Season 9 Episode 11: First Date In 12 Years

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. I met I was talking on hinge to this Guy Jeff who is GonNa come in the studio momentarily I think we started talking like a Saturday morning and just obediently like had really good banter and that's something that's super important to me so I was like Oh kind of interesting in like he actually like worked at Yahoo and I worked at here for like eight years so we have a copy made some joke how is like a has been media company and I was like from the nineties and I'm like actually work there you know so what were you profound the first place like he looked attractive he I will say he had a tattoo of his dog wasn't sure but gives a tattoo of his dog on his own arn on his arm I thought he didn't really good smile he just looked like I don't know I always look for people's like energy and he looks like a nice person I don't know I just I thought he was active to clearly I wouldn't swiped on him I don't know I think like I don't have a type like looks wise I don't think you disagree but I don't think I do I'm pretty like open to look some more like oh did they look like a normal human being in my physically attracted to them enough right like I also find that it's really hard our to tell on dating APPs saw generally swipe on people that look like they need those really basic things in its talk after and that's how I like figure going to date with them really fast from the conversation that we had really good conversation we just had a lot of back and forth banter. He told me that he was a past rapper yeah I thought was fascinating professional like professional ex rapper and he's like this could be a red flag turn off and I'm like this is a turn on for me I was like I told you about dateable to like wall throw it out there too and he was like that's awesome I appreciate someone that disrespects it and it felt like we had a lot in common like creatively like profession now is more like a creative copywriter professions I'm a designer do this podcast that's how a lot of similar vibes I guess maybe attributed to this show that not here to talk to people all day online I get like a good vibe I think it was actually what meredith from the League that like gave this advice like exchange like three things and then once you do get offline three messages balloon three things about her and then get off exactly so it hit a point that I was just like you know fuck it I'm just GonNa like he mentioned that he like live near this bar that I go to a lot to yes I was just like oh would you want the lake meet up next week like I just threw it out there so he was like yeah.

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I'm totally down to do that so we just like made plans on Saturday we met on Tuesday and I actually like we doc for bid on texts on Monday night before the day and even like on Saturday we were like Texas where like you hang up you hang out like it was like one of those like wasn't conversations really enjoy talking to each other how old is he a thirty nine just turned thirty nine thirty eight was when we went on a date cernan yet anyways so Monday night we're talking shouting like a law it was like good he had listened to some of the podcast it's always great thank our homework yeah so I was like okay but I made a joke I was looking at the list watch his rap videos because I just wanted to be surprised when I shut off either Ah Seo variety done this but anyway he started like saying some things like that there were like some red flags about but I was just like he was joking humorous unlike other I did get that thought of like I like texted a few friends before this date and I was like going up like the best date ever or the worst date I know where it's like what are these extremes because unlike either your I even said this to me I'm like you're either like under sally over delivery or there's some serious red blogs about to encounter right so anyways show up on the D I like didn't see him at first he came over you look where you guys at peacemaker okay so right around the corner from here peacekeeper I always get it wrong peacekeeper Numeiri trendy bar yeah and came over he looks like his photos that's always good I think a little better than this photo actually so it's always a positive sign right definitely and then he was kind of like Oh like Matab if you ought to like get a drag it's very informal sounds like like a little more informal than I'm used to but think that much of it what are you used to oh like the guy going over and like ordering the drought you say you can just go you are you're satellite very electric vibe like not like not that it was but it was just like not really what I was used to but again not a huge thing either way but then we immediately started talking about really random stuff ed like I swear we talked about colonoscopy as I have no idea no idea no idea what the context was that he made a joke to that he's like random like property for this it's like she is going to be what she was talking about going I don't remember why we were but I do appreciate dates that right like formal yeah like the best dates I've ever had or just like to friends catching up all that we're having a good time but then this is when the red flags kinda start to come out so he definitely dropped them like he basically said that he was technically not divorced jet L. separated like been with someone for twelve years stamm yeah they separated a month ago so I was his first online date I'll say tinder was on tinder is hinge but you're gonNA use an legit was like his first tinder date ever so bombs were like boom boom boom yeah and I mean I think he was like Oh is this like a huge turnoff it's not a turnoff if people are divorced or separated I think by thirty eight like you have to expect like I'm thirty six you have to expect people you're going to date have had ask relationships I think it's that it happened a month it's the time exactly it was like I was the first date ever so it was just like I think in that moment I was just like yeah and then he's also like you mentioned like his friend of his like dealing with cancer right now so we just like it felt like there was a lot going on for him whereas the Vibe I got right that's where he is right now and I think it's just I'm really looking for someone that's GonNa like taken immediate next stop not someone that's like Healy anyways though we continue the day we had a really good time time ended up getting way too drunk for Tuesday probably think got home at like twelve so it was like a long day late night and he had like asked me to go to the show oh with him on Friday what are the state end so we went from peacemaker club modern which is like a block yeah we definitely started like getting a little touchy like it was like in my head I was like a says it whether it's a viable I think like I don't know I do compartmentalize a little like I think also just as background I've come off for a couple people that were in very long term relationship basically being like I'm not ready for a relationship and that was the conclusion they came to right so some of this could be basing it off other people which I know is not fair but in my mind I was like okay the last I that I like had a spark with came off a seven year relationship now it's twelve years the next you know before that like my my accent like a four year relationship so it's just really drawn to people ill long-term relationship I mean I think some of it is like I feel like I am finally relationship like really relationship ready in these people are they know how to be in relationship which is great anyways so we went to this other bar definitely got like a little flirty touchy now I think we might have kissed remember well we definitely did outside the bar prefer inside okay so you're the first person he's kissed twelve years that's not his so then he invited me to show that he had tickets for at was on Friday when out on Tuesday went to this date on Friday like he got like in a suit I got like a nice Drat Susic Bimbo as it was like a show like a huge lounge singer that does covers it was Richard Cheese I I had never heard of but was amazing it was awesome it was real it was like a great date in like vibe through the week to just hearing from him a lot but then it will say the back of my mind it's tough because I'm like I wanna guy that's like always texting me wants a chat but in my mind I'm like is he doing this because he's used to having someone else right right just like couldn't get that out too so I'm like okay going on Saturday or Friday and mine too I'm like I don't know like I definitely wanted to hook up with him but I was also like Mrs still early and like I know it's only eight to right yeah so it was like not fully sure is going there or not so we had a great time friend of his was also at the show and the reason I bring this up like we were talking to her in her friends I hear them talking devote like his ex cupping picking up stuff from her home and stuff and I'm just like I am so the rebound right now like that is like what is in my bide like they know that I am like the rebound to write like another friend of theirs was like we saw you guys like we're wondering if you were going to go for the make out all the stuff of dislike the people were not a big deal anyway I think it's like that was just like clear that I'm like okay like this is still very much part of this person's life in which understandable Sundays we went and got another drink we shared a cab like we made out again but like not really like I couldn't tell if he wanted to take it to the next level I don't know if he had like been like Oh do you wanna like come up I probably would have I also wasn't going to put it out there either kind of like unsure of like where was going so I- disliked dropped him off in the night went back to my house in the Newburg hey so as you feel at that point he'll text did like you things that I got back I think I like like I liked him but I was like I still felt like he just wasn't in the same place as they that knowledge was in your head yeah what would you have liked him more Yeah I think I would have seen it as more of a prospect got it I think I like put it into a separate box if that makes sense so anyways like the next week we're talking I don't know what it was like I is asked like what he was up to this week in like would you want to like meet up or something and it was kind of like I don't vague answer but he's like can I get back to you tomorrow figuring like some stuff out and then like I don't know what it was maybe it was also like could be into this person I know he's not a viable prospect so mike something within me I was like I need to cut this now I dislike l.

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that and I was like I wrote him and I was like actually like I know I'm the one that suggested Wednesday guy I don't think I can make Wednesday which I actually couldn't make for other reasons but and then he he's like oh no problem like would you come watch a game with me unlike Thursday and I was like actually like I don't think we're in the same place right now and I think maybe we should like halted like I've had a really the time with you and like it's been awesome but I just feel like we're totally different places and he was like glide you said something like I'm kind of freaking out about day-to-day inland rounded up and it's almost like he was relieved a bit like said this so it was like okay like big this was the right call in my mind like not that I didn't like Kim but I think maybe because I'm like jaded from TD OPS so they're like go on a date with someone that doesn't work out you probably just don't ever see again right but he was like a worse state friends very insistent on it and I was like you know I'm not really looking for Friday Kata like looking for like by person right and he's like opie like ridiculous we really get along while like basically like why would we throw this away like he basically was like I enjoy kissing you think you're really pray haven't isn't this just a casual situation needs like like if you tell me to like stop like we can be totally platonic he's like bats how you know like you met someone cools you WANNA be Platonic with them regardless basically he's like this is a conversation like we're still talking like we're just like like I don't even know what to say don't like logically this makes sense to me his other point that I think he could probably elaborate more on is like Tom Times relationships need to build on friendship and he's like he's oh you only get to know each other right if like we just stopped talking bye bye that was like oh that's kind of what I was saying right I'm like this isn't a viable aspect so I'm going to dislike cut it out but his point was more like how do we keep getting to know each other so throughout all your exchanges did you ask him what he's looking for yeah and he doesn't know 'cause I sent him I was like I I don't know GonNa speak for all women but like it is a little concerning because of the time like it's been so fresh I like maybe someone casual would totally be fine and he's like I don't even know if I'm looking for something casual it's like kind of a turnoff so we can ask him or what he's looking for the vibeke scape to me was just more like I'm new to this whole dating thing like I'm super confused right now you said like I feel like I should just like delete all these APPs out leading it's overwhelming it's like I'm coming out of someone from twelve years look he's probably never done online dating no eyewitnesses first date which is kind of ironic to go on the podcast as your first day word you guys stand right now I guess we've moved into a friend's territory we haven't seen each other alerts territory mean I think that's the part that I'm not sure and I think this is China understand like where my hesitations come from and I it comes from the past like I think because I've been in situations before that have you never been like a friends with benefits or like a someone that I know isn't in the plane nice to be in a relationship but consumers still and I think to me I was like I'm getting out at a good time because I'm not investing we've been onto dates Dan really fine in his company it's not like we slept together like cry at that next level so maybe there is a potential that we could just like hanging Allenby Platonic ideal that TVD like I think that's the part that makes me question it like logically everything he said makes sense like why cut each other out he likes get along well he's like you keep dating like I'm GonNa be like exploring Bhai single south and like we get to know each other at the same time and see what happens and online one hand that sounds great like yeah what's the harm in that but then the other side of me is like because of past unlike concern that let's say we do end up talking hanging out all the time like am I gonNA become invested in someone that's not ready would is the best case scenario here I mean I guess you could look at it in a couple ways right and maybe 'cause it's too early I don't know what the best case scenario is one best case scenario is I could meet someone else he could either meet someone else or do golf in we're friends and we just enjoy each other's company like I said I'm not looking for new friends but at the same time like if I did meet someone great like I'm not opposed to it did enjoy his company so that's one and then the other is like things develop over time and I I think it right now the verdict is out of what is the ideal because I don't know i WanNa and I admire this exploratory stage how does it actually work are you going to reach out to him to hang out or is the onus on him Jato now and we you guys do hang out is kissing touching sex ally well in my opinion it puts it in different territories and what is that I mean I think if we just are platonic in my opinion is like no kissing no sex okay all right like that curious what he thinks your new I mean we talked about it basically sad like he's open to it but if I don't do it if I don't want it he's also open to not that's what he said to me we'll see how that plays out and what is the worst case scenario for me I think the worst case scenario is say I we get each other even better and dislike talking all the time in like hang out all the time in the it's like I'm giving attached and it's a dead end yeah that's the worst case scenario and I think that's risky to me yeah okay what are you curious to hear him talk about I'm actually curious to hear what you'll say to him or something said okay understandably me in this situation I would have no idea what I was doing right this minute and I think he's dove into data gaps trying to figure it out curious if I scared him on I am level like scared him that he was expecting to meet someone that he like actually like enjoyed being around so soon also what is he looking for but I'm not quite sure if he else I'm not sure if that will come out okay and I think the other thing is like what he envisions in this friendship arrangement yeah I think that would be interesting and I communicated a little of what he said I would be curious to hear how he describes it more like why he wanted to stay in each other's lives wasn't he just like ready to like let it go because like the same thing happened literally mentioned with this other guy that got out of a seven year relationship engaged this is like one step beyond and now we basically decided we were not in the same place it was a very amicable way goodbye but there was no like we're GonNa like stay in touch no it's like we see each other maybe we'll do a friendly hello but like there is no like we had a bond that work in hanging out right right and I will admit this is not really habit with many people from dating apps right so maybe it's just him being such a Unicorn he's not tainted by data gaps yet so maybe that's part of it is that he's just like in a different police but I'd be curious because he has a very fresh perspective which I think is interesting people on this show to here on that's part of why one I wanted to weigh interview but also Oh i think we have all these people on this show that are eating all the time it had been in the trenches for years or like even if they're not like always single they come in and out of relationships like this showing that is like fresh and I'd be curious to hear just like his feelings towards modern dated yeah anything else before we bring him in that's it okay you get Outta here I'm going to Yeah Jeff Jeff Nice to meet you for the first time how awkward is this awkward you go on a date with my co-host and my friend Julie and now you get to go on a podcast so this is like our third date right gold their data so just a little background about jeff he has been in San Francisco for three years he literally lives down the block for me I can probably see his apartment from my apartment originally from Seattle he's thirty eight years old he's divorced hooking up having fun single inactivity going on dates and dating for the first time after twelve years and Gee Omg so let's just start with that what's your back story you were married for a long time and how long have you been separated for well like early August okay pretty recent if you've been married for twelve years that means you've never done online daytonas correct so it was immediately after we decided to split up on amicable mutual it's been she's still a really good friend of mine sh moved to Berkeley I downloaded tender downloaded bumble downloaded hinge.

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weird ones to the uneven hilly or heli hood or I just don't want him all because I was so excited honestly because I was like we missed that whole wave we met my space was like we're on my facebook we'd like Florida on my face we do those little quizzes like coke or Pepsi and this has got to be super different so tinder literally like Gills on hinged by the way you're calling you won't find by now the third unofficial date her name's now jewels yeah but but yeah no tender was like super intense I actually like I was like trying to flirt with this girl on tinder and I was like she like I like to get in trouble and I was like Oh what kind do you like and I thought well maybe we'll smoke a blonde or something she was like kind of ends with me getting fucked in the ass and like yes it was like unmatched like really scary it was like leading this dating is now you know so I'm actually surprised that you thought that was scary I I thought after twelve years of uh-huh not having tried dating or dating you'd be like yeah I'm down let's fast okay now to bring about to Julie because that's why we're here anyway you go on hinge and you saw Julie's profile will wear some of the things that drew you to her profile will juozas a really nice smile as one thing or like I can tell like shoud be like I don't know an engaging conversation which is really like right now I'm just trying to get to know people I friends I which like it seems like the line for guys right but like actually I really don't want anything other than that I really spent twelve years of the person where we grew apart and in the last three or four years weren't honest about it to each other and so it made me realize that like I'd like to really get to know someone it's like we tried to make it work for the beginning time and then It didn't work to the point where we actually you know fell apart so I'm very more like apprehensive about just like jumping into stuff now you know because age twenty seven when we got engaged I think that's about right twenty six maybe I don't even know but that's what you're supposed to do you know you're supposed to get home sorry goes to get a little scotch here a little nervous but it's okay I used to do you interviews back in the day like I my former career was a rapper so I do like this show interviews and I'd always have a bottle with me it's like my my crutch fifty when you go on the radio talk about your dating life probably not ever no one was interested in my dating life at all back then and he's usually like a shock that I was married that was kind of weird yeah and here we are talking about your life so you were drawn to her hi Al and you think she'd be a good time right to be fun you know I didn't know about the podcasts until our first nose actually was before we went on our first date we went to who peacekeeper which is like right across from my condo actually and she was agreed they'd actually solit- rewind for me a little bit you saw her profile you guys match or whatever Louis Oh hinge hand not like obviously very new to the APPS is like it starts with a conversation period it's not like a swipe thing like tinder where you're like oh you're cute or whatever hinges great because you just respond they questions and I think I think maybe Jewish responded to one of my things but like you prompts and then instead of liking someone you just like answer there prompt and so you're like already boom like right in conversation so this is an ad for hinge but like so far it's been my best experience you know do you remember your conversation with jewels in probably pull it up oh gosh this is going to be so embarrassing so I had a prompt on my profile it said I get along better with people who blank just like cards against humanity my answer was like to drink socially love both going out and staying in our brew brutally honest about what they want don't try to change and don't change for me and she liked the answer but didn't say anything so that goes in your messages I thought boy Saturday I replied in the morning at nine thirty A.

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M.

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High too hung over to say anything clever but your Halloween costume sounds awesome so jewels on her profile had a bonds to like what was your best Halloween costume she said probably a bottle of Saracho which she totally should have a picture of her day to and I noticed because we've seen each other the other apps too I think I saw him bumble and she does have it on the air but like you got to have it with the proper tools come on and she applied ha ha yeah it's hard to be clever at nine thirty on a Saturday smiley face and I said Yeah Company Party last night 'cause like my Go-to I think it's like a period trained mind yeah definitely and she replied that was one of my better ones ha who's just going to ask you what you were up to at Yahoo I work at Yahoo worked for eight years we're in Oakland with Yahoo folks yes that was my reply she said I worked at Yahoo for eight years spoiler did that one lied yes I worked for failing nineties Internet brand are you impressed Oh gosh all my friends who are going to listen to this you guys know failing nineties Internet rendering take responsibility to change that image but that's people including me I said Oh snap in Sunnyvale because that's where the main offices she said Yes very ha I actually started in Boston and transferred out here worked between US and Sonny Bill so scroll through that conversation tell me at what point did you think I wanna meet her well honestly it was just the fact that we had the conversation like obviously I mean she's attractive so that's easy right like you WanNa meet someone who's attractive but then the conversation felt natural like we're just talking keep talking we have something in common like she worked at Yahoo I did too so we talked about jobs really early on. I tossed her my creative portfolio website. 'cause I don't know how this works at all but I figure like safeties probably a big issue for for women and WanNa be open and honest and upfront some kind of like here's like here's where I live here's what I do see almost vetting myself and so toss for my website which had this all my creative work from Yahoo on my rap career stuff which is a question that comes up also should probably get out of the way because it's very offensive comedy so like if that's not really your style I probably wouldn't get along you don't like South Park are always sunny in Philadelphia that kind of thing you probably would hate my music and that's okay but like you don't want to be stuck on a date with me so just like get that out of the way veteran date are already no I just I don't know I'm very into like radical honesty and just I dunno I figure like an empathy is like a really important quality to have so I figure that you know putting myself in other people's shoes it's I'm scared you know so they've got to be terrified and I'm this we're looking dude with like this weird background so our whole our whole first date at a peacekeeper was basically me like giving my red flags I know she already did interviews I'm sure she told you and I have a lot but it was interesting I think she's really like open minded person and it was really great for the first State because it made me less afraid to like be honest with people that like you know that stuff so you guys have a great conversation and then how did that become a date or think she actually like jewels pro for sure because she was like tossing digits like she like went to number and then once your tax thing that's like I don't want a little bit more intimate you know like a pretty quick to just like we should just meet and have drinks which I liked because I feel like I've had on all these APPs like conversations that just kind of fizzle out so it's good to get in person and see career connection right okay so then you guys set up a date did you recommend peace over scheepers I always want to say he's maker I don't know why you show up who's their I I was there for over across the street right now like I didn't want I didn't want her to show up even like five minutes early the and go through that weird thing of this guy showing whatever so ten minutes early in what was going through your mind as you're waiting for her I don't know living expectations honestly like I didn't think anything like since it was my first time on a date in twelve years I was kind of like this is different you know what I mean like I don't know I've been trying to like curb expectations or anything she shows up first impressions first impressions issued a big Grin so new should be like fun and talkative and excuse wearing the same robber that she's wearing and like three of her pictures just to give her some shit but I mean I dress like an eighth grade skater I do you like the Romper era for school so you weren't surprised by her wardrobe choice no actually you know what I appreciate it is clearly wearing something that she felt comfortable in that's I was kind of doing the same thing like I I didn't WanNa overdress these weird expectation that address it so I just kind of like backwards hat and jeans like how I would dress every day we were actually like a couple of us there wasn't any like weird Bayton switch like Oh yeah this guy like dresses Nice yeah that's the one thing I I have in my closet this nice did you already have a drink by the time she showed up to now or hadn't finished it yeah I ordered it it opened the tab and then like when she sat down I was like you can grab your drink it's on my tab that was another weird thing being hyper aware of sort of like her getting her own drink like seeing the bartender it kind of shit weird I don't know it's just like something I wanted to consider suddenly going and getting it and bringing it over because I don't know what that's like she doesn't I'm a string injure does she trust me I don't know I like the kind of autonomy being like this drink some but like you order it from Martin's put under my name and then she knows my first and last name that level of comfort I think is interesting but what want what made you want to do this had you heard horror stories seven okay absolutely absolutely family members ex-girlfriends like losing your extra sensitive to this yeah interesting okay so she gets her injuring you guys sit down how does the rest of the day go who's great I mean we We talked for about two hours of peacekeeper I think we had two or three drinks each it was interesting because wasn't like killing necessarily great like there wasn't like instant chemistry but we're having a good conversation so it was like we didn't WanNA stop talking it wasn't like this weird thing like Oh this offer me I'm out kind of thing but it wasn't this instant like Oh yeah this is totally it either but it was like oh like I think we're becoming friends which is exactly what I wanted and we wandered down the block to stickies for more cocktails which they have like these craft cocktails and bartenders it's like a I think it's called modern so it's like retro kind of they got the ax mustaches and they do the chicken the cocktail so we got a couple French seventy five's there's like a champagne cocktail yeah got got a little drunker and then she took an uber home if you did feel instant chemistry but you felt like the conversation's flowing what made you want to keep the date going only talking to her that's all I was there for you know what I mean like it wasn't I purposely I told her this to like left my place messy because then owned by people rose I see because I do live across the street so that'd be like of all the red flags introduced her the most in this person to across the street from where I live so it's like my places messy no matter how well we get along you're not coming over you know like like myself pre cock block when you guys were at the second bar wizard chemistry building were you still feeling the senate kind of friendship building I think we were just getting drunker I mean we did kiss the first night like but I think there's you know where did where did this kiss hathen Franken was on the bar you think that you don't think it was inside the bar yeah can you confirm that or you're just sitting at the bar and then there was a kiss outside the bar I'm pretty sure yeah one to ten how are you ten being nine okay to kiss took cases where they long kisses or they make us they were they weren't like Chevy Tahoe in mouth kind of thing they're kind of like kiss ause like look at each other 'cause Spas GonNa Jeff Holy Shit twelve years out of the dating game you go on a date with jools who you meet on hinge and you guys are kissing possibly kissing inside a bar and possibly drunk kissing outside the bar what's going through your mind at this point the first person you've kissed send your wife Suddenly True Oh i Guess I should have clarified okay is she so she's not the first person you've kissed since you and your wife separated she's what the second me keep tabs on the first date for sure okay that actually that's interesting because it a date kind of sets expectations for people whether or not they want him and so when we went on a second day I took her out this plug for Richard Cheese Really Funny Vegas Lounge ban they do like like Frank Sinatra style snoop dogg songs right so like Super Fun it was I thought it was good date but did you already have this event planned before meeting Juliet were yes I had two tickets and they were going to be for me and my ex imply interestingly enough as we grew apart like she she had seen Richard chooses new before like I hate this so I knew when I bought the tickets to probably have to go with a friend but I was like I really want to see this is the tickets when you are married way before like when they announced so these are on Tuesday and it was on Friday and like it went well enough and I didn't really have anyone I was interested in so it was like hey it was just go to this on Friday surely coolum into it let's go and that won't well to then we like like holding hands and stuff at the show and she kind of said like I don't know if you're ready to be dating yet and I actually think she might be right about that because it like just dating it felt like really jumping into being a couple or like I still do just like and I like Gills Lot I wanna be your friend and maybe we would be a couple but like already like being dressed nice it was my mistake like I was like this dress nice this is vegas lounge band is already like into romance before friendship and so like I don't think I really was ready for that but it was is like children's takes it as it comes and then the next week she's like hey drinks on Thursday I was like sure this summer birthday K.

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WANNA get drinks on Thursday she's like sure and then she's like actually like director sponsor actually let's just not do this anymore and I was like okay let's move that was a bad birthday but like not only from that was thank she did not no way she asked you out on when was your birthday aged for yeah so she asked you to go out on your birthday without knowing it's your birthday and then she reneged yes okay cut it off and other crazy things that happened that day my ex was like Oh if my birth control your place can I pick it up by the way happy birthday I was like wow that's birthday tax and it was like the only one I had that day so it happened first and then one of my really close friends is is going through some health issues and he had some emergency surgery pop up and I was up at the dog park with with Lola my friends uh-huh and he called to Sig and by Oh my God yeah so it was like he crying in the in the park like I will say out of all the dating APPs the Dog Park is the best one just like real person like meeting people with other dogs and like actually like talking to him and just like I don't know and so I had been in kind of like my most exciting prospect since been single has been this red haired girl Blue Eyes who don't know her name the dog park and I make sure to not I just talked to her a little bit like I don't want to be too invasive or obvious and so we just like Oh let it be what it is and she was there that day and I saw V crying and like picked dogging left and it was like this birthday birthday as for wow so she asks you to hang out on your birthday without knowing it's your birthday to be fair and then she reneged because she was like you're not ready to be dating and I think we should stop doing this so what is your response to that Amish is right I mean like I think that I think that we are friends she also was like we don't have to talk anymore to and I was like what do you what do you mean like nothing's different like we should still talk we can still become friends like I don't know it will be I don't know if she's attractive me for being a couple or probably don't even have enough similar interests from the first day and I was like I think I'm too wild for you you know like there's lakes stuff I do that I don't think is her cup of tea like let Move Webcam model what you are yeah what is I need you take off your clothes yeah online for other people for money ooh Ooh should you another episode that's about twice a week it's definitely just for fun but I would say almost make more money doing that than I did wrapping and then you work at Yahoo the working getting fired now dear co workers know this is what you do yeah because yeah tell people achim honest about it yeah uh-huh okay so you're a Webcam on what else what are the other crazy wild interest you have are pretty much done everything under the sun just like with people like one of my ex girlfriends was a prostitute on so that's that put me onto being super people 'cause super cool person she still is she that mom and happily married now so good for her but it was just heartbreaking to learn like after you already fell in love with someone you know because like and so that really hurt and I think you know to stay with her she said that in the first week even always just going to tell people my shit like upfront because the only thing that hurt was ally and that's what it always is so you're really upfront with her she's really up front with you you both decide that you're not ready to jump into a relationship do you feel like she wants to be in relationship I got the impression yeah I mean it's just I think that especially from dating at thirty eight now and like a lot of the women have been seeing her around wjr this fury to have kids like wild like I've actually had a girl be like just give me a kid like all signed papers like give the kid you can go do Your Own Thing and she's only thirty one and I'm like look my sister is thirty nine just how to Katie's healthy happy she didn't meet her husband's shoes thirty seven like youth time like don't rush into it so it's like if you wanna bone that's one thing whatever but like that general five you're getting from women online not even general by but just like outright like explicit we stated like I'm looking for this not from Jewish from from other people like Julie also given you those vibes I think julius definitely looking for a long term relationship why do you say that I guess it's just an assumption but I think from things feeling romantic upfront and I don't know maybe I'm totally wrong and maybe that's something I should communicate with but that's also why I was like I was like cool we'll field out more you know we'll see what she's about because like I think she she is probably correct that like I don't know about jumping right into another relationship but also like single got nothing to do with San Francisco I wanna go out have fun the people in that kind of thing so it's fun to go on dates I dunno it's a weird place to be and USC sort of like I don't want to dive into another marriage immediately you know I hope not if you to have established that you're not ready for relationship and you get the sense that she really wants a long term relationship then basically a sounds like your needs are not aligned but you still ask her remain friends so how do you picture this friendship working how does look doesn't need any expectations is just like whatever honestly whatever works for her been trying do my best about like my needs behind other people's needs especially like in The case with my ex like I get to live in our familiar condo that we built together with our dog and she's off Berkeley like finishing up school for the first time at the same age as I am I feel like she has so much more to be afraid it's so much more newer scared earlier that I've curbed any sort of pettiness that might be there and just like I would love to like don't call me don't talk to me right but like that's not how I can't be if I'm going to be and you know I have to be like if you're having a breakdown you call me and talk to me or like if you need money like I understand I have a little bit more than you're at now like all good and so like I wanna put other people's agendas and like needs ahead of mine doing the same thing with friendships and doing the same thing even with like co workers you know what I mean like it feels a lot better than Ping Sofa so by you saying that sounds like Julie would then have to dictate where this friendship goes rubbing more comfortable with that yeah as you carry on on this new phase in your relationship which a friendship Julie if that's what you're pursuing did you picture that you would texture every once in a while I do WanNa hang out or did you picture that if Julian wants to hang out she would reach out to you I don't think friendship is something that you have to set parameters around right like I just think it's like if I if I wake up on a Saturday morning if like texting our will or like anytime she hits me up I respond to a right like you don't pull that bullshit where you dislike oh we're not hooking up so we're not talking you know like you be a friend it's it's pretty easy right like you just act like this person's your friend and like you never know where friendships can go to my relationship with my ex started romantically immediately right like I met her one way shows which is not proud of and I asked her out and we want to date and I took her to nice restaurants was like off the cuff like man from the get-go and you to never built a friendship for us so then that friendship came later we're trying to do the opposite exerting friendship that could go somewhere but what if there's a scenario where you do build a friendship and she starts having deeper feelings for you that you may not be able to separate Kim friendship still keep up I mean I don't know if that would happen but like that would be something that would we'd have to address at the time and I I would like to think that if she had feelings for me in that way and we built this friendship that it would be reciprocal you know especially if all along the way we've been honest and upfront to each other right what do you think is you don't have to give me an answer right away but do you think that you are truly not ready to I wouldn't even say jump into a relationship to pursue a relationship because you're truly not ready or do you think it's just the chemistry is not their question because obviously like if there was firecracker can head you just say redhead from the dog park I mean I think think of truly not ready honestly because like for me I've had four long relationships is it like four people that I said I love you too and usually it takes me twice as long to process it than does the relationship and so if I dated or for appears to be over right obviously the other ones are shorter it was like high school six months college right a year and a half Affleck postcode you know so they were shorter so it's like it took me a year to get over the six months girl in high school etc but hopefully I mean with this one this last one it was kind of I thought I was ready to date because it was already kind of we're splitting apart interesting part sleeping facing the other way in the bed knowing pouring yourselves into each other connecting yeah what what you really need to be doing in a relationship and like when we parted it was great because we both were like you know what we learned this lesson of like makes those efforts towards each other like we decide who gave each other vows and it's like we actually should instead of like don't worry about you know like yourself like B are you a good partner right like if they do the same like you'll be good you know like it'd be golden we kind of what that full pardon is too bad but we're still we're still homing so it's okay all right I think I have F- enough material here to bring Julie back into the room and then we'll do a little regroup with both of you let me go get Julie breath back in the room reunited early should I say Calls Nick Jeff Calling You oh jeff and Jules there's actually okay so this is a really interesting conversation because I think from what I heard Julie's perspective was a lot more simple than Jeff's perspective oh I think what Julie thought was going on is actually just scratching the surface of what is happening the neath layers okay the commonalities are you both found each other attractive active on hinge the actually shared the conversation I I found a riveting at all Jesus Fuck Dude it was Kinda like we're in this conversation did you feel really compelled to meet Julie and Jeff said it was the fact that we were having this conversation with the subject matter it was the fact that this conversation didn't die it was snappy I think that's what it was it was like fast he really he was drawn to your profile because of your answer to the Halloween costume question but questioned why you didn't have the Saracho a constant picture if you have the words in your profile why not have a picture to show because he really likes that fumble algae's why didn't use it in your own profile out this is where it gets interesting I think jeff is actually very sensitive to the safety of women and online dating which probably comes from his ask like the women that he's known who've been in the sex industry women who probably have used a lot of online dating and of course you've heard from your friends so you know so this feeds into some things that were happening first of all he said he gave you his work portfolio and website not because he's trying to show you what he's done on but more like I'm a legit person and you can do a little background check on me Oh don't worry Ed stock you on my own but I think you actually like that was a good move on linked that's so smooth because like I feel like people don't think of that as a place to hide their identity you know that's very true smartly where she was drawn to was the fact that you had very creative side to you who in so it's nice that you have like this normal whatever like you have this Yahoo Job but also you have the scrape side which is you are former rapper and Julie loves rappers I know you were like this is a red flag like this is a high point yeah so then comes meeting up for the date and Jeff really believes in radical honesty and I think this again comes from background where maybe someone has was hiding information that was highly sensitive that came out later in the relationship that was hurtful so he felt the need give you all the red flags up front and something you talked about in your interview Julie was he gave me all the red flags and that's when I knew all your everything scary I don't think it's a bad thing though it's so fascinating about this is the old days of dating with the rules and everything there's date talk and then there's things you shouldn't be talking and your date like your pagination ships and religion and politics but jeff came in was like I'm GonNa give you everything that you should be worried about me that's about like to my colonoscopy I do appreciate that like I like conversations that are more real that aren't like surface level either and jeff appreciate the fact that you want to move the conversation offline you were the one of instigating and that was something you saw not many people do with online dating which is something we hear all this yeah most people just let those conversations die and he said she's a pro so the first impressions of each other are pretty much similar they're on par you found each other attractive you really liked each other's energy the openness that you both brought to the date he did notice that you were the same romper that you have in three of your photos so it must be like your favorite wine as I put it on such a word night but I thought actually goes suit thing was like I said I actually liked it because that's what you're comfortable and you know because I was like I dress like how uncomfortable I didn't like dress up and give you this idea that was like some dude that doesn't look like shit all the time he liked the fact that you know what you're comfortable and you know what you look good in and then you stuck with it but it is uh-huh she hasn't same romper and let it it's funny that you noticed the pictures to go up to the person like oh it's definitely her in this is where it gets mind-blowing okay so when I talked to Julie about the date she said this to me she said when I showed up he said I have a tab open go ahead and order your during and she thought that was a little bit out of the ordinary because normally a guy would say let me get you a drink and she thought okay I guess I'm getting my own drink on your tab of course but I'm going up to the bar to order it jeff brought up the same scenario without me prompting a he said Ed again going back to safety he said I wanted her to feel the autonomy of getting her own drink and seeing the bartender make that drink so that she feels that I'm not bringing the drink drink silica way to go a stranger that's true I it was like a bad thing in any way like I wouldn't say that that was like yeah I guess it was different than other dates I've been on but it didn't like it wasn't negative right so acetate went on as you guys are getting drunker and drunker this is also where you to have some common feelings about each other Jeff said there wasn't in instant chemistry but definitely a friendship was developing and Julie kind of said the same thing like the conversation was definitely flowing I still wanted to be on the state with him and be in his company I was assured he's going to be my person if felt good to be in each other's company so that's great so you guys went to a second bar where maybe things got a little bit messy both of you said I think we kissed at the powerful exactly words I think there was his at the bar but there was definitely outside so that's a definitive there please share and the other one's a fifty fifty by this point he had already decided take you on this date the second date right which happened a few days later and so for this event Jeff already had two tickets that he had bought when he you still with us X.

00:54:31 - 01:01:23

I wondered if that was the case I can this is an event that she probably would have never thought about going to as she was so happy to go because it was so such a unique experience also a great excuse to get dressed up which is something a lot of San Franciscans Oh have the opportunity to do fun so she had a really good time but definitely was like a random event for a date but a really good date she thought everything went well and he said then we start holding hands and to show affection and I think that you didn't save these exact words but I think that's when it started giving you red flags romance is starting to develop going in that direction cure cracked a say red flags like I think it was on the they were Jill's actually like are you sure he's going to be the next I'm sure are you sure you're ready today and I was like yeah because like I had been so removed in distant from my ex anyways like I felt like of course immediately I'm reading today and then it was like when we were holding hands in the second I was like wait this is like instant romance and like I'm not sure already not right flight but the back story of this is that he and his ex started romantic I and jumped straight into romance and the friendship developed later so I think Jeff's philosophy now is let's develop a strong friendship before we jump into romance right explains why you have the comments that you did exactly but this is I find this quite unfortunate okay so I think from Julius perspective she was Kinda like I need to protect myself if I'm dating someone that seems really awesome I really click with but he's not ready he's not the same places me why do I keep this going so she was like conflicted and debating weather she should keep seeing you or not a some really awesome and that's fun yeah according to Jaffee had asked to hang out on a date right and then you instantly reneged and said let's not do this yet did realize I could actually do it so that part was true but I did get second thoughts on the whole thing like two minutes it was like it was a shoe changes you want to go out on Thursdays and then you're like no it's just not do this anymore text messages now holiest money I wanNA say like saying yet perspective is you asked him to hang out on third date on Thurs jazz Wednesday because we had an event Thursday definitely on Tuesday and instantly took it back and said I can't do this saying within five minutes they say second thoughts but definitely not that quickly so what happened was thinking about my week and brought to you by your week and it just seemed like both we're kinda crazy something I could do Wednesday that was like my thought process and then we have this read this event on Thursday that was like address event and I was like running through my mind like Oh should I go get a bunch of stuff in like seeing what I had on my plate that was part of why I reneged but then also what I was gang I was thinking of just a stalling finding the chain here okay so I messaged you five o'clock I said I'd be down to squeeze in meeting out for a drink tomorrow if you're down league edith need to do one thing right afterward you said maybe can we call it last minute that was like five ish we wrap this and then we're like really I'm considering getting a drink because of my tattoo healing anyways we left it that you were going to check in so then five thirty nine so like a half an hour later half way way way way way wait there's more to it right like I feel like when we made plans boom boom boom like what's what happened thirty three what in thirty actually no I suggested Wednesday but I realized I have to do shopping thing for Thursday some may not be realistic we're changed the Thursday and then you're like never mind having never change to Thursday I have a vet with her on Thursday maybe that's my best said well I'll be hawking so you can join but it I was writing this is your name it's so weird to see your own tax there's you know what is really cute here okay so I was saying I can't make Wednesday here is basically suggesting Thursday then at the same time I was sending the text Thursday was his birthday Tuesday when we were talking Oh oh you were talking on your birthday we'll taxing you were saying her she was making plans on your birthday okay so little did you know you were talking on the day of his birthday earlier that day has act had called to Common Cup berth contracted it was low birthday texture it was like hey happy birthday pick up my birth control from the place is like and also sweet his phone call from correct so worst birthday ever I'm sorry but it also shows that you never know where you're catching people right yes you don't really tell I mean there's no there's no you weren't going to be like hey jules it's my birthday today but also like Julie probably thought was any the regular day and we're just trying to make plans and you're writing a message is he's writing a message and the message has seemed like you were one right after another yeah they were basically around the city times within five minutes well we're gambling here technically right but because we're referring to do different uh-huh okay what's what's going on is Jedi had like the birthday already did not start out very well and I think in your memory this tax added to a bad birthday memory I winston bad I actually like to me it's funny it's like all that you know what I mean like I never pictured at thirty eight it'd be divorced and all those things like and honestly it's like a toll juuling my biggest red flag was my friend Amol because it's like that dude's been my best friend since one thousand nine hundred ninety five and you got this call one yet dog park right and there's girl that he is a he's attracted to the dog park he seen and she was there that day and he was crying because of the news and picked up her dog in that so another landing salt to injury.

01:01:23 - 01:07:22

Yeah you told me that 'cause we're talking after you said like I wanna stay friends then you were like to a- We're talking then I just got this call and I remember being like why did I let you go on the boat this happening it's all good I felt bad about that so I think where we can leave off is the fact that Jeff really feels like he's an exploratory in his life right let's explore where where this friendship goes let's see feelings developer Lexi who we meet I meet and everything super brand new you and your way when it comes to dating so it's kind of exciting but scary at the same time and also you're just not trying to commit to a feeling like I I wanNA commit to the fact that I'm looking for a girlfriend that's not that's not what you're looking for it's like I just WanNa explore what my feelings are actually I think it's dating like I don't want to be dating want to hang out with people like this is hell like I could sit here drink the all night like play cards whatever I think I just WanNa be social with people and not have that weird box of like this is a date there's pressure in a relationship now because how do you even really get to know someone that way totally and then he definitely felt like you Julie that you're looking for a long term relationship even though you may not have explicitly said that he definitely felt that was a vibe you're giving because you wanted more romance upfront Orlean or more romantic upfront and that's kind of the vibe you're putting off so in the end my question was is it the timing or is it the person right and it's in this this case it's very obvious that it's mostly the timing jeff also felt like maybe youtube do not have enough similar interests he he's he said to you you that he's a little wild for you and he went in to feel like you were saying well we have a really good time but I think maybe romantically a relationship wise maybe I'm just like orman right and Julie's also raised concerns like but maybe he's just not my person for that long term but I really enjoy hanging out with them so there's like that any aspect where the conundrum is where do you go from here and I asked Jeff what does this friendship look like wait before you go into that I was trying to understand like why is resistant to dislike staying friends like I think like everything you said made total sense why would you just jump into early ship with somebody you've met like a couple times is right I wasn't looking at it that way either but with dating apps to she's like there's some reason why that's expected to like beyond that course but I think just like why I was a little resistant to dislike I think where you are right this minute is because I've had a few relationships that didn't end up working out and it was because the men were not in the right place and like they weren't ready for like what I was ready for so I think I was bringing that into this and that's obviously not fair to you but that's where I think my head space is coming from that like I'm at a point that I'm like a little resistant of going into deep with someone that I feel like is in full Leeann or fully ready that makes total sense person it just didn't work because I was not ready you know just like it's like the sex is whack and like it was like everything was just like I was like distant and it was the timing and like super regret that it'd be like a super hate that we met like timing is a lot share a lot that's why it's like man if I didn't dive into that relationship with her and we had just been friends and then I waited out that period where I'm like basically grieving process and I don't even know and then we dated who knows right and then you something interesting is a Youth Inc from your previous experience it takes you twice as long of the relationship to get over it to process it I think that I'm learning something about the way I communicate with in a relationship because like a relationship we didn't really tell each other what we want what we like operated as a unit doing that and so that's like one of those weird things too like if you dive right into romance then you don't know how y'all act you know in that kind of scenario where you're like raising kids quote unquote and then we went into this conversation about the friendship and I think for me I like parameters I like rules I like barriers he wants to hang out or do you contact her when you WanNa hang out