknowledge where the movement began in that it was started by a woman of color, and that it was started some time ago in on two thousand six and it wasn't until recently that has really become publicized. Why do you think that when it was started two thousand six it didn't really make as big of a splash as it did recently? Well, I think part of it definitely social media, and, you know, with Twitter and Facebook in hashtags, Instagram like all of that. I mean this is just the way we communicate now, share information. Whereas back then it was just not. I forget when actually Facebook was started, but, you know, five even have hashtags back, cranny. So I think it's just how we evolved in quotes through social. Media and how we share information and communicate in the culture is different. Get black lives matter and that movement. You know, like erupting out of social media with that hashtag, I think social media has given us a platform or cultural movements. And so, I think that, that's, that's a big part of that I think, for better worse to like celebrity involvement dried is, properly is just gonna get media attention by drug issue. Alyssum Alana was was who I believe. I posted a metoo story. And, and that's yeah. Being a celebrity it brought light to it. The fact that hashtag me too was time magazine's person of the year in two thousand seventeen just shows how massive this movement is. And I think at this point we have some listeners who are probably asking. Why are we interviewing a man about the metoo movement night? Nick, this is a good time to pause and just say, I think one of the issues we. Faced in recent years. This is what we gather from talking to our guests to is that we have excluded men from the conversation, which does not help us movement forward at all. So for us to get anywhere we need to include men into this metoo conversation. So this is a good time to acknowledge, and I think also like the whole metoo movement. Obviously, it's very powerful for women to that have been like could of hiding this these experiences and not coming to like public terms with it or making it like shameful in the past in kind of open. Now that has been great, but I think the piece that we haven't fully discussed that we hear from, like rumblings, is the male side of what has been the impact on that side as well.
00:05:05 - 00:10:04
So I think like to your point like at love till it continues, talk about this more holistically. Yeah. So Matthew in your opinion. What are some of the biggest changes you've seen coming out of the metoo movement in the dating landscape? Yeah. For men and women are like you said it the in the opening. A lot of men don't know what to do or how to be, or, or what's appropriate. And what's not? I think it, I think, in a good way things got shaken up, you know, the way I came to be involved in this was I've always had women who were friends have always worked with women in my coaching. I work primarily with women. And so I've been listening to women's for years, and they've shared their stories with me. Good and bad. You know, a lot of horror stories, especially in the dating world than end as somebody who was single and dating through all of this. I've heard a lot. And so when the online movement happened, I was aware of all of this stuff. It was still very humbling to see the amount of stories being shared on my timeline. But I knew that those experiences were happening. Now. There were a lot of men who haven't had the same experience as I have who had no idea what was going on. Didn't know what to do. You know, we tend to not just as men, but as humans we, we try and fit other people into our framework in what we understand. In, in our experiences. And so a lot of men were pushing back or victim blaming or China, say that, you know, we'll maybe she misunderstood what was happening and things like that. And so, I started engaging in those conversations from a place of really trying to help men understand what women have been sharing with me for years, and the more I did that. The more women were like okay finally a man who gets it. Please write a book or teach a class, or something, which is what I ended up doing. And so the man that I've come in contact with run the gamut from, you know, they're sensitive to this, in the understand, they wanna know how to provide a safer space and still be men in lead date. And all of those things to, you know, the full other side, as you mentioned, which is there's men, who, like we're not going to go anywhere near women and men going their own way in the in some movement. And I think the majority of men are somewhere in the middle, we know something's going on. We're not sure what to do. What's really say for appropriate to do anymore, and it's a space for leadership really for us to? Really figure out what we stand for is people in and how we're going to interact, and how we want our relationships to go which we're not taught in school, how to have successful relationships anyway or how to communicate either. So it's like this. Big light just got shown on, on all of us, and the, the lack of education that we've had in how to really relate to each other. Can you elaborate a little more about what the insult movement is for anyone that's aware? Yes. So in so is involuntarily celebrate. And you know, men who are citing that it's too scary to approach a woman in a bar for instance. So I'm just gonna go home in masturbate. I'm not going to I'm going to be or did just be totally celebrate and not interact with women, obviously helpful man. Like I think it's great that this is coming out. And especially for the type of man that are kind of the catalyst to me to booth met lake clearly, a lot of that's been side swiped for years. And I think it's great that it's being brought out into the world. But I will say that there's probably like. The majority of men that are good men that I don't wanna speak for all women. But I think most women would agree that they don't want men's just be afraid to approach into any bore. So in kind of Hotta we work around this yet will, I mean that's the question. Right. 'cause you were talking about consent. And so a lot of the debate that I deserved is men feeling like we have to ask for permission at every step, right? Can I kiss you can I touch you here? Can we do this? Can we do that and women on the other hand saying we want the consent conversation, but being asked this in this in this over and over again is a big turnoff for the word we meet in the in the middle on this, and that's it's really it comes down to being sensitive and aware as a man, being sensitive and aware of, of what women experience. So that when I approach, you, it's from a place where I, I have that in mind and that doesn't mean I'm asking for permission at every step. It means that I'm I can lead from a place of creating space. Creating a safe space as protector provider, it will like protector and provider has been like what the archetypal man has supposed to do which in the past was killing our dinner and protecting our homestead where now kind of evolved into I get to create a safe space for you to express yourself, and I can still lead and being my masculine, it just looks different. What does that look like in practice? Yeah. The wrote a column for or article for the good men project called consensus fun. And I talk about how we can create partnership through consent versus asking for permission. So it looks like we're on a date and instead of asking can I kiss you now I can look at you and say I'd really love to kiss you right now.
00:10:05 - 00:15:06
It becomes an invitation and something that we create together versus like I'm asking. Yes or no? And you're saying stop or go, because that's adver cereal it sets up an adversarial thing. So in us being partners in what we're creating is I would look tissue right now. How? About if we go upstairs, look to see you again, you know, all all of those sorts of things where it's an invitation versus asking for permission. It's like we inclusive which I love. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, one of the things I said in the article, which is we as men kinda take on the persona of like that soap opera guy who is confident, not, not cocky, not, like fake, which just, you know, feeling that confidence feeling ourselves in our bodies and knowing who we are. And what we are able to provide, as a man, and I'm not talking sexually I'm talking about, like, who we are in the world. You know, we get to provide safety, we get to provide leadership by strength in power, which allows women to be open, and receptive and in the flow. And, and that sort of thing. Right. I think it's interesting is like a spite all the changing gender roles and it has got a confusing of like what to do and how to do it. But we still hear women all the time saying they bought a man. Man, that's gonna lead in not ask every last question and kind of come off as meek in all of that. But it's like what is that balance of doing it in a way that's respectful in? That's not like in a way that's harassing in all of that. I think that's the piece that I love your examples on thank you. And it's important to point out, not every example, is going to work for everyone. Some women like their men to be more aggressive in some like them to be more passive in. So it's really comes down to finding the partners that you kinda gel with in the end. It's okay if you don't gel, like, that's the other part because we as men are brought up in a society where every woman is supposed to want us. Otherwise, there's something wrong with us. You know, if she just wants to be my friend than I failed in some way, where what's thrill is we have chemistry with some people, and we don't have chemistry with other people. And that's okay. So we actually had a listener right in that was abroad for awhile and he was moving. Back to the US had seen a lot of this. In the news and was very hesitant to date in, in the United States. And he was basically saying that, like even in the current climate, like hooking up or like things that you would shortly done on a first or second date, like he didn't want to be in that unknowing group of metoo perpetrators from your thoughts. Like have you heard of other folks feeling this way? Or like what advice would you give him the? I mean I mean you look at the cell movement men going their own way. I mean, that's, that's what that is. I mean, that's what it seems to me to be as men that are afraid to approach a woman or have sex with a woman, or you know, whatever because they don't wanna be accused of rape, or sexual harassment or anything like that. You know, the, the advice is to, again, just being sensitive to what women are dealing with are there have been women who take advantage of that for the most. Part in statistically, the false accusations are like two percent. It's, it's a very small percentage. What to a man who's on the receiving end of that? It's a scary thing, and it's a very real thing. And so with anything I mean, you know, we just have to really decide like I said, who we're going to be in how we wanna show up and be discerning. That's the other thing we can slow down and spend time with a woman before getting into bed with her and decide if this is really somebody, I can trust to have a relationship with whether it's one night, or ten years, I feel like this goes back to what I was talking about the very beginning is that this conversation has been very inclusive of men sell I have a lot of male friends who feel like they're walking on eggshells when they do talk about this, so they ended up avoiding on dates. They don't wanna talk about it, but I almost feel like for guy who's trying to navigate the dating scene right now, I would encourage you to just bring it up on a first date to talk about the me too. Movement back about like the confusion that you're facing talk about things that you're not understanding, and just haven't opened discussion about it. And I think for the right person of the girl would normally reciprocate and be open to that discussion. Well, I think that's what's been really great about the movement, is that it's brought aware dish in that open conversation, because, like I think Matthew you alluded to this earlier is like a lot of men in saying that they were bad people for not being aware of the struggles that women deal with, but I think a lot of people just weren't aware of like the even if it's not like harassment but just like the need for safety like I know a lot of times, like, we'll talk to male listeners or friends in, they'll be like a wide you Google dates in.
00:15:06 - 00:20:11
It's like we have to as women, there's things that we just have to do, and I think that like the metoo movement, brought this forward, which was really great thing, just having those open conversations is a big piece of it. I mean it's definitely it's good. Nate conversation as a man, you can ask, how do you like to be approached? What do you look for absolve, you know, leadership and consent end, you know, having those conversations on a date with which I pad. You know, there's never been anything detrimental by having those conversations of you know it should be talking about what I do for work. And that kind of thing you're in a monogamous relationship. Have you had this conversation with your girlfriend yet? We definitely had these conversations is. It's a new relationship, but actually it's funny because we're both very much in the social Justice world and have had a lot of these conversations anyway. Even before we were remanded involved. So it was all very natural coming out of that yet also it's like your work ethic s. Which is a good segue. Because I think the biggest area that this is interesting at least in my opinion, is I feel like historically, a lot of people met in the work place. Like, I remember like on my first jobs out of college. There's so many marriages that happen from that workplace in people dated it was like such a way to meet people. It's obviously people at sugar interests that you around all the time, but I feel like with the metoo movement. It's made people really gun shy because it's not only harassment but it's rasping at work. Like if things do go wrong, I guess, in your opinion, are there ways to navigate dating in the workplace, there's this kind of like a no-go? I don't think it's a no go, I think I think, with anything it just comes down to communication, and somebody that you're interested that you work with does being upfront in and saying that because I were the problem gets in there was there was out. Gosh, there was a viral video a while back that was demonstrate. Sexual harassment. You know this man was interested in this woman he was working with, and he was spending late nights at the office in. They showed them like leaning in over her shoulder. And when they relieving like he had his hand on her back all of these things that were he was trying to, you know, make the moves so to speak, but not in a very direct way. So she was not sure where to draw the line and say, stop and he ended up kissing her which he didn't want. And then, you know, so there was this whole thing versus were, if we worked together and I'm attracted to, and I say, hey, I'm tracked to you know, I don't want things to be uncomfortable at work, but I'd love to buy you a drink or by a Cup of coffee or take you to dinner. Then you can say, yes or no. The area where it gets in a problems is, if I'm your boss, then it's a trick trickier situation. There's depending on the company they have laws and rules and stuff about that. But I think it's fair game as long as you're up front about what your intentions are. Boss, has always been a great area even before the me too movement. I think what I'm gathering from you. Is that workplace like, I think people are much more shy to do the work place because of the consequences, but a gather from you is you're just upfront and respectful in if someone denies you going out. And you, you just have to leave it at that, like, keep pushing, or do anything, that would come off in a way, that's disrespectful, Rozelle. Interesting fact, I've been the victim in fourteen sexual harassment, videos, I've done in free EBay or Amazon, Goldman Sachs, and the army we're video site. Don, there is one theme throughout, which is it's always a superior, who is hitting on me. And there's a power struggle and the conflict comes from M I jeopardizing my career, so I'll give you example. My EBay, one was a senior manager. And I are on a work trip together and it's late at night. We're going back to her hotel rooms. And he asked me. His hotel room for a nightcap. And I say no. And he's like, well, you're reviews coming up soon, though. How do you, you know, Mamie wanna reconsider because the last time I did one of these videos is probably six or seven years ago in light of the down at I wonder if these videos are changing, because we don't think about, like your colleagues in that kind of mindset. Right. Like colleagues go out get drunk in the night up with. There's none of that. That's be brought out in these training videos. So I be so curious to see what has changed so we did a recent sexual harassment training or like they did address that in. They did make it clear that like, like, basically, like to carriers were off limits. But if you had someone of equal ranking basically just need to inform the company, but like you were okay to do it, and you, but I think like the part that gets gray is like, when someone's not sure if the other person's interested because there are couples that exist.
00:20:11 - 00:25:11
I'm sure. It just feels like at least from my observations. It feels like there's less and less of that happening this day and age. I feel like ten years ago. People were meeting at work all the time. And you just don't hear that as like a top way people need anymore. And I just wonder if they're correlated in some way. Yeah, that is interesting because I'm also thinking back to the scenarios, I've been put in for these videos. They've all been very action oriented, not words oriented, so like for the army, the Guy Roux, fade mate. That you got. Passing director saw me they're like she should be sexually harass yet. Always been very action oriented. But I think with me to move minutes, also bring up this fact that like a lot of this on the verbal as well. So maybe that's like another side of it that wrought to light or is just the people are more like a wear in general again. Like there was always sexual harassment going on, like you've been at these videos like these people that came out as sexual harasser. So they just started would be to started by this has been suppressed for years. So it's always been happening. I think now is just more front of mind. So probably a guy that isn't necessarily a sexual harasser is just like having the thoughts go through their mind more. Like, if I do something in a way that is it well received. Oh my God. What if they report to HR exactly where in the past may be? They just didn't think about it in. They dislike acted in not a sexual harassing way, but they acted were down. They're not acting. And there's sexual harassment the other way around to write women sexually harass. Oh matter. But how can we don't talk about that as much? I mean, I, I remember one of my male co workers back in the day, had a female boss who always asked him. Hey now on the weekends. Always wanna one in it. Nothing ever came of it. But he was just so annoyed by it because she kept I mean harassing him. I think there's a couple of days. I love your opinion to back, but I think one it just like doesn't happen as frequently. So they're Satnam is also like since women are perceived, not as dangerous, Ryan. But I mean like women are never even though, like in theory, they could be just as dangerous through. There is a perception that they are, like, not someone that is going to assert themselves as much. So there's like a safety factor. Ryan will end the other element is, ma'am. There's this perception now were only interested in sex. And so if a woman is sexually harassing man in that context than. Has like, well, what's the problem because I supposed to want it anyway. But it's but that's, that's not the case. If you look at Terry crews who came out with his me, too story, he got a lot of backlash from men and women in their like, but you're this big muscular guy. Why didn't you just say no? But it was like the power struggle like you're talking about where he was concerned about his career. And so, you know, men are perceived as, as weak if we're declining the woman's advances, or if we say, we're the victim of anything. And so that's an element that really hasn't had a voice men dictums in the metoo movement, have not had a voice, and that's really unfortunate because we as men carry a lot of grief in shame as it is, and sharing something around like that. And I know you know, men who who were raped in molested at very young ages who never told anybody, but and then it comes out it manifests in different ways and behaviors, you know, like we're. We're really, we're really screwed up as a society around sex, and intimacy as it is and soda, be violated in that way. And then carry that around and not have a way to process. It is really really sad, and it's a big contributor to, to all of this yet. Let's talk about that for a sack because Julian, I went to south by southwest this year. And a lot of the panels in discussions. We went to men were being very apologetic for being men. And also a lot of the talks were shaming men were being men. I know guys who they feel. So ashamed of themselves for not anything that they've done, but there's like the self loathing, that's happening in, I can't imagine being in a scenario that you just described as a guy who may have been molested as a child. And now in this climate feels like he's just so alone because there's just Ryo health for him. And I'm sure you have clients like that to what is some advice, you give to men who are kind of like down in the dumps, let's say. Break and talk about how I am the master multitasking. I was running late the other day to a meeting, and I literally was running while putting lipstick dab some the lipstick on tonight cheeks to double flush and down a Cup of coffee at the same time, kids don't try this at home, but seriously when it comes to beauty, we're all ingenious, because we have to be any beauty routines to be able to keep up with on the go live, and this company called Wanda beauty, totally gets it.
00:25:11 - 00:30:03
Everything they make travel friendly, easy to use and multipurpose such as some of my favorites like the double ended, conceal her and the color for both lips and cheeks. They're dedicated to clean, beauty and formulating everything with skin loving gradients and mean cruelty, free, Mets free and stress free for dateable listeners. Get twenty percents off your purchase at wander. Beauty dot com slash dateable. That's wander beauty spelled W A, N D, R dot com slash DAT. AB. L E. For twenty percent off wander. Dot com slash dateable. Now back to the show. What is some advice, you give to men who are kind of like down in the dumps? You that's I mean that's a great question. I mean, it's what I've spent the last twenty plus years of my life doing is to really think about, like how you wanna feel right? So if I know that I feel ashamed to be a man, if I know that I feel weak, if I know that I'm down in the dumps in, and even if I can't put the words I feel shame and guilt. But I, I don't feel empowered than how do I wanna feel, why wanna feel powerful? I wanna feel strong. I wanna feel capable K. So what can I do to do that for me? It started with martial arts. I started you know, I wanted to train in martial arts when I was a kid, but my mom would let me and so, you know, I was bullied and got beat up in all of that and felt weak until I was about twenty three or twenty four. When I started training martial arts after ten years of that gave me a place where it's like, okay, I can take care of myself. I can take care of whom whoever I'm with I was fortunate. In that the DOJ. Oh, I trained out really focused on developing character and honor and integrity. And so I was able to step into a bigger version of myself, and then in taking relationship courses taking personal development courses finding other men, who were on the same path as me that I could relate to, and I know, like there's, there's a lot of different men's groups out there, also, you know, if that's something that speaks to a man, he, you know, he should go check that out and be around other men. It's our personal journey to seek out how we wanna be in how we wanna show up in. And so what I would say two men who are feeling that way is will, how do you wanna feel? Who do you wanna be then go do the things that have you feel that way, I wanna go back to what you just said, which is you're recommending men to go to these all men's groups. And I love that suggestion except I think a lot of guys don't see that as a mainstream option for them. I mean women had to them all the time. We have retreat we thought a circle. And it's just so accepted. But I think for a guy to ask him to go to an all men's retreat or a group, I think there is some sort of obstacle that keeping the book that so how would you let sell this to them? I, I really avoid right idea. What would you say to them? Well, here's the thing. I'm not telling it either I'm saying, like, if it was something that they felt called to do, or if it was interesting to them to, to check it out, because it may not be. And, but I will say that being around other men in a safe space to discuss the issues of being a man because a lot of us, like I wrote the book man school because it seems like that would be the easiest way to reach men because who's quote, who's going to show up at a course right? To read the book by ourselves in figure it out. And then I have an online course but it's an online course that you can do at home. But then, you know if you want to ultimately being around other men in getting that we're not alone. I'm not alone. Loan in the shame and the guilt that I feel I'm not alone in feeling week. I'm not alone in, you know, having to feeling like I have to walk on eggshells you know, I wrote, I wrote the book so that we so men could, you know, read it in the privacy of our own home. And then I have an online course that's an online course you can do that in the privacy of your own home. And then and, and when you can get out and be around other men in and discuss these issues and realized, I'm not alone in feeling ashamed. I'm not alone in having things about sex that I don't understand. I'm not alone. Once we get around each other, and get that we have these shared experiences, we can actually empower and support each other in. That's, that's the thing that comes from, from groups, whether it's an all men's group or a martial arts organization, or a personal development Manar, or, or whatever it is being around other people in getting that, you know, we're all human, we all have our own variations of the same stuff, but at the root of it, it's the same stuff. So what about women? Because I feel like women's groups have just like skyrocketing. Since the B two movement. At just like feminism is a whole, which I think, is fantastic. I think it's great that women have the opportunity to meet other women that may have shared experiences or women of different generations, or whatever it may be.
00:30:03 - 00:35:07
However, I think the downside comes when it becomes, like a man bashing session, like I don't think that's necessarily, beneficial for me too movement of I mean, I think, like we talked about the in cell movement before, like think most women, ultimately want to be with a loving masculine partner of their heterosexual. So I don't know if it's necessarily helping in that regards, it's also not necessarily helping women's empowerment by just bringing down another group. What advice would you have for women kinda like wanted outlive? But wanna do it in a productive way or I mean it's, it's the same thing for men just the different size. I what do you want? What kind of relationship do you want? And are you. Gonna have that by bashing men and by saying, we'll all men are idiots are all men are stupid. Or all men are at the core are harassers and all of that not only get to choose, how we're going to be, we get to choose how we see each other. And there's a lot of power in that. And there are women's groups that I had know who specifically say that they're to heal women and men and to hold up men to our, our highest and really acknowledge us than that's really great to see Anez a man on the receiving end of, of male bashing for me. It's like okay, I get it. I'm not gonna fight back against it because cumin and win. And you know it just reinforces if I do not from a place of conceding, but, but from a place of being like, okay, you know, I get that. That's your experience. And that's, that's fine. And in relation to a woman who appreciates me as a man. Holy crap. I mean, there's nothing there's nothing better than that. Honestly. And that, you know, the relationship that I'm in is really the first. Time that I really the first time that I've really been acknowledged or for who I am, as a man in how I show up and, and the work that I do in a real deep way. And it's it's phenomenal. May I love the good men project in general, which is I feel like it's kind of reshaping in reteaching manhood. I think that's like, honestly the more like good experiences with bacon half with men that dislike teaches. Right. Because it's okay here, all you want, but your own experiences are gonna dictate the weight think. So if you've dealt with a lot of people that are Sajjan steak or just like on what say harassers, but like appropriate or whatever it may be that's going to be your like mindset. So the more like men that we could infuse like it's okay to be this way. It's okay to be like, not the stereotypical masculine qualities that will filter into women's perception, as well. And I, I find this with pretty much all of the of hosts that I coach. If you look at our TV right, TV and movies in, in media, the wave it, especially sitcoms, right? It's, it's funny if a man is is a dope. And kind of, you know, stumbles fails is, is an idiot, and the woman wears the pants in the family in berates him in all like, that's what's been fed to us as comedy for, you know, I mean, as long as I've been watching TV, which then translates into our actual relationships in, so a lot of times, I'll see, you know, the woman if a man says something, she'll roll her eyes or showed, you know, have this attitude or literally say on stupid or mentor stupider why Weyermann so stupid. And I hear that from women to Weyermann so stupid, but it's like we're, we're not we're just we're different. And we're coming at it from, but, like our perception, our experience in you have your perception your experience and the more that we can turn towards each other and partner. That's how we're going to have successful relationships, romantic or otherwise. But the more that we're. Like cutting each other 'cause then, you know, like the women say men are stupid, and then the men say will women are just irrational and. Emotional, and irrational and crazy evil, you know, thirty forty years of one of the things that I'm like most excited about of our car, it like stayed in media. Typically is like probably like this comes from the internet and social media, as good is that other voices can be heard, like, I think podcasts have really paved the way from that it's not, like I don't I don't wanna like stereotype, but old white bed like sitting in a writer's room, like writing things that are chaotic like, people speak to what is going on in current day society, in that can like get out to the masses, and we don't have to have. He's the civic stereotypes that have kind of shaped gender roles because it feels like this whole conversation like despite all the progress, we've made it all routes gender roles still. It's archetypes. And, you know, when I first started my personal development journey in, in my twenties. So that was twenty five years ago. A teacher that I was working with asked me, who is your archetype or the man that you wanna to be. And she was like it could be a real person, or somebody on TV or whatever, and I had to think, really long and hard about that, because, you know, there's athletes, there's actors by dad, who I love very much.
00:35:07 - 00:40:07
He wasn't it. You know. And so who I landed on and I you know, I don't know how old you all are. But was Michael Landon in little house on the prairie paw. Like he was the dad, you know, and he was a rancher and he worked hard, but he was like there for his daughters, and there for his wife, you know, he had to get in a fight and gotten to fight in like that was, that's where I had to go to bind, a man, that had the qualities that I wanted I didn't have time to do some takeaways think when you were talking about relationships that just keep thinking about how we have these conversations about how we want to be in relationship says for dating. We forget that part of being in a relationship that you have to relate to someone else. And we can't have these conversations without relating to someone else in. I think that's why the, the man, bashing the misunderstandings that happen are because we have these conversations exclusive the opposite sex, so we have to be more inclusive. And one of the ways we can be inclusive is we just bring up the conversation. Talk about what is happening in today's climate and talk about the things that you're confused about the obstacles that you're facing because that's also your personal journey to a makes you vulnerable in it helps you relate to the people. You're talking totally into piggyback off of that. I think it's like all comes down to education 'cause I think that's what's really been beauty of me too, is like, obviously, what happened. Why be to happen is not wonderful at all? Like that's horrible. But the benefit of it is that shed light into the struggles that women face in like what can happen, and I think that education is. Really important. And I think we need to now do the education for men. That is also starting to happen. But I think at the same time like it's educating, but not being afraid also its being open to having conversations, not being afraid to like talk it through, but also not using it as fair that you don't do anything because that's not only helping anyone either. Like I don't think men or women really, truly desire to never interact with each other in, like be beloved procreate like that isn't a surly the goal of this either. So like why? Like let fair in that regards hold you back. So I think the stuff that you said earlier is like, how do we just have a more inclusive conversation where we are curious? We question, we are in this together like that whole like realm. I think this is a big shift to that. We've seen is like even like the term relationship versus partnership late. It's like we're in this together, we are going to be equal. We're going to like work through. This. I think that is like a great strive to be because it's not putting down on gender or the other or having an imbalance in either way. And for all the women out there, let's think about this. First set like think about all the magazines you grew up reading. I remember like what was it? Osmo Cosma that one for younger t- involved. Like knows like one in between their light. Why, why, why is it why all win? Yes. Why? Okay got seventeen seventeen. When I was younger, and it was all about getting the boy in about, like, how to change yourself to get the guy how to be more feminine, how to get your nails looking great how to get your hair looking awesome. And then I, I subscribe to maximum when I was again, twenties because I was just so curious what was being fed to men and it was all about. Like, like lose Liudas car look law, how to get Jack holiday. Get. How the how the upgrade your girlfriend. So I think for all the women out there, like let's just say this. I think we've just completely forgotten about men for along time men's personal development. I think women have always been on personal journey of bettering ourselves or so many resources to us men have always been on this train of like superficiality band-aid solutions to everything knows resources or groups for them to open up about what they're going through. And so it's all tracked deep down inside in a manifest in sometimes very violent ways. So this is the time we need to help our men. It starts with men in our families men in our networks. I've been educating my dad for a long time now. You know, just telling him certain things he says, aren't okay. I think we got us are hearing of you. If you are a mother and you have a son or a few sons this is where it starts. You gotta think about, like what is it that you would is the man that you want your son to be an you gotta start educating them? Now, let's not forget about a love that. And I think we can bitch. All day. Log about Baader dating. Yeah. But I think one of the best things about modern dating is that we don't have bullshit. Like you were just saying at by, like, how to get the guy at like those like tactics. I think we're in a much like I was saying earlier, like media is like four free speech now, it's not like contrive by, like certain publications or networks in that staff, like people are having their voice in people can end of let their voice be heard.
00:40:07 - 00:45:19
And I think that's something really wonderful that we have going right now that we don't have one way to look at things that we're not gonna put into these one size fits all stereotypes of people are really questioning challenging what it means to be a man and a woman. Yeah, let's not let them amend him die here, Matthew. Do you have any takeaways? I know you talk about the stuff all day long, but, like anything new from this conversation in addition to educating men and women that we need to revamp, the schools, and the education around. Like how to communicate like I have I have three kids? So my daughter's fourteen and I have twin boys that are eleven and in elementary school. They do community circle once a week where they, you know, they talk about stuff, and they get some, some conflict resolution teaching but you know it's very minimal and, you know you're talking about we're not taught how to relate with each other. We're not taught how to communicate we're taught to debate. And so, you know, we value at an early age ally. One that one, so the more that we can teach kids to communicate and relate with each other to look at the world, do the other person's eyes and really seek to understand that's gonna go along way for future generations. That's a great point. Sharon, we actually had an original question day, from the sky, name Joel. But his question you've already answered which is hugging about how to balance between, you know, this consent culture, but also women who liked men who are assertive and taking control. So we already talked about that, Allen's, but I am a question for you from my guy, friend. Wchs that I've spoken to okay? You a completely given up on dating because one the modern dating scene is already tough as is in to the metoo movement. I just don't even know what to do anymore. I don't know how to approach women at bars. I don't even know how to approach them a line without sometimes offending them. I never know if I'm offending someone because I feel like I always do so they've said, I've completely given up on dating and I will revisit in a few years. And also, they've said, a su-, they said, you know, I have never sexually harass anybody. But I feel like these men have fucked it up for me, and I'm just so angry at my own gender, and I just don't even want to be associated more. So what would you say to these men will will first of all, I would say, I have a man school online course that the. So you know, there's that I get it and I understand. And it's it's funny because people have always complained about the dating safe like even before online dating before the metoo movement before any of this. It's on the on the one hand that, that part's nothing new like people have always complained about data true, you know, not wanting to date for the next couple of years until I don't know to what till all this blows over till we get more education and training said earlier it, it really is. What do you want, you want to meet a partner, and at what have have a relationship? Okay. So what are the ways to do that, you can have your friends, introduce you, you could you can't approach women? You know, the other thing that screwed up stuff for men and women is the whole pickup artists Tipu, Latian and tricks. And in all of that. And so, you know, for me, what has always worked is to just be genuine, if we exchange a smile, come over. I'll say Hello. My name is Matthew. I just wanted to say, Hello, amend. Whatever happens from there happens from there, and if she says, no, then it's like, okay have a good night and not taking that personally and getting that it doesn't mean anything about me, says, no, one of the things that really had me be successful in the dating world is I was approaching it from just being curious. I wanted to meet women. I wanted to know what I liked in what worked for me. And what didn't and I wanted to know from women, what worked for them. In what didn't end I kind of did dating backwards. I was in relationships all through my twenties, and then I was married for nine years. And then after my marriage I was in a two year relationship. And so after that, I was like you know what I just need to date. And so, you know, I really had an amazing time, just meeting women and spending time with them and talking and listening. And whether it was coffee or, you know, a three month relationship or a one year relationship, you know, eventually, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. Like even men to find the one or to get somebody to sleep with us or whatever it is, like there's a lot of fresher. But if we can just approach it from, I'm gonna go and meet somebody in and see what comes out of that. See what I get to learn. I loved that. And then that also like you I feel like if you just go in, like this is a human being equal you're going to like automatically not come off on that creepy vibe. I think that creepy vibe comes in, when you're trying to get something alterior motive that's happened. Yeah. Definitely and also, I just I don't believe in deprivation. Why deprive yourself of the opportunity of meeting someone great in having a relationship with them? Like, why would you deny yourself, right opportunity? Mid also, what's gonna come up in three years? It's like what's the carpeting? They will else Holter was something brand new will come up just you have to like navigate through the times.
00:45:19 - 00:48:12
I think that's like another good. Takeaway to mess is like whatever's happening, you need to dislike down. Yeah. Like be educated understand what's happening the landscape in like work with it. Not against us married through preach Google. Thank you so much, Matthew, if people want to reach out to you. How can they find you? My website is coach with Matthew Solomon dot com. Great Emily in the show notes. Do you have anything else coming up soon? We'll have some retreats coming up on the retrieve a couple's retreats. Okay. Couples retreats mother things don't want my website, and then my man school, online course, is live in, and that's home studies that you can do at home. And I have another man school book coming out the deals with sex, and intimacy. Yeah. I have that. And then some speaking engagements. So all of that's on my website. Great man court. I love it Eric. And then how often do you write on Goodman projects until weekly call him? So it's every Tuesday, a ten thirty AM Pacific time is where my, my article comes out, sleet into say, I love that we're getting an expert's point of view on men dealing with this dating climate today. But we also love to hear from our listeners who are going through it. You've gone. How about that? You've gotten over the obstacles and the challenges and share with us. What was your journey going through that women and women? We want to be inclusive with anybody, anybody who wants to talk about their personal journey of navigating. The deviancy dateable is all about okay? We're going to wrap this up J J bowl, your action item for this week is to join uncomfortable discussions. We have. Tendency to surround ourselves with people who have similar perspectives and beliefs. Some of us want to avoid conflict, but this week could you join discussion without debating? Could you join a discussion by simply listening and learning the way we can propel ourselves forward is not a shooting and avoiding join in on that discussion with the right intentions? Want to continue the conversation. I tag us in any post with hashtag, stay dateable, then head on over to our website, dateable podcasts dot com. There you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos, and our coaching services with vetted industry experts, you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums to connect with us. Find dateable podcasts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We're also downloadable on Spotify. I tunes and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review on ninety. And most importantly, remember to stay dateable.